Old 11th December 2002, 01:07   #1
White Raven
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Church

I hate Church. I am not religious, but I am not atheist, either. I do believe there is some kind of 'Greater Force' out there, but I am so sick and tired of people bitching about how their own religions top the rest. Countless wars have happened over the course of history because of one common cause: Religion.

Honestly, just because someone does not believe in Jehovah/Iehovah (Choose your English or Hebrew spelling.) or hasn't read the Qur'an, or hasn't practised Shinto or Buddhism or anything, does that make them any less of a person just because they are not part of your beliefs? Does that give you reason to kill or belittle someone?

In no way at all am I giving offense to any of the religions mentioned above.

And what is with the Church in itself? It hogs money, cheats people, twists their beliefs and fucks with their heads to get some more bucks for their popes and blah.

Yes, Christ existed, yes, he was real, and yes, he did some wonderful things... But does anyone here really believe he was able to feed crowds of people with one loaf of bread? I believe he was a healer, yes. But, I must say that I think a lot of the stories said about him are just that. Stories. Said to glorify him. Some of it has a grain of truth in it, I'm sure. Just... Think with rational minds here.

I have kids in my highschool who are so prissy and caught up in the whole religion thing that they deface any textbooks that mention evolution. Like come on. Get a life. Respect other people's beliefs. I respect that they have a religion like that, and I am happy they have something to cling to.

Then comes the rather unsettling thought that for thinking this way, if all of this is true, I will go to Hell.

If God is really up there and love everyone, why would he damn us, his own children, to an eternity of suffering? No parent I know would impose that upon their children. Or, make thier children butcher another group because the other children 'Weren't theirs.'

The Church and religion has done some bad things in the past, and this is just what I think...

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Old 11th December 2002, 01:53   #2
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I agree with a lot of what you said. I'm an atheist, but I don't look down on people for their religious beliefs. It's when they start forcing those beliefs on me that I start getting mad.
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Old 11th December 2002, 04:42   #3
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Religion is not evil. People are.

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Old 11th December 2002, 04:43   #4
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Re: Church

sgtfuzzbubble99 i agree with u abt forcing religion into u, it is annoying.


Quote:
Originally posted by White_Raven
I have kids in my highschool who are so prissy and caught up in the whole religion thing that they deface any textbooks that mention evolution. Like come on. Get a life. Respect other people's beliefs. I respect that they have a religion like that, and I am happy they have something to cling to.
i agree with this point alot, sometimes u just have to respect other ppls religion, just because u say, no sorry i am not intersted, doesn't mean that i am wrong or i am going to be condemned to hell.

i do not hate the church, BUT what i can't stand are the believers who think they r god and they have the right to judge and to dictate the ppl of this world.

i rest my case.
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Old 11th December 2002, 07:13   #5
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Re: Church

Quote:
Originally posted by White_Raven
Think with rational minds here.
And this is where religion goes tits up for me. No ones realised it doesn't make any sence and bears no relation to reality.

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Old 11th December 2002, 08:38   #6
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Neither has any system Man has ever thought up. What's your point?

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Old 11th December 2002, 09:58   #7
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Man is still trying to find out the truth.

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Old 11th December 2002, 13:02   #8
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God has no religion...
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Old 12th December 2002, 02:02   #9
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The truth is out there... *X-files theme* O_o

What if there is no truth? But then, the truth is that there is no truth, so that means the truth is that there is no truth, and that is the truth.

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Old 14th December 2002, 03:14   #10
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I know a lot of people like you described. These girls who say that because I'm aethiest (I don't usually say I'm aethiest, but rather that I follow a "religion" that only I observe; not only is this an easy way to work around annoying people, its true) that I'll go to hell. But seeing as how I don't believe in hell, how could I go there? And no offense to anyone, but the Mormon kids I know are really aggressive when it comes to people of other religions. In general, I'm against (not against as in violently, I just don't think its right) any organized religion. I think its wrong for people to say they believe in something just because some nut job said it was true. People need to learn to think for themselves.
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Old 14th December 2002, 21:56   #11
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Re: The truth is out there... *X-files theme* O_o

Quote:
Originally posted by White_Raven
What if there is no truth?..
Make your own...
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Old 14th December 2002, 22:07   #12
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Re: Church

Quote:
Originally posted by White_Raven
I hate Church. I am not religious, but I am not atheist, either. I do believe there is some kind of 'Greater Force' out there, but I am so sick and tired of people bitching about how their own religions top the rest. Countless wars have happened over the course of history because of one common cause: Religion.
Isn't that called being agnostic something...

Btw, I am the same way too, I haven't gone to church for years, excluding baptisms, quincenero's etc.

_____________

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Old 15th December 2002, 04:00   #13
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Sad and pathetic

I've never been baptized. Or had a Name Day Ceremony. Uh-oh, looks like I'll go to Hell for that.

Speaking of Hell...Interesting prospect about Hell:

If we are to assume that Hell indeed does exist, then consider the following...

Since most religions proclaim that if you do not practise their own religion, you will go to Hell as punishment. Since no one can practise all religions at one time, we must henceforth draw to the conclusion that everyone goes to Hell.

So no matter how many times you sin, or what you do during life, you will go to Hell. Interesting to think of that, eh? Now how do those 'Born Again Christians' React to that little statement? Of course, now I'm applying scientifical methods and theories to religious doctrations, which is completely unorthodox, but here we are anyways.

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Old 15th December 2002, 21:54   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by babaloulou
I know a lot of people like you described. These girls who say that because I'm aethiest (I don't usually say I'm aethiest, but rather that I follow a "religion" that only I observe; not only is this an easy way to work around annoying people, its true) that I'll go to hell. But seeing as how I don't believe in hell, how could I go there? And no offense to anyone, but the Mormon kids I know are really aggressive when it comes to people of other religions. In general, I'm against (not against as in violently, I just don't think its right) any organized religion. I think its wrong for people to say they believe in something just because some nut job said it was true. People need to learn to think for themselves.
I know all about them Mormons, I use to be one (I think I just heard a sigh from somewhere...oh well).

I'm an atheist. I try to respect other people's beliefs, but I can get pretty mad when people try to force their beliefs on me, tell me that I'm stupid or my beliefs are dumb, or if they say things like "Well, God loves you anyway!" Grr.

As for the 'Hell' thing, I think that's one of, if not the sickest idea ever. To punish someone for all eternity is just wrong, no matter what they've done. How can Heaven truly be the ultimate bliss when you know that other people are suffering, and will be suffering for ever and ever?

As for religion and man not making sense, I could understand a man doing something irrational, but I wouldn't expect that of a God who is "all knowing."

"We are fortunate: we are alive; we are powerful; the welfare of our civilization and our species is in our hands. If we do not speak for Earth, who will? If we are not committed to our own survival, who will be?" -Carl Sagan
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Old 16th December 2002, 00:57   #15
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Just think of it the way I do: if Jesus can forgive Jewish people just for saying that they believe in him, he can forgive me for not going to church. Weird logic, maybe, but it makes it easier to justify not being religious.

Oh yeah, and try going here

*edit* and here
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Old 16th December 2002, 06:01   #16
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I like the esoteric or exodermic explanation. Surprising how my statement above is so similar! (No, I have not read it before now!)

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Old 16th December 2002, 07:28   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by babaloulou
But seeing as how I don't believe in hell, how could I go there?
Why was I not told of this? I no longer believe in Work.

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Old 16th December 2002, 07:31   #18
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Re: Sad and pathetic

Quote:
Originally posted by White_Raven
Since most religions proclaim that if you do not practise their own religion, you will go to Hell as punishment. Since no one can practise all religions at one time, we must henceforth draw to the conclusion that everyone goes to Hell.
But that's assuming that either all religions are true (in which case if you follow one true religion, you will be damned to Hell by another true religion), or that all religions are false (in which case, if you follow any false religion, God will damn you to Hell for not following the one, true, nonexistent religion). If one of these religions are true, and you happen to follow it, you will not go to Hell (if you don't follow this one true religion, you will go to Hell). Alternatively, if the religion which happens to be true doesn't require you to follow it in order to avoid Hell, then you won't go to Hell no matter which religion you follow.

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Old 16th December 2002, 08:06   #19
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True, but every religion has someone who claims "God" spoke to them (some sort of prophet). Since no divine messenger should be accused of lying, is it possible "God" has a hidden agenda for all of us?
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Old 16th December 2002, 10:53   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by zeppelinfr34k
Since no divine messenger should be accused of lying
On what basis do you make that claim?

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Old 16th December 2002, 13:49   #21
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Those fundamentalist christians are good to laugh at

"We think science is interesting and if you disagree, you can fuck off."
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Old 16th December 2002, 15:00   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by hestermofet


On what basis do you make that claim?
The fact that their followers seem to have a penchant for killing people in painful ways.
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Old 16th December 2002, 21:53   #23
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i'm a big fan of pascal's wager.

i go to church and even like it sometimes. I believe in God and the Trinity, etc. i also believe in evolution and natural selection. holy crap! a religious person that doesnt fit your uber-conservative stereotype. come on. if you want people to take your views with any seriousness, dont pigeonhole other people.

missyob made me post this.
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Old 17th December 2002, 01:16   #24
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I can't speak for everyone, but personally I don't have a problem with religion in general. I just wish its followers would leave me the hell alone. I'm not saying that everyone tries to convert you, but the ones that do are the most persistent people I have ever met, and can't understand why anyone wouldn't want to be "saved". Not wanting anyone to practice religion is just as bad as wanting everyone to.
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Old 17th December 2002, 02:00   #25
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O_o

I am in no way 'pigeonholing' your religion, nor anyone who follows it, for that matter. About the evolution and defacing textbooks... There is only an elite group of them who do it at my school, and I mentioned it as a group. If I didn't, I'll reread my post and edit it so that it says so. I'm not stereo-typing religious people at all, merely stating the futility of having such a big outcry, cults, wars, bankruptcies and psychological damage from one (or more) religion. So, if you're adamantly suggesting I am scapegoating you, I deny your claim.

** About the usage of the term 'psychological damage.' Take a look at what the church did to 'Whitify' Native North Americans...

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Old 17th December 2002, 16:55   #26
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Hey white_raven
I like the idea that the real god is sitting up there watching us all, s/he is so awesome and so different to anything that we know or understand that s/he is having a great big laugh at all our puny and insignificant representations of her/imself

S/he doesn’t love us all like her/is own children, in fact we are nothing more than a great experiment in this beings eyes, and its interested to see what’s going to happen.

Then again, I could just be going to hell.
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Old 17th December 2002, 19:39   #27
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Quote:
Get this, I actually asked one of these guys, OK, Dinosaurs fossils - how does that fit into you scheme of life? Let me sit down and strap in.

He said, "Dinosaur fossils? God put those there to test our faith."

Thank God I'm strapped in right now here man.

I think God put you here to test my faith, Dude.

You believe that?

"uh huh."

Does that trouble anyone here? The idea that God.. might be.. fuckin' with our heads? I have trouble sleeping with that knowledge. Some prankster God running around:

"Hu hu ho. We will see who believes in me now, ha ha."

[mimes God burying fossils]

"I am God, I am a prankster."

"I am killing Me."

You know, You die and go to St. Peter...

"Did you believe in dinosaurs?"

"Well, yeah. There was fossils everywhere"

Thuh [trapdoor opens]

"Aaaaaaarhhh!"

"You fuckin idiot."

"Flying lizards, you're a moron. God was fuckin' with you!"

"We think science is interesting and if you disagree, you can fuck off."
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Old 22nd December 2002, 22:59   #28
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Yeah I downloaded that file too. The comedian sounds like Geoff Goldblum to me... Maybe I'm just insane, I dunno.

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Old 26th December 2002, 20:34   #29
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Re: Church

Quote:
Originally posted by White_Raven
I hate Church. I am not religious, but I am not atheist, either. I do believe there is some kind of 'Greater Force' out there, but I am so sick and tired of people bitching about how their own religions top the rest. Countless wars have happened over the course of history because of one common cause: Religion.

Honestly, just because someone does not believe in Jehovah/Iehovah (Choose your English or Hebrew spelling.) or hasn't read the Qur'an, or hasn't practised Shinto or Buddhism or anything, does that make them any less of a person just because they are not part of your beliefs? Does that give you reason to kill or belittle someone?

In no way at all am I giving offense to any of the religions mentioned above.

And what is with the Church in itself? It hogs money, cheats people, twists their beliefs and fucks with their heads to get some more bucks for their popes and blah.

Yes, Christ existed, yes, he was real, and yes, he did some wonderful things... But does anyone here really believe he was able to feed crowds of people with one loaf of bread? I believe he was a healer, yes. But, I must say that I think a lot of the stories said about him are just that. Stories. Said to glorify him. Some of it has a grain of truth in it, I'm sure. Just... Think with rational minds here.

