Old 7th November 2012, 05:42   #1
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4 More Years!!!

The 2012 American elections are over. Control of the White House and Congress (Senate and House) has not changed.

Will the Congress now compromise and work for American progress?

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Old 7th November 2012, 07:20   #2
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Old 7th November 2012, 14:16   #3
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Old 7th November 2012, 17:10   #4
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Will the Congress now compromise and work for American progress?
We could start with the recession we just voted for. A recession is now unavoidable. Insolvency of the US government is likely. Obama is headed for what CNN calls a "fiscal cliff". If I was the Republicans I wouldn't help.... I'd toss banana peels...

Remember that movie... the Last Emperor? I think 30 years from now, they'll be making one called "The Last Democrat".
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Old 7th November 2012, 18:11   #5
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yay! 3.5 years without your pointless left vs right bitching.

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Old 7th November 2012, 18:33   #6
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If I was the Republicans I wouldn't help.... I'd toss banana peels...
I'm relatively new to these forums, so don't know if you have stated it before. Unless you rather not say, what organized political group do you associate yourself with? I'm independent, but mostly vote for Democrats. Far left and far right both have stupid points of view, imo. Inviting more economic trouble to prove a point is beyond stupid. The terms insane and reckless, come to mind.

You are feeling squeezed. I get that. But you are still able to post in these forums, so, on balance, things could get a lot worst for you. Do you really want that?

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Old 7th November 2012, 18:37   #7
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yay! 3.5 years without your pointless left vs right bitching.
it'll just be 3 years bitching about who got in and how they're rubbish and whoever it was should have gotten in or why the 'right' person got in and all that kerfuffle (not forgetting complaining about the voting system and how it's not just and true and all that). and then it's back to a year on who will get in and why they should and why they shouldn't ad nausea. and what $2billion+ on whatever it is that goes into a political campaign (i mean really why spend (or rather waste) that much money when everyone's going on about debt and recessions and all that - is just crazy!

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Old 7th November 2012, 18:39   #8
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Cage fight to the death. People like that and it gets rid of a politician.

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Old 7th November 2012, 18:46   #9
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it'll just be 3 years bitching about who got in and how they're rubbish and whoever it was should have gotten in or why the 'right' person got in and all that kerfuffle (not forgetting complaining about the voting system and how it's not just and true and all that). and then it's back to a year on who will get in and why they should and why they shouldn't ad nausea. and what $2billion+ on whatever it is that goes into a political campaign (i mean really why spend (or rather waste) that much money when everyone's going on about debt and recessions and all that - is just crazy!

-daz

Just talk is no problem, people will always bitch about something. But, a world wide economic collapse would not be fun. I guess you believe that can not happen and was not eminent in 2009. If so, I hope you're right.

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Old 7th November 2012, 18:58   #10
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i know the people will bitch about things and i think we've already had (and probably are still deemed as in the progress of) an economic collapse - and having been made redundant due to the effects of it in 2009 i am fully aware of how things can pan out.

my point is that the impression which comes across is that you have to spend $$$ just because its an election and that's what you do and it's being spent to do what? convince an apathetic public who are either a) set in their ways and never change, b) just don't care as they're going to get screwed over whoever is in change (since politics is generally about the politician getting things out of it than the other way around) and c) those that do care get screwed over since yes a vote counts but my understanding is that it doesn't count the same depending where you are which just makes a mockery out of things (just reminds me of the 'rotten boroughs we had in the UK a few centuries back - and a most comical episode from Blackadder II ).

bleh, politics just pisses me off as you think you're doing good by voting and all that and it just doesn't matter if you do or don't.

-daz
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Old 7th November 2012, 19:47   #11
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One day the Republicans are going to wake up and realise they've been outbred all these years. Appealing to what has become a minority voter base(however priviledged) won't work anymore.

