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Old 20th November 2013, 23:45   #41
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Plague: there's not enough of what you'd know to constitute a Wasabi player in the code if it were to provided to do what you're wanting. plus as i think you mention in another posts, it's too much of a Wasabi / Classic / everything done since then mash-up that i don't see how it'd be useful (without likely still having to re-write a lot).
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Old 20th November 2013, 23:52   #42
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Yeah, I figured it would be like that these days.. Quite sad actually.
But still, having a mash-up codebase open sourced is way better than not having it.
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Old 21st November 2013, 00:31   #43
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This is heartbreaking. I use Winamp and Winamp forums every day of my life. This is a true significant life change for me. I signed, because open sourcing is less painful than just cancelling altogether, but I still know that reality exists and that it won't be what a lot of people hope it could be.

Don't forget to live before you die.
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Old 21st November 2013, 00:36   #44
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Signed.
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Old 21st November 2013, 00:45   #45
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finally had a look at the petition and my initial reaction is.... whoa, you're all signing that you want it released under a GPL license ?!?

i might have agreed with LGPL or maintaining the Zlib/BSD style license we effectively use for the parts / sdk that have been made available.

but GPL? i don't have issues with open source code in appropriate manners (which i've tried to explain Winamp completely is likely not going to be), but GPL is too viral and as i generally run closed source plug-ins, i effectively would be cut off from using Winamp due to the issues there are over GPL code and provided APIs vs non-GPL plug-ins - wonderful!
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Old 21st November 2013, 00:57   #46
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Yup LGPL or MPL, GPL has so many restrictions, that's why a lot of programs changed their license from GPL to Mozilla Public License, LGPL or BSD.
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Old 21st November 2013, 01:12   #47
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but GPL? i don't have issues with open source code in appropriate manners (which i've tried to explain Winamp completely is likely not going to be), but GPL is too viral and as i generally run closed source plug-ins, i effectively would be cut off from using Winamp due to the issues there are over GPL code and provided APIs vs non-GPL plug-ins - wonderful!
Doesn't the GPL only apply to distribution? as in you can't distribute something with closed source plug-ins but you can run it with them.

Anyway if pigs do fly then I agree that Zlib/BSD style or MPL would be better.
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Old 21st November 2013, 01:22   #48
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Actually I have seen this run in myself, GPL would be bad from a closed source plugin author's standpoint. Although I doubt that that is the intent of this petition, GPL is just a popular term for open source. The petition only asked that it be considered, not that it absolutely must be GPL.
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Old 21st November 2013, 01:50   #49
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finally had a look at the petition and my initial reaction is.... whoa, you're all signing that you want it released under a GPL license ?!?

i might have agreed with LGPL or maintaining the Zlib/BSD style license we effectively use for the parts / sdk that have been made available.

but GPL? i don't have issues with open source code in appropriate manners (which i've tried to explain Winamp completely is likely not going to be), but GPL is too viral and as i generally run closed source plug-ins, i effectively would be cut off from using Winamp due to the issues there are over GPL code and provided APIs vs non-GPL plug-ins - wonderful!
Like Jay said, I don't think the final idea is to go fully GPL, this is sort of "foot in the door", if AOL agree to something I highly doubt it'll be" full open source ", they're too greedy..
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Old 21st November 2013, 01:54   #50
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I like what Jay is saying. I don't know if everybody understands the differences in the options discussed. They may be signing mostly to make sure that it's at least considered to live on, in some shape or form.

Don't forget to live before you die.
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Old 21st November 2013, 01:54   #51
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petition amended!
and yes I think people are signing on the general premise of
"mostly to make sure that it's at least considered to live on, in some shape or form."

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Old 21st November 2013, 02:31   #52
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wouldn't it get really gutted if it was opened? they wouldn't release all of their plug-ins, would they?
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Old 21st November 2013, 04:06   #53
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Quote:
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issues can be fixed externally or even shims introduced by the OS to help.
You've probably already thought about releasing the PDB. But even without that, a LOT is still possible. For certain people, "we don't need no stinkin' source".


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wouldn't it get really gutted if it was opened? they wouldn't release all of their plug-ins, would they?
They couldn't release all of the plugins in a way that would compile, since there's licensed code coming from places like Fraunhoffer (and previously Coding Technologies) which obviously can't be included.
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Old 21st November 2013, 04:44   #54
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Over 700 signatures in a few hours. Who says Winamp is not relevant, popular or wanted?

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Old 21st November 2013, 04:55   #55
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I signed it too........
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Old 21st November 2013, 05:16   #56
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@DrO

I know my suggestion of creating another WinAmp clone might seem hasty, however you mentioned perfect reasons for thinking about it already yourself.

