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Old 23rd November 2005, 20:32   #1
sc_bond
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Meda library plug-in for new sony walkman

Hi, i got a new Sony NW-A3000 on the 9/11/05 but the software was so slow and disappointing that i just had to take it back! I've now set out to make a plug-in like the ipod support plug-in and the gUSB plug-in so that i can use the walkman with winamp. So far i only have a rough idea of how Sony Connect player and the new walkman's work, i haven't the slightest clue how to make a plug-in or write codes etc.

Just about anyone with any knowledge on making a simple plug-in please reply. So far i think that connect player makes a temporary copy of a song and converts it to atrac3 and then i think it re-names it and places it into a certain folder. If you can help but need to know the folder or the way in which the copies are placed onto the mp3 player and re-named then i can tell you this weekend, i will be getting a new one that also hopefully is black and works without freezing!

Thank you in advance to anyone that can help!
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Old 24th November 2005, 04:09   #2
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Due to the nature of Sony products, formats and protections involved you are limited to using the Sonic Stage software that comes with the program. ATRAC3 is a really protected format by Sony. The best recommendation is to actually avoid Sony products. And do you really want to support a company that installs root kits on people's computers?

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Old 24th November 2005, 15:58   #3
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ooo yes cos root kits turn me on! lol! but really, it's sony connect not sonic stage, i need to know how to code a device support like gUSB and how to make it rename the files appropriately, it doesn't necessarily need to be converted to atrac3 as the new walkman supports mp3 and wma. anyone that significantly helps goes into the credits!
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Old 26th December 2005, 10:27   #4
otiasj
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Yeah well are you sure this support mp3,
I have Nw A1000 and I can't get it to just send mp3, it always get reencoded to omg format.
My guess is that sony is just applying a conversion from mp3 to atrac3 and claim that it's support mp3.
I would be happy to help, I have worked on the wombat share pluggin library, but I am not sure this is feasible
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Old 26th December 2005, 20:09   #5
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To use MP3 files on your new walkman go on Connect player and plug in the device and then on the device's options select to use MP3 files instead of OMA. This can also be done in SonicStage.
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Old 27th December 2005, 00:54   #6
otiasj
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I am sorry but I cannot find this option, could you be a little more specific please?
Thank you very much for your help.
In the transfer option I only have "atrac audio device"
(I am using sonicstage as connect player is not useable)

How do you tell that it's really using mp3 instead of atrac?
I suppose you go to explorer and browse your device and get .mp3 files? I only get .oma files
Thanks again for your help

If as you told It's only a matter of renaming then doing a pluggin should be fairly simple

See ya
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Old 27th December 2005, 02:20   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by otiasj
I am sorry but I cannot find this option, could you be a little more specific please?
I don't think this is an option for Sonicstage, but it's been awhile since I've used it.

I used to have a Minidisc player, and you had to convert media files to their proprietary format through Sonicstage. However, the sound quality wasn't that good (basically, you're compressing an already compressed file), and it just didn't sound that good (with the exception being classical music, for some interesting reason that I never understood.)

I'd still be using it if there was a plug-in for Winamp, so I'll be watching this with some interest...
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Old 27th December 2005, 10:03   #8
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When you plug in your device it should appear in the device list in SonicStage. Then do the following: Tools>Options>Transfer and then select the ATRCA Audio Device and press "Transfer Settings...". A box titled "Transfer Mode Settings" should appear and you can selet to transfer in the original file format, including WMA with the new firmware update.

To see which file types you already have on your device select it on the device listy and check the formats. An easy way to do this is to add Format as a column. To do that see View. You can also do this for your library window, just see View and select the different columns.

You should also be able to tell what format you are transferring. If a track takes a long time to transfer or if you already transferred and it took a very long time then your files are converting. During a transfer you can see whether it is converting or just transferring in the satus bar.

For Connect player, plug in your device and select it from the list, right-click and then select options and carry on from there to change transfer modes.
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Old 27th December 2005, 10:08   #9
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By the way, if you go to explorer and check the format you will still get .oma files with code names in code named folders, this happens so that the player can read the files and also ofcourse to stop piracy. This is the very thing I was thinking of working on to create a plug-in for Winamp but since I don't have much time at all and now use SonicStage I don't think there is much point.
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Old 28th December 2005, 00:30   #10
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Yeah ok thank you for your help,
I was indeed transfering in mp3 format, but that still is taking too much time to my taste.
I mean what's the point of having to wait in front of your pc every morning to get your mp3 transfered.
Better have a 30g with all your music already on it, or have a nano or shuffle that can transfert music really fast.

