Old 10th April 2013, 21:04   #1
MrSinatra
Forum King
 
MrSinatra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WKPS, State College
Posts: 5,195
Send a message via AIM to MrSinatra
regarding the Error Reporter plugin

taking the convo from the 5.7b thread to here, so as not to clutter that thread up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batter Pudding View Post
Email will be used as it will be "firewall friendly" and therefore simplest. Punching packets out via TCP will often trigger firewall flaps. With an email you also have the bonus of having the user's email address to talk to them if needed.
windows firewall, which most simple users use, doesn't block outgoing anything. any other firewall should alert the user and ask what to do. this is, imo, the far easier/better solution than trying to get people to not only setup winamp to work with email, but also setup their webmail to work with winamp!

when you install winamp, it does this. (sends your stats in if you let it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batter Pudding View Post
Setting up SMTP in gmail is simple. Just go into the settings of your gmail account and turn on POP\SMTP. (And as this is for sending, you may not even need to do that. I think SMTP will work for you already)
have you actually done this? b/c I did not find it simple or intuitive. and I am almost positive smtp does not work without setting something up. but I found it all confusing and gave up when I saw the port would be different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batter Pudding View Post
Then your outgoing server details are:
Username - full gmail email address
Password - as per gmail login
SMTP Server: smtp.gmail.com
Port: 587
SSL: On

Trouble with outgoing gmail is it needs to use SSL encryption. So hopefully the email library in use by Winamp can handle this.
that's unknown to me, and I don't know how we would know unless a dev tells us? also, I seem to recall gmail mentioning multiple ports, but I forget the details now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batter Pudding View Post
IMHO - I would think it could be best to do the trick the mobile phones do. Have templates for the SMTP settings for Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo, AOL, etc which can then flick these options for those who need them. Then the Winamp Reporter tool can select the relevant SMTP server details. And just leave open edit boxes for those of us who can talk raw SMTP
if they are going to do it the email way, then we agree on the above. I was kinda shocked to not see it there already, I mean, I can't even remember the last time I did anything for pop or smtp, outside of business, (and winamp is not meant for business). I never find pop/smtp fun either.

in addition to the templates in the plugin prefs, there should be a link to a thread (or wiki) that serves as a FAQ for what you need to do on the webmail serverside to make it work with the templates, for each webmail service. I think BP, since you seem to have the best handle on it, you should write the FAQ, as it would be a great service to the many simple dunce users, like me, who use webmail and want to see their error reports automatically sent.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
MrSinatra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th April 2013, 21:30   #2
Batter Pudding
Major Dude
 
Batter Pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,665
Firewall - I was not talking about just you. Many people have tougher firewalls in place. Norton products, McAfee etc tend to get quite childish as to how they deal with some data. And the users of products like this can often get panicy when they see a message and just block it. Hence email is easier.

Just look at the fuss that some posters make in this forum when they see Winamp doing ANY kind of network connection.

Gmail - yes. Those settings will work. I would not have posted them otherwise. I set it up all the time. I have been dealing with email since the mid-1980s so am well versed with how it works. And day job often has me setting up PCs to handle Gmail in a real email client. (The TIME saved by doing this is HUGE!! You don't realise how many hours you are wasting on gmail every day!!)

In fact I could pump email out byte by byte using Telnet when bored. I'm a low level geek who used to develop network software

Trust me - gmail is easy to setup as POP\IMAP and SMTP when you use the correct settings and not some random carp from a random forum. It is just Google who don't want you to do this so do throw in the odd curve ball to make it tricky. They need their lemmings to walk past all the adverts. It is how they make their money.

The settings you give to Winamp will be YOUR email address and password. And then tell it to send that mail using the Gmail server (smtp.gmail.com). See that as the Google Post Office. And the Port Number is the room you walk into to talk encrypted email. The username and password is your proof that you are allowed to send email. When Google mentioned "multiple ports" in their help, they meant you can use port 465 or 587.

What I have not yet tested is the Winamp implementation of this. I cannot yet tell you how the Winamp tool works. GMail tends to insist on encryption, which is a different port number, so may not yet be handled by Winamp. I'll play with this in the next couple of days and check for you.


As to why Winamp didn't put the pretty dialog into the Beta Test? Well - it is a BETA test. It is not supposed to be friendly. Developer hours should not be wasted on a reporting tool. Ideally you hand beta tests to technical people to kick things around.

And not just business people deal with POP\IMAP\SMTP. Also remember that Winamp is sooooo old that many geeks use it. And geeks talk this kinda language. So plenty of people will be able to set something up in those fields.