If Winamp is to go open-source, it will be hard to join potential developers on a common base, your worst-case-scenario of everyone taking the source and trying to do their own version is most likely.

That's why we should start early discussing how we can avoid this.

The Winamp source-code isn't going to be usable for much more than reference anyway. As you correctly said as well, it is impossible that winamp can be made open-source as a whole. That's maybe why one should start thinking about rewriting winamp from base and using the old source as a guideline. When I look at the current Plugin API I can imagine that the source code of winamp probably is pretty messed up anyways, little changes over a long time. Would it be that bad to update winamp to "modern programming standards?"

If you put your hope in the plugin API I strongly suggest expanding the documentation. Right now its more than insufficient.

Regards,
Xaser

PS: I'm sure the most important licences for an open-source Winamp can be financed by Donations / Crowdfunding, looking at how many supporters the petition already has.
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Old 21st November 2013, 06:59   #57
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Signed with 902 Supporters, lets get some more.
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Old 21st November 2013, 07:14   #58
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+1 open source this software

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Old 21st November 2013, 07:46   #59
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So many 100's and 100's of messages from posters on the bottom of the petition. Proud to read. I hope some of the AOL execs have a little time to browse through them..

https://www.change.org/en-AU/petitio...go-open-source

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Old 21st November 2013, 08:46   #60
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signed.

Really need this somehow to be kept alive.

I've used it for over ten years.

No other player comes close.
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Old 21st November 2013, 09:11   #61
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Part of Our Lives

Winamp has been a huge part of our music enjoyment. If AOL's not going to be making any more money out of it anyway, I hope they'll let it live on as open source. Signed!
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Old 21st November 2013, 09:34   #62
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Our petition is making the news. Good. That will draw more attention to it, 1650 people signed it already!
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Old 21st November 2013, 09:47   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaser View Post
If you put your hope in the plugin API I strongly suggest expanding the documentation. Right now its more than insufficient.
which i have been working on as time allows (as a lot of people seem to have missed there was an actual client update and all of the work that entailed), but is likely to be something that i'll get done in december (early january at the latest) when i've the time to do it (as personally i've some higher priority things to sort out in that time).
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Old 21st November 2013, 09:53   #64
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I certainly endorse this! After that I hope the AOL, Web browser plugin and other useless plugins get stripped off making it the lean, minimal, unbloated player it once was.
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Old 21st November 2013, 09:54   #65
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g00ey: you can already not install that stuff and use a different skin, it's really not that difficult and that has been the cause _always_. as the biggest users of memory are fancy skins and having large media libraries, the online services stuff doesn't add that match to the Winamp memory foot print (especially if not using it).
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Old 21st November 2013, 10:34   #66
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ATTENTION AOL.
Here is just 20mins worth of petition comments from people from all around the world. We love Winamp...

Supporters

Reasons for signingMost Popular Latest
.
.
Paul Cameron AUSTRALIA 1 minute ago Like 0
great program.

Christian Bächle GERMANY 2 minutes ago Like 0
Beste Software kann doch weiter leben gepflegt von der communiti besser geht das nicht

Peter Fortunato BOCA RATON, FL 2 minutes ago Like 0
I love winamp it is really one of if not the best media player that i have used

José Martins de Oliveira SãO PAULO, BRAZIL 2 minutes ago Like 0
It's the best media player out there, the classic skin make it really light, I can't see myself using another player really.

Darren Neville GEELONG WEST, AUSTRALIA 3 minutes ago Like 0
Though I don't use winamp. It's not good to see it go.

Ryan Tongs AUSTRALIA 4 minutes ago Like 0
Because it is the great audio player, ever!

Mat Kundert GERMANY 5 minutes ago Like 0
it's simply a basic app on my pc - keep it alive, make it more available & better on mobile devices!

Jerad Secic CAIRNLEA, AUSTRALIA 5 minutes ago Like 0
Long live winamp!!!

Andre Duselder GERMANY 5 minutes ago Like 0
WinAmp is the first and only media player I ever used and I want to continue using it!

texier camille FRANCE 5 minutes ago Like 0
This app is like a living dino but cooler and useful. Thousand ppl use it.

David Tuzes MALMö, SWEDEN 5 minutes ago Like 0
Easiest mediaplayer to use, using since it came out!

Sean Mcintier AUSTRALIA 5 minutes ago Like 0
I love WinAmp! My favorite audio player! I've been using it for over 11 years now!

Andrei-Alin Dascalu ROMANIA 7 minutes ago Like 0
Winamp must not die. Period.

Steven Schalhorn GERMANY 7 minutes ago Like 0
Sourcecode should be free, AOL should release the Source of Winamp for the benefit of everyone.