I think that the fact that all the headers are reformated by sony would prevent us from coding our own pluggin.
Like I said "direct mp3" is bullshit, they are just using the mp3 compression but the headers are different. They just invented a new format that's all...
I will never buy sony walkman again, for the one I have now it probably will go on ebay tonight.
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Old 28th December 2005, 09:28   #11
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Wait man, Nanos and iPods aren't quicker they're the same speed. What walkman is it, how much music you transferring and what bitrate is it all?
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Old 29th December 2005, 05:02   #12
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I had an ipod that got stolen,
with ml_ipod transferring my mp3 to the ipod was not taking much more time than a simple usb transfert.
now with sonicstage it takes approximately twice the time (I let him decide the type of tranfert)
with Connect Player it took me around 3hours to fill my entire 5g players nw a1000. Just to find out that you cant use the beat detection feature unless the songs were encrypted from cd or bought in ATRAC format.
yeah right, like I am going to reencode my 300 cds just for sony's walkman.

plus certain files won't be transfered :
if I specify convert to atrac it says "error tranfering files : ... no rights",

and if I let him choose between mp3 or atrac, for some file I get "could not transfer following files : " (nice cryptic message btw)
I got this type of error for a few tracks regardless of the source (meaning in the same album encoded from the same cd some tracks can not be transfered)

But you are right sonicstage is usable if you don't need much features. (It's not like you can plan to use it for anything else than transfering to device)

I wouldn't go as far as calling connect Player a "bad software" as it doesn't qualify for the term software ;-)
Anyway, better not call him at all. But I feel really bad for people who bought sony's player and don't know much about computers. They will need to go to forum and such just to learn to use sonicstage and not the given software.
for example my father as really limited knowledge about computers(email and simple browsing) I am not going to advice him to buy a sony.
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Old 30th December 2005, 00:32   #13
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The encryption that sonicstage uses to put the oma wrappers on mp3s has already been cracked by xispe on the ATRACLife forums. He has written software that will decrypt tracks from the walkman and copy them back onto your computer as mp3s.

Once xispe manages to reverse the algorithm to convert mp3 to oma and put the music onto the walkman, hopefully it should be relativly simple to translate the code into a winamp plugin.

The thread is here -- http://www.atraclife.com/index.php?showtopic=369
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Old 30th December 2005, 09:13   #14
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Whoot nice!
Looking into it right know thanks for the heads up maybe I won't have to get rid of my player after all
:-)
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Old 30th December 2005, 12:49   #15
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By the way, if you transfer a song to your walkman in ATRAC3 and it says "Cannot be transferred, no rights" it means that the song your trying to transfer is DRM protected. If the track was bought from the iTunes store you can only copy the track to an iPod.

kmw, thanks so much, the thread on ATRACLife was right under my nose the whole time. I will get in touch with the creater of that software to see what help he can provide with making a Winamp plug-in possible and hopefully it will make transfers a bit faster.
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Old 31st December 2005, 03:21   #16
otiasj
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I only have mp3 since I encoded most of them from cd's so I doubt that I have any copyright registered music.
(encoded with audiograbber freeware)
Well anyhow I am using sonicstage but to bad artist link is not working. After reading forums it turns out that to use artist link you have to use connect player and leave it plugged for a very long time (300 songs = 1 night) so that it can connect to internet and make the links.
Still there is tracks I can't transfer using connect player.
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Old 1st January 2006, 13:40   #17
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I noticed that you posted a link on ATRACLife to instructions on how to get MP3 File Manager and artist links to work with the NW-A# series, does that method still require you to connect for all those hours? I have 1800+ tracks and that number is still growing at a fast pace, waiting for hours on end to complete 300 songs seems pointless to me.

Anyway, I have been in touch with xipse, creator of GYM software on ATRACLife and I am closer to making the plug-in. Now knowing that the plug-in is possible and that the codes on the HDD Walkmans has been sussed, all I have to do is learn how to write information into Microsoft Visual from scratch. The same as always goes, any serious help (in other words, if you teach me) then you will be in the credits for the plug-in and I will be asking you for help on further versions.
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Old 1st January 2006, 14:49   #18
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sc_bond: Ill help you develop the plugin although I'm learning myself. I havn't written a plugin before but I have some experience with Delphi and C# programming. I think it would be best if we did it in Delphi since there is a Winamp SDK for Delphi here and I dont think there is one for C#. Pascal code used by Delphi is very similar to the C# of GYM so it shouldnt be to difficult to translate.

Grab yourself the freebie personal editions of Visual C# and Borland Delphi, go through some tutorials on the net and see what you think..
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Old 1st January 2006, 15:12   #19
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Thanks very much, we must hurry as I have just found out that someone on ATRACLife community forums found out about my intention to make the plug-in and he is attempting it himself, luckily he is alone and I have help. kmw, if you have a hotmail address then send it me in a private message and I will add you to msn messenger if you wish.
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Old 1st January 2006, 15:25   #20
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Why dont we join him and do it together?

