Old 9th September 2011, 00:27   #1
MrSinatra
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BUG? bitrate reporting...

i see this every so often in the ML, esp on shorter files, see screenshot.

i ripped the file as a 256kbps CBR with EAC. as you can see the file info says 256 too. but the ML says 257. odd, why does this happen? is length involved?

i know if its VBR, you can get an avg type number, but these are CBR.

ideas? bug?
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Old 9th September 2011, 01:31   #2
ryerman
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ideas? bug?
Try applying Vbrfix (make sure Skip Non-VBR Files is unchecked) or maybe MP3val.

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Old 9th September 2011, 03:11   #3
MrSinatra
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Ryerman, i think you misunderstand, the problem isn't the file, its winamp. look at the screenshot, winamp disagrees with itself.

i ran mp3val anyway, no errors, but then i didn't expect any. it was ripped as a 256kbps file, not 257. view file info gets it right, ML doesn't.

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Old 9th September 2011, 03:46   #4
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Sorry, but I didn't look at your screenshot carefully enough.
You're right, Winamp does disagree with itself and that is never a good thing.
In the past, I have corrected some files with problematic bitrates and/or lengths by using Vbrfix, not MP3val.

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Old 9th September 2011, 04:07   #5
MrSinatra
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i've used both, but i only use the moonbase ver of vbrfix when mp3val can't get it done.

i can't recall if they ever fixed bitrate reporting for me, but both def do fix length errors.

anyway, EGG / DrO, what do you say?

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Old 9th September 2011, 08:48   #6
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a test file is needed is what i'd say as something isn't right to cause the difference (though i'm not going to put my money on where / what).

-daz
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Old 9th September 2011, 10:44   #7
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here is an example:

http://www.mediafire.com/?aaxd7samrx3tm0j

let me know if you can DL that and if you can reproduce.

i think its an issue with files under a minute, b/c i notice this on such files. i don't know for sure if it happens with longer ones or all shorter ones, or where exactly the length cutoff is.

i have seen it go as high as 261 even tho its a 256. when sorting by bitrate, i see i have at least 100 such misreported ML files, maybe more. i can provide more examples, but my guess is you could sort your ML by bitrate and find your own mp3 examples.

i def think length is involved, and that it perhaps has something to do with the ML doing an avg bitrate calculation for VBRs.

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Old 9th September 2011, 11:03   #8
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just loaded it into the library and it's showing as 256 in all of the views. have even looked at my library and it all appears to be showing correctly as well. so not too sure why you're seeing that.

-daz
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Old 9th September 2011, 11:46   #9
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I show the same inconsistency with the downloaded file.

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Old 9th September 2011, 11:55   #10
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ok, how is this for totally friggin weird... i just went to my ML, and picked 2 257's at random, right clicked, and said "read metadata on items" and the bitrate column updated to 256! weird, wild! (bitrate isn't metadata)

then i did a full watch folders rescan, and refreshed the view. probem still there. then i tested some more files as above, and some switch to 256, and some don't!

DrO, by any chance did you test my file vs an internal 5.63 build? what happens when you test it against a clean, official, unmodded 5.621?

here is one that WOULDN'T change when i read the metadata in ML:

http://www.mediafire.com/?9szqy5irt1z9ji1

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Old 10th September 2011, 11:30   #11
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it was with an internal build though nothing has changed in it wrt tag handling since the last public build (i'd have to make a new install to try out with the public build at some point).

though i can see it with the second file you've attached so would need to check things out a bit more when i get a chance.

-daz
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Old 10th September 2011, 17:11   #12
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well ryerman saw it with the first file linked, while you didn't. so i think that [might] point to a 5.621/5.63 split.

in addition, i am on 5.621, except for the mp3 decoder, which egg gave me like 2 weeks ago to test the TCMP fix, so maybe that explains why when i re-read the metadata on the first file, it "updates." this is all just observational guessing tho.

in any case, i'm glad you can reproduce the issue now.