Simon Jakob GERMANY 8 minutes ago Like 0
Winamp is still the best musicplayer there is. I don't want surrender to bloatware like ITunes. I want the simple Winamp to be kept alive.

Simon Jakob GERMANY 8 minutes ago Like 0
Winamp is still the best musicplayer there is. I don't want surrender to bloatware like ITunes. I want the simple Winamp to be kept alive.

Leo-Paul Darse FRANCE 9 minutes ago Like 0
the visualisations

Gerald Ratzmann GERMANY 10 minutes ago Like 0
very simple. it is a very good mediaplayer

Markus Mayer GERMANY 10 minutes ago Like 0
Part of 'Media'-History

Joergen von Bargen HAMBURG, GERMANY 10 minutes ago Like 0
Just want to keep it

P Oop NEVADA, SAUDI ARABIA 11 minutes ago Like 0
I love Winamp because of that cool black rock shooter skin KEEP IT ALIVE PLS

Jan-Oliver Ohloff GERMANY 11 minutes ago Like 0
Winamp is the very best sound application for windows PC's and I'm using it for around 12 years now!

James Last GERMANY 11 minutes ago Like 0
It's the only one!

Tobias Becker NüRNBERG, GERMANY 11 minutes ago Like 0
Best Player ever!

Rio Bravo GERMANY 11 minutes ago Like 0
Winamp is the best media player ever built. It can't be left to die. It must live on. If AOL allows it to go open source it WILL live on forever and be in the hands of people who love it and use it every day.

AOL, Keep Winamp alive or let it go open source. Sincerely,

Sergej B GERMANY 12 minutes ago Like 0
Winamp was my first music player since more then 10 years and it's still my favourite. So let it go open source!!!

oshy sOOpasta ST JULIEN EN G., FRANCE 12 minutes ago Like 0
just the best audio player

Vincent Willcox IPSWICH, UNITED KINGDOM 12 minutes ago Like 0
I have used Winamp since version 1. Please open source the code. Don't let it die!

Romulo Borges PATOS DE MINAS, BRAZIL 13 minutes ago Like 0
Best player ever. Since 1998 with me...

Peter Gamberg GIBRALTAR 15 minutes ago Like 0
best player in the world

Alexander Szymanski GERMANY 15 minutes ago Like 0
It is my fav media player

David Kunzler GERMANY 15 minutes ago Like 0
It really whips the llama's ass!

Paul Klabuster GERMANY 16 minutes ago Like 0
KEEP WINAMP ALIVE! I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT WINAMP, BITCHES!

Reinhard Stadlmayr WIEN, AUSTRIA 16 minutes ago Like 0
The best mp3 player ever!

Tamás Antal KAPOSFO, HUNGARY 17 minutes ago Like 0
This is my faveorit mp3 player application, as it was in the past 10 years. I want to use it in the future, winamp must live on!!!

Tamás Antal KAPOSFO, HUNGARY 17 minutes ago Like 0
This is my faveorit mp3 player application, as it was in the past 10 years. I want to use it in the future, winamp must live on!!!

Andrewq Maude AUSTRALIA 17 minutes ago Like 0
I will only use it if it goes open-source. I love Winamp, I'd hate to see it die...

C Orban LIEGE, BELGIUM 17 minutes ago Like 0
I have been using Winamp for all my audio needs since as far as I can remember! It's the best audio player there is out there, please let us keep it!

Sascha Krimmling GERMANY 17 minutes ago Like 0
using winamp since its first release!

Florent Tual LONDON, UNITED KINGDOM 18 minutes ago Like 0
I still am a winamp user and would like to continue

Florian Nelladich VIENNA, AUSTRIA 18 minutes ago Like 0
For Everever!

Andreas Tamasco GERMANY 20 minutes ago Like 0
Winamp is a historical piece of software for Windows. It would be a shame to let it die.

Uwe Grasshoff DRESDEN 20 minutes ago Like 0
I daily using Winamp for several years now. And it's the best player for me on Windows and also on Android. Please don't let Winamp die.

stefan koerner GERMANY 21 minutes ago Like 0
Please make Winamp Open Source - there is no alternative to it on Windows (not everyone likes iTunes reselling data) -it is a sad time when companies buy good products for money and then close them down. shame on you if you do that.

Ionut Danieel Androne BUCHAREST, ROMANIA 21 minutes ago Like 0
Winamp is the best media player ever built. It can't be left to die. It must live on.

If AOL allows it to go open source it WILL live on forever and be in the hands of people who love it and use it every day.

AOL, Keep Winamp alive or let it go open source.

Cheers, Pete

Anything & Everything Winamp - All In One Place...
Winamp Enthusiasts Group
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Old 21st November 2013, 15:34   #67
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Old 21st November 2013, 16:54   #68
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Quote:
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Signed.

