BUG: embed art doesn't show

[MrSinatra]

winamp 5.8
win 10

the attached mp3 has an embedded artwork, but winamp doesn't show it. windows explorer and mp3tag do. doesn't mean its not flawed somehow, but if they both show it, so should winamp imo. would like to know the root of the failure.

just remove the .7z extension to DL the file.

[ryerman]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

...would like to know the root of the failure.

I can't explain it but I can tell you what I see.

I use Exiftool (https://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/) to work with audio and image metadata.
Exiftool shows that there are 2 pictures embedded in the file.
One is 2594 bytes, the other is 0 bytes.

My theory is that Mp3tag and File Explorer are smart enough to ignore the 0 byte picture and show the other, but Winamp is not.

You can fix the file using Mp3tag, but I bet you already know that. (extract cover, remove cover, add extracted cover)

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by ryerman

...

My theory is that Mp3tag and File Explorer are smart enough to ignore the 0 byte picture and show the other, but Winamp is not.

...

You are basically correct. Winamp only tries to use an embedded image with the 'front cover' tag, all other embedded images in a file are ignored.

[ryerman]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

....Winamp only tries to use an embedded image with the 'front cover' tag, all other embedded images in a file are ignored.

I don't believe that is correct.
I just embedded an image with 'Recording Location' as the cover type and it displays in Winamp.
I think it is more likely that the cover type is irrelevant.

[Aminifu]

What I described was the way it used to work, according to DrO. Maybe he said it worked that way when more than 1 image was embedded in a file. The discussion of this was several years ago. Anyway, it's possible changes were made in more recent versions.

I remember there was a plug-in years ago that allowed the user to select the embedded image that was displayed or rotate among all the embedded images in a file. I miss that plug-in.

[ryerman]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

....Winamp only tries to use an embedded image with the 'front cover' tag, all other embedded images in a file are ignored.

That is close but doesn't tell the whole story.

A little more testing tells me this:
1 embedded picture:
Winamp displays it no matter what type.

Multiple embedded pictures:
Winamp looks for one with type 'front cover' and displays it.
If none are type 'front cover', Winamp displays one of the pictures, no matter what type.
If there are more than one that are type 'front cover', Winamp displays one of them.

So in the example file provided by MrSinatra, Winamp trys to display the 0 byte picture because its type is 'front cover' but there is nothing to display.
I guess Winamp does not use any logic to catch 0 byte embedded images, which are probably very rare.

[MrSinatra]

Good detective work.

I dl'd the file in question. It does seem like winamp should have a size check, prior to going thru a prioritized list.

My fix was to delete the embed with mp3tag and use folder art instead.

[Aminifu]

I have little hope left that Winamp will be improved. I mostly use WACUP now (although it's last update was back in January).

Thank you ryerman for all the testing you've done. Exiftool is a good tool for checking what's in media files. I also use MediaInfo for this. MP3epoc is a free command line tool I use for fixing a few things that other more popular free tools can't.

I guess it will always be necessary to check for and fix discrepancies (if possible) in media files downloaded from others, especially if using Winamp to play them.

[thinktink]

To truly test Winamp's behavior on this issue try using a different file type. Remember that input plugins are the ones tasked with retrieving the metadata (including album art), Winamp then displays it. A different file type, like FLAC, might exhibit slightly differing behavior as it would be running from a different input plugin.

[MrSinatra]

I don't know how. My ability with embeds is minimal, I try not to use them.

One more small detail... I believe when Winamp failed, it not only didn't show any art, but on the artwork tab it reported no artwork was embedded at all... so it's not just failing to skip the 0 byte file, it's failing to report that anything is even present in the tag at all, even tho it appears to be displaying or using, or perhaps just flummoxed by the 0 byte file.

[MrSinatra]

another issue...

i have FLACs that have embedded art that shows in windows explorer and mp3tag, but not winamp. winamp reports no art file is present at all on the artwork tab.

unfortunately the files are too big to upload. not sure if the issue is the same or different, or format specific or what.

[Aminifu]

What format (jpg, jpeg, etc.) does Mp3tag say the embedded art is and what tag (Front Cover, etc.) is it using? Mp3tag should report the image size too, but that should not matter (unless it is gigantic).

BTW, the current version of Mp3tag (2.97) fixes an embedded art related error in it's previous version.

[ryerman]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

...unfortunately the files are too big to upload. not sure if the issue is the same or different, or format specific or what....

There are other tools that may help to diagnose the issue(s). (eg. Exiftool, metaflac, ffmpeg)
But we need the problem files.
File sharing with https://www.sendspace.com/ is free, easy to use and does not require an account.

[MrSinatra]

i am using the 2.97 ver, not that the problem was mp3tag.

here is the link:

https://www.sendspace.com/file/x7o70c

[ryerman]

The example file has 1 embedded JPG picture and the type is "Artist"

For FLAC files, at least 1 embedded picture must be "Front Cover" type.
Multiple "Front Cover" type pictures can be embedded: Winamp will display one of them, probably the first found.
This is easy to test by using the "Set cover type" function in Mp3tag.

