Old 22nd December 2009, 11:49   #1
rockouthippie
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Obama health bill set for Xmas passage

Legislation to enact US President Barack Obama's top domestic goal, remaking US health care, was expected to clear a new Senate procedural hurdle on Tuesday and stay on track for Christmas passage.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news...1222-lbrl.html

It is far from certain that this will be reconcilable to the House bill over issues including federally funded abortions and public option insurance.

The insured and the uninsured understand that medical care costs too much in the US and has outcomes which are not as good as other western nations getting health care for half of what we spend.... covering everyone....

This article explains how the bill could force middle class families to purchase $15,000 worth of insurance with no government subsidy. It also explains how the CBO has underestimated the number of people who will be forced to buy more insurance without government assistance. It also explains that employers will be dropping medical coverage for their employees because the new government minimum insurance guidelines will be more expensive. Also that employees who make less than 400% of the poverty level don't qualify for government subsidies if their employer offers coverage. Why would an employer continue to offer coverage?

Congress didn't even give us a kiss first when they wrote this bill that has the full support of our overpaid, bloated medical and insurance industries. They love it. You shouldn't. I want to hear these industries groaning and moaning over how unfair it is that they don't get to rape us anymore. I want to hear lawyers crying about tort reform and having to find honest work. That would be "change".

Wow! Our insurance reform plan to cover us chickens has the full support of wolves. I'm convinced

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Old 23rd December 2009, 02:52   #2
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I support diverting money from useless and wasteful wars and spending that money on building publicly funded hospitals and clinics.
That isn't even necessary. Almost every other industry in the world makes money because it provides quality goods and services for what people can afford to pay. The medical and insurance companies aren't so constrained.

We have established cartels and monopolies in some of our key systems including medical care. We are the victims of monopolies, usury and price fixing.

Returning to capitalist values, which would include traditional anti-trust, anti price fixing, anti-usury and anti-racketeering laws would return us to sanity. Tort reform needs to leave some lawyers looking for a real job.

This bill pays the people we should be chopping down to size. We asked the government to help us get what we wanted in our health care. They asked the industry what it wanted, which was to make even more money and to continue the status quo with a trillion more dollars. The insurance companies and hospitals are on the verge of breaking us, so they had to put the tap on an imaginary business taxpayer that allegedly can afford it.

While we scream "You're breaking our backs!" The response is "Can we have another trillion? Oh, and by the way, we'll be cutting your moms medicare benefits too. We're sorry the new taxes caused your employer to cancel your medical benefits or fire you."

As the government moves us toward financial insanity of devoting a fifth of the US economy to medical care and insurance companies, you've gotta know that isn't sustainable.

Nobody likes the terrifying idea of rationed health care, but I think some rationing is rational to assume a fiscal goal. The goal is that we don't spend half our life working to stay healthy enough to work.

Last edited by rockouthippie; 23rd December 2009 at 03:24.
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Old 14th January 2010, 23:30   #3
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Originally posted by Aquarius Antares
But the bill, as enacted by the House of Representatives, has some rather disturbing and, in my view, unconstitutional provisions.For example, it criminalizes or penalizes the decisions of those who, for whatever reason, decide not to purchase health care insurance.
As I understand it, treatment of the uninsured is one the biggest strains on the American healthcare system, so isn't this a necessity for making the whole package financially feasible/neutral? I mean I don't think it's reasonable to expect doctors who've taken an oath to save lives, let people die because of petty economics, no matter how stupid they've been.
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Old 15th January 2010, 04:44   #4
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As I understand it, treatment of the uninsured is one the biggest strains on the American healthcare system
Yep. 20% of us are uninsured, so that means that medical costs in the United States are at least twice (and usually a lot more than that) what people in other countries pay. That always seemed like pretty fuzzy math to me. The uninsured are a nice scapegoat though.

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I mean I don't think it's reasonable to expect doctors who've taken an oath to save lives, let people die because of petty economics, no matter how stupid they've been.
Are you kidding? Doctors are probably the most stingy group of people I've ever met. There are a very few exceptions tat are a credit to being human beings. It's rare.

Let people die? They do it almost every time someone can't pay. 50,000 people a year die of a lack of basic medical care. Hell, even when you do pay them, if you get in trouble they might get back to you, if it doesn't interfere with golf. Doctors? Humanitarians. Prick 101 must be a required course in medical school.

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Old 15th January 2010, 06:10   #5
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Forget the debate, can I have my free drugs already!

But I will agree on one point - health care would be affordable if doctors didn't charge out the ass. You realize your doctor probably makes on average about 200.000 or more for that ten minutes they make you spend with them every three months? Poke here, poke there, blood pressure, take a vial of blood and thanks. Spank on the ass, out the door and right to the next room where someone else gets poked.

And mind you that's the doctors caring for Medicare patients. I know of doctors that charge much more but that's cause they're real easy to get good drugs from and they could care less cause your insurance is paying for the whole thing to happen.

Most doctors outside the US make much less while being just as - if not more - qualified than what we have now.

Of course many others are also very overpaid - corporate CEO's, sports stars, movie stars - holy crap. Our local team signed Matt Holliday and he's now making something like $110,000 PER AT BAT. WHAT THE F()CK!

But as far as health care walk into a hospital hurt and tell them you don't have insurance and see how you're treated. Then try it with insurance. You will see the difference and it's because they know that they can rape your insurance and get paid and that's their game until someone makes that point moot.

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Old 15th January 2010, 13:38   #6
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But as far as health care walk into a hospital hurt and tell them you don't have insurance and see how you're treated. [/B]
There is even a word for how you're treated. It's called the "bums rush".

While you are, by law, supposed to get treatment in an emergency room regardless of ability to pay, you'd better be ready to insist and threaten a lawsuit to make it actually happen. I always thought it was funny. Nurses are even worse than doctors. I had a nurse tell me one time "This isn't a charity you know". I said "That is for fucking sure!". It's like the bitches own the hospital. And I did pay the bill.... Cash. I guess if you don't want to get treated like something that crawled out from under a rock, you better have an insurance card.... even if you pay your bills....

My sister is a nurse and she commented about the same thing. My nephew broke his arm. She had been out camping, looked like something the dog dragged in, with her 4 boys in tow, also camp dirty. Forgot her insurance card. I think it changed her perspective on people in her own profession and how people get treated in the hospital she works for.

Cutting through the bullshit only happened because she personally knew one of the ER docs on duty who vouched for her. Meanwhile a kid with bones sticking through the skin waits for triage by bums rush protocol.

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Old 18th January 2010, 23:23   #7
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Originally posted by rockouthippie
Let people die? They do it almost every time someone can't pay. 50,000 people a year die of a lack of basic medical care. Hell, even when you do pay them, if you get in trouble they might get back to you, if it doesn't interfere with golf. Doctors? Humanitarians. Prick 101 must be a required course in medical school.
And therein lies the danger of letting capitalist forces meddle with human lives. It might sound like the usual America bashing, but with every reform we've had of the healthcare system here, like when patients waiting certain operations that had waiting lists, were allowed to have their operation done at a private hospital at the government's expense. The party that enacted the reform went through great lengths assuring voters that it would not lead us towards the American system, cause had they believed so, it would have cost them the election.
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Old 19th January 2010, 00:06   #8
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I don't think the problem is capitalism. I think the problem is the abuse of capitalism mandated in law and creating a system of systemic pandering of the medical, legal and insurance industry.

If you are advocating a government run system for America, our Democrat Congress hasn't found anything like that in the proposals waiting to be law now. What you have found is how to run 20% of our gross domestic product, with mandated payments and under criminal penalty, through the same industries that give us the current intolerable situation. There is nothing that indicates anything that will stop our faster than inflation medical cost increases.

Whether you are capitalist or anti-capitalist doesn't matter. The Congress didn't find either .... just pork for too greedy interests.

With this legislation you must, under penalty of law, pay too much. How that is a good deal for the public escapes me. Were liberals too busy chanting "Obama! Obama!" to notice they got fucked by Congress again? It's "change". "Change" which anyone in their right mind would notice is for the worse. It meets none of the goals. 30 million people still will not have medical care. What is already too expensive will cost even more. No solutions to the imminent demise of medicare.

Pfft!

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Old 19th January 2010, 19:37   #9
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Will be interesting to see what happens if GOP wins senator race in Mass today. Could change the entire healthcare bill.
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Old 18th February 2011, 21:29   #10
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House blocks funding for health care law
Feb 18, 2011

The GOP-led House voted today to block funding to implement the nation's health care law.

The action came on several amendments to a must-pass spending bill that would pay for government operations from March through September.

Specifically, the House voted to prohibit any funds be used by the Internal Revenue Service to carry out the law's mandate that Americans buy health insurance. The individual mandate, one of the law's key tenets, has been struck down by federal courts.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/02/house-postponl
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Old 19th February 2011, 11:55   #11
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That headline is a distortion. The House (regardless of party majority) didn't fund a health care bill which is largely unfunded. The Democrat led "supermajority" didn't fund it. Passing the health care bill required leaving it underfunded.... almost unfunded.

It's because funding this gigantic turkey, as written, is probably impossible. As written, this thing practically needs a blank check. Even Democrats can't, and didn't, write a blank check.

Getting Republicans and Democrats to agree on the budget might be easier than getting Democrats and Democrats to agree on it.

This "health care bill" wouldn't have passed if Congress actually wrote into law how they were going to fund it. Even with a Democrat super-majority.
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