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Old 7th November 2012, 19:58   #12
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my point is that the impression which comes across is that you have to spend $$$ just because its an election and that's what you do and it's being spent to do what? convince an apathetic public who are either a) set in their ways and never change, b) just don't care as they're going to get screwed over whoever is in change (since politics is generally about the politician getting things out of it than the other way around) and c) those that do care get screwed over since yes a vote counts but my understanding is that it doesn't count the same depending where you are which just makes a mockery out of things (just reminds me of the 'rotten boroughs we had in the UK a few centuries back - and a most comical episode from Blackadder II ).
Yes, the great American system is a joke in so many ways. An insane amount was spent by all involved. Mass media distribution companies (and their execs) made out like bandits. I would laugh if it wasn't so serious. Most eligible voters do not vote. That may be a good thing, if most of those who do vote really care. I believe the tone and nuisance of the laws that are passed, how public money is appropriated, and who gets to sit on our Supreme Court are greatly affected by who wins elections here and how they win them. Sure the bureaucracies will keep the major thrusts about the same for most things, but it's the little things (tone and nuisance), over time, that nudge the direction we are moving in as a country.

Like it or not, for the foreseeable future, how America goes will greatly affect the rest of the world for good or ill. England had control for a very long time. Now it is America. No one knows what will come next or when, but something will (if the planet survives). Maybe recorded history is a lie, but it is filled with examples of small, organized groups setting the direction for vast numbers of people.

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Old 7th November 2012, 20:19   #13
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am not discrediting the importance of the US economy on things (it was obviously the main catalyst with the "credit-crunch" and crap that followed on from it).

but US is not the sole key player in my view anymore (especially not in this multi-national and generally bordless world we're in now) and it's the rising of China and India where the power is undoubtedly shifting towards. yes the US will likely stay around the top (just being as large as it is will ensure that) but things are going to change as that's just how it goes e.g. rise and fall of most empires be it Roman, British, Ottoman, etc there's a zenith and then someone else takes over.

as for when i wouldn't say but the rise of those two economies in the last 50 years and more noticeably in the last 20 years, so how things will be in another 20 years who can say.

-daz
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Old 7th November 2012, 20:31   #14
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One day the Republicans are going to wake up and realise they've been outbred all these years. Appealing to what has become a minority voter base(however priviledged) won't work anymore.

UJ
Some of them have. Why do you think their top 5% are building as much family wealth as possible and gated communities with private security, while hedging their bets with off shore holdings. With plenty money and power, they will personally be alright no matter what happens politically.

Why did Romney really run for President this time and had been running? What were and are his real interests? Maybe jealousy and envy of the old established families, since his is among the new kids on the block. He made it clear that he was not interested in the at least 47% of Americans he figures are lost causes.

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Old 7th November 2012, 20:49   #15
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but US is not the sole key player in my view anymore (especially not in this multi-national and generally bordless world we're in now) and it's the rising of China and India where the power is undoubtedly shifting towards. yes the US will likely stay around the top (just being as large as it is will ensure that) but things are going to change as that's just how it goes e.g. rise and fall of most empires be it Roman, British, Ottoman, etc there's a zenith and then someone else takes over.
Yes, but no world power has gone away quietly. Until and unless things change, America still has the edge on super destructive firepower and the means to deliver it anywhere. Don't ever make the mistake of believing it would never be used, no matter who is in the White House. Violence is as American as Chevrolet and apple pie. When it comes down to it, the current Tea Party folks are not the only ones who would want it their way or no way.

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Old 7th November 2012, 23:46   #16
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whoa there, did you just go where i think you did with that comment???
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Old 8th November 2012, 04:14   #17
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whoa there, did you just go where i think you did with that comment???
Just keeping it real. I was born and have lived here for over 60 years. Studied at MIT and worked for the military most of my adult life. I knew some of the folks who were at the Pentagon, NSA, and CIA. I've had some high clearances but, being a civilian, never got very close to really sensitive stuff. Good for me. Many believed a global nuclear first strike and smaller surgical strikes could be successful. Insane, but true. You would not believe some of the projects I've worked on. I could be wrong, but I don't believe that attitude has changed much in recent years.

I've studied the history of my country. Our manifest destiny for the North America continent and what was done to achieve it. What other country has actually used the atom bomb on people, twice? MAD was a real policy during the cold war with the USSR. Star Wars was (is?) a serious effort also.

As a Black American, I'm mostly very proud of my country and our current professed sense of honor and morality, but I'm not at all naive about what our current military complex is capable of and could be authorized to do overtly and covertly. That said, no more Dooms Day talk from me. Those who say don't know and those who know don't say.