It wouldnt let me send you a PM, you could try and send me your address.
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Old 4th January 2006, 00:47   #21
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The better way of doing this pluggin is making a branch out of ml_ipod,
that way you would have all the code in winamp for sorting and displaying songs, resizing windows etc... otherwise you would have to recode everything wich is very time consuming as I found out when working on wombatshare.
what you want to do is checkout latest version of ml_ipod and apply modification only where needed.
Otherwise it will be a loooonnnng time until we can have anything working.
Personnaly I use visual studio 6 and code plugins in C.

to sc_bond: the poing of letting your device plugged with connect player is to let it scan your music to find matching artist links. But I found out that it's not very accurate and not very usefull(browsing music on the NWA1000 is slowwwwww) so for now I am sticking with sonicstage and play all function.

By the way does any of you have the full description of the network walkman folders/files/file format ?
That should be your starting point, before trying to write any plugin for winamp, just code a simple program that can write the base tree directory from console (no need for gui)

once you have that :
second point is to read available info from device, (read tree directory) again a simple program from console should be enough. (just reading and printing to output is enough, no need for data structure yet)

when you have that, you can start worrying about winamp and adding cool display functions and use the artist/album/song data structure available.

Please tell me where are you at right now and I will consider joining the team.
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Old 4th January 2006, 15:16   #22
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Myself and kmw have sdks for making media library plug-ins so most of it is a template. We need to work out how to wrap mp3 and wma as a oma file with a code name and so far the only way I can think of doing this is by following the pattern given by GYM created by xipse. I would be happy for you to join us as three is better than two and will hopefully make the plug-in better in the future.
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Old 4th January 2006, 17:25   #23
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Thanks for the advice otiasj but unfortunatly I do not know C or C++ and I think that a lot of the code in ml_ipod will be highly specialised, however I will try to take a look at it before I go any further. If it turns out to be better that way I could maybe learn C as I go along. Is it a lot different from C# or Pascal?

Im currently in the very early, 'just figuring things out' stage.
I've used the sample media library plugin from the Delphi SDK as a base, this gives me the media library views and skinning code. From there I have written a procedure to detect which drive the walkman is on and I am currently trying to figure out the structure of the walkmans database to import the list of songs which are on the walkman into winamp. I am doing this by inspecting the GYM source and by trial and error. However GYM seems to extract the list of songs in a very complex way so it is proving difficult.

If you could help out that would be great.
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Old 5th January 2006, 00:38   #24
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Ok,
I have not used pascal for a long time but from what I can remember you could not use pointer or classes.
c# is not bad, actually it's not very different from c++ with a lot of simplifications that make it easier to use.
I would choose c#.(that is assuming we can use it to code plugin for winamp, I have never see a sample in c# for winamp)
Does the sdk you are referring to contain a media library pluggin with artist/album view? because of course a simple skinned list is the basic.
the sdk you are talking about is the delphi sdk?
because last time I checked the winamp sdk had only a simple view sample in it.

Last edited by otiasj; 5th January 2006 at 01:09.
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Old 5th January 2006, 19:02   #25
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So is this plugin going to work for the flash based players as well? I got my wife a NW-E307 and I would really love to be able to dump songs on it w/ winamp. I think I would even pay for it. I have 10K songs and so sonic stage brings my entire computer to its knees, even though winamp has no problem with it. I wish I had some hardcore programing experience so I could help out with this project, but if you need any sort of testing or file structure info for the NW-E307 let me know.
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Old 5th January 2006, 20:08   #26
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The Delphi SDK sample does only have a simple media view.
There is the start of a C# SDK here but there is no media library sample in it yet.

I think GYM and therefore this plugin (eventually) should work with the flash players.
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Old 6th January 2006, 00:41   #27
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Ok so basically we would have to recode the artist/genre view all over again (as well as multiple device plugged etc...):-(
That's why I think we should make a branch of ml_ipod and modify it.
Since the sdk does not have artist/genre, I don't really see the point in using pascal...
Because recoding the gui for winamp takes so much time, you have to do everything manually(displaying 3 list instead of 1, adding separators, resize events, building the 3 lists by sorting the data, adding selection events etc...) All this as to be done manually as there is at this point no api for this.
I have done it once so I still have some code for it but it's still bugged and I don't think we should be wasting time on recoding this.
That is why I think we should concentrate on decoding the dir tree and then make a port of ml_ipod.

I have started looking at gym code and it's very well commented so this should not take to long to understand.


