Old 3rd May 2004, 01:00   #1
Veej007
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open ml from main windowshade

there's currently no way to access the media library from windowshade mode in classic skins.

i've asked about the feasibility of a "launch ml on classic windowshade visualization doubleclick" option and been told that it will not happen (though i can't understand why not).

well, how about an option to tie the "open" button (eject icon) to the media library? i always work from the media library now instead of clunking about in explorer, and i'd think that many other winamp users do the same.
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Old 3rd May 2004, 01:04   #2
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Just hit Alt-L, or you can even bind a global hotkey to it too. Plus you can always access it through the main menu.

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Old 3rd May 2004, 03:49   #3
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BUT I AM TOO LAZY TO RIGHT-CLICK TO GET THE MEDIA LIBRARY! I THINK IT WOULD BE EASIER FOR NULLSOFT TO CHANGE THE WINAMP CODE TO ACCOMODATE ME!
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Old 3rd May 2004, 04:00   #4
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whatever, i get this shit every time i ask about it and it always seems like nullsoft is more worried about preserving skin compatibility than maximizing functionality. i wouldn't care if the modern skin weren't so fugly.

and honestly, with so many quicker ways to get your shit into winamp, does anyone actually use the "open" button anymore?
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Old 3rd May 2004, 04:03   #5
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Alright..... the majority of winamp users don't seem to have a problem with it, but you do. I dunno about you, but I'd try to please the majority, and not try to please a single user.

<edit>
I seriously think it's time for you to stop being lazy, and just Right-Click -> Media Library.
</edit>
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Old 3rd May 2004, 04:08   #6
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i'm just trying to give feedback. i was the only one bitching about play counts back in november, too.

also, a standard principle of gui design involves having crucial functions at the top level. every nested hierarchical level complicates use. can you imagine using winamp if every operation involved something like right click==>main window functions==>playback controls==>next track? that's an extreme example, of course, but i'm just trying to illustrate...
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Old 3rd May 2004, 04:28   #7
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Try this:

Under preferances > Media library
Library options tag.
Check "Main window lightning bolt opens library instead of about box"
thats the closes you would get to having a button on the main window.

They would not add another button as that would make the hundereds of classic skins at out there incompatiable.

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Old 3rd May 2004, 04:49   #8
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@Sanosuke
topic: open ml from main windowshade

@Veej007
"there's currently no way to access the media library from windowshade mode in classic skins."

Drewbar has given you 3 different methods of accessing the ml from main winshade.
We are sorry to hear that none of them meet your approval.
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Old 3rd May 2004, 04:56   #9
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RIGHT-CLICK -> MEDIA LIBRARY!

Now please, shut up and go away.
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Old 3rd May 2004, 05:02   #10
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@sanosuke
Quote:
seems like nullsoft is more worried about preserving skin compatibility than maximizing functionality


@egg

Quote:
a standard principle of gui design involves having crucial functions at the top level. every nested hierarchical level complicates use. can you imagine using winamp if every operation involved something like right click==>main window functions==>playback controls==>next track? that's an extreme example, of course, but i'm just trying to illustrate...
there are already three functionally redundant buttons, a space for a skinner's logo, and a useless visualization on an interface that is supposedly designed to maximize spacial efficiency but can't even manage to display the currently playing song without a second window open.

winamp is still way better than anything else on the market, free or not, but i find it annoying that nullsoft insists on putting out a functionally neutered product for the sake of bitmap collections that are four and five years old and being gradually abandoned in favor of wasabi-based interfaces (all of which i have found to have hideously bloated windowshades)

plus, if it's a trivial concern, why was the modern skin adapted to include a library button? the only major differences between the classic and modern windowshades are the window settings controls and the addition of those two buttons.

compatibility concerns didn't halt the introduction of gen_bmp or video support. i guess this has turned into more of a general gripe than the original niggling little windowshade whining, but at what point does the current product become more important than the past one?

Last edited by Veej007; 3rd May 2004 at 05:20.
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Old 3rd May 2004, 05:09   #11
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@Drunken Master
Quote:
RIGHT-CLICK -> MEDIA LIBRARY!

Now please, shut up and go away.
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Old 3rd May 2004, 05:19   #12
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It can't be modified because it will break the entire classic skin database. Yes, that's how important it is.

gen.bmp was a new addition to the classic skin which didn't break any already exisiting templates. But modifying the main winshade template will break them all.

We'll consider adding it if YOU are prepared to be the one who fixes all the thousands of classic skins.

And that is the way that it is. Capiche?

If right click -> media library, or Alt+L, or using a global hotkey is too painful for you, then sorry, but it's just tough shit.
And note: not EVERY function requires right click access, just THIS one!
The ML plugin didn't exist until v2.90.
And these are the ONLY possible ways of accessing it in classic winshade mode.