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Old 8th November 2012, 19:58   #18
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Yes, but no world power has gone away quietly.
What in the hell would we want the United States to go away for? God Damn America? Do you really personally feel that way about it? I figured you were like most of us normal American goofs that watched football and drank beer.

If you thought that, why did you vote for the "Military Industrial Complex" instead of the guys that wanted smaller government? You oughta be wearing a Ron Paul shirt and be out with the Tea Party.

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what our current military complex is capable of and could be authorized to do overtly and covertly
Every nation in the world has spooky services so we have to have our own. That's a problem sometimes. As far as I can tell, it doesn't seem to have ended civilization.

You've really gotta spin most stuff to make the post WWII United States into some kind of malevolent monster. Look at what happened where we nasty imperialist fucks won and what happened to the people where we lost.

We propped up some capitalist stooges. But damn, the commie stooges were a shit load meaner. Liberals like to suggest some dichotomy about Fidel Castro, but the son of a bitch is a butcher. Lose the evil Shah, who perhaps killed a few thousand people... to be replaced by the Ayatollah who killed hundreds of thousands. Lose Czar Nicolas, who killed a few dozen peasants, screwed up a war... to be replaced with Lenin and Stalin who murdered a couple hundred million.

Standing there, like a nun with a ruler, is America. We ended a 1000 year European war. We stopped an evil regime that controlled half the world. And at least this time you'd agree with me. Your vote counts.

How do you beat that? You just don't get that everywhere. Just about nowhere if you're African. My ancestors didn't get to vote until they got to America either, so join the club. My Polish ancestors kin.... Hitler killed em all... but any that possibly survived didn't vote until the 90's.

We vote. We have some semblance of having civil rights. Americans are cool. I like Americans. Spooks too. I've met some special forces ... spooky.. types... usually they are pretty squared away... I can't see them going off mission for anything. Feds are the same way. They really don't have much in the way of skulduggery. If it's screwed up, it's Congress or the President.

God Bless America. God Bless President Obama.

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Old 9th November 2012, 15:44   #19
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I figured you were like most of us normal American goofs that watched football and drank beer.
I do my share of goofing off. But no, I'm not like most.

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If you thought that, why did you vote for the "Military Industrial Complex" instead of the guys that wanted smaller government? You oughta be wearing a Ron Paul shirt and be out with the Tea Party.
I'm not afraid of the Military Industrial Complex. It is why America was first getting men walking on the moon. It is why we have the computers we have today. It is why the average American life style is the envy of the world. I was paid well for my work for the military. It put my 2 daughters through college.

But, I also believe the Military Industrial Complex should be strongly regulated.

The American military is the best in the world and has the best equipment. Obama wants to keep it that way, just as mean or meaner, but a little leaner. Romney wanted to make it bigger.

Why would I want to support Ron Paul? You can't put the worms back in the can. It's way too late to return to the Gold Standard, break up the Federal Reserve System, leave the rest of the world to it's own pursuits, and return to a kinder gentler time that never existed.

Why would I want to be out with the Tea Party? Why give up the things most Americans take for granted? Things that can not exist without collecting and pooling public money. As long as the cost of everything keeps going up, taxes will too. The workers need to be paid more and the execs less. But when you consider so called 'real value' and inflation, its all just a paper chase anyway.

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As far as I can tell, it doesn't seem to have ended civilization.
What civilization? Are we civil? Every world power in recorded history has maintained its place, as long as it could, with violence and brutality. The ends justify the means. Anything goes, as long as its done to the outsiders and its held up as being good for the insiders. Sooner or later, the violence and brutality creeps inside too, in the name of order and security.

I believe that's why no world power has lasted. People have limits to how much abuse they will tolerate. Outside or within the major nation, those in control can only kick around everyone else for a while, until the masses get fed up and turn on powers that be.

Our tribes are bigger, we dress better, and we have legal ways to attack each other, but make no mistake the world is still one big jungle and the savage still lives in all of us. Don't believe it? Wait for the Black Friday sales in the USA in a few weeks, there will be plenty of examples.

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Old 11th November 2012, 16:37   #20
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"The other side won, so I'm going to be a masochist just to prove they hurt me or an active sadist to show they're hurting themselves."

That just screams "asshole" to me. That's the childish temper tantrum pouting of a sore loser. Such rhetoric hurts everyone and serves no good at all.

