Old 16th May 2013, 03:52   #1
geiss
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Drum roll please... MD2 is now open source!

Hey all,

I have great news. Thanks mainly to the efforts of Ben Allison at Nullsoft, MilkDrop 2 has, at long last, been open-sourced! (He was also kind enough to allow me to make the announcement here. )

You can grab the source code HERE. It builds in Visual Studio [C++] 2008 or later - just open vis_milk2\milkdrop_DX9.sln, and it should build right away (all dependencies are locally included).

I have to say, it's been absolutely amazing to see what the preset authoring community here has done with MilkDrop 1 and 2... you've made it do things that I never dreamed it could do. I look at some of these presets and they just fill me - and countless others - with awe. I want to thank you all immensely for your critical contributions... just imagine how lame MilkDrop would be if it only included the presets that I originally authored for it!

I'm very excited to see where folks take the source code, and to witness the unlocking of a whole new level of preset awesomeness.

Happy tinkering!

Best regards,
Ryan Geiss
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Old 20th May 2013, 04:44   #2
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Thank you very much for creating it to begin with. There are many nights when work stress has me in a bad place, but milkdrop is always there to relieve that stress. Thanks even more for sharing the code.

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Old 20th May 2013, 21:00   #3
a_guy_called_joe
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Please, use some open source repository

Hi,

these are awesome news. Great to see you making MD2 open source.
But please, use some of the open source providers/portals out there.
Personally, I would like to use github.com - but the choice is up to you.
Using such a platform will make it more transparent and opens up
the ways for the community to work together. Just the .ZIP file is fine,
but on github i can share my pathes and work with others.

Just my 50 cent

Regards
Joe
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Old 21st May 2013, 15:29   #4
geiss
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No worries! I actually posted the MD2 source (properly, I hope) to SourceForge (where you can use git) a few days ago. Here's the project link:

https://sourceforge.net/p/milkdrop2/

From there, click the 'code' tab, and it'll give you the git clone command to pull down the source.

Cheers!
Ryan
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Old 21st May 2013, 15:36   #5
geiss
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Oh, and there's also a README in the 'files' section (of the project page) that explains how to build & run it.

Cheers,
Ryan
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Old 21st May 2013, 15:47   #6
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ryan you're the best!!
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Old 26th July 2013, 04:10   #7
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Well FINALLY! Now I might attempt to rework MilkDrop so it could work better and attempt to contribute...


...but my programming skills are, well I have none... -_-

Never too late to try though right?

HELLO BOYS!!! I'M BAAAAAAACK!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 4th September 2013, 16:31   #8
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Maybe now we can get this working with other players? Like foobar? Or some great open source players like Clementine (uses projectM), VLC (projectM and doesn't have full screen mode), and Media Player Classic?
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Old 4th September 2013, 21:15   #9
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I have just read Your ideas and wishes. Since a very long time the fans want to have Milkdrop 2 also in other media players and on other operation systems. Why not also with the platform-related profile-players in the different browser? There are enough music-platforms with platform-related music-players. If not yet, for now, maybe it could happen in the future. The doors are open, and I can imagine, there are enough people, who have many knowlegdes with computer and software...
I should return to YouTube now and watch the playlists with the very beautiful music-videos in the YouTube-Player...

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Old 4th September 2013, 21:27   #10
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MD2 has already been able to work in foobar2000 and most other players where it was wanted due to bridge plug-ins made for those players to support Winamp vis plug-ins.

the open sourcing of MD2 is no different than what MD1 allowed - if other players don't have native MD support by now, i doubt you're going to see any difference with MD2 (based on what has been seen with the MD1 release and a complete lack of anything showing up in other players since MD2 was open sourced).

open sourcing is incorrectly seen as a super wonderful magical pill to get x into y and z and updated forever - it happens in _some_ cases but not most - same can be said for all of the kickstarter projects (what with that being the current fad at the time).