FAQs, Links, Wikis, etc are all for RELEASE products. Betas are supposed to be rough. And unpolished diamond.

As to me writing a FAQ? I currently don't have the free time. Hardly having time to test the Beta. But what I will do is to update this thread with the common server and port details required for SMTP on other "free" accounts like Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo, AOL, etc. This is common data, easy to find using a search, but I realise it is gobble-de-gook to many people.

As there is an ini file for this email reporter thing, I'll add some code here soon which shows what that ini file should look like for multiple different email account types.

I am now heading out for the evening so will pick up this thread another day.
Batter Pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2013, 08:15   #3
thinktink
Forum King
 
thinktink's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: On the streets of Kings County, CA.
Posts: 2,937
Send a message via Skype™ to thinktink
The only way I was able to get the crash report plugin to send a crash report was by using the default installed e-mail client (Outlook Express) with pop3 enabled on my gmail account. I personally would prefer that it would do it directly through the crash reporter plugin's handler but it seems that the plugin doesn't support SSL connections (unless a dev could specify how to enable it in the ini file.)
thinktink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2013, 12:41   #4
DrO
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,880
the crash reporter is only available in beta builds and was never intended for general usage as it won't work on release builds. hence it works but it's far from ideal and only appears in the 'open beta' builds or what is used for those with normal beta access.

it doesn't support SSL as the library the plug-in uses (which is separate from everything else in the rest of Winamp so cannot leverage that SSL support) doesn't support it.
DrO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2013, 12:50   #5
Batter Pudding
Major Dude
 
Batter Pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,665
Okay... just had my first close look and this is clearly a very beta reporting tool for reporting beta bugs from a beta build. It will work best for those with an email client already on the PC. (Which two of my test boxes don't have). Anyone else needs to have a non-encrypted email server available to send the message.

Beta testers are generally the kinda geeks who understand these kinds of things.

If you open the ini file %APPDATA%\Winamp\Plugins\feedback.ini you will see the settings.

Relevant to this discussion is the section [send] and an example looks like this:

code:
[Send]
UseClient=0
UseSMTP=1
Port=25
Address=fred@blah.com
ReqAuth=1
Server=smtp.blah.com
User=fred@blah.com
Pwd=passwordbetternotbereadable



So... pretty simple to work with. But also a little naughty and confused at the same time.

Naughty naughty - that password should not be so easily readable. It would be polite to at least ROT-13 it to be a little less human readable.

There is also clearly no SSL flag in there so will not work for gmail users. And as I check up, that is Hotmail\Outlook.com users out as well. And I think Yahoo too. And nothing really simple for them to do instead. I assume the reports are still generated in the plugins folder so webmail users will just need to send the report manually.

(I bet this same reporting page has been in Beta's for decades and dates from back in the day when non-SSL email was the norm)


For those who have a non-encrypted SMTP option then this will be simple. Most email accounts offer non-SSL options as hangovers from the past. Especially ISP email accounts. But as this is, by very definition, unsecure as it sends your email and passwords in plain text, you see less of non-SSL email now.


All of these settings need to come from your email hosting company (or ISP).

Port number will generally be 25, 26 or 587
Address must be your email address
ReqAuth is almost certainly 1
Server is your SMTP server
Username is generally the email address as well.
Password is your email password.

Note that the Address is prefilled with a duff reporter@nullsoft.dev which needs replacing with your own email address.

If anyone needs assistance to sort this out, I'll help 'em out. Though I'd strongly suggest to just tick the box to let the email client on the PC handle it if one has been setup.

=-=-=-

Now to the "Winamp should make this work for everyone" question. I am still in the "don't waste valuable dev hours on it" side. Webmail users can still return reports, they just have to hook them out of the plugins folder themselves.

It's a beta page in a beta test version for returning beta test reports. It doesn't need to be pretty. It just needs to work. And if that is firing up an email client or dropping the report somewhere to be attached to a webmail - then it works.

Webmail users probably want to move the folder the reports are dropped into to some where more accessible.
Batter Pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2013, 12:56   #6
Batter Pudding
Major Dude
 
Batter Pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
the crash reporter is only available in beta builds and was never intended for general usage as it won't work on release builds. hence it works but it's far from ideal and only appears in the 'open beta' builds or what is used for those with normal beta access.

it doesn't support SSL as the library the plug-in uses (which is separate from everything else in the rest of Winamp so cannot leverage that SSL support) doesn't support it.
Haha... Hi DrO... trust you to be posting a reply same time as me. Thanks for confirming in two neat paragraphs what I have guessed in a long waffly post.


