Old 19th February 2013, 12:26   #1
redux89
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MP3 Encoder metadata glitch

A few years ago, prior to moving to England, I digitized my entire CD collection (all legally purchased) to 320k MP3s using Winamp. Some tracks were incorrectly labelled with no track number -- for example, on Radiohead's Hail To The Thief, "I Will" and "A Wolf At The Door" had the correct track, album and artist name, but no #. I edited the metadata in Winamp as well as the file properties in Windows to reflect the right # but the songs still appear in the wrong order in my Winamp Media Library -- they appear first, above the rest of the album's tracks (all correctly numbered). More importantly, this incorrect order appears when I copy the album to two different MP3 players (iPod and Creative Zen).

This glitch only occurred for about 10% of the albums I digitized but it's still annoying and I haven't found a solution... other than re-ripping those albums, which are currently sitting in storage in Canada.

Help would be much appreciated.

I am running Winamp Pro 5.623 and MP3 Encoder v1.36 on a Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-bit.
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Old 19th February 2013, 17:07   #2
Batter Pudding
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It sounds like you got some duff data from Gracenote. Easy to clean up without need to re-rip.

First get hold of MP3TAG from mp3tag.de . A nice little German tool which lets you get closer to what your TAGS are really doing. I'd then load up each "bad" album in this program and set the track numbers cleanly. Make sure it is using a clean numbering system in the TRACK tag.

Next check the actual physical file names. Have these got track numbers in them? Are they correct? Make corrections to anything that does not look perfect.

Once done you may need to update Winamp. If you have changed filenames then you will need to locate the album in Winamp's Library View and delete it. Then readd the album (drag and drop of the single album may be quickest).


Note: You don't really need to use MP3TAG but it is a great tool to have. You can do similar in Winamp. Example: Worth through the tracks for Hail to the Theif one by one checking the "View File Info" for those tracks. Correct any errors you see. Specifically make sure you have those Track Numbers in a clean way.

It is actually possible to select the WHOLE album in one go and then Right Click / View File Info. This lets you step through each track correcting the data. And as long as you hit OK after each track it will then open up the next track ready for you.


I have just had a quick look at my rip of Hail to the Thief. Both my MP3 rips and FLAC rips of that album have clean data. Don't remember if I was editing this myself. But it is noticeable that the later FLACs have a different Genre category


Once you have made changes to metadata - especially if outside of winamp - it is a good idea to select the album(s) and RIGHT CLICK \ READ METADATA ON SELECTED ITEMS to make sure it really updates winamp.
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Old 19th February 2013, 17:26   #3
MrSinatra
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first, 5.63 is the current ver.

second, you should not need to update the tag info in BOTH winamp AND windows file properties. winamp alone should do the trick. if the track numbers were in the tags and then the DB, winamp would order them correctly, esp if the track number column was used for sorting.

(edit: also, winamp will "guess" at metadata unless you turn it off in prefs, which i do, in two places on the watch folders tab)

i agree with BP, load up everything in mp3tag and make sure you have only id3v2.3 tags, and they all show track numbers. that should sort you out.

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BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 19th February 2013, 17:39   #4
Batter Pudding
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I have had some occasions where tracks have been ripped, but due to crud data from Gracenote the wrong filenames were written for some of the tracks. This is why I think it is also important to actually double check the actual file names.

Personally I sort my library using the "File Path" column. When I do this it is important to have good filenames with correct track numbers in them. The reason I do this is because I can often have multiple copies of the same album. (Especially as after ripping everything to MP3 I changed my HiFi only to hear how crap MP3 is and have restarted ripping to FLAC...)