i'm all for seeing MD2 do well, but it's hard to maintain enthusiasm for it based on what has (or rather more importantly) hasn't happened since it's release (i suppose there might have been some projectM additions from it (not looked) but that had seemed to go off on it's own direction anyway from what i last remember).
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Old 5th September 2013, 11:07   #11
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Quote:
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MD2 has already been able to work in foobar2000 and most other players where it was wanted due to bridge plug-ins made for those players to support Winamp vis plug-ins.

the open sourcing of MD2 is no different than what MD1 allowed - if other players don't have native MD support by now, i doubt you're going to see any difference with MD2 (based on what has been seen with the MD1 release and a complete lack of anything showing up in other players since MD2 was open sourced).

open sourcing is incorrectly seen as a super wonderful magical pill to get x into y and z and updated forever - it happens in _some_ cases but not most - same can be said for all of the kickstarter projects (what with that being the current fad at the time).


i'm all for seeing MD2 do well, but it's hard to maintain enthusiasm for it based on what has (or rather more importantly) hasn't happened since it's release (i suppose there might have been some projectM additions from it (not looked) but that had seemed to go off on it's own direction anyway from what i last remember).
Yea that's understandable.. too bad I can't get MilkDrop working in foobar with the shpeck plugin in Windows 8. What I would really love to see is MilkDrop being built into open source/cross-platform software like VLC and Clementine.
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Old 5th September 2013, 14:16   #12
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Some other YouTube-User were able to get Milkdrop working in foobar2000 and Media Monkey. You can do a search in YouTube with the keyworks "milkdrop foobar" and "milkdrop media monkey". You will be surprised.
I want to give You 2 links now, and in both links You can start the first video. They look very good and I have them in my playlists.
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...be.-SoOFbnMqJM
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...be.Ru3Kdl0YkuU
I myself never want to change the OS and I also never want to have another media player. I know Winamp at best, and I am very satisfied with Winamp...

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Old 5th September 2013, 14:38   #13
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Most of the time I use Linux Mint as I prefer open source software.. but sometimes I use Windows 8.1 and MilkDrop doesn't work with the latest foobar or shpeck plugin... and also obviously doesn't work with open source audio players
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Old 1st December 2013, 22:38   #14
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Ryan, I just wanted to give a sincere thanks for doing this.

Just curious, why did it take so long? People have been begging on here for years. What did you have to do to allow them to release it?

Can you answer before this site goes down in 20 days?
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Old 3rd December 2013, 04:29   #15
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> Ryan, I just wanted to give a sincere thanks for doing this.
> Just curious, why did it take so long? People have been begging on here for years. What did you have to do to allow them to release it?

Sure - this is something I asked for many times, but AOL was generally reluctant to do it, which seemed fairly reasonable as they had one of the most popular visualizers out there, and didn't want to make it too easy for others to clone it.

But after enough time passes (...I added pixel shaders to Milkdrop in 2007, which we then renamed to Milkdrop 2) it's generally not such a big deal, as the technology becomes a bit more dated, and others even have some time to (approximately) clone it.

I was very glad to see them do it before Winamp closed up shop, though, as this way, there is a chance to revive it later - from both the source code and content perspectives.

I'm pretty busy with work right now, but someday I plan to delve back in and write the mother of all visualizers; at that time, it would be a horrible shame if I couldn't reuse all of the outstanding content that was written for MilkDrop.

One thing I've always kicked myself for not doing in 2007 was adding an offscreen buffer (or several) to which you could render extra stuff (invisible to the user). Basically take everything about the a preset as it is today (minus the composite shader) and bundle that all up, and make it render (using the warp shader) to a particular offscreen buffer. Let's call each of these bundles a render target (RT0, RT1, RT2, etc.). You could have up to N of these render targets in an MD3 preset. Then you still have a single composite shader for the preset, and it has access to read the contents of all N render targets, and it writes pixels to the screen. In addition, each RT would be able to read the contents of the other RTs. So, serially in time, rendering a frame would go something like: [render to RT0] [render to RT1] ... [render to last RT] [render to screen]. Of course, in each of these passes, you would have read access to all of the other RTs (except the RT you're currently writing - you can't read and write a texture at the same time), and to the screen (unless you're writing to it). (Note: you could actually allow read/write at the same time, if you double-buffer the textures, but this takes twice the memory.)