Regardless of who's side won, we need to continue working towards what helps us, not what hurts us.

As DrO says, our presidential voting system is no good. Perhaps at one time, the electoral college was good, but it serves no good purpose anymore. On the other hand, the winning candidate won both the Electoral vote and the popular vote, so it's a moot point anyway.

Please also understand what I've been saying all along... your vote for president is nowhere near as influential as your choice in where you spend money. That's where the real vote is. That's also a vote you make almost every day, so if you're upset with the election, it's almost nonsensical to say you have to wait 4 years to "vote" again. Vote with your money: give to those who earn it and then financially starve those that don't deserve it.

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Old 12th November 2012, 10:52   #21
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All good points, swingdjted.

Also the comment you made elsewhere about there are jobs for those willing and able to relocate and/or retrain.

Some people just like to bitch and moan and blame someone else, instead of making the effort to take advantage of what is available. In America, life IS what you make it.

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Old 12th November 2012, 15:49   #22
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Thank you, I just get overly upset sometimes, because people could spend their complaining and blaming energy on finding a better life for themselves. I actually have had to move across the country for jobs a few times after having spent a lot of time creating application packets, paying for and passing tests to get licensed in multiple states, and uprooting/moving everything in an effort to help my family out. PA>OH>SD>IA>WV so far during my working adult life. Sometimes a layoff will ruin your local life. No need to make that permanent by staying local. Some animals are migratory and nomadic in nature, and I guess that's how it needs to be for some humans too.

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Old 12th November 2012, 18:04   #23
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PA>OH>SD>IA>WV so far during my working adult life.
MD>MA>VA>NY>IL so far for me. Many people never move more than 5 miles from where they were born.

It's not easy to uproot, especially if you have school age children. But the adjustment periods have never been very long and I've enjoyed getting to know different parts of the country and making new friends. I think it has made me a better person.

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Old 12th November 2012, 22:25   #24
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It certainly brings more understanding on both ends when you have to go to a new place and look them in the face when discussing something.

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Old 14th November 2012, 19:59   #25
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I always thought... no matter where you go... there you are... People are basically the same everywhere, and usually a decent sort. In groups we have a problem. Some places people even have the cockeyed idea that government should be involved in social engineering.

If you wanted to like feed the hungry, or educate the poor or whatever, that would fine be fine by me.

We could skip the social engineering. Everything government does comes with strings. Ted can be a teacher if he's quiet about his own beliefs. You can get a public education if you agree with old craggy liberals at the DOE. For lunch, you'll be expected to vote for gay marriage, womens right to abort men until the 300th trimester, and shove a battery up your ass to drive a car.

We're crashed from the social engineering of selling people who couldn't afford it houses and in the mean time made housing less affordable. Even with housing in the toilet, housing is a larger percentage of income than it ever was, and rents are up. Demand for rentals is high because people have been kicked out. When Bill Clinton and Hillary came up with this cockeyed idea to help the poor, they smoked the poor. The poor are gonna stay smoked for years.

Lest I be accused of thought crime, I'll stop there.

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Obama wants to keep it that way (the military industrial complex)
Yes. Obama very much likes the military industrial complex.

He signed Patriot II! Obama is a suit just like George Bush. Not wanting any of his unconstitutional actions to be questioned, we fixed the law to make what George Bush did perfectly legal and accepted Obama's assurance that he's "gonna keep an eye on it".

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Old 14th November 2012, 21:39   #26
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I don't support the wiretapping and many parts of the patriot act. I do support holding without trial in some cases, because sometimes not holding can be a dangerous risk.

As school counselor, I am basically a social engineer, and I think that the content I deliver is very important. I believe that ethics, problem solving and coping skills, diversity and tolerance, anger management, manners, hygene, leadership techniques, collaboratiave teamwork, and other social skills are very important. I teach a lot more than that when it comes to individual personal, academic, and planning issues, but the social skills are a major part of what I do. I think people need that kind of stuff to be able to be a contributing member of the local, national, and global communities that we all live in.

Being quiet about my own beliefs is indeed very difficult. I have to present differing options in a way that does not show bias. I teach students to make choices based on a careful examination of past precedent and potential future outcomes, both short and long term. There's obviously a lot more details involved, but that's just an overview.