Now lets see if the rest of us can all have a long time wasting waffling debate about something irrelevant which could waste hours of dev time. (Where has that sarcasm font gone?)

Reporting tool seems perfect as it is to me (well, apart from making that Port number actually changeable in the GUI)

(Talking of gone.... I'm outta here for a few hours...)
Batter Pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2013, 13:00   #7
DrO
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batter Pudding View Post
well, apart from making that Port number actually changeable in the GUI
fixed for next build.
DrO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2013, 15:49   #8
Batter Pudding
Major Dude
 
Batter Pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
fixed for next build.
Nicey nice... Thanks

Which now means... I have no idea why people are reading this boring thread. No need to hack ini files.

Non-SSL Email - just whack in your SMTP server settings. Or use your email client.
SSL Email - Use your email client.
Webmail - go find the zip file and emailing it manually.

Seems a perfect solution to me.


Right... now for a bitta better beta battering coming up....
Batter Pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2013, 19:02   #9
MrSinatra
Forum King
 
MrSinatra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WKPS, State College
Posts: 5,195
Send a message via AIM to MrSinatra
BP, in the other thread you said u need an email client or this won't work. but the option says you can use a client, or configure it manually. are you saying manual setup doesn't work at all? and if it doesn't do SSL, will it work with webmail in either case? (some clients can use webmail)

i won't bother to go into detail about what i disagree with, but i'll state a few things anyway:

1. i wish error reporting was going to be a permanent part of winamp. why make it a beta feature only? surely winamp benefits from just the act of receiving error reports, so it can track the numbers over time, even if they don't examine each report?

(have one receive bin for beta reports, and one bin for release reports)

2. every other app sends error reports automatically (not via email) WITHOUT requiring users to configure anything in the app. it is just completely obvious that they will get more error reports that way, then by requiring users to delve into prefs, and configure email settings, and/or configure settings at their mail provider.

yes, some few 3rd party firewalls might behave badly and block it. so what? most will ask the user what to do and the few that don't, oh well. those numbers (of failures) are tiny compared to the current system of email hoops that most don't even know about and fewer even attempt. jmho, (and apparently the opinion of Microsoft, apple, and any other app I've ever seen error report).

i don't know how many users are giving the beta a go, but i don't think they are ALL advanced users, and we shouldn't assume it regardless. we should want all the error reports we can get imo, be they advanced or not.

3. i don't even use gmail, my wife does, i was going to try to setup this to work with her gmail, but it seems now that won't work, right? i use Hotmail, and it seems to not have any way to even attempt this, but i could be wrong. i stopped using a client with webmail some time ago.

4. so my solution to all this is: let the user decide! if they want to do email, fine, they can opt into the email options. otherwise, let the tool be automatic, and do its thing OUTSIDE of email, esp in the beta version. u will get a lot more reports that way!

FYI: i'm not trying to have a go at anyone either, i'm just stating my POV.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
MrSinatra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2013, 19:46   #10
Batter Pudding
Major Dude
 
Batter Pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
BP, in the other thread you said u need an email client or this won't work. but the option says you can use a client, or configure it manually. are you saying manual setup doesn't work at all? and if it doesn't do SSL, will it work with webmail in either case? (some clients can use webmail)
Simplification sir. Was just typing a shortened version of the comment to that poster. This is the thread to be more verbose. And here I will be so.

Note I said - use an email client, or "If you are a webmail only user and don't know which end of an SMTP to poke with a stick". Which, in more verbose words, means: Some people like Webmail. And those webmail users should stick to webmail. It makes sense. Webmail is ideal for some people's less technical needs. So this facility is handled by the reporting tool. In those cases the webmail user goes and gets the report.zip and attaches it to an email and sends it. (When someone gives us the email address to send it to)

For webmail users is probably makes sense to use that Beta Email Reporting Dialog to change the location of these reports so webmail users don't have to dip into that hidden folder.

SSL Email will NOT and will NEVER appear in this location. If the library don't support it, then it don't support it. No point in wasting dev hours on finding a new email library for something so trivial when other options work.

Those people who understand what SMTP is will be able to manually setup the dialog box in the beta reporting tool in the beta. The people who understand SMTP know what to do with their SMTP settings and which value goes into the relevant boxes in that beta Email Reporting Dialog Box.