This is all actually pretty easy to hook up, but very powerful in practice.

Compatibility is easy: To update an MD2 preset to MD3, just put everything except the composite shader in the RT0 bundle, and then keep the composite shader as-is (but have it read RT0). Done. Now add/edit RT1 - or pull it from an existing MD2 preset (or an RT of an MD3 preset). The hardest part would be coming up with a more sensible name for each of these "bundles".

Other low-hanging fruit is upgrading to DX10 and adding 3D textures and float textures.

Also, importing DXF files (3D models) and then allowing the user to write code to perturb the vertices (or change their colors/alpha), or instance them, would be amazing. The user could even write shaders to light and/or texture the [instanced] models. Heck, these objects could be textured using the contents of the offscreen buffers.

Once you add these features, the sky is basically the limit. None of this should be too hard for a graphics programmer; it's just a matter of finding the time to do it.

I apologize for talking about all of this stuff without actually delivering it... I hope that's not too annoying. But I did want to point out that there is *much* more that could be done. (Hmmm... kickstarter?)

So anyway, as you can see, I've thought a lot about this, but I just haven't had the time to code it. But I hope to do so one of these days. I love music visualizers, and unless I'm hit by a bus, I seriously doubt I'll go my whole life without writing something new, and I'm confident that it would kick the living crap out of Milkdrop... with a lot of love from a community of brilliant preset authors.

Speaking of which... you guys have made Milkdrop so much more than I ever dreamed it could or would be. I really can't thank you all enough. Seriously... I wrote an engine... you guys made it beautiful. I am forever grateful for that.

See you on the interwebs...
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Old 7th December 2013, 00:56   #16
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It's your passion. Stick with it every time life gives you moments to keep at it. Not just for us, for you.

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Old 9th December 2013, 03:56   #17
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Well damn, I got an answer from the man himself. In a day, no less!

Thanks for the reply, I'm going to save that. Great info!

Have you looked at Plane9 or vsxu? I have them downloaded, but haven't gotten around to running them yet.
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Old 1st January 2014, 18:42   #18
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You are all Awasome and MD3 sounds I n c r e d i b l e
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Old 6th January 2014, 15:30   #19
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Dear Mr. Geiss, when the Mother of All Visualizers becomes a reality, please make sure it is virtual as well. (read: Oculus Rift) Some guys have got it working already, albeit a bit broken and incomplete.

http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comme...on_the_oculus/

http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comme...splay_winamps/
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Old 9th March 2014, 06:44   #20
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to all the nay Sayers about open source need i remind you that win amp is DEAD there is no saving it or fixing it at this stage unless they are planing a total rewrite witch isn't gonna happen
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Old 22nd August 2014, 00:39   #21
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..win amp is DEAD there is no saving it or fixing it at this stage unless they are planing a total rewrite witch isn't gonna happen
Luckily there are other ways.. but don't expect it to be something it isn't. Meaning, there won't be any boom like 10 years ago, that's impossible, "the thing" now is mobile -and maybe wearable-, so Winamp for desktop has some kind of freedom to stay as it is -the best music player ever- and maybe add slowly whatever features the other Winamp's could need..

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Old 22nd August 2014, 00:52   #22
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winamp doesn't need more fuctionality it needs less
I want what winamp was originally ment to be a lama-whipping audio player
AiMP does everything winamp 5 did with better audio quality and less memory/cpu usage
it also supports a fair amount of winamp plugins there isn't a whole lot the new team can do to winamp to save it to much time has passed and to much 'free' competition
Aimp does everything winamp pro 5 does and it does it better
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Old 22nd August 2014, 01:06   #23
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then you should use AIMP and let those of us who want to keep using Winamp to use it as we want to do so. does that sound fair enough? as the last i checked, AIMP keeps adding things and doing what you're saying Winamp shouldn't do... talk about double-standards.

and i would love to see data to prove your audio-quality statement since if the foobar2000 author says there's no tangible difference between it and Winamp when using the same output method, i find it hard to believe your statement (and i noticed no difference the last time i tried AIMP).

either way, you should use what you want to use (which seems to be AIMP) and those who want to use something else (be that Winamp, VLC, foobar2000, MPC, etc etc) should be able to do just so without being bashed / forced into using something they a) don't like, b) don't want and / or c) don't care for (as the tone of your last few posts has been). and just because Winamp is dead to you (and using a Winamp clone with limited Winamp plug-in support) is what you want to do, that doesn't mean those of us who still prefer Winamp cannot use that.