If Winamp will not be open source, I will personally start an open source winamp clone project.. after checking legal issues of course..
There's no reason you can't do the same things WinAMP does... or even offer a nearly identical UI.

The only problem is licensing CODECs. I'm not sure what the licensing situation is on MP3 right now. You should check with the MPEG-LA and see if there's a free-use license for free software.

Here is the major problem: The minimum royalty is $15,000 a year, according to http://mp3licensing.com/royalty/software.html

I would check in with the VLC folks and find out how they're distributing a free program... maybe there are some terms that allow for free software to use MPEG technology without having to pay for it.
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Old 21st November 2013, 17:01   #69
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Signed!
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Old 21st November 2013, 17:04   #70
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They couldn't release all of the plugins in a way that would compile, since there's licensed code coming from places like Fraunhoffer (and previously Coding Technologies) which obviously can't be included.
That's my thought, too: they can't release everything, so they'd have to redact a lot of source files. In the end, you'd get basically the UI and skinning components, with no useful playback capability.

However... that would still be enough to start on. There is certainly a wealth of FOSS software for the CODECs that WinAMP supports, and many of them have licenses that allow for free use in free software.

Personally, I'd even be happy with the WinAMP shell as a wrapper for Windows Media Player. I actually wrote a WMP shell myself a few years ago. It was actually my first HTPC media player, since I had built an HTPC before that became a thing.
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Old 21st November 2013, 17:08   #71
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@DrOThe Winamp source-code isn't going to be usable for much more than reference anyway. As you correctly said as well, it is impossible that winamp can be made open-source as a whole. That's maybe why one should start thinking about rewriting winamp from base and using the old source as a guideline. When I look at the current Plugin API I can imagine that the source code of winamp probably is pretty messed up anyways, little changes over a long time. Would it be that bad to update winamp to "modern programming standards?"
http://lindesk.com/2008/03/top-10-linux-mp3-players/

There are already clone projects out there. It might be better to simply suppoprt XMMS or something similar, rather than re-invent the wheel.
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Old 21st November 2013, 17:09   #72
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Oh, and FWIW... I SUPPORT this petition. I would love to have a FOSS version of WinAMP
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Old 21st November 2013, 17:12   #73
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Did anybody really look into the licensing stuff? I just did a bit of googling and it said that many open source en/decoders are only published in code, not binaries to avoid royalties.

A hope?
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Old 21st November 2013, 17:16   #74
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AOL killed Netscape Navigator by the same way, and became the good Mozilla's Firefox which i use.
if Winamp goes like Firefox, i'll follow..
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Old 21st November 2013, 17:17   #75
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signed!
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Old 21st November 2013, 18:56   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomXP411 View Post
That's my thought, too: they can't release everything, so they'd have to redact a lot of source files. In the end, you'd get basically the UI and skinning components, with no useful playback capability.

However... that would still be enough to start on. There is certainly a wealth of FOSS software for the CODECs that WinAMP supports, and many of them have licenses that allow for free use in free software.
The plugins can be replaced with free software as you said, and for the time being, there's always the already released binary plugins that would work fine for a long time even after an open source version of Winamp had been updated with new features.

The really, really important thing to have open sourced in Winamp is not those plugins, but the app itself, the core, media library, playlist editor, equalizer, plugin interface, skinning components (the rest of Wasabi, Maki, etc) and so on.

If we loose those things, then it's only a matter of time before Winamp truly will be dead.
If we get those things as open source, then there is nothing stopping Winamp from living on forever.

The things that kept wasabi.player (Winamp3 fork) from happening was basically the missing source code for the skinning components, Maki and the core. There was an attempt at replacing the core but the skinning engine would have had to be completely replaced with a new, incompatible one as Maki was missing.
And as it turned out, there was just way too much work (and I was a total noob at C++ at the time, so couldn't help either ).

So. The code for the application itself is the most important to save. Proprietary plugins are not the problem.
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Old 21st November 2013, 19:54   #77
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At this stage in the game I would be shocked if Winamp completely disappeared, there appears to be enough interest to at least keep things going, without AOL.

I personally don't think we will see anyone pushing the delete key on the source code. It will probably find a new owner. Rumors in media are that MS is interested.
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Old 21st November 2013, 20:31   #78
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Yeaaaa... That would not be good, at all.. Please not them.
MS would destroy Winamp as we know it, no doubt.
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Old 21st November 2013, 20:44   #79
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MS buy it... fuk no them clowns only fuk software up and add infested spyware into it

look at there own media player.. it went to shit.

winamp needs open sourcing so the real community can have at it.

My signature was just too damn good to be seen here..
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Old 21st November 2013, 20:59   #80
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Signed.

Patching binaries can only get you so far.
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