The Beta Reporting Beta Email Beta dialog that offers to automatically send an email when the Beta Breaks is only in the Beta release. So, IMHO, there is no need to clean this up and make it idiot proof.

(I am now sure there is tooo many words there... I think the shorter version in the other thread made more sense....)

Now to read the rest of your reply....
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
i won't bother to go into detail about what i disagree with, but i'll state a few things anyway:

1. i wish error reporting was going to be a permanent part of winamp. why make it a beta feature only? surely winamp benefits from just the act of receiving error reports, so it can track the numbers over time, even if they don't examine each report?

(have one receive bin for beta reports, and one bin for release reports)
And these mailboxes will fill with spam very quickly.... There is no sense in taking the small number of developer hours available and redirecting them to an error reporting tool. This forum seems to do a good job of getting far more detailed error reports than any built in tool ever could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
2. every other app sends error reports automatically (not via email) WITHOUT requiring users to configure anything in the app. it is just completely obvious that they will get more error reports that way, then by requiring users to delve into prefs, and configure email settings, and/or configure settings at their mail provider.
Errr.... what applications are you using? This "every other app" bit is a strange statement. I know very few apps who phone home with error reports. And when they do it will usually be to a huge company with tons of spare people to wade through error reports.

This error reporting is only in the betas. And should stay like that. And betas usually are tested by people who know what SMTP is. Or can find a zip file of a report.

The main point is - everyone using this beta foudn it via the beta thread. So will return to the beta thread with their reports. Seems fine to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
yes, some few 3rd party firewalls might behave badly and block it. so what? most will ask the user what to do and the few that don't, oh well. those numbers (of failures) are tiny compared to the current system of email hoops that most don't even know about and fewer even attempt. jmho, (and apparently the opinion of Microsoft, apple, and any other app I've ever seen error report).
I guess you don't get to see many "home user" PCs.... And there are plenty of threads in this forum from people upset about ANY type of automatic phone home reporting. Generally it is frowned on as "a bad thing" and people get all kinds of paranoid. (And some silly people get especially paranoid as they see the big AOL in the background...)

Microsoft, Apple, etc are HUGE and can throw the test reports at huge departments of staff. I'd rather the Winamp guys were allowed to concentrate on the real features. And let the forum take the strain of sifting the Bug Reports like it has always done.

Again, this is a BETA feature for the beta releases and will be removed again in the final releases. Like it has always been....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
i don't know how many users are giving the beta a go, but i don't think they are ALL advanced users, and we shouldn't assume it regardless. we should want all the error reports we can get imo, be they advanced or not.
And if someone is using a beta who is getting confused then they return to the beta thread where they found the beta and explain their broken beta issues there. Then if a dev wants a report, they can ask for it as it will probably still be sitting in the plugins folder.

I would also hope that beginners would not risk a beta. There are too many risks - everything from stuffing the whole of a windows installation to trashing a prized Winamp database. Beta testing is not for everyone. And should never be done on a machine that doesn't have full backups and a simple rollback to earlier images unless you are ready to do that full rebuild....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
3. i don't even use gmail, my wife does, i was going to try to setup this to work with her gmail, but it seems now that won't work, right? i use Hotmail, and it seems to not have any way to even attempt this, but i could be wrong. i stopped using a client with webmail some time ago.
So your option in both cases will need to be to locate the zip file and email it manually. Or setup a mail client.

The built in Beta Email Report dialog is old. So is based around SMTP without encryption. From a quick bit of research this morning it is clear that all the major "Free" Webmail accounts now only do SSL encrypted SMTP. Which makes a lot of sense due to the spammers (conversation for another time - I could talk for HOURS about email and how it works right down to boring byte level).

In your case, what you can do if you want, is to setup Thunderbird on those PCs you want to automatically send reports from. As this is Beta Testing I assume you are not on your main PC. So adding Thunderbird to the test PC should not disrupt anything. Thunderbird is really simplified when setting up Gmail or Hotmail accounts. It does the work for you. just make sure you tick the IMAP options and it won't even disrupt what you see in your normal webmail.

If I was in your position I would set up a NEW outlook.com account for this. Otherwise you'll start making a mess of the wife's setup and that is always a bad idea. Make a new Outlook.com address of something like MrSinatraBetaTest@Outlook.com. Then install Thunderbird on the test PCs. Add this new Outlook.com email address to that client. And jobs a good un.