[edit]
and that screenshot is a poor representation of things as it shows that AIMP hasn't bothered to do a simple thing of adding the Winamp skinned window api support (which i find disturbing for a player which is so heavily skin based) which is something that goes back to Winamp 2.9x over a decade ago... and as for the memory usage, my development install is usually running around 40MB (depending on what i'm doing and the size of the library, etc loaded)
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Old 22nd August 2014, 01:25   #24
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the difference is that AiMP adds functionality without breaking something else or causing untold overhead it also has a level of polish that winamp started to lose by the time AOL walked away from cockpit and left it in a death spiral winamp needs to lose about 200lbs of dead weight and get back into lama-whipping shape
I used win-amp from 2004 to 2011 and I was one of the last people to abandon ship simply because I could not find a suitable replacement

You have a long road ahead of you of undoing feature-creep and fixing years of neglect and spotty programming nothing would make me happier then to see winamp make a come-back

but I guess my real problem is WHATS the point and wheres the money in it ? unless you have some KILLER-INNOVATIVE Feature planned then as a commercial product you have no "value" the player-wars ended years ago and winamps formerly impressive library of skins and plugin's isn't nearly as cool as it was ~5 years ago
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Old 22nd August 2014, 01:29   #25
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nothing would make me more happier than people spelling the product name correctly. (seriously what is with the "win-amp" thing - it's never been spelt like that, i can just about deal with the old WinAMP and WinAmp spellings that people keep using, but "win-amp" )

and for the record, a number of the points you raise were already begun being addressed as part of the work that was put in last year with the 5.63-5.66x releases to start removing things that slow it down, etc. and if you'd read posts in the news thread after calling it all pointless and Winamp is dead, you'll see how certain areas in performance have been increased in the development builds without too much effort which make it far closer to a 2.x setup).

either way, there's little point in trying to discuss things further as i'm set in my ways (and usage and affinity to Winamp which out-stretches the timescale that you used it) and so are you with your views on Winamp vs AIMP and what is better for your needs from a player.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 01:38   #26
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my views are based on experience and I am not the only one that views Winamp as tarnished
that being said .. Time will tell won't it best of luck ill be one of the first people to try a new version when it becomes available ..
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Old 22nd August 2014, 15:49   #27
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As a former user of AIMP who's used it since the early days of its 2.x versions, my views are more or less the opposite on that lol. I used AIMP for over 2 years as my main player for the longest time because almost non of my music had any tags to them (just artist- title in the filename), so a full fledged library with details was overkill for me, since i had nothing to populate those spaces with. (Add to that the unbelievably annoying tag guessing Winamp does that messes up stuff made using Winamps library impossible for me)

Now however the majority of my music has proper+coverart tags to them (thanks to the now defuct Autotagger feature, which was what made me use Winamp in the first place), and its madness for me to even imagine going back to the basic playlist based AIMP.

-There is no proper media library to speak of in AIMP, its like an unwanted afterthought.
-There is no song queuing.
-Since it relies on a playlist to store your music, if you loose/clear/close the playlist tab, youve lost all your playcounts and ratings.
-Half of all AIMP skins dont even have a search functionality in them! Come on this one just grinds my gears to the point of insanity Dx

Its basically a super prettied up version of the old Winamp 2.xx series.


AIMP has a great skinning engine, its what made it so attractive for me (plus it was pretty much the only player that didnt taunt me for not having tags) but aside from that, its just too basic, even the AIMP developers know this and theyre adding more features to make it more full. AIMP is just a mature version of Winamp 2.


For the current generation of users that download their music off youtube rippers and have nothing but filenames to their music, yeah players like AIMP are a godsend, but when you want to manage your music like having the ability to sort stuff by artist, playcount, rating etc... Its time to move up to a real player like Winamp (or if for some reason you have prejudice against Winamp, you can always go the MusicBee route, its another player thats following the footsteps of Winamp)

*If you have issues with Winamp, ensure you have the currently latest version Winamp v5.666 build 3516 & its patches that fix several issues
*To remove the currently dead Winamp online stuff, see here: removing online stuff
*If you miss the Autotag feature: Gracenote CDDB Autotag alternatives
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Old 22nd August 2014, 18:16   #28
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... (Add to that the unbelievably annoying tag guessing Winamp does that messes up stuff made using Winamps library impossible for me)
...
You can turn off Winamp's tag (metadata) guessing. That feature tries to get info from what's provided in a file's name when it's not provided within the file itself. Look on the General Preferences - Media Library - Local Library Watch Folders tab in the Metadata Readings Settings configure dialog.

The currently non-functional auto-tagging feature (formerly supported by Gracenote) is a separate feature. It used an online database of info provided to Gracenote by individual users.

The accuracy of both methods depended on the accuracy of the source info.

Winamp's media library is designed around metadata. Accurate comprehensive metadata is essential to fully using the library as intended. That's why metadata guessing (using a file's name) for use by the library is the default option. Winamp also supports the user adding metadata directly to a file's library database record (via the <Shift+E> tag editor), if the file's format doesn't support adding tags to the file itself (via the <Alt+3> tag editor) or the user doesn't want tags in the file itself.

Using Winamp can be frustrating until you learn what it is designed to do and how to control it. It can be setup as a simple basic player or as a comprehensive player and media manager or somewhere in between.

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Old 23rd August 2014, 04:07   #29
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I find it a bit humorous that people will complain about heavy computer programs (I'm sorry, "apps") in this day and age. "OMGzers!, it takes x megs of memory!!onehundredeleven!!!" in a time where memory is insanely inexpensive and measured in multiple gigs.

I've been a DJ since June of 1992 (in addition to my day job). A lot has changed in how I do the job, but most of those changes happened between the time I started in '92 and the time I discovered WinAMP (sorry, I still love that spelling/meaning!). Once I learned about the ability to use a laptop running this program instead of carrying several insanely heavy cases of vinyl records and CDs, I never looked back.

I just did a middle school dance last night as a matter of fact (odd for Thursday night, I know). I used Winamp. Stock crossfader, Jump-to-File, Media Library, Milkdrop (wait a sec, yeah, I think this thread was about Milkdrop, wasn't it?), playlist undo, and really not much more.

I'm not a power user, and it doesn't take a power user to get hundreds of people in a single room to love what Winamp does for them to the point of screaming their favorite lyrics when the songs blast out of the speakers. They all come to me and ask how I put the trippy dancing colors on the wall (Milkdrop on a simple teacher's projector), and they love how instantaneously I can find and cue up their requested song. Hell, Winamp had instant indexed search before Windows did. A bit different from looking up the song in a binder, then thumbing through cases of albums, then dealing with scratched removable media.

Furthermore, there are far more uses at home and office that are too numerous to list but easy to use; stuff you can't really get in another player.

It just doesn't make sense for us llamas to agree that any other player is a better choice when it clearly fits our needs so perfectly when another player does not. Perhaps the non-llamas don't see it that way, and that's fine, but we like what we have and can't seem to find it elsewhere.

Anyway, many thanks from literally hundreds of middle school kids for Winamp and especially Milkdrop. Their dance is one they absolutely loved, and they raised over $1,700.00 in door charges and concession food profits for their 8th grade trip.

Don't forget to live before you die.
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Old 23rd August 2014, 15:03   #30
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It just doesn't make sense for us llamas to agree that any other player is a better choice when it clearly fits our needs so perfectly when another player does not. Perhaps the non-llamas don't see it that way, and that's fine, but we like what we have and can't seem to find it elsewhere.

Anyway, many thanks from literally hundreds of middle school kids for Winamp and especially Milkdrop. Their dance is one they absolutely loved, and they raised over $1,700.00 in door charges and concession food profits for their 8th grade trip.
That's a great testimonial, swingdjted!

I enjoy trying to help people get Winamp to fit their needs. But many have become spoiled and can't be bothered with changing defaults. If the out-of-the-box experience doesn't 'rock their boat' they just move on or complain. That's a shame because they're missing out on the most versatile media player/manager available.

I have almost 600 Milkdrop presets in my permanent collection. Since I can't decide which ones I like best, I have the visualizer set to run thru them all randomly, changing every 20 seconds. They are a tremendous complement to the music (when you can take the time, or have the opportunity, to watch them).

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Old 23rd August 2014, 15:45   #31
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@swingdjted: Aaahhh that really is a nice story, I always kind of wanted to do some DJ'ing with Winamp + Milkdrop..
Here, a small city from a small country, doing such a thing can be kind of ultra-cool, even thought it is stupidly easy to do (I still don't understand why local "DJ's" only use some pre-loaded video queue -most of the time it's not even "the video" of the song- and can't really attach image to music..).

And I couldn't agree more with your first words about memory usage. I honestly feel Winamp sometimes eats too much RAM, I struggled with it some time, but as I was able to get better PCs (which were only a logical thing to do, I'm a designer!) the problem slowly fade away.
Eventually came to understand that all good programs in PC will use a lot of RAM for the simple reason that it is designed to do an incredible amount of things: Right now my Firefox eats a lot of my memory but I wouldn't strip it down, not a bit, if it means I have to lose some functionality.
In fact, the way I see the future of PCs (laptop and desktops), "lightweight soft" as a virtue won't have much sense because most PCs are already powerful, and the average user will have a PCs to do precisely "heavy stuff": Pro stuff like video editing, graphic / web design, sound engineering and so, code development, loads of office work, among other and also the more "casual" users looking for ultra-capable Media centers being able to connect it to anything in a house, being from old one decade stereos or from anything from the next 10 years of devices.

So, designing a powerful and complete program to use less resources can be potentially pointless; Having it fine-tuned to handle better the available memory is one thing, but striping it down to make it lighweight is almost a nonsense nowadays..

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Old 23rd August 2014, 17:50   #32
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...

And I couldn't agree more with your first words about memory usage. I honestly feel Winamp sometimes eats too much RAM, ...
The only time I see Winamp's memory usage climbing a lot is when I'm displaying a lot of high res cover art. Currently Winamp keeps the final rendered images (once they're displayed) in active memory to eliminate the time and memory otherwise needed to reprocess them, if they are displayed again during the same session.

It may be wise for Winamp to put a cap on the amount of memory used for this purpose (if possible). In extreme cases, memory usage can grow to exceed that allowed for 32-bit apps which causes Winamp to crash when it tries to allocate more.

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Old 23rd August 2014, 18:49   #33
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@swingdjted: Aaahhh that really is a nice story, I always kind of wanted to do some DJ'ing with Winamp + Milkdrop..
Here, a small city from a small country, doing such a thing can be kind of ultra-cool, even thought it is stupidly easy to do
To get a strong start, you would only need:
  • Computers with minimum system requirements for Winamp, two for redundant backup, one with extra video out if you want to project visualization; even old computers can handle this stuff
  • Music (check Billboard or similar past and present list and ask your clientele to write what they like)
  • A bag of extension cords, power strips, signal wiring, microphone, basic wiring/soldering tools, notebook/pen, headphones if you cue, garbage bags, and a towel (many times I load and unload in the rain)
  • Mixer/crossfader (I use it to go back and forth between computers sometimes if I'm cuing and beat-matching with other programs and to add microphone input)
  • Amplifiers (I use two for redundant backup)
  • Speakers/stands if applicable (I like two or more pairs for redundant backup)
  • Projector/screen
  • Table and a tablecloth/banner to hide wires
  • Chair
  • Ear protection
  • High capacity vehicle such as a van, SUV, or pickup with cap or trailer
  • Business cards, because most of your gigs will come from past gigs
  • Fire extinguisher
  • A couple silly jokes and a bit of charisma
For a nice large room (think gymnasium/cafeteria) system, you could get all this minus the vehicle for less than $5,000.00 US dollars brand new. It will be more if you want something better, like high-end brands and redundant backup gear. A lot of people already have a lot of this stuff. It would take less than a year to earn it all back if you have a decent market. Toss in another 2 grand for an old reliable minivan to carry it all. That's all a comparatively low price to start up a business.



I always have redundant backup stuff because things will fail, and dead air is a reputation killer. I've even had a chair fail on me.



If you are interested, go out and do it. It's pretty fun if you're in good enough shape to carry stuff and are willing to keep up with music trends.

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Old 23rd August 2014, 19:21   #34
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Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
The only time I see Winamp's memory usage climbing a lot is when I'm displaying a lot of high res cover art. Currently Winamp keeps the final rendered images (once they're displayed) in active memory to eliminate the time and memory otherwise needed to reprocess them, if they are displayed again during the same session.

It may be wise for Winamp to put a cap on the amount of memory used for this purpose (if possible). In extreme cases, memory usage can grow to exceed that allowed for 32-bit apps which causes Winamp to crash when it tries to allocate more.
Likely posted while I was typing my reply, otherwise I would have replied in my last post. Is this something we can post in the Winamp wish list?

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Old 24th August 2014, 17:41   #35
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its already something I know about.
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Old 25th August 2014, 12:20   #36
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[*] Mixer/crossfader (I use it to go back and forth between computers sometimes if I'm cuing and beat-matching with other programs and to add microphone input)
I worked as a radio DJ years ago and did parties on the side. Now I do a few parties now and then for fun.

What apps or utilities do you use to determine, track and display the BPM in your files? What precision do they provide? As you know, BPM matching is essential to good mixing. Or do you just do them by ear?

I have tried a number of things over the years once digital music arrived. Some are more accurate than others and provide calculations to 3 or 4 decimal points. For some music I have used a utility that counts finger taps in order to get close to an accurate number.

I'm currently using the free version of VirtualDJ 8 to show me where good mix points are between certain songs. I prefer using Winamp to actually play the music because it sounds better to me with all the tweaks I've made to my configuration (including the sound hardware) over the years.

The funny thing is I can often do just as good a job by ear with songs I'm familiar with, but sometimes at parties I get requests for songs I don't know. Sometimes I'm at places with internet access and can quickly download stuff I don't already have.

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Old 13th April 2015, 01:35   #37
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I never realized that I didn't reply to this; better late than never though I guess.

Some programs as simple as (please forgive me for mentioning it) Windows Media Player have functionality to adjust speed, but it's hard to beatmatch using digital files by ear that way, but still possible. I used to do vinyl by ear a long time ago, and that wasn't quite as hard, as you had physical control over the the speed adjustment and records themselves.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/w...#1TC=windows-7

A much more easy way to beatmatch would be using a program like Traktor, which syncs on it's own, or Serato, with has a lot more adjustment capability. Or, if you have the time beforehand, you could consider a looping software program such as Acid Pro, which has the ability to do just about anything imaginable in terms of matching, half-timing, double-timing, equalizing, filtering, etc. along with tweaking many tracks that can be sampled or played simultaneously. A lot of times, I just premix stuff in Acid Pro, which gives a lot of time to make mistakes and fix them long before anyone else hears the final product. Personally I find it quite fun to use that program to remix samples from or entire old songs from video games, movies, advertisement jingles, popular songs from past decades, etc. Audiences seem to love hearing a new, danceable interpretation of something familiar.

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Old 24th March 2016, 10:30   #38
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Md3 md3 md3 !!!!