I believe the maximum size for each picture is 16 MB, which is a FLAC limitation.
Embedded PNG pictures can also be displayed.

This is slightly different than the behaviour for MP3 files (see above), which illustrates the point made by thinktink.

[MrSinatra]

so, similar issue, thx. did u see my other art thread?

when it comes to art, i prefer the mp3tag, windows explorer tolerance methodology over winamps strict behavior. at the very least it should be an optional toggle, and the default should be tolerance. i remember DrO insisting that a jpg with a png extension should be rejected by winamp. that to me is him insisting on his preference, rather than accepting the reality out there that a lot of people aren't more concerned with perfection of tagging, but rather desire something that "just works" with less effort from them.

i also put this issue under that category. this afterall is the art we are talking about, not the audio, where i can see a more justifiable argument can be made to be more strict, (like with filename extensions or what have you).

[ryerman]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

...did u see my other art thread?...

Yes, I'm still experimenting.

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

...when it comes to art, i prefer the mp3tag, windows explorer tolerance methodology over winamps strict behavior. at the very least it should be an optional toggle, and the default should be tolerance....

I wouldn't argue against that.
Based on thinktink's comments, that may mean rewriting every input dll and/or creating special code for handling art without regard to audio file type.
I'll be amazed if new art handling code is created: hell, I'll be amazed if ver 5.8 gets out of beta!

[MrSinatra]

my guess is some of these issues might also apply to WACUP, so DrO could try to reproduce with these files if he's interested in making his project bulletproof.

[ryerman]

Winamp ver 6.0 or 7.0 or 8.0 might be released before DrO's project is publicly released.
(And my skepticism about Winamp's future development is no secret.)
I think DrO will not be satisfied until he has replaced every bit of the original code.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by ryerman

...
I think DrO will not be satisfied until he has replaced every bit of the original code.

I do believe that is the direction he is headed in.

Checking the contents of a file (at least it's header) instead of relying on it's extension to decide what format it is using will slow things down slightly (probably not even noticeable). Even so, checking a file's contents is not a terrible idea, imo.

[MrSinatra]

a very useful function in winamp would be a column in the ML that would be checked if either art or audio files had mismatched extensions to their header ID'd content. that would be better than strict rejections, bc it would allow users to fix the problem.

[MrSinatra]

ok, a truly odd behavior...

i have a folder of some downloaded George Benson files. most are mp3. one is m4a.

the m4a has an embedded artwork. the mp3s don't, they were using the Folder.jpg

i notice the issue, b/c i don't like the m4a artwork in the ML view, (it was only showing for that one file, the others were using the folder based art). i save it as "orig embed.jpg" from the alt+3 dialog and it is there in the folder. i then tell winamp to delete the artwork in the m4a, and winamp warns me it will be permanent, and it can't be undone. i say ok, and winamp reports that it successfully deleted it.

BUT WHAT ACTUALLY happens is my Folder.jpg is deleted, and the embed remains in the m4a!!

totally bizarre. i can repeat it over and over.

what a pita embeds are!

[MrSinatra]

i now have another file, this one a mp3, where the embed simply doesn't delete. (mp3tag deletes it np. winamp did allow me to save it to HD)

[ryerman]

I enjoy Winamp as an audio player. But it is not as robust or powerful when used for tagging.
I rarely, if ever, tag my files with Winamp (including ratings) and definitely not for art.
But I use a plugin (ActiveWinamp) that allows me to send files to other apps, like Mp3tag.

http://forums.winamp.com/showpost.ph...88&postcount=3
http://forums.winamp.com/showpost.ph...98&postcount=7

[MrSinatra]

most of the time winamp tags fine for me, esp txt tags. ratings are also np altho i wish winamp supported half stars. winamp can actually write some mass tag edits quicker than mp3tag.

i don't use embeds so its only a problem when i DL something and come across bizarre issues like this.

[Aminifu]

I only use embedded artwork and images that I embed myself. I thoroughly vet every audio file I download for structural and tag errors and remove any embedded artwork it came with. The few minutes per file this process takes has been time well spent for me. Any file I can't fix, I delete and look for another source of the music.

It took awhile to gather and learn the software tools in my 'toolbox'. That was also time well spent since I now rarely come across an audio file I can't fix relatively quickly.

I used to use other apps for the embedding, but I've been using thinktink's plug-in for Winamp (to add or remove embedded art seen by Winamp's input plug-ins) for a few years now without any issues.

I keep all new files (I create or download) separate from my permanent collection until I've checked them out. Now that I'm retired, I devote a few hours each week to this process. This allows me to enjoy my permanent collection without unexpected file related issues popping up.

It would be nice if Winamp could handle everything (or fix things) on its own, but I don't think I'll live long enough to see that happen.