Old 20th November 2002, 19:06   #1
dan138
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 7
OUT_MP3 losing quality

When i use my winamp plug in out_mp3 (nulsoft) to change files to MP3 I have noticed on some i get a loss of sound quality. The high notes will originally sound clear, but when they go through the plug in and i play them back it seems to muffle and ring. Please can you help me!

Thanks
Dan
dan138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2002, 20:30   #2
Sawg
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Yes. MP3 is a lossy format, therfore quality is lost. Try a higher bitrate for output.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2002, 16:57   #3
Neksus
Senior Member
 
Neksus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 250
Bitrate

What Bitrate do you suggest Sawg!!!
What will give the best result for normal users like me!
Currently all my files are Constant 128kbit/s Stereo also called Near CD-Quality is thsi good enough!
Neksus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2002, 17:11   #4
Sawg
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
128 is not CD quality, it is not really near CD quality. Try 160 or 192.

Better yet use --alt-preset standard
out_enc

If you are re-encoding previous MP3s the quality will always go down, regardless of bitrates.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2002, 17:21   #5
Neksus
Senior Member
 
Neksus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 250
Thanks I am Using Easy CD-DA Extractor it says 128 is Near CD-Quality and I have all my MP3's on Original Audio CD's so i will just copy them to my PC once again I see many hours infront of me!
Neksus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2002, 17:57   #6
Neksus
Senior Member
 
Neksus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 250
What about Khz is it a good idea to use 48.0 or 44.1 Khz when encoding MP3? Please Help Me figur this out i know both Winamp 2.81 and Winamp3 can play and will display 48.0 but is there any real different or should i just use 44.1 and 192
Neksus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2002, 21:50   #7
dylman
Forum King
 
dylman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Hawarden
Posts: 2,115
CDs are 44.1 KHz and the mp3s should be as well.

There's no need to tell me when I'm right;
I operate on that principle exclusively and with absolute certainty
dylman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2002, 18:54   #8
dan138
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 7
Out_Mp3

Okay, It seems that on the out_MP3 plug in iam using the maximum attributes are: '56 Kbit/s,24,000 Hz, stereo 7kbs'. Now is this my problem? If it is do you know any other plug ins etc that i can downlaod to make the CD quality?

Thanks
dan138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2002, 19:04   #9
peter
ist death
 
peter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 3,704
Quote:
Originally posted by Sawg
128 is not CD quality, it is not really near CD quality. Try 160 or 192.

Better yet use --alt-preset standard
out_enc

If you are re-encoding previous MP3s the quality will always go down, regardless of bitrates.
peter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2002, 19:04   #10
Sawg
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by Sawg
out_enc
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2002, 19:37   #11
dan138
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 7
Changing to MP3

Okay my plug in can't give me 160 190 etc bits. The maximum i can get is 56bits. So can you please tell me where and what else i can use to change my files to mp3 (I have (out_mp3)?
Thanks
dan138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2002, 19:58   #12
Sawg
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Everybody, one more time! (Maybe it is time to add bink tags to the forum)

Quote:
Originally posted by Sawg
128 is not CD quality, it is not really near CD quality. Try 160 or 192.

Better yet use --alt-preset standard
out_enc

If you are re-encoding previous MP3s the quality will always go down, regardless of bitrates.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2002, 20:06   #13
peter
ist death
 
peter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 3,704
me too !

Quote:
Originally posted by Sawg
128 is not CD quality, it is not really near CD quality. Try 160 or 192.

Better yet use --alt-preset standard
out_enc

If you are re-encoding previous MP3s the quality will always go down, regardless of bitrates.
peter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2002, 20:10   #14
Germ
rules all things
 
Germ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,149
Let me try to communicate with him in his native tongue.
Dur.. DUR... DURR DURR DUHH DURRR!
Hopefully this will help us to make progress in this matter.
Germ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2002, 20:26   #15
dan138
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 7
Read my replys before posting up old replys

YES I KNOW!
I CAN NOT GET THOSE ATTRIBUTES ON MY PLUG IN!

QUESTION:
Can you please tell me where and what else i can use to change my files to mp3 that can give me the quality that you are hammering on about?
dan138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2002, 20:34   #16
dylman
Forum King
 
dylman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Hawarden
Posts: 2,115
Don't use out_mp3. Use out_wave.dll to output a raw WAV file, and run that through an external mp3 encoder program like LameDropXPd. In that program somewhere you will be able to choose "--alt-preset standard". This option will produce large mp3s of very good quality.