Now you keep your webmail clean and webmail for jsut you. While having a dedicated email client for sending email reports. Seems a far simpler and quicker solution than some poor dev having to get his head around implementing an SSL SMTP Email library. (Encryption is not simple... so would be a waste of Dev hours.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
4. so my solution to all this is: let the user decide! if they want to do email, fine, they can opt into the email options. otherwise, let the tool be automatic, and do its thing OUTSIDE of email, esp in the beta version. u will get a lot more reports that way!

FYI: i'm not trying to have a go at anyone either, i'm just stating my POV.
Yeah, I can see your logic there. But this is a beta test tool. Not an "always on error report tool". So I can understand why this is still left as simple. I also understand why the valuable developer hours should be spent on something valuable to Winamp and not these error reports. Winamp has lived longer and healthier than many other applications without this... so I think it can live. The Forum is the Error Report Tool. Staffed by cheap slave labour - us


And you could have had Thunderbird setup and running in less time that it has taken you to read this email. I'll happily sit here and help you walk through it all and understand it if you want. This will be quicker and cheaper than Winamp trying to create a bullet proof phone home reporting tool.
Batter Pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2013, 23:47   #11
djpete
Major Dude
 
djpete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 945
you also have to manually uninstall it. Cant remove from plugins area. Just saying. Maybe its intended that way.

Cheers, Pete

Anything & Everything Winamp - All In One Place...
Winamp Enthusiasts Group
djpete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2013, 00:29   #12
Aminifu
Forum King
 
Aminifu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by djpete1959 View Post
you also have to manually uninstall it. Cant remove from plugins area. Just saying. Maybe its intended that way.
You don't have to uninstall it (if you are talking about the gen_crasher.dll), unless you don't want to generate crash error reports. And even then you can turn that off with the configuration options in the General Preferences - Plugins dialog.

The error reporter (reporter.exe) probably keeps running (after Winamp exits) because it is trying to automatically send a crash error report. The automatic sending can also be turned off with the configuration options, but the crash error report can still be generated.

I do this because I don't want all the crash error reports sent. Sometimes I crash Winamp fooling around with stuff. Those crash error reports I don't want sent because I know what caused the crash. The ones I do want sent (crashes that occur when I'm carefully following instructions on how things are supposed to work), I send manually.

Winamp Pro 5.666.3516 fully-patched - Komodo X Touchscreen by Victhor skin
Windows 10 Home 64-bit desktop - Logitech Z906 5.1 speaker system
Aminifu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2013, 00:31   #13
djpete
Major Dude
 
djpete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 945
thanks for clarifying Aminifu

Cheers, Pete

Anything & Everything Winamp - All In One Place...
Winamp Enthusiasts Group
djpete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2013, 11:34   #14
Batter Pudding
Major Dude
 
Batter Pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,665
I would expect a non-beta release of 5.7 will come along with a file shredding hammer and delete the beta bug reporting tool reporter.exe when its use has expired.

It also will behave oddly as I don't think it is the most finally crafted tool. Built just enough so it "works" for beta testing, but not release hardened. With its own bit of senile behaviour thrown in for free.

I remember when I created a Beta test tool that would spit out logs. Made a fatal error in it. A small typo. But that then meant that the reporting tool would crash the main application only when producing logs. That was a fun one to trace....
Batter Pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2013, 11:44   #15
DrO
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,880
with non-beta releases, gen_crasher won't load by design as the hooks it needs to work are not present in release builds. so if it was present in the plug-ins list, with 5.7 it'll just show as not loaded and that's it as just a dll and reporter.exe in the plug-ins folder doing nothing else.
DrO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2013, 11:55   #16
Batter Pudding
Major Dude
 
Batter Pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,665
Poor lonely plugin left abandoned and alone... Never knowing when it may be needed again. It would be kinder to shoot it. Makes me think of the Spirit Rover on Mars: http://xkcd.com/695/
Batter Pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2013, 19:09   #17
Aminifu
Forum King
 
Aminifu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
I do this because I don't want all the crash error reports sent. Sometimes I crash Winamp fooling around with stuff. Those crash error reports I don't want sent because I know what caused the crash. The ones I do want sent (crashes that occur when I'm carefully following instructions on how things are supposed to work), I send manually.
I should have included in that post that I have not had a serious crash I wanted to report. I don't have (or want) a Facebook account, so have not been able to play with the Cloud feature. That and streaming seems to be the sources of most of the problems that need to be ironed out (and that pesky "ml_disc.dll").

I had assumed that the address in "feedback.ini" is the one to send reports to. Then I saw another address in the Beta thread. Which one is it? If it is not for public knowledge, will someone please PM me the correct address.