It's true that when in groups we cause the biggest problems, but on the flipside, when in groups we cause the biggest advancements too. I think the latter outweighs the former. Teaching the dynamics of herd or mob mentality helps. Sometimes standing together is wonderful, sometimes it's horrible.

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Old 14th November 2012, 21:51   #27
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But you are the herd. Most of the kids coming out of school... I say Obama... they say Moo..

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coping skills, diversity and tolerance, anger management, manners, hygene, leadership techniques, collaboratiave teamwork, and other social skills are very important
You say. I think that sort of training is a bunch of psychobabble crap. It just makes a bunch of passive aggressive pussies. And passive aggressive pussies really give me an anger management problem.

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Old 14th November 2012, 23:02   #28
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Enjoy a jail sentence and a single lonely life then.

Advocating violence isn't caring. That's just becoming what you yourself hate, unless you plan on enjoying or benefiting from receiving it. That's where people go when they don't figure out social skills. Shouting doesn't make someone right if they're wrong and it also doesn't make anyone any more right if they're already right. If anything it reduces credibility and demonstrates a weakness in terms of a lack of self control. Don't get me wrong, I still teach assertiveness skills, but in a way that will make people listen, not "duck".

Take it to the next level and get killed at war.

Take it to a lower level and never get shit accomplished because you couldn't work together.

Counterproductivity in the name of pride won't get you far. However, what I teach does get students very far. In most cases, further than me, despite the fact that they started in a place that originally looked pretty hopeless, where I honestly did feel a little sorry for them. That was temporary though. Now I'm proud of them. Like I said, I teach decision making based on evidence: outcomes. The outcomes of that sort of education mostly translate to success and peace. The outcome of violence is hatred, blame, loneliness, and often a stunted career.

You mention high school. I broke school records every year I was a high school counselor for scholarship dollars awarded, student college credits earned while in high school, and average ACT scores, plus maintaining the school's 100% graduation rate, despite the school being in a Title I recognized poverty-stricken district. That does not come from what you describe. Now that I'm in middle school due to a relocation, I have reduced the occurance of physical fights to nearly nothing (4 actually) after having dozens by this time last year, up to 3 in one day, and guess what? Benchmark scores in all 4 evaluated areas are up as a result of students not being distracted by all the drama. They know how to handle it quickly and peacefully so that they can prioritize their thought processes to something that will actually get them somewhere.

I think you and I have a different view of what bullshit is. I view bullshit as something that ends up causing someone to waste time and energy on something that has minimal favorable short-term outcomes at best. You view bullshit as something that ends up making someone swallow their pride and take a step back so that they can later take two steps forward.

If what you're saying is successful for you, fine, but I'd like to see data-driven evidence as to how it will in any way help my students before I try it with them.

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Old 15th November 2012, 02:02   #29
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Force can achieve resolutions, but they don't last. Not a good idea to turn your back on someone that you've made do something that he/she really did not want to do.

Reason leads to lasting resolutions.

1 good thing about rockouthippie is that he stands by his beliefs, no matter that some of them belong to a different time, imo. He reminds me of the Archie Bunker character from the old TV show. However, it's not funny when you're talking about real life.

I agree with most of what swingdjted has said. Even if some of what he teaches his students may be psychobabble, if it leads to reason then it can't be all bad.

For the foreseeable future, we all have to live on this one planet. We need to focus on what uplifts us, not what divides us. So easy to say, why is it so hard to do?

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Old 15th November 2012, 04:47   #30
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I've been called a bigot by whores, thieves, gang members and various other assorted douche bags, but I don't get mad.

I know my white man oppression wavelength can oppress liberal victims at hundreds of yards. It's all my fault.

I got heavy duty on a kid Ted. If left her to your professionals (Plan B) she'd be turning tricks with a needle sticking out of her arm like her friend Becky, who didn't know who her Obama voting liberal daddy was. I think daddy gets to be a hard ass if he needs to be. And I think social workers should shut the fuck up as long as there is progress in attitude. I felt diluted, not reinforced by teachers. I almost lost.

Is the big guy a bully or is the little guy an irritant with small mans syndrome? I've been accused of bigotry by thieves and sluts. After all, I'm the oppressor and I deserve to be ripped off, cheated on and lied to. But don't get mad... You might hurt the little whores feelings. And then they can count on some more human flotsam as a cheering section.

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Old 15th November 2012, 06:27   #31
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Is the big guy a bully or is the little guy an irritant with small mans syndrome? I've been accused of bigotry by thieves and sluts. After all, I'm the oppressor and I deserve to be ripped off, cheated on and lied to. But don't get mad... You might hurt the little whores feelings. And then they can count on some more human flotsam as a cheering section.
It could be both, one a bully and the other an irritant.

You are quick to label people and things and put them in one camp or another. It is seldom that simple. I'm often misunderstood, but that is partly my fault (which I usually don't understand till later). I try to base my decisions on facts, but sometimes I don't have enough facts to reach the right conclusion. Then there is the inconvenient truth that what is right for me, may not be right for the other guy. I'm biased against those who give me reasons to be, but I try not to make judgements just based on what I see or on second hand hearsay. Bias without a real personal reason is just stupid bigotry, imo.

Nobody deserves to be ripped off, cheated on, or lied to; even thieves, cheaters, and liars. That just keeps that ball rolling. It is unfortunate that you seem to be surrounded by low-lifes. Maybe you should change your neighborhood.

People should always be alert and ready and willing to defend themselves. As I've stated before, violence has its place. But it should be a last resort. There can be a thin line between being cautious and being paranoid. It is sad and dangerous that some people think they need to attack first because they think they are going to be attacked.

My motto is live and let live, until you try to do something to me. Then its all bets off and let God sort it out. Just kidding,___ a little.

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Old 15th November 2012, 06:39   #32
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. It is unfortunate that you seem to be surrounded by low-lifes. Maybe you should change your neighborhood.
Yeah.... you live some place because it's relatively cheap. It's a pretty decent little house and BB is enough of a watch dog.

And like I say most people are good. I've just had a hell of a lot of people use political correctness to try to shift blame on to me for being a bigot, when it was shit they did.

Like the act of God it took to fire a black gal I caught stealing. The white gal was gone when I said it. 3 weeks with human resources who investigated me!

And I've sported a black eye from woman who told the whole town how .. I abused her... It didn't stick because people know I am a good guy, but it still pissed me off.

Most of the men I see around are just pussy whipped. At 50, I'm asking a bunch of my fellow poor bastards why they don't get a divorce. Too broke! Naggy and nasty seems to have become a civil right as well.
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Old 15th November 2012, 06:52   #33
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I always thought... no matter where you go... there you are...
True, if you let it be. If you have closed yourself off to trying to see things a different way or not being open to changing your point of view.

I spent a quite few years like that and it only lead to more trouble. I'm glad I changed and I still don't bend over for anybody. I just don't rise to every challenge. Some things are important and some aren't. Sometimes its better for all concerned to just walk away.

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Old 15th November 2012, 07:02   #34
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We really should give Obama all our money. We just have one big ol Mazola party and sing Kum-by-ya and have some government cheese. We could drag out some old craggy liberals and have a hate fest about intolerant people.

Which basically, if you don't agree with them dipped in KY, you're intolerant. If you think Obama isn't the greatest President ever, you're a bigot. And don't piss off women, only 3 of them looked good without a bra. That would be Charlies Angels.

Among the tenets of this liberal crap is that every is a white man fault. We just run around oppressing everybody all the time. It's a full time job.

If I could how to oppress some African American or a woman right now, you can bet I'd be doing it. I just live to oppress people. Yep... On my way back from OMG! Church... I go to church. I must be some kind of deviant, wife beating Neo-Nazi from Archie Bunkers neighborhood.

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Old 15th November 2012, 11:09   #35
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rockouthippie, I wanted to let you have the last word but I have one more question.

Did you write material for Andrew Dice Clay, back in the day? Some of that stuff was funny. Your stuff now is becoming a waste of time to read.

Live long and prosper.

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Old 16th November 2012, 20:11   #36
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That's usually what liberals do when they can't make a rational argument for the nanny state. I know. I'm supposed to take being called a bigot because of some mythical white mans guilt, but no dice. None of my kin ever did any dirt to anybody. I don't do dirt to anybody.

When you can't call me a bigot. Did you have another argument to tell me why we should hire liberal elites to pretend to help poor people?