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Old 11th September 2011, 03:07   #13
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Here's a link to another file that may be problematic to Winamp:

http://www.mediafire.com/?75t0jpypfrzfyz8

This one is VBR and Winamp shows 258 kbps in the Media Library and in the File Info pane, so at least that is consistent. However, 3 other programs (Mp3tag, Moonbeam's Vbrfix, MediaInfo) show 257 kbps. I'm not suggesting that they are correct, but the difference is interesting.

This seems connected to your original question, even if the file is VBR and not CBR.

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Old 11th September 2011, 07:23   #14
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something else odd... in the ML i have a file that lists as 0 seconds, but view file info reports as both 1 second / 38 frames. that seems like another instance of winamp disagreeing with itself, albeit in a different way.

http://www.mp3-converter.com/mp3codec/frames.htm

see the attachment, (its not a zip, just remove .zip from it).

i'm not sure what should happen if a file is less than 38 frames... is 0 better than one for those? probably. but this one reports as 38 and 1sec, so again the ML seems off.
Attached Files
File Type: zip 01 - intro - Copy.mp3.zip (17.5 KB, 315 views)

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Old 12th September 2011, 13:06   #15
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MrSinatra: pm sent with a link to a test build to try out which should resolve the issues seen with all of the test files provided (including ryerman's).

-daz
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Old 12th September 2011, 13:23   #16
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wow, fast fixes DrO! i will test asap, but unfortunately it may be a while, as real life has gotten in the way unfortunately! however, i am excited to see how it is!

any chance these fixes will improve the very short file skipping problem?

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Old 12th September 2011, 13:29   #17
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take your time, only got around to looking at it whilst stone-walling on something else i'm trying to work on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
any chance these fixes will improve the very short file skipping problem?
i highly doubt it as that's due to the output plug-in(s) from what i remember of the issue you're referring to.

-daz
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Old 13th September 2011, 20:36   #18
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hey DrO,

finally got some time to examine this. question: does the dll you sent me on PM include the TCMP fixes egg made? both list as 4.97

ok, so the good news is that this file is much better at getting things right in the ML. the bad news is i still have stragglers.

first off, you have to highlight and "read metadata" on all suspected items in order to update the ML. short of clearing the ML completely, i don't know another way to do it.

secondly, would you believe i had 519 files that the ML reported had a bitrate somewhere between 257-319? of those, almost all changed to the correct bitrate. some didn't. some weren't mp3s or were "real" VBRs, so not applicable, but some are 256 CBRs, that i ripped with EAC, just short.

thirdly, i found some strange behavior on the other end. i have a couple of songs i downloaded that ML and file info both report as vbr 318kbps, however the player when playing reports it as a 320, until the last silent moment, when it goes 32kbps for a split second. i figure this is just the files own weirdness, but i thought i'd report it anyway. (i consider this a file problem of some sort)

similarly, i have some stuff that i am almost certain is true VBR that the info window and ML get correct, but that the player reports as 256 CBR while playing. i suspect these are XING header files. (i consider this a winamp problem)

so anyway...

i have 159 CBR mp3s at 256kbps still mis-reported by the ML as 257 or higher. they all seem to be under 10 seconds long.

i'll try to upload some examples here in a bit...

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Old 14th September 2011, 03:53   #19
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of the 159, none are longer than 15 seconds. most are under 10, but a decent amount are between 10-15secs. here is a 15 sec one:

http://www.mediafire.com/?v8uuo3xu05ruiou

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
similarly, i have some stuff that i am almost certain is true VBR that the info window and ML get correct, but that the player reports as 256 CBR while playing. i suspect these are XING header files. (i consider this a winamp problem)
here's an example of that:

http://www.mediafire.com/?hjefnwndve10jox

i have since found this m4a file that is vbr, but file info doesn't say so. it reports 130, while the ML reports 129.

http://www.mediafire.com/?h26avc1amn4b3fz

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Old 14th September 2011, 08:50   #20
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Quote:
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finally got some time to examine this. question: does the dll you sent me on PM include the TCMP fixes egg made? both list as 4.97
it should do as it was based on the current internal code at the time of building (though i could be wrong, heh).