I will keep you posted,
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Old 6th January 2006, 17:34   #28
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Ok, thats fine by me otiasj, it just means that I'm gonna have to learn a new language at the same time. I tend to pick things up pretty quickly though so I'll cope.
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Old 10th January 2006, 08:42   #29
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:-/
I have started to read through gym and ported to C the util.cs file (not much done heh)

From what I understood from the Gym source code, he build is song list by reading the mp3 tags directly from the file, and not by reading the sony descriptor files. Maybe I am wrong, I will check more carefully tomorrow.
But if this is the case it means that we do not have the sony library format and building them to send mp3 will be a bit tricky I think.
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Old 18th January 2006, 15:09   #30
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Hi there, I've been following this thread for a while and was just wondering if any progress has been made since the last post?

I found this link talking about the Sony Network Walkman NW-S23 MP3 File Storage method if it helps at all?

http://www.livejournal.com/users/waider/415461.html

It may be similar to the NW - A####?
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Old 19th January 2006, 00:06   #31
otiasj
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Hum very nice link indeed,
from there I went to waiber's website, which contains a lot of code for the walkman,
any sony walkman version "should" use the same mp3 format...
(artist link appart)
I don't have much time to work on this so I have been making very little progress,
But if the library's waiber wrote work correctly, I will make an effort to port them to winamp.
Will keep everyone updated
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Old 2nd February 2006, 09:32   #32
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Hello everyone,
Here is an update on the current development,
I have coded a plugin that :
- can detect several sony player
- add them to the winamp device list
- you can browse the content in artist/album view
- you can play the files from the device (only tested with mp3 sent from sonicstage, it probably wont work with atrac files)

Bugs :
- will probably not work for atrac files (please test if you can)
- will probably get strange problems if using atrac & mp3 files on the same device(please test if you can)
- will not detect the players if they are plugged in and winamp is already running
- Year information is not available yet
- length information is sometime bugged (getting the wrong length)

As foreseen, I don't have enough information about the format to send files to the device.
For what I know no one as successfully sent any files to their device without using connect player or sonic stage.
The library coded by waider is using the old format, so I was not able to use it.

The source code is not ready to be released yet.
The current plugin version is in attachement
unzip it in your "C:\Program Files\Winamp\Plugins" directory

This is an alpha version so DO NOT try it if you are unsure of what you are doing, you have been warnned I won't be held responsible for any data you may loose in the process (nothing to report so far )


I am also looking for a nice name for this...
Please post comments, bug report, propositions, only on this thread
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Old 2nd February 2006, 10:44   #33
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ok i will test it. what do you think of "ml_sony" or "ml_walkman"
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Old 2nd February 2006, 11:03   #34
glop
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ok i tested with a Sony NW E407 (1GB)

The device is reconized, media library is seen but....lot of bugs ( of course its a 0.1 version )


when you clic on read or enqueue, nothing happening "E:\OMGAUDIO\10F00\10000004.OMA" not read not enqueue MP3 or attrac, nothing
>download is not available
>send to..not implemented huhuhu

when you clic on configuration it crash !

the first step of reconition and database is done. great, congratulation. Now we are such unpatient to see all!
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Old 2nd February 2006, 11:41   #35
will
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Hopefully at some point in the future, you will be able to make a pmp_walkman.dll plugin, to integrate it into winamp 5.2 and better directly.

The pmp API makes developing a portable device plugin really simple - i did the creative neo jukebox pmp plugin in less than 2 days.

Hopefully soon.

DO NOT PM ME WITH TECH SUPPORT QUESTIONS
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Old 2nd February 2006, 12:40   #36
otiasj
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For configuration it doesn't crash,
there is just no configuration available yet
just press enter and the window should get away (should have put an ok button :P )

For the name I was thinking too about ml_sony, let's see if we have any other propositions.

glop:
Strange for me it works when I press enqueue or play the file gets in the playlist and winamp read it.
can you do a simple test for me, go to the "E:\OMGAUDIO\10F00\10000004.OMA" directory and try to play one of the file with winamp (if you could post one in here I could test it too )

well the pmp_plugin is the goal, but for now I need to take a closer look to the header file to understand what needs to be done. Is the creative neo jukebox format open?

Please keep me updated with bugs and everything, this is very helpfull
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Old 2nd February 2006, 12:40   #37
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will > wooo yeehaa so great amazing news !!!

2 questions :
-does support the api a direct read/enqueue/download from pmp function ? (in other words would it be possible to do that ?)
-are the videos including in all ml_pmp plugins ? (zen vision:m , ipod video, iriver ...)
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Old 3rd February 2006, 13:01   #38
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gonna test tonight on a nw-e307 (1 gig flash)

congrats on getting this far guys...
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Old 7th February 2006, 13:03   #39
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Tested on NW-HD5

OK. Tried this plugin last night.

I can see the media library ok, but the files don't play...

Any other tests you want me to do, let me know.

N
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Old 8th February 2006, 16:21   #40
boerner
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I think this is a great idea you guys got here. I have a sony mz-dh710 hi-md player, which supports native mp3 playback. What are the chances of this plugin working for such a device ?
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