Winamp Pro 5.666.3516 fully-patched - Komodo X Touchscreen by Victhor skin
Windows 10 Home 64-bit desktop - Logitech Z906 5.1 speaker system
Aminifu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2013, 19:19   #18
DrO
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,880
it's the one Egg and ujay alluded to.
DrO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2013, 19:29   #19
Batter Pudding
Major Dude
 
Batter Pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,665
The address in the ini file is not valid. There is no .dev TLD. That is the box you put your address into. I should have been clearer in my instructions above. Should I do a summary for you?

Everything should be sent to The-Insect-And-Other-Creepy-Crawly ((a)(t)) winamp not dev but com (but remember there is only one of them....)


Remember - the only web mail that will work requires a Duck to be attached to the report. The developers need feeding and they will roast that duck on arrival.
Batter Pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2013, 20:17   #20
ujay
Forum King
 
ujay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London
Posts: 6,076
If all else fails you could just attach 'report.zip' to a forum post.

UJ
ujay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2013, 20:51   #21
MrSinatra
Forum King
 
MrSinatra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WKPS, State College
Posts: 5,195
Send a message via AIM to MrSinatra
BP, we just need to agree to disagree. obviously the devs will do what they think best, and they agree with you. but even if that is the case, I still wish the error reporting was automatic in ALL versions of winamp, b/c as I said, just seeing how many come in over time would be useful.

in addition, it is clear that if they are automatically sent, vs having to configure email to do it, they would get more of them. doesn't mean I begrudge an email option, or an opt out option.

btw, lots of apps do error reporting automatically, not just apple and MS.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
MrSinatra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th April 2013, 10:43   #22
Batter Pudding
Major Dude
 
Batter Pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
BP, we just need to agree to disagree. obviously the devs will do what they think best, and they agree with you. but even if that is the case, I still wish the error reporting was automatic in ALL versions of winamp, b/c as I said, just seeing how many come in over time would be useful.
Doing a count of error reports is not going to tell you anything unless you also had a count of successful runs. Counting reports mean nothing unless you know what percentage they are.

There still are not enough spare staff available at Winamp to wade through these reports everyday. Us forumites do that job for them instead by dragging the details out of people who report bugs to the forum here. I don't notice enough "show stoppers" of bugs being reported in 5.6 to have paid for the time that an auto-error reporter would have helped.

And comically, so far I have killed\locked up Winamp Beta three times. And each of those times it has been a type of crash that has not been able to generate a report. Unless you re-write the majority of the program and stick it behind try {} catch statements then you can never catch every crash. Always better to get humans to come and describe them.

Good error reports always need a human element to describe what was happening before the crash. You always need to know how the human got the software into that state. What did they do that was unexpected? An automatic error report only shows the state of the software at a single moment in time - which can often be misleading as to the location of the actual bug.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
in addition, it is clear that if they are automatically sent, vs having to configure email to do it, they would get more of them. doesn't mean I begrudge an email option, or an opt out option.
Quick question - when you install Winamp do you tick the box to allow it to send feedback about the install? Personally I always say no to these features on any software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
btw, lots of apps do error reporting automatically, not just apple and MS.
Yeah - and some of them get horrendous!! This is why most people will always avoid these options in their software. Have you seen the average printer install from LexMark, HP, Canon, Brother, etc? They all sling in tracking software now that not only reports bugs, but reports exact daily usage of the printer.

I remember once finding a 750MB Log file being generated by a cheap Lexmark printer on a client's XP PC. The PC only had 512MB RAM installed. This log file was growing and growing and not only taking up disk space by was kept loaded in memory all the time. This kind of bug chasing and tracking tool will often be thrown at the junior developer to create - and they often make a mess of it.

The one we are seeing in the Winamp Beta is clearly knocked together as basic and simple as possible. Barely tested. Which is why it must come out of the final release.

There is also the point that most of the debugging information will not actually be available in the final release. Note that DrO has pointed out just above that the debugging hooks will not be in the release version of the code. The compiler options will be different, and the code packed different. Release versions of products get all kinds of optimised tweaks. And all those nice little references to the call stack will be lost. The reports from a release version will not have the same ability to be traced.


Meanwhile, back to the automatic beta error reporting - Have you managed to get Thunderbird setup to do your automatic error reports okay? I think once you see how smoothly Thunderbird can handle your mailbox I doubt you will go back to the web interface.
Batter Pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Winamp & SHOUTcast Forums > Winamp > Winamp Discussion

Tags
error, report

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump