Old 17th December 2003, 08:10   #1
quanta67
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Porn on WinAmp TV

Hi, it has come to my attention that there are a number of hardcore porn channels on WinAmp TV.

While I in no way wish to spoil anyone's enjoyment of this material I think it is wise if all adult content could be password protected so that young children cannot inadvertantly access it.

I think if AOL - given that they are a family orientated company - were found to be allowing free access to internet porn channels to very young children, this would have a deeply negative effect on their business.

Again I do not wish to spoil anyone's enjoyment of this material - and indeed I feel it has a legitamate role in any mass entertainment media. But I do not think it is quite as suiable for children as it is for adults.

Please advise.

Q
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Old 17th December 2003, 12:22   #2
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[this should be in GD or Winamp discussions]

I for one don't think censoring sex in general is anything but saving parents from embarassing questions.

Your kids are bound to see porn on TV, or elsewhere. And if they don't see it, they may just have sex with their kid friends to see what those things are for, or whatever.

My point being.. censorship serves no real purpose. There shouldn't be censorship in winamp, either.
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Old 17th December 2003, 12:24   #3
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Old 17th December 2003, 12:37   #4
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Kids shouldnt be allowed at a computer anyways.
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Old 17th December 2003, 13:36   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by baafie
[this should be in GD or Winamp discussions]

I for one don't think censoring sex in general is anything but saving parents from embarassing questions.

Your kids are bound to see porn on TV, or elsewhere. And if they don't see it, they may just have sex with their kid friends to see what those things are for, or whatever.

My point being.. censorship serves no real purpose. There shouldn't be censorship in winamp, either.
That's a reasonable opinion, but it's only your opinion. Other people think differently and they have as much right to demand (optional) censorship as you demand it's removal.
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Old 17th December 2003, 14:09   #6
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To be honest, I find it sad that most of the popular content in the tv listings is pretty much just porn. I will see about working towards getting more content on there, but it's going to be quite a battle. This whole tv listing thing is going to be quite an interesting thing to see how it works out now that all these people have are learning how to use it and stream their own content.
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Old 17th December 2003, 14:17   #7
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Its a freedom of expression thing really. If you wanna see porn you should be able to see porn. Your perogative. You dont want your kids to see porn dont let them anywhere near a computer.
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Old 17th December 2003, 14:31   #8
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I big bold check here to view porn will be added. UNchecked by default for those that bitch to make them happy.
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Old 17th December 2003, 14:35   #9
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Thats a good idea... put an optional filter in!!
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Old 17th December 2003, 14:36   #10
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When I was younger it wasa real challenge to see porn. Get a jazz mag from teh shop "oh who is going to buy it we are just 14" steal them, etc. Let alone a video wow my parnets where never out of teh house long enough to watch one when I did borrow one for a night.

Kids have it too easy now-a-days.

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Old 17th December 2003, 15:35   #11
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Look guys my kids have a right to use a PC, just like anyone else. They use it for school and educational purposes, to play games - and guess what - yep to listen to music too. However they are both 9 and 11 respectively - one girl and one boy - and therefore are far too young to be exposed to hardcore pornography. Personally I think it's crazy to say there shouldn't be any filter at all. All I am asking for is an optional filter, one adults can set up with a password to view explicit content at their leisure that may not be (and in this case certainly isn't) suitable for children. Just think of the headlines if you will, if I were to write to a national UK news paper - which I may well do. How about "Disgusting! Popular Family Internet service Provider AOL serves hard core porn to young kids," Don't you think something like that might sink AOL for good?

I don't think it's really an option. I think there should be a password protected filter as some of this content is probably illegal in the UK. I don't give a damn about people bitching about freedom of speech. I am all for letting people watch whatever they want - provided there is an adult filter that can be protected with a password.

I care even less about a bunch of sexually frustrated teenage boys complaining that they have a right to see what ever they want to. Not in my world you wouldn't, - and not if you were my kids either.

I will wait seven days for an appropriate response. Then I will write a letter to a national tabloid newspaper. Then lets see what kind of damage a general moral panic can do to AOL's fortunes in this country.

Kind regards,

GJ
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Old 17th December 2003, 15:46   #12
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Take winamp off your machine if you dont want your Kids seeing porn on it. You cant expect every vendor to rewrite their code just because you havent set up a rights policy to access programs. Your kids sure do have a right to use the computer, but education on the internet will be a lot better to them than just 'hiding' what the real internet has to offer, porn or otherwise.
Kids arent stupid. Putting a filter on Winamp will do little. If your kids want to find porn they will. If you educate them you will at least have given them the choice to decide...
If you want to be a drama queen and write to the tabloids then go right ahead. I really dont see what that will acheive. I somehow cant imagine a column on winamp and its internet TV content ever making any sort of headlines unless the content falls below the morals of most internet people...
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Old 17th December 2003, 15:50   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by quanta67
Look guys my kids have a right to use a PC, just like anyone else. They use it for school and educational purposes,
but nothing too educational, right?

Aha ha ha...

<-- Makes it all OK
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Old 17th December 2003, 15:54   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by quanta67
Look guys my kids have a right to use a PC, just like anyone else. They use it for school and educational purposes, to play games - and guess what - yep to listen to music too. However they are both 9 and 11 respectively - one girl and one boy - and therefore are far too young to be exposed to hardcore pornography.
I disagree with your wording.. kids aren't 'exposed' to things. They find it for themselves. And if kids want to find porn, they will find it one way or the other. I, for one, don't think a child will get mentally impaired if he/she comes across porn.

As soon as you 'expose' someone to the internet, he/she will get exposed to porn, be it advertisement or otherwise.

Quote:
Originally posted by quanta67 I don't think it's really an option. I think there should be a password protected filter as some of this content is probably illegal in the UK. I don't give a damn about people bitching about freedom of speech. I am all for letting people watch whatever they want - provided there is an adult filter that can be protected with a password.
Heh.. I guess that's where we differ in opinion. I think there should be no censorship, and I give a damn about freedom of speech.

Quote:
Originally posted by quanta67 I care even less about a bunch of sexually frustrated teenage boys complaining that they have a right to see what ever they want to. Not in my world you wouldn't, - and not if you were my kids either.
I'm not a kid, nor am I sexually frustrated. Even so, I'm glad you're not my parent.

Quote:
Originally posted by quanta67 I will wait seven days for an appropriate response. Then I will write a letter to a national tabloid newspaper. Then lets see what kind of damage a general moral panic can do to AOL's fortunes in this country.
The word "childish" just popped into my head.
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Old 17th December 2003, 15:58   #15
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Childish is a good word...
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Old 17th December 2003, 16:13   #16
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theres no defending streams of hardcore porn, the bottom line is AOL shouldnt allow it to be on there. maybe if it was good porn i wouldnt be complaining, but it sucks! so take it off.
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Old 17th December 2003, 16:19   #17
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If you dont like it..dont use it!!
Nobody is putting a gun to your head to use WINAMP.
If you dont agree with the content on it or scared (lol)for your kids use the MANY other media players out there you moron. A very simple remedy to your displeasure.
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Old 17th December 2003, 16:26   #18
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I liked the guy in the WA5 wishlist forum who wanted this feature, who said his kids use the ITV to watch Family Guy and The Simpsons, but the Porn needs to be filtered.

Family Guy has a whole episode about...size issues..and another where the family dog is sexually frusterated the entire episode and ends up going after some female dog.

But the Porn is naughty naughty bad bad.

The censorship sucks in general. In my high school (days long past, thankfully) they had to installed the mandatory-for-federal-funds filtering software.

After that, I was unsable to search for 'weapons of mass destruction' in google, unable to do legitimate research on research in embrionic development and fertility treatments. The filter would block all kinds of stuff, even searches for 'girls soccer'.

But, then again, you don't flip through cable TV and see 10 channels of hardcore porn (unless you've chosen to pay for it). At least in Winamp's case, it might be a useful option - but make it a fair filter, based on words, capable of filtering out anything - not just a 'check to see porn' box. So if I don't want my kids watching Family guy in 15 years, I can filter that out too, along with music videos of scantily clad women and various other things.

You know what's educational.. Discovery Channel. Except, oh my, every once in a while they talk about animals mating habits.. Oh my.
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Old 17th December 2003, 16:28   #19
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do either Nullsoft or AOL have any control over what is 'broadcast' over Winamp TV?
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Old 17th December 2003, 16:36   #20
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Look what harm can a password do you guys? Unless you are illiterate and unable to write - or are afraid your own parents might prevent you from accessing porn?

When my kids are 16 they can view whatever the hell they like. Until then I am not just their parent I am also their moral guardian - and it is my duty to try to protect them from anything that may have potentially harmful effects.

What responsible parent would allow 9 and 10 year old children to sit and watch porn all day? Indeed I find it crazy to even suggest that they should.

I have tried to make it clear that I am not personally down on porn - indeed as a male I would regret its complete removal. But there are and certainly should be limits.

You might think it is unlikely that a tabloid news paper would pursue AOL for streaming porn, but you don't understand what the tabloid news papers in this country are like. In any case whether you think it is childish or not, it is a theory I am willing to test. I have a right to take steps to try to protect my kids in whatever way I see fit - and I don't think I should have to give up using Winamp (which I have used since 1999) because of it.

Kind regards,

G.J.
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Old 17th December 2003, 16:37   #21
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@ TheBishopOfSoho...

There's no need to flame quanta67. If anything is childish, flaming most certainly is.

@ quanta67...

Currently you have 2 choices:

1. Prevent Internet Radio and TV from being accessed through the Media Library... press CTRL+P to open Preferences > General Preferences > Media Library
Under the Internet Radio/TV tab, UNcheck the checkbox to the left of Show "Internet Radio" and "Internet TV" views in media library

Now unless your kids start messing around with your preferences, that should do the trick. Then when you use Winamp 5.0 yourself, you can always check that box again.

2. Download and install Winamp 5.0 Lite. The Lite version has no Video support at all, which will of course also prevent your kids from viewing *******oriented Internet TV. But this also means that they cannot use Winamp to view any videos and would have to use another player for that. The Lite version is also limited insofar as not having CD burning and ripping support, and does not have support for Modern skins, and there is no Media Library.

Don't email or PM me concerning Winamp. Instead, either start a NEW TOPIC or post a REPLY in the appropriate thread in these forums. This will also benefit others who may have a similar question or problem. But before posting, please first Search the forums and read all FAQs and all Sticky threads.

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Old 17th December 2003, 16:44   #22
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Sorry Dude, I wasn't flaming. The last thing I want this to do is decend into some flame war. I don't have the energy for those things.

But there is some good kids content on Winamp TV. The only problem is that it's mixed up right in there with hardcore porn. Admitedly some people out there might enjoy the juxtaposition of hard core porn with for example Dora the Explorer. People get their kicks in all kinds of odd ways. Personally however I think a little bit of screening might be a bit more sensible.

I don't think it's crazy to ask for it.

Q

Last edited by quanta67; 17th December 2003 at 17:02.
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Old 17th December 2003, 16:51   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nunzio390
@ TheBishopOfSoho...

There's no need to flame quanta67. If anything is childish, flaming most certainly is.
Actually, it was me who called quanta67 childish, because I believe it is quite childish to use the tabloids to make a company bend your way. Which is what he was threatening to do.
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Old 17th December 2003, 16:55   #24
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Well as I said, all that can be avoided. It doesn't seem like such a difficult thing to do. The official AOL software package contains exactly these filters anyway.

Do they want to undo the family friendly image they have tried so hard to create in this country? It seems like a simple choice to me.

Q
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Old 17th December 2003, 16:59   #25
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@ quanta67...
Quote:
Sorry Dude, I wasn't flaming.
No no no. Re-read my above post more carefully. I was telling TheBishopOfSoho not to flame you. Calling someone childish is flaming that person. And now that baafie has responded by saying that he was the one that initially said it, the same applies to baafie.

Insofar as a future release of Winamp 5.0 having a screening filter... well anything is possible and I'm sure it can be a consideration. But as I said above, currently you only have those 2 options, and I provided that info for you as a solution to your problem/concern with your kids viewing *******oriented Internet TV through the Winamp application.

So go with one of those suggestions for now.
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Old 17th December 2003, 16:59   #26
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Seems to me, if you want to write someone, you'd write AOL.
They own Nullsoft/Winamp.
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Old 17th December 2003, 17:07   #27
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Well since they are the only choices... They do kind of suck - as I like some of winAmp TV myself - and I paid for the pro version this time...

Oh well. I will write to AOL and if I get no joy from them I will have no option but to try another method.

Kind regards,

Q
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Old 17th December 2003, 17:09   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nunzio390
@ quanta67...No no no. Re-read my above post more carefully. I was telling TheBishopOfSoho not to flame you. Calling someone childish is flaming that person. And now that baafie has responded by saying that he was the one that initially said it, the same applies to baafie.
Ah..

Then it would be my place to say I wasn't flaming. According to the Jargon file, the definition of a flame is:
"To post a[n email] message intended to insult and provoke."

My post was not clearly not intended to insult or provoke, it was intended to deem an act (or the threatening of one)childish. Which it is.

And well, if that is considered flaming, then I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to speak my mind about anything.
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Old 17th December 2003, 17:18   #29
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OK. Fine. It wasn't flaming then. Just rude, and I didn't want it to develop into a possible flame-war. I saw that coming so I intervened.

That being said, I have already suggested currently available solutions, and I see no further need to carry this discussion on any further.

*WHACKED*
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Old 17th December 2003, 17:21   #30
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quanta67,
You may not be aware that the tv and radio listings are just a directory service. AOL nor Nullsoft is responsible for the content, it's akin to a phonebook containing listings for childrens' entertainers along with more 'adult' entertainment.

Also, you may not have considered that the filter, if implemented, would be dependent on the stream identifying itself as porn. AOL's parental controls work within AOL because AOL has a closed system, internet content can never be filtered 100% effectively. The TV and radio listings are open, and anyone can add their stream information to it, and therefore anyone can abuse it by providing misinformation, ie: Streamname: Dora the Explorer...actual stream content: porn.

I will take this issue to the devs and see if I can get you an official response. Off the top of my head, a good compromise would be where a preference is set that would toggle the listing of streams containing a word from a (editable) list of naughty words.

-=Gonzotek=-

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Old 17th December 2003, 17:25   #31
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Quote:
I will take this issue to the devs and see if I can get you an official response.
LOL. OK Gonzo. We'll leave it open then.

*UN-WHACKED*
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Old 17th December 2003, 17:56   #32
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i do understand that he's a caring father.
i dont understand why he tries to force developers to do something which they don't have to ... i would have expected the word "please".

the internet IS porn. you can't write a letter to microsoft and blame them for showing porn sites in their browsers.
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Old 17th December 2003, 18:10   #33
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Yeah, if you are looking for a good solution to this is to make sure that the porn streams are correctly labled
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Old 17th December 2003, 18:17   #34
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I don't really think this is an issue for debate. There is no such thing as freedom of speech when it comes to kids. My kids will have freedom of speech when they are old enough and have earned it.

I don't buy these arguments about 'civil liberties'... In the UK highly explicit content of this nature is probably illegal anyway (even though you can still obtain it).

I think if you look you will find that there is no bill of rights anywhere in the civilised world that protects children's rights to watch hard core pornography.

When we have a cicumstance where a young 10 year old boy can walk into a shop and buy a magazine depicting the most hardcore sex acts imaginable - and the rest of society deems that acceptable, then I may withdraw my complaint. But certainly not until that day.

I think if you guys think about it, if you think how riduculous defending children's right to see hard core porn really is, you will not view my position as being nearly so unreasonable.

Kind regards,

Q
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Old 17th December 2003, 18:20   #35
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nunzio pwns this thread.

my new favourit moderator.
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Old 17th December 2003, 18:33   #36
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There is a lot of confusion about who provides the content of internet radio/tv. Nullsoft provides the software that enables serving it, and software that plays it, and they provide a directory service to facilitate people finding it. But Nullsoft doesn't provide most of the actual content. Anyone can stream, for free. You, me, Larry Flint, whoever can download the required software and provide video streams that will be listed in Winamp, right this moment. Anyone can provide their information to the directory service. The service will send anyone who asks a list of the currently running streams. Nowhere in the system (or any system) is there a way for the machines to know that what is encoded in the stream is porn, or illeagal in some other way.

I'm not debating the issues of censorship, legality, or morality. I'm simply giving you technical information about how things work. Did you read my previous reply, Quanta67?


Quite simply, if you don't want your kids to see porn on the internet, monitor their computer use and make it clear to them that there are consequences if they do go looking for it and you find out. There will never be a filter capable of blocking 100% of content that you deem inappropriate for your children. That's impossible. So as I said, I'll see what the developers have to say about it, but even if you get your filter, if you count on it being effective you're essentially saying that you trust the filter to substitute for good parenting.

/edit BTW, I am a sysadmin for an elementary school, and take your point of view very seriously. I personally abhor censorship, but we have a content filtering proxy that works so-so. We monitor the students while working and audit the proxy logs, and very often the filter fails and we must manually block sites. Legitimate sites are also often blocked and must be manually removed. Most students never try to go to a forbidden site because they know that they will lose computer privileges for a year if they do....fear of the loss of that has been demostrated to us to be the more effective means of protecting them, rather than the technical solution.

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Old 17th December 2003, 18:44   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by quanta67
I will wait seven days for an appropriate response. Then I will write a letter to a national tabloid newspaper. Then lets see what kind of damage a general moral panic can do to AOL's fortunes in this country.

Kind regards,

GJ
So porn is bad while blackmail is totally acceptable? Your morals need realignment.
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Old 17th December 2003, 18:51   #38
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@Gonzotek

Dude thanks. All I am asking for is perhaps the context word filter and maybe an ability to add channels I find to a blocked channels list. Let me protect this with a password and maybe let me drag it to a folder named 'private' or whatever (just like I can with bookmarks) so that the content is still accessable by me. I think then what we have is not censorship, but simple good parenting. Right now I don't have the choice if I use Winamp if I want to be a good parent or not. I cannot watch my kids 24/7. But with your help I can take steps to protect them.

I hear the advice about not using it. But again this time I paid. So unless Nulsoft can offer me a refund I think it is only fair that I be allowed to continue using what is after all still my favorite software media player.

Kind regards,

Q
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Old 17th December 2003, 18:54   #39
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You paid for it already??? I wasn't aware that the payment system was working yet.

I was away for a while.
But I'm feeling much better now.
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Old 17th December 2003, 18:56   #40
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@norky common, be serious. Are you saying kids should be allowed to see porn? Tell me where in the US consitution this right is protected?

I can tell you exactly where in law it is forbidden.

Q
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