Old 31st December 2006, 20:33   #1
abu
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ml_iPod 2.01 released: Gapless playback and Transcoding

This is the "New Year Edition":
  • Transcoding is back! (Only with Winamp 5.3or above)
  • "Gapless playback" data with 5.5G iPods
  • Cover Art for Motorola phones
  • some new menu items for "Help..."
  • extract cover art from audible files (*.aa)
  • a lot of bug fixes and minor improvements, and more....
You can download version 2.01 of the iPod plugin here

A full list of all changes can be found here. Enjoy, and have a great New Year!

----
EDIT: There is a crash issue with album art! To avoid it, if you switch on the album art feature for your iPod, eject the iPod once after changing this setting (before loading any songs or covers).

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Last edited by abu; 8th January 2007 at 17:31.
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Old 5th January 2007, 20:29   #2
kaatinthehaat
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Thanks Abu. I've installed this new version and the latest patch and I have had no problems so far. Gapless playback seems to be working perfectly.


80GB 5.5 generation Video iPod

4GB and 8GB gen 2 Nano's with ****+

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Old 7th January 2007, 10:41   #3
drugo
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thanks!

now to me lirycs works great
but not with the mp4?
does it support lyrics for mp4?
i added lyrics with the same tags mp3 & mp4


Quote:
Gapless playback seems to be working perfectly.
not for the ipod nano
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Old 7th January 2007, 18:02   #4
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lyrics for mp4? -> No, how are they stored?
Gapless playback, not for the ipod nano -> True, as explained in the Release Notes...

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Old 8th January 2007, 04:11   #5
kaatinthehaat
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Why would you want lyrics for mp4's anyway... They're video files.

80GB 5.5 generation Video iPod

4GB and 8GB gen 2 Nano's with ****+

Winamp 5.52 Pro ; ml_iPod 3.05
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Old 8th January 2007, 05:11   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by abu
lyrics for mp4? -> No, how are they stored?
Gapless playback, not for the ipod nano -> True, as explained in the Release Notes...
they are stored in the tags like mp3
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Old 8th January 2007, 11:17   #7
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ID3v2 tags? I need technical details. In a USLT frame? Can you tell me a free application to edit the MP4 tags (not iTunes) for lyrics?

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Old 8th January 2007, 12:04   #8
drugo
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i use for ml_ipod in mp3
foobar + http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...opic=36598&hl=

the link give u a plugins able to download every lyrics and add to tag , work 100% with ml_ipd
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Old 8th January 2007, 12:12   #9
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Ok, I found some info. It is a completely different tag scheme that is used in MP4. So at the moment I can't support this, sorry. Would be too much work. I need a complete MP4 handling library for that, 'cause Winamps in_mp4 does not give me the lyrics

I added this to http://www.joerobot.com/mlipodwiki/i...ersus_pmp_iPod

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Old 10th January 2007, 15:33   #10
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Quote:
Gapless playback" data with 5.5G iPods
will be available for nano in the next build?
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Old 10th January 2007, 18:58   #11
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I'm sorry to say No. I couldn't find out how Apple creates a special field in the database. I would LOVE to add this, but I spent several hours on this already. (I have a Nano, too)

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Old 11th January 2007, 15:26   #12
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by the way it could do great this feature (limit mb ) in playlist & smartplaylist in sync

there is one in autofill
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Old 14th January 2007, 19:50   #13
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So I've been totally unsuccessful in getting gapless playback on my 5.5G iPod, using either ml_ipod or pmp_ipod and transcoding to the iPod from FLAC files (either as MP3 or AAC). I *have*, however, been successful using the Transcode 2.0 plug-in (from Winamp Essentials 5.3) to transcode from FLAC (EAC/AccurateRip) to MP4 AACplus High Bitrate (128), load the AAC files in iTunes 7.0, and synch to the iPod. iTunes scans for gapless info as it loads the files, and they play fine on the iPod. With either Winamp transcode via ml_ipod or pmp_ipod, there are small gaps between the tracks (I've tested with two separate recordings -- same outcome).

Any suggestions?
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Old 14th January 2007, 19:54   #14
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If it doesn't work with pmp_ipod, it's a Winamp issue. That's what I thought first, when I read about your problem. I guess the transcoding simply does not write correct gapless info. And iTunes does something different to get that data, it does not look at the tags, I think. That's why it works with iTunes.

Report it to the Winamp guys as a bug, please. But it's better to not mention ml_ipod! It's obviously not related to ml_ipod.

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Old 14th January 2007, 20:38   #15
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Will do. Just as a point of clarification, are ml_ipod and pmp_ipod using the same transcode mechanism? I assume so, but thought it worth checking.

Thanks!
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Old 14th January 2007, 20:41   #16
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Oops...hit reply before I thought of another question. When transcoding via ml_ipod from FLAC to an iPod, will any target codecs other than MP3 work? I've been switching back and forth between ml and pmp and with the latter, I get the "Some of the tracks were of an incompatible format..." error and the transfer fails.
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Old 15th January 2007, 12:22   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Balthazar_B
Just as a point of clarification, are ml_ipod and pmp_ipod using the same transcode mechanism? I assume so, but thought it worth checking.
Yes, they do. The transcoding is a service provided by the main Winamp module, via the API. The same API is used by both plugins. And it is very new, so it is very likely that there are some bugs in it.

Quote:
When transcoding via ml_ipod from FLAC to an iPod, will any target codecs other than MP3 work? I've been switching back and forth between ml and pmp and with the latter, I get the "Some of the tracks were of an incompatible format..." error and the transfer fails.
Well, every legal output format should work. MP3 or the 3 different AAC encoders provided by Winamp, all should work. Two of these 4 possibilities need the Pro version, though (MP3 and the HighBitrate AAC)

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Last edited by abu; 15th January 2007 at 14:06.
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Old 15th January 2007, 12:53   #18
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I've done a little more experimentation, and found that while ml_ipod will let me transcode to MP3 and various flavors of AAC 128 (direct to iPod), pmp_ipod will only let me transcode to MP3 (all the AAC encodings I've tried get the "incompatible format" error -- weird), so there's possibly something else going on. I'll try methodically going through a wider matrix of codecs and bitrates with both plugins and report the results.
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Old 15th January 2007, 16:18   #19
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OK, some interesting stuff I've discovered.

I've been going through the matrix of tests as mentioned above, and have pretty much determined that pmp_ipod is very limited in that for some reason it does not like to transcode FLAC->AAC to the iPod, whereas ml_ipod does so happily. So for the time being I may hold off on further pmp_ipod testing, as it seems a less versatile route.

But the things I've discovered about ml_ipod so far are these:

1. Transcoding FLAC to either MP3 (VBR) or AAC (128bit) to the iPod via ml_ipod leaves noticeable gaps. In both cases, running the "Add gapless" command seems to reduce, but not totally eliminate the gaps. There are still small hiccups between tracks.

2. If I use Transcoder 2.0 to transcode FLAC tracks to MP3 (VBR) stored on disk, and then move those files via ml_ipod to the iPod, and then run the "Add gapless" command, the result seems to be true gapless playback. Will run more tests to validate. Using the same steps but transcoding to AAC 128, there's still a slight gap between tracks after "Add gapless".

3. I discovered that when the iPod populated with AAC tracks (after "Add gapless") is mounted in iTunes 7, getting info on an individual track indicates that it is part of a gapless album (even though a small gap remains on playback). However, *if I play the track from the iPod in iTunes 7*, it sounds gapless, and then afterwards when I eject the iPod and play the track again on the iPod, it still sounds gapless. So I'm wondering if the act of playing the track in iTunes doesn't somehow tweak something so that the iPod will play it correctly.

I'll run more tests, but at least I know (or think I know) that MP3 transcoding from ml_ipod will get me to working gapless on the iPod without the intervention of iTunes (IOW, a pretty straightforward process), but I'd like to make this work with AAC somehow (without requiring iTunes), since those files tend to be a bit smaller without noticeable changes in output quality.

The AAC encoder in all the tests I've run so far, BTW, is the MP4/AACplus High Bitrate encoder. Don't know yet of any of the other encoders will behave differently, but trying them is the next logical step.
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Old 15th January 2007, 18:02   #20
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Very interesting results. One little remark:
Quote:
Originally posted by Balthazar_B
2. If I use Transcoder 2.0 to transcode FLAC tracks to MP3 (VBR) stored on disk, and then move those files via ml_ipod to the iPod, and then run the "Add gapless" command, the result seems to be true gapless playback.
In this case, the "Add gapless data" should not be necessary, it should not change anything. 'cause when ml_ipod transfers a new file to the
iPod, it always asks Winamp for the gapless data and writes it to the iPod.

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Old 16th January 2007, 00:11   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by abu
Very interesting results. One little remark:

In this case, the "Add gapless data" should not be necessary, it should not change anything. 'cause when ml_ipod transfers a new file to the
iPod, it always asks Winamp for the gapless data and writes it to the iPod.
Yes, I can confirm with the testing I've done so far this seems to work.

Ideally, I'd like to be able to transcode directly to the iPod and not have a shadow MP3 library hanging around in addition to the FLAC source, but it seems workable. I suppose I should consider simultaneous ripping to FLAC and LAME MP3 in the future when I use EAC, to save a step.

It would also be good to have the option of transcoding to AAC and have gapless just work as well. Someone has reported that using Apple's AAC encoder would likely achieve this, but I don't believe it has been made available as a Winamp plugin. Also, I have yet to do any real comparison listening between LAME MP3 128 VBR rips vs. AAC 128 rips, but I'll be doing that in the near future.

I confess I'm not sufficiently aware of the ins and outs of Winamp enough to know how much I can automate (e.g., automatic transcoding of new FLAC material to MP3 -- though simultaneous ripping would perhaps make that unnecessary), or how I can manage SmartLists and such. I've got a lot of forum reading to do .

Thanks for your help!
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Old 13th February 2007, 05:52   #22
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i think that the "Gapless playback" data in the nano is in the tags
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Old 13th February 2007, 10:01   #23
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No, it's not, it's only in the database.

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Old 13th February 2007, 16:00   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by abu
No, it's not, it's only in the database.
did u try to format your ipod with itunes , fill a live cd, extract the database & compare with a ml_ipod database
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Old 13th February 2007, 19:55   #25
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Sure, that's what I did for hours. There is one special field in the database that gets filled by iTunes, which I just can't figure out how to calculate. I gave up after some days....

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