That "file Path" column of the media library needs to be added in with a Right Click on the column headers and select Customise Columns... Any other ordering never really worked for me as I often like to see multiple albums from a search.
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Old 19th February 2013, 17:52   #5
MrSinatra
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yes, if you sort by filename or filepath, it is important to make sure they correctly list the track number. when i rip, my filenames are all: artist - ## - title.mp3 so they do sort correctly in explorer. (i have another method for comps, but they sort properly too)

however, i have np's in winamp getting proper sorting for my DLs, which often have crazy filenames, as long as the metadata is correct. i typically sort by albumartist, which tends to respect track numbers.

btw, i always rip with EAC. i think EAC or dbpoweramp are really the only safe ways to rip. i have never had an issue with bad track numbers using either, (probably b/c i don't think either uses gracenote)

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 19th February 2013, 18:10   #6
Batter Pudding
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I've always used Winamp Pro to Rip. Originally MP3s, then moved to FLAC with the HiFi upgrade. I would say that Gracenote seems about 95% good with my CDs. It is just a few more obscure things like the Ozric Tentacles that didn't pick up. I also have some bootleg CD albums which I know I was uploading the correct data TO Gracenote.

Generally my habit is to rip the album to FLAC, then run through the tracks by hand checking them track by track. There are also typos in the Gracenote data at times. As well as a few odd things in the comment fields. It is at this same time I then sort out the artwork. All this being done as the next CD is being ripped. Can get quite a good production line going.

The "Edit metadata for Selection" can be a great time saver for correcting tags common to a whole album. Or getting capitalisation corrected when you find artist or album names in lower case.


Sorting by "Album Artist" assumes you only have a single copy of each album in your collection. So it mixes my MP3 and FLAC rips in a confused manner for my collection. This then gets even more confusing as I have multiple copies of Dark Side Of The Moon. (Just looked and found ten of them. Need to throw some of those out I think )
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Old 19th February 2013, 19:11   #7
MrSinatra
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the main reason i don't use winamp to rip, is that it doesn't support accuraterip. given that you are interested in sound quality, i am surprised you do not require this feature.

i should point out that EAC not only doesn't use gracenote, but doesn't use any online DB for tracknumbers, or at least thats what i think. honestly, it doesn't make sense for a ripper to use a DB for track numbers. that info is static and provided by the discs TOC.

also, i can't see paying for ripping to mp3, (the free ver will rip to FLAC). and i would rather rip with one online DB for tags, while my manager uses another, which helps to catch errors in the DBs.

i can also have an alternate scheme for comps, and EAC will let me easily change data prior to the rip, for either tracks or the whole album. i find it easier than winamp.

i do use winamp to fix tags afterwards, but usually it isn't needed, except for removing disc tags. i usually do maint in winamp on one CD while EAC is ripping another.

i occassionally have more than one copy of the same album in my collection, but i differentiate them using the album tag. i would find it problematic to always browse by filepath, but i can certainly see why you do.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 19th February 2013, 19:18   #8
lostinsound
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redux89 View Post
A few years ago, prior to moving to England, I digitized my entire CD collection (all legally purchased) to 320k MP3s using Winamp. Some tracks were incorrectly labelled with no track number -- for example, on Radiohead's Hail To The Thief, "I Will" and "A Wolf At The Door" had the correct track, album and artist name, but no #. I edited the metadata in Winamp as well as the file properties in Windows to reflect the right # but the songs still appear in the wrong order in my Winamp Media Library -- they appear first, above the rest of the album's tracks (all correctly numbered). More importantly, this incorrect order appears when I copy the album to two different MP3 players (iPod and Creative Zen).

This glitch only occurred for about 10% of the albums I digitized but it's still annoying and I haven't found a solution... other than re-ripping those albums, which are currently sitting in storage in Canada.

Help would be much appreciated.

I am running Winamp Pro 5.623 and MP3 Encoder v1.36 on a Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-bit.
My first thought is to look at the 'Disc' tag on all the tracks in each album. My guess is that on those that didn't have track numbers, the disc tag was empty too. If the disc tag is empty on those and all the rest of the tracks have 'Disc'=1 or 1/1 (or any other value) then those with blank disc tags will be listed first no matter what the track numbers are.
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Old 19th February 2013, 19:37   #9
Batter Pudding
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@MrSinatra: we are dragging this thread off topic. I keep my CDs on the shelf so Winamp's FLAC rip is "good enough". And when I hear the odd blip from a mucky CD I just re-rip. The quality difference is still there compared with MP3. It is just that odd click that can occur from a fingerprint or scratch that accuraterip would catch.

I tend to keep my CDs stubbornly clean and always in their case. So they are all still in pretty good nick.

Gracenote is also "good enough" for me in most cases. Quicker to fill data in and check for errors than to have to type it all in by hand. I can get into quite a good routine when ripping lots of CDs.

As to Winamp's MP3 ripping licence. I pay for this not just so I can rip to MP3 or convert my FLAC to MP3, but mainly so I can support the development of the product. For my longest used piece of software I think they deserve the small fee. Same with shareware, plugins, etc. If the product is useful then it is worth a donation. (Though I have probably sent more cash to DrO for his plugins than Winamp over the years)

I may only have a forum join date of 2008, but I have been using Winamp since 1998/9. So I think it has paid for itself by now.
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Old 19th February 2013, 19:56   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
I occasionally have more than one copy of the same album in my collection, but I differentiate them using the album tag. I would find it problematic to always browse by filepath, but I can certainly see why you do.
Having FLAC and MP3 versions on the same PC means I still need the file path sort. Otherwise I'd need to add the FLAC\MP3 bit into the album name which would just look uncomfortable to me.

LoL!!! Just noticed that "Dark Side Of The Moon" and "The Dark Side Of The Moon" are sorted as if there is no leading "The".

I make a huge use of the SEARCH field. And having the File Path on screen means I can search by Audio File Type. Example: typing FLAC immediately hides all the MP3, M4A and other rubbish that lurks in my collection and shows me only FLAC. Then I hit space and type the album, artist, or whatever I am looking for.

The flexibility of Winamp is excellent.
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Old 19th February 2013, 21:21   #11
MrSinatra
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but you could use smartviews to divvy up mp3 vs flac?

and if you're using search to do that, then you don't need the filepath to delineate them anyway.

also, winamp ignores "the" seemingly everywhere. its the one article it ignores, and its mandatory.

EDIT: i meant to add that i don't put "mp3" or "flac" in my album tags. i find other ways to discern them.

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--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 20th February 2013, 09:34   #12
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Please don't try to teach me to suck eggs. The point is we all use Winamp in different ways. The flexibility of Winamp allows us to handle different types of collections in many different ways.

Maybe we should get back to the original question? We are getting way off topic. And I think we have scared the noobie off.
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Old 20th February 2013, 10:16   #13
redux89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinsound View Post
My first thought is to look at the 'Disc' tag on all the tracks in each album. My guess is that on those that didn't have track numbers, the disc tag was empty too. If the disc tag is empty on those and all the rest of the tracks have 'Disc'=1 or 1/1 (or any other value) then those with blank disc tags will be listed first no matter what the track numbers are.
Thank you @lostinsound -- that appears to have worked!

Much appreciated to everyone for their input.
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Old 20th February 2013, 10:35   #14
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Excellent. Nice to see it was something simple and glad our bickering didn't scare you off.

You can now use Winamp to clear all those disk tags en-masse.

Right click the column headers in the Media Library and add the "Disc" column. Should be easier to spot the errors then.

And then Right Click \ Edit Metadata for Selection feature can correct it for big lists of files in one hit as you can change the disc value in there.
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Old 20th February 2013, 17:08   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batter Pudding View Post
Please don't try to teach me to suck eggs.
wtf?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batter Pudding View Post
glad our bickering didn't scare you off.
speak for yourself. YOUR bickering. i was just talking, nothing more, no malice intended, no anything.

but now, thx to you, here i am, bickering. congrats.

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--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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