Old 20th April 2009, 22:12   #1
rockouthippie
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Cold Fusion Returns

Back in '89 Cold Fusion was debunked. Lately some of those experiments have been revisited. 60 minutes did a special on this on Sunday. It looks like something very weird and unexplained is happening. Maybe free energy could be possible?

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4955212n
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Old 24th April 2009, 02:41   #2
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Hooray!
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Old 25th April 2009, 04:19   #3
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Let's wait until the media figures out what this really is and then we will see the negative spin put on it.

Much like nuclear chemistry.

Oh god, the towers are ebil. We are all going to die. You can't live near these demons.

You get more fucking radiation from a digital wrist watch then from living within a mile of a nuclear power plant.

Cold fusion? Oh, it's cold so it is not as bad as the hot shit.

Oh, cold fusion is lower energy than that hot shit.

OMG!!!! Heavy water is cool, it just weighs a lot more the regular water, right?

Free energy is possible, we have had it ever since Marie Curie discovered radiation.
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Old 27th April 2009, 05:58   #4
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I absolutely detest scare-mongers that latch onto whatever technology is vogue (or even old ones, like vaccines) and make up bullshit or misrepresent statistics to back their claims.

powered by C₂H₅OH
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Old 27th April 2009, 11:23   #5
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To accept any of the explanations of this effect would require a considerable revision to physics as we understand it. There have been some reports that the Palladium starts to contain heavy elements such as copper after undergoing the process. That doesn't make any sense.

Since there is no conversion to helium of the hydrogen in the heavy water, I guess it would be possible that under certain circumstances the Coulomb barrier could be lower. How that wouldn't make helium ... I dunno... How it would make copper out of Palladium?.. How does the induction of electric current in heavy water release neutrons? Heavy water has thus far been used as a neutron moderator, not as any source of neutrons.

Either we are going to figure out a complete revision of physics here or it's baloney. If it is a complete revision of physics, it will have implications far more interesting than this experiment.

It looks like this effect may be real, but I think the explanations of why are total voodoo. That's part of the reason this experiment was dismissed back in the 80's. It would be better to examine this effect before making wild guesses as to why.
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Old 27th April 2009, 14:03   #6
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Copper, I believe, is one of the most commonly formed element from any decay process. The exact explanation for that eludes me at the moment, I just remember from my nuclear chemistry days when looking at a chart of all the nuclides and all of the various combinations of alpha, beta, and gamma emissions possible, the most commonly formed stable isotope that is reached is lead and I believe next up is actually copper.

I believe copper has two incredibly stable forms (Cu-63 and Cu-65), which are also relatively abundant (about a 70/30 split if I remember correctly). If memory also serves, one of those Cu isotopes is the final isotope reached in Pd decay modes. Though I would really have to pull out my nuclear chemistry books to verify that.

As for all of the other questions in there, I'm not too sure about those either. I could guess on the electric current in heavy water somehow sets neutron emission off, which I guess would be possible from the deuterium atoms present in heavy water, which would then create regular water ...

Still curious to see what the media is going to do with it.
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Old 27th April 2009, 17:55   #7
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...and there was me thinking you were talking about Adobe ColdFusion 9....
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Old 27th April 2009, 19:03   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by fc*uk
I could guess on the electric current in heavy water somehow sets neutron emission off, which I guess would be possible from the deuterium atoms present in heavy water, which would then create regular water ...
Yeah, regular water and helium. And heavy water is a neutron inhibitor turning fast neutrons into thermal neutrons. The point being that it absorbs neutrons to change their energy state. It doesn't seem that electric current should free any.
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Old 27th April 2009, 20:50   #9
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Initially, no but atoms/molecules behave strangely. It may be something along the lines of an energy current that is applied of the correct frequency/harmonic, then it causes emission.

I guess maybe not so far fetched if you think that is loosely how a laser works. Give the element energy, make it excited, and watch the atoms lase back down to their normal state. I dunno, give the water energy, make it all excited, and watch the nuetrons pop back out?
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Old 27th April 2009, 21:29   #10
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Fission requires breaking the Coulomb barrier to release free neutrons, which as far as we know now requires massive energy.

The possibilities are a chemical effect, a nuclear effect or something we absolutely don't understand. It looks like none of the possibilities are presenting themselves as obvious.

It is a little disturbing to see the scientists involved making wild speculation about the cause. Very unscientific. The correct answer is "I dunno. It's weird." I guess that wouldn't look too good on a research grant though
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Old 27th April 2009, 22:09   #11
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No, it would not look good on a grant?

Being a scientist, everything starts with an educated guess, that guess is tested and it either is full of win or fail. It actually is quite the definition of the scientific process.

Of course, this makes me disagree with the "I dunno. It's weird" answer from a scientific point of view only. In reality, yea we don't know and it is weird. However, there has to be something making it work, we just don't understand what that is yet. And in fact we may never understand it.

That's actually a problem I have with scientists, they can't admit when they don't know.
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Old 27th April 2009, 22:28   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by fc*uk
That's actually a problem I have with scientists, they can't admit when they don't know.
More than that, they'll invent some science fiction that they know isn't the answer.
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Old 28th April 2009, 00:01   #13
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Not going to even attempt to argue with that one because it is too true as well.
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Old 28th April 2009, 02:53   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by fc*uk
However, there has to be something making it work, we just don't understand what that is yet. And in fact we may never understand it.
Someone always says that. And then suddenly a scientist decides to devote time and energy to understand it all.
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Old 29th April 2009, 02:02   #15
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What the scientist does is not my fault. However, there is always a reason behind everything. Nothing can magically happen.
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