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first off, you have to highlight and "read metadata" on all suspected items in order to update the ML. short of clearing the ML completely, i don't know another way to do it.
that is the only way to do it (and is how i've been doing it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
thirdly, i found some strange behavior on the other end. i have a couple of songs i downloaded that ML and file info both report as vbr 318kbps, however the player when playing reports it as a 320, until the last silent moment, when it goes 32kbps for a split second. i figure this is just the files own weirdness, but i thought i'd report it anyway. (i consider this a file problem of some sort)
if it is vbr then that would make sense as it works out the average kbps for the whole file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
similarly, i have some stuff that i am almost certain is true VBR that the info window and ML get correct, but that the player reports as 256 CBR while playing. i suspect these are XING header files. (i consider this a winamp problem)
not sure but then this is getting further from what i've got the time and knowledge to work on with the original issue seen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
of the 159, none are longer than 15 seconds. most are under 10, but a decent amount are between 10-15secs. here is a 15 sec one:
am seeing it with that, will try to find a moment to look into what is causing it as it's probably related to the other files you're seeing quirks with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
similarly, i have some stuff that i am almost certain is true VBR that the info window and ML get correct, but that the player reports as 256 CBR while playing. i suspect these are XING header files. (i consider this a winamp problem)
i've had a quick play and that is definitely a vbr file and is reporting things correctly as over half way through the file the bitrate is at 320 though it does sit at 256 a lot. mp3tag also matches with the bitrate reported at 269 which Winamp is showing throughout.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
i have since found this m4a file that is vbr, but file info doesn't say so. it reports 130, while the ML reports 129.
not sure about m4a files at all though can confirm it shows 129 in the ml and 130 in the alt+3 dialog (matching mp3tag).

-daz
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Old 14th September 2011, 09:07   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
if it is vbr then that would make sense as it works out the average kbps for the whole file.
right, its just weird that it is VBR. DL'd files are always freaky, its amazing how crappy some tools are that make them.

Quote:
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am seeing it with that, will try to find a moment to look into what is causing it as it's probably related to the other files you're seeing quirks with.
right on. i can try the next fix and upload any stragglers from it if any remain. while all are under 15secs, its important to note that a good many files which are under 15secs were fixed. so its not ONLY shortness, but i think shortness combined with something else.

Quote:
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not sure but then this is getting further from what i've got the time and knowledge to work on with the original issue seen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
i've had a quick play and that is definitely a vbr file and is reporting things correctly as over half way through the file the bitrate is at 320 though it does sit at 256 a lot. mp3tag also matches with the bitrate reported at 269 which Winamp is showing throughout.
yeah, you're right, i should have been more careful. whats odd is thats an album i DL'd, (a very cool one, see here) where the other tracks i spot checked are VBR but the rate changes constantly in the player screen. oh well, no winamp problem here in any case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
not sure about m4a files at all though can confirm it shows 129 in the ml and 130 in the alt+3 dialog (matching mp3tag).

-daz
well i'm not too concerned over it, but i would ask you to please log it officially in the Devs bug tracker so its a known issue.

don't miss this:

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=334731

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Old 14th September 2011, 09:16   #22
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Quote:
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right, its just weird that it is VBR. DL'd files are always freaky, its amazing how crappy some tools are that make them.
that's the fun of downloading music

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
i'm not going to get involved in that issue and as i've commented in other threads about short file handling, it's a fundamental design flaw with how the system works. yes it probably shouldn't crash though i've not seen it crash on short ( < 1sec files) in years.

-daz
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Old 14th September 2011, 18:31   #23
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i understand, i just figured a crash should be reported and i can reproduce it 100% of the time. i tried some things on it which i'll report in that thread. i was also hoping that by demonstrating the crash, which i haven't been able to reproduce on ANY other app, Benski would have his pride hurt ...and prioritize the fix, which is necessary anyway to fix the skipping short file issue.

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