I have kids in my highschool who are so prissy and caught up in the whole religion thing that they deface any textbooks that mention evolution. Like come on. Get a life. Respect other people's beliefs. I respect that they have a religion like that, and I am happy they have something to cling to.

Then comes the rather unsettling thought that for thinking this way, if all of this is true, I will go to Hell.

If God is really up there and love everyone, why would he damn us, his own children, to an eternity of suffering? No parent I know would impose that upon their children. Or, make thier children butcher another group because the other children 'Weren't theirs.'

The Church and religion has done some bad things in the past, and this is just what I think...
War was caused by the people themselves. Since when did Islam's Quaran, or Christianity's Bible float up in the air, grow a mouth and tell you to kill all others. I know for certain that Islam does not preach killing or punishing people of other faiths. I remember from one passage where it tells us that if you have a Jewish or Christian friend, and he is sick, or in need, to be the first to help him and his family.

Also we can't determine whether or not a person is going to hell or not because of his/her religion. There always is a 'worst' and 'best' in a religion(in terms of the actual practice).

As for the Church hogging money and being corrupt-that's all controlled by the people who have become corrupt. God gives us choices. We either do what's right, and recieve a reward in the long run, or do what we know is bad, and prepare to suffer the consequences.

Speaking from the Islamic point of view, we are not God's children. Because he has no children, no equal, no nothing. He is One. We are his creations, and are therefore expected to worship God, for He has created us, humans. I'm not going to get into all the details because I think what I have said is enough to give you a sense of what it comes down to.
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Old 26th December 2002, 22:41   #30
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Re: Re: Church

Quote:
Originally posted by GoldenSphynx
Since when did Islam's Quaran, or Christianity's Bible float up in the air, grow a mouth and tell you to kill all others.
I agree with your statement about the Qur'an not telling people to do that, because I am aware that Islam is a very tolerant religion. However, the Bible does state that if one is not a follower of God, their God, in particular, to kill that person who is not a follower. Do you read history books? Even with the dry, mostly inane and uninformative, watered down scraps of meat off the bone lessons they give us in school, I know well enough to know that religion (namely Christianity and the Vatican, Potestant and otherwise) have been major contributors to war in the past, Even if this is not so today (Which it is still a factor in the Middle East.) I am making an argumentative point.

I am well aware that the Islam in which the Taliban and like-minded cretans practice is indeed not the true Islam, and a twisted interpretation of it developed by a small group of Oxford Scholars who wished to persecute and oppress women. These said Scholars rose up to form a political party and overthrew the previous leader, thus relinquishing a new era of violence towards women. With a twisted version of Islam at it's base.

You must understand, I am not trying to denounce religion totally, just the faulted aspects of it. I must accept that it was written by humans, and no human is ever perfect, so of course there will be flaws.

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Old 28th December 2002, 01:32   #31
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by White_Raven
I agree with your statement about the Qur'an not telling people to do that, because I am aware that Islam is a very tolerant religion. However, the Bible does state that if one is not a follower of God, their God, in particular, to kill that person who is not a follower.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is not at all true. At no point in the Bible does it say that anyone should kill another person because of their religion or for any reason. It is one of the ten commandments that: Thou shalt not kill. So, this is completely bogus. Read the Bible! It NEVER says to kill anyone because of their religion.
As for going to Hell, the reason anyone would go to Hell is because of sin. God is perfect and cannot look upon sin and we are all sinfull and fall short of the glory of God no matter how "good" we are. The only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ and believing that He did come to earth and died on the cross and rose three days later to save us from sin and the consequences of that which is Hell.
I'm not trying to preach to you, I just want you to have all the facts before you believe or not believe in something..


Lata,
Kaz

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Old 28th December 2002, 06:55   #32
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Maybe, I cannot remember if that was in the Bible or not, but it was stated somewhere. I apologize on that aspect.

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Old 1st January 2003, 22:50   #33
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White_Raven, you might have heard it about the fanatics out there. They sort of twist religions around to fit their agendas. It's sad. Religions such as Christianity, Islam, Buddahism, and possibly more are ment to be peaceful. It's almost like there's bad apples everywhere that can spoil the whole bunch...

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