Re: modern skins
There's plenty of modern skins available with winshades just as small and compact as the classic winshade. You've obviously not looked hard enough.
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Old 3rd May 2004, 05:22   #13
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right, but i'm not suggesting a media library button. i'll grant you the compatibility argument, but i don't see why functionality of the gui can't change. doing something like mapping the eject button to a plugin window instead of an explorer dialog wouldn't break any compatibility.

can you point me to a few of the skins you're talking about? i swear, i HAVE tried...
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Old 3rd May 2004, 05:29   #14
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if you hop on one foot, fuck a duck, drink bleach, while gargling I wish I was a oscar myer weener and stabbing yourself multiple times, it will add a ml button, try it!


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Old 3rd May 2004, 05:29   #15
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Yes, it would be possible. I think in reality though, 90%+ of the winamp users would rather have the eject button used to open files, and not the media library. Please use some common sense, you're asking winamp to be tailored to you, and not the masses. I hope you don't really think Nullsoft would do that....
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Old 3rd May 2004, 05:30   #16
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Quote:
And note: not EVERY function requires right click access, just THIS one!
right, most of them require right click==>options==>preferences==>plugin==>category==>plugin name==>configure
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Old 3rd May 2004, 05:31   #17
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which, i ought to point out, is as it should be, since most of them do their work below the surface and without any user interaction whatsoever after the initial configuration. the media library is definitely an exception to that though.
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Old 3rd May 2004, 05:32   #18
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That was a dumb post
We are comparing main and winshade modes, not Options/Preferences

but yeah, there's actually a few other things missing too, it's been that long since I've used a classic skin.
Funny how no-one ever asked for a PL/EQ/Shuffle/Repeat button in winshade too, lol.

btw, clicking the vis area is for cycling through/toggling the built-in vis (spectrum/oscilloscope/off) and this is NOT going to change. Nothing is going to change, because it can't.
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Old 3rd May 2004, 05:33   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Drunken Master
Yes, it would be possible. I think in reality though, 90%+ of the winamp users would rather have the eject button used to open files, and not the media library. Please use some common sense, you're asking winamp to be tailored to you, and not the masses. I hope you don't really think Nullsoft would do that....
i don't expect that. i'm just saying that with drag-and-drop, automatic file associations, the explorer context menu, and the media library competing with the primitive "open file" dialog as ways to get your shit into winamp, i think you're wrong in your assertion that most users would prefer it the way it is now.

of course, this is all speculation for here on out. an option in the preferences would be nice, though...
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Old 3rd May 2004, 05:35   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Egg
That was a dumb post
We are comparing main and winshade modes, not Options/Preferences
ok, fine. it was irrelevant, but i was hoping you wouldn't be able to see through the panache...
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Old 3rd May 2004, 05:40   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Drunken Master
Yes, it would be possible. I think in reality though, 90%+ of the winamp users would rather have the eject button used to open files, and not the media library. Please use some common sense, you're asking winamp to be tailored to you, and not the masses. I hope you don't really think Nullsoft would do that....
well it can be made an option, though i do not see the reason why can't Veej007 use a mordern skin.

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Old 3rd May 2004, 05:46   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Egg
Funny how no-one ever asked for a PL/EQ/Shuffle/Repeat button in winshade too, lol.
pl: gotta have it open anyway because the main window doesn't show song title*
eq: not needed because presets auto load, nobody in their right mind likes intentionally lopsided balance, and the volume control can be accessed with the scroll wheel.
shuffle and repeat: not needed because of wincue and jtfe

note that these ARE all available in the modern windowshade. OF COURSE they weren't in the original template, because winamp has evolved tremendously since it was first written. nullsoft seems to be responding by limiting classic functions to what the skins already have. i'm suggesting that they ought to consider adapting the skins to the new functions. gen_bmp is a perfect example of them doing exactly that.

* this is understandable if you're trying to minimize space, but vis and logo over title was a bad move in my opinion... bitching about coding decisions from the mid 90s isn't going to get anybody anywhere, though and (contrary to popular opinion, it would seem) i'm talking more about trying to bring the classic skins fully up to speed than about trying to convince anybody to rewrite the template

stagnant is limiting function because of the existing skin database. "90%+" of winamp users i've seen use the default one anyway. progressive would be trying some trickery like hijacking the space currently used by the winshade visualization to add controls for the new functions or classifying the skinner's logo as a button that does something... or any one of a number of other options, really. i agree that doing something like mapping the stop button to the video window (since itunes operates with a single play/pause button, and all that) would be idiotic and way too confusing for most users, but there ARE ways of keeping classic skins fully relevant as winamp grows.

plus, the sooner the updates are made, the sooner they'll be seamlessly co-opted by skinners. nobody wrote gen_bmps until it was actually implemented.

Quote:
btw, clicking the vis area is for cycling through/toggling the built-in vis (spectrum/oscilloscope/off) and this is NOT going to change
fair enough, i don't get to make these decisions, i'm just the lowly end user. writing NOT in big scary caps doesn't mean that the decision makes any more sense, though.