Should you ever go the MD3 project please go the Kickstarter route, i think you would be surprised how many professional VJ use MD as a source, I think you would get a tidal wave of support and could easily raise few hundred K ( a year / year and a half of focused coding ) with a bunch of professionals providing inspiration would result in a stella platform, you could easily have a std version (auto pilot) and Pro version where all the control is available.

When you tackle this project please build a mechanism for pre-set authors to receive royalties / donations where use in commercial situations. As you point out these guys are the heroes

I personally would pay top teir upto $500 should the app incorporate some key features industry integration.

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> Ryan, I just wanted to give a sincere thanks for doing this.
> Just curious, why did it take so long? People have been begging on here for years. What did you have to do to allow them to release it?

Sure - this is something I asked for many times, but AOL was generally reluctant to do it, which seemed fairly reasonable as they had one of the most popular visualizers out there, and didn't want to make it too easy for others to clone it.

But after enough time passes (...I added pixel shaders to Milkdrop in 2007, which we then renamed to Milkdrop 2) it's generally not such a big deal, as the technology becomes a bit more dated, and others even have some time to (approximately) clone it.

I was very glad to see them do it before Winamp closed up shop, though, as this way, there is a chance to revive it later - from both the source code and content perspectives.

I'm pretty busy with work right now, but someday I plan to delve back in and write the mother of all visualizers; at that time, it would be a horrible shame if I couldn't reuse all of the outstanding content that was written for MilkDrop.

One thing I've always kicked myself for not doing in 2007 was adding an offscreen buffer (or several) to which you could render extra stuff (invisible to the user). Basically take everything about the a preset as it is today (minus the composite shader) and bundle that all up, and make it render (using the warp shader) to a particular offscreen buffer. Let's call each of these bundles a render target (RT0, RT1, RT2, etc.). You could have up to N of these render targets in an MD3 preset. Then you still have a single composite shader for the preset, and it has access to read the contents of all N render targets, and it writes pixels to the screen. In addition, each RT would be able to read the contents of the other RTs. So, serially in time, rendering a frame would go something like: [render to RT0] [render to RT1] ... [render to last RT] [render to screen]. Of course, in each of these passes, you would have read access to all of the other RTs (except the RT you're currently writing - you can't read and write a texture at the same time), and to the screen (unless you're writing to it). (Note: you could actually allow read/write at the same time, if you double-buffer the textures, but this takes twice the memory.)

This is all actually pretty easy to hook up, but very powerful in practice.

Compatibility is easy: To update an MD2 preset to MD3, just put everything except the composite shader in the RT0 bundle, and then keep the composite shader as-is (but have it read RT0). Done. Now add/edit RT1 - or pull it from an existing MD2 preset (or an RT of an MD3 preset). The hardest part would be coming up with a more sensible name for each of these "bundles".

Other low-hanging fruit is upgrading to DX10 and adding 3D textures and float textures.

Also, importing DXF files (3D models) and then allowing the user to write code to perturb the vertices (or change their colors/alpha), or instance them, would be amazing. The user could even write shaders to light and/or texture the [instanced] models. Heck, these objects could be textured using the contents of the offscreen buffers.

Once you add these features, the sky is basically the limit. None of this should be too hard for a graphics programmer; it's just a matter of finding the time to do it.

I apologize for talking about all of this stuff without actually delivering it... I hope that's not too annoying. But I did want to point out that there is *much* more that could be done. (Hmmm... kickstarter?)

So anyway, as you can see, I've thought a lot about this, but I just haven't had the time to code it. But I hope to do so one of these days. I love music visualizers, and unless I'm hit by a bus, I seriously doubt I'll go my whole life without writing something new, and I'm confident that it would kick the living crap out of Milkdrop... with a lot of love from a community of brilliant preset authors.

Speaking of which... you guys have made Milkdrop so much more than I ever dreamed it could or would be. I really can't thank you all enough. Seriously... I wrote an engine... you guys made it beautiful. I am forever grateful for that.

See you on the interwebs...
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Old 24th April 2016, 12:55   #39
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I'm just leaving this here for ya: http://vdmx.vidvox.net/blog/projectmilksyphon
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