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Old 16th November 2012, 21:31   #37
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There's no pretending about it. Everything I listed was evidence and outcome based.

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Old 16th November 2012, 21:36   #38
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How about those outcomes Ted? I'm not impressed with the quality of workers you stuck in front of my desk with a high school diploma.

You should remember, I went to a Jesuit High School which didn't spend half what a public school spends on a student. I got to add a full grade point for college accreditation. So.. my 3.4 became a 4.0 for talking to a college.

You cost twice as much as my private schools and your outcomes aren't even close. But I must be a bigot or ignorant or something to point that out.

I didn't get all that horseshit about tolerance and leadership and all that other whiney liberal bullshit. What I got was a competent education.

I'm pretty pissed about my daughter in public schools. It's almost like they were trying to get her in trouble with all the softening phrases they taught her to describe bad conduct. I'm somebody who doesn't think right and wrong are graded on the sliding scale. We've got classes to consider ethics, but the measure of those ethics slips around in a buffer of political correctness. I considered her ethics training as a course in relativism and tolerance training as a license to steal.

See.. I thought that a 13 year old girl having sex was clearly wrong. But I guess not. It must be that narrow minded Archie Bunker bigot thing I have going. You'll have to excuse my lack of a liberal ethics course.

I think we all know what right and wrong is. It doesn't need a class unless you are trying to whitewash something.

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Old 17th November 2012, 15:32   #39
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See.. I thought that a 13 year old girl having sex was clearly wrong. But I guess not. It must be that narrow minded Archie Bunker bigot thing I have going. You'll have to excuse my lack of a liberal ethics course.

I think we all know what right and wrong is. It doesn't need a class unless you are trying to whitewash something.
There are few absolutes, its mostly all relative. It depends on your culture and community values and laws. Most, but not all, in the US would now agree that 13 is too young for having sex. In some parts of the world girls get married at that age. Maybe it has to do with those peoples' life expectancy or something. Even in the US, it wasn't all that long ago that life expectancy was much less than it is now and people got married and started families in their early teens.

Some Mormons say it ok for a man to have as many wives as he can support. Others say that's bigamy.

Like intellectual property rights in China. Many of them think its a compliment to you to copy your stuff, not stealing.

A bigot is narrow minded, but narrow mindedness does not have to be bigotry.

We all do not know what is right and wrong for everybody. It's not that easy. Tolerance can be taken too far, but is intolerance the answer to that problem? Lines need to be drawn, but is it always easy to know where to draw them?

Or is this post just more liberal BS?

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Old 17th November 2012, 20:03   #40
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Or is this post just more liberal BS?
Yes. It is. The purpose of examining morality in this way is to undermine it. It's how you rationalize doing something immoral. Relativism... I am not as immoral as... Softening.... aw that's not so bad.... Tolerance... we must put up with douche bags and tell them that being fucked up is perfectly fine... or normal... or not as bad as.... those evil conservatives that raise their kids and go to church and never ask anyone for anything.

I don't have any big need to punish people for being immoral, but wrong needs to stay wrong. This wishy-washy-ness has even rubbed off on me a few times with catastrophic results. It's like my ex-wife. Her feminism is more important than her family. She had rights! Unfortunately all I had was responsibilities. She's on her third husband now, unhappy as hell, but she's still got her rights. Every man she was ever with abused the little darling. And when she's found out and even her feminist friends think shes a painful bitch..... next town... next husband.... poor me.... I was abused..... I think it's what happens when you attend a womans college and they teach you your shit doesn't stink.

You might think I'd be angry, but I'm not. I'm sad. This woman was programmed to malfunction. She wouldn't even know what to do with a decent feeling. Not knowing anything about loyalty or honor or personal responsibility. She's a train wreck. No lasting friends. No lasting relationships... and it's the next town and the next guy when she's just embarrassed herself too much. It was why she left me. I guess she just got tired of burning me and couldn't figure out how to make it my fault anymore.

Not a good life. I have to take some personal responsibility too. I knew she was a flake. I should have never married her in the first place and that mistake cost a lot of people a lot of grief.... most of all... it fucked up my kid.... I did pretty good damage control, but I wish my daughter had a mom who loved her more than the golf pro.

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