Quote:
Originally posted by sanosuke
well it can be made an option, though i do not see the reason why can't Veej007 use a mordern skin.
yeah, hopefully egg's gonna get back to me with some suggestions

Last edited by Veej007; 3rd May 2004 at 06:02.
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Old 3rd May 2004, 06:04   #23
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WOW...... don't you have anything better to do, than write a book on why you want a button to open the ml in winshade? I think most of us understood that you were retarded by the time we finished reading your first post. I think it's gotten to the point where I actually feel sorry for you.
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Old 3rd May 2004, 06:08   #24
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you are terrible at knowing how to not-care
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Old 3rd May 2004, 06:10   #25
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bind a global hotkey, that's what they're there for. then you don't even have to click to activate winamp.

this was suggested earlier.

as for your suggestion, you are suggesting that you allow people to access the ML with a double-left-click, rather than a right-click then a left-click, which seems like something of a minor alteration. in addition to this, as has been pointed out, when classic skins were originally designed the ML didn't exist, so unfortunately it's just not accomodated.

classic skins are called "classic" for a reason - when they got brought up to speed, they became modern skins

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Old 3rd May 2004, 06:14   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm

classic skins are called "classic" for a reason - when they got brought up to speed, they became modern skins
classic = bitmap
modern = wasabi

the distinction has nothing to do with how functional they are
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Old 3rd May 2004, 06:15   #27
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Old 3rd May 2004, 06:25   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Veej007
classic = bitmap
modern = wasabi

the distinction has nothing to do with how functional they are
modern skins can do almost anything, while classics are limited to the same structure, with the same buttons, with the same functions

so modern skins can be/are more functional than classic skins

There is no reset button on life... but the graphics kick ass
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Old 3rd May 2004, 06:51   #29
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you're absolutely right. in theory, modern skins can be and are much more powerful. in practice, though, the gap is caused in large part by nullsoft's approach to the issue.
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Old 3rd May 2004, 06:55   #30
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what gap? what issue? and what is nullsofts approach to both?

im sorry, but that lost me...

There is no reset button on life... but the graphics kick ass
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Old 3rd May 2004, 16:04   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Veej007
classic = bitmap
modern = wasabi

the distinction has nothing to do with how functional they are
the fact that it's wasabi by definition means it has everything to do with how functional they are, at least in the way you are proposing.

my advice is to download (update if necessary) and use the old wa3 skin.

as you say, your change would make little difference to the actual structure of the skins. it would, however, alter their functionality. it's a minor issue, and one that is largely inconsequential in the long term. why edit a deprecated and stable codebase in order to add a feature that was introduced almost as its replacement was?

as i and others have said, bind a global hotkey if it's really annoying you. it's a needless, unintuitive feature to add, and although some may like it, it's hardly making anything easier. you've quoted a number of paradigms of "good" HCI programming, but most of these rely upon the features being at least marginally intuitive - your proposal wouldn't, and any one that really would would require changing the base template or functionality of the skin, potentially rendering many of the existing skins broken or confusing. is that really a sensible option when a transparent solution to the "problem" has already been provided?

classic skins were never made for the ML. granted, you can bolt it on in various ways, but an argument from HCI principles is not the way to go about this.

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Old 3rd May 2004, 16:35   #32
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i downloaded the winamp3 skin but found that it doesn't have a ml button either. how do i go about updating it if it's been more or less replaced by the 5 modern skin?

Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
as i and others have said, bind a global hotkey if it's really annoying you. it's a needless, unintuitive feature to add, and although some may like it, it's hardly making anything easier. you've quoted a number of paradigms of "good" HCI programming, but most of these rely upon the features being at least marginally intuitive - your proposal wouldn't, and any one that really would would require changing the base template or functionality of the skin, potentially rendering many of the existing skins broken or confusing.
how would this be any less intuitive than the "lightning bolt opens media library" hack? i'd say it makes MORE sense, actually, because the eject symbol signifies "put your songs in this music player" whereas the winamp logo is ambiguous.
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Old 3rd May 2004, 16:40   #33
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you, my friend, are an idiot. Plain and simple.
Quote:
Originally posted by Veej007
volume control can be accessed with the scroll wheel.
If you can scroll a mousewheel you can bing a useless key likef8 toopen the media library. No go away troll. Your not getting your way, nobody here gives two shits what you want, and we'd rather you go use sonique than sit here and bitch about somethign that isn't going to change.
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Old 3rd May 2004, 16:45   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by dlinkwit27
No go away troll.
excuse me, but i think you'll find more examples of mindless drivel from drunken master and yourself than from me.

Quote:
Your not getting your way, nobody here gives two shits what you want, and we'd rather you go use sonique than sit here and bitch about somethign that isn't going to change.
you're probably right that it's not going to change, but that's because it's the coding team's decision, not because my observations are irrelevant.
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Old 3rd May 2004, 16:45   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Veej007
i downloaded the winamp3 skin but found that it doesn't have a ml button either. how do i go about updating it if it's been more or less replaced by the 5 modern skin?
Ok i have done a quick "hack" to the winamp 3 skin, i changed the eject button to the media library button. Veej007 if you want it I can send it to you.

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Old 3rd May 2004, 16:51   #36
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definitely man. private messages?
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Old 3rd May 2004, 23:31   #37
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discussion over, fire extinguished. locked.
pm me reasons to unlock and ill consider it.

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