There's no need to tell me when I'm right;
I operate on that principle exclusively and with absolute certainty
dylman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2002, 20:37   #17
dan138
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 7
AT LAST!!!

Thank you so much!
dan138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2002, 21:56   #18
DJ Egg
Techorator
Winamp & SHOUTcast Team
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 35,821
But Sawg & Peter have both told you twice to use out_enc.dll (direct link provided four times). Out_enc uses included LameEnc encoder instead of the default Windows codec (which is limited to 56k). This way, there's no need to decode to physical .WAV first. Okay ?!?!?

btw, CD Quality = 1411.2 kbps (uncompressed original WAV format)
So, as you can see, 128k is just over a tenth of actual CD Quality.

16 (bits per sample)
x 44.1KHz (frequency)
x 2 (stereo)
= 1411.2
DJ Egg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th November 2002, 03:08   #19
dad
Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Upstate.....way way Upstate
Posts: 82
Hi DJEgg! Happened upon your reply and could not help but question your rationale. If this be true, why do so many think that 160 "k" is more "near CD quality" than 128? It certainly is not that much closer than 128 is to the CD "standard" of 1411 that you calculated! For that matter, either is 256! I gave up trying to figure this all out. Once I discovered the vbr setting I was hooked. To my ears, anyway, mp3s yield great sound if they are encoded this way and I'd like to recommend this setting to anybody considering ripping their CD collections.I use the out_mp3.dll output plug in by Chun-Yu, version 3.0. This offers a VBR/ABR Setting range of "1" for VBR-Quality and a max bitrate of 320. I use the encoder thread priority at "normal" and have enjoyed great quality playback from every mp3 encoded this way thru my old Winamp 2.71 and the out_wav.dll, version 2.3. BTW, what is this out_enc that Sawg recommended? The link provided gives me only a file to download (enc.zip). No information. Thanks for any followup and, as always, thanks for your great work keeping us educated.
dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th November 2002, 07:53   #20
ujay
Forum King
 
ujay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London
Posts: 6,072
Hi there dad.

I think 'near CD quality' came about in the days when there was not a lot of choice in mp3 encoders and 128Kbps was the best available, 'nearest to CD quality' might have been more honest

160 may not sound a lot in comparison to 1411, but in comparison to 128 it is a 25% increase, if you use 192 then it's a 50% increase.

Because of the way our ears work there is a law of diminishing returns here too. If you start off at say 32kbps and compare it with 64kbps you will notice quite a difference, if you double it again then the difference won't be so obvious and if you double it again .... You will need very sharp ears to hear a difference between 320 and CD (I'm getting on a bit now and can't hear a damn note over 12KHz anyway)

Your favourite VBR is a good choice, the encoder drops the bitrate when it is dealing with the easy stuff and takes it to the max on the difficult bits. This has the effect of making the size as small as possible but still keeping the quality at the level you set.

Once you get to 320 this is around the point where you may as well start to use lossless compression. The file size is only a bit bigger, but it will decode to exactly the same data as was in the original .wav file (what was on the CD).

In the end it all comes down to balancing quality against size. A lot of this quest for perfection is to do with keeping the file sizes down, so they are quicker to send over the net, or so as many as possible can be loaded onto an Mp3 player.

My 2 pence worth to keep you going till DJEgg or Sawg come along.

btw. I think enc.zip is Peter's latest mp3 output plug-in, don't quote me though, I never use Winamp for encoding.

UJ
ujay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th November 2002, 17:34   #21
dad
Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Upstate.....way way Upstate
Posts: 82
Thanks for your reply, ujay. I'll keep it nearby and refer to it everytime I "listen" to my mp3 collections from now on. Your explanation makes great sense and could help many "listeners" like myself understand a little better. Now, could you please explain what a sound card does in the same "makes sense" not too technical way? Specifically, I'm usually confounded when I read about stuff that "bypasses the sound card" to make sound. If my computer speakers plug into my sound card, does this mean that I won't hear anything out of the speakers when I use this method? I need a refresher course, I guess, and soon. My rig will be 5 years old this Christmas, and I fear my sound system will be obsolete and unable to handle new developments. Thanks again for your help.
dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Winamp > Winamp Technical Support

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump