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View Poll Results: You want max speed ripping free?
yes 27 50.94%
no 26 49.06%
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Old 2nd November 2003, 17:35   #1
Andrea6187
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free Rip in winamp5

You want winamp5 ripping at max speed?
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Old 2nd November 2003, 17:39   #2
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I see no point really. WA5 won't have full speed ripping, so I'll use EAC. No big deal.
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Old 2nd November 2003, 18:26   #3
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read it http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....13#post1128513

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Old 3rd November 2003, 05:41   #4
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if it bothers you THAT much, just use EAC.

nullsoft isn't going to give YOU something that costs THEM money.
live with it.
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Old 3rd November 2003, 06:56   #5
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you give them money or
a) you use free alternatives (cdex, fb2k, wmp, itunes)
b) you wait for somebody to write a plugin that will encode mp3s without speed limit (if the wa5 sdk allows people to write encoder plugins for vorbis and cie.)
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Old 3rd November 2003, 09:59   #6
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*sigh*
What kind of loosers would use Winamp as a ripper, anyway? Use CDex if u want a full featured ripper. Lots o people are scared off from proper rippers when they first see EAC and moves down to WiMP, RealONE, iTunes and Musicmatch, but try CDex anyway. It's easier than EAC but it still has all the LAME and OGG-settings... And it's OpenSource!
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Old 3rd November 2003, 17:08   #7
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I don't rip CD's that often. So I settle for using the diskwriter to write wavs then go back over the wavs with the LAME mp3 encoder output plug-in. Get my own VBR shit and I'm quite happy with it. It still works in wa5.

So I'm not complaining
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Old 3rd November 2003, 17:20   #8
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Well I haven't bought a cd in like 10 years, so cd ripping isn't a big thing to me anyways. Besides, it takes 15 seconds to download an mp3 using K++ anyways, and I doubt any ripper program could do that faster.
But it sure would be nice if cd ripping were free in Winamp5 though, as I don't see the point in using a 3rd party app for ripping if the player a person is using to play the cd in the first place, can do it. Like if you're already listening to a cd in Winamp, why would a person want to launch a seperate program. Seems odd to me, lol.
But if you have no choice, as in Winamp not doing it without a person paying for that option, then sure, a 3rd party app would be necessary.
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Old 3rd November 2003, 17:21   #9
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There is Another Alternative:
Use Winamp 2.95!!!
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Old 4th November 2003, 10:37   #10
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In a philosophical point of view, full speed ripping should be free.

Why ?
Because downloading mp3s on the internet for free is illegal, while ripping your own CDs to mp3 or anything else is legal !

So it would appear logical to 'encourage' people to rip their cds instead of downloading

I know it may appear a bit demagogic to say that, but for a company like AOL, such a point of view may appear a bit logical, because as a big ISP, they don't have interest that their clients download mp3s from the net.
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Old 4th November 2003, 12:34   #11
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if CDex is a free ripper, why can't winamp just use whatever Cdex uses to encode mp3 and use that for free as well?

No sig here folks.
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Old 4th November 2003, 18:03   #12
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Just because something is free doesn't mean it is legal. The patents on MP3 is owned by FgH, in order to use them Nullsoft needs a license.

http://www.mp3licensing.com/help/developer.html#1
 
Old 4th November 2003, 18:08   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by eminemfan
There is Another Alternative:
Use Winamp 2.95!!!
Yep, that would work, or even Winamp5 Alph 1, which in my opinion was perfect. Was beter than WA5 Beta 1, but Beta 2 is awsome, other than not being able to rip that is.
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Old 4th November 2003, 19:17   #14
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Yes, but 2.92, 2.95 and 5.0 alpha are also deemed illegal,
because they were leaked and never intended for public use.
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Old 4th November 2003, 20:52   #15
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one of the main things about the file format OGG is that it is free to create files, you have to pay no license fees...

So.... why not allow maxiumum speed burning of only OGG files, which Winamp naturally plays? Just a question, a pondering for the masses to think about...

In reality, OGG and MP3 are pretty much the same, however one will cost you (you being either the customer or the supplier). Why can't Winamp offer free full speed OGG burning?
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Old 4th November 2003, 22:47   #16
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Re: free Rip in winamp5

Quote:
Originally posted by Andrea6187
[B]You want winamp5 ripping at max speedè/b]?
I've said ripping only at max speed,not mp3 ripping
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Old 5th November 2003, 02:25   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by gt24
one of the main things about the file format OGG is that it is free to create files, you have to pay no license fees...

So.... why not allow maxiumum speed burning of only OGG files, which Winamp naturally plays? Just a question, a pondering for the masses to think about...
I totally agree with that. Ripping ogg's at full speed should be allowed.
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Old 5th November 2003, 06:46   #18
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hmm... interesting. i never realized that mp3 is patented.

It reminds me of GIF, and i see the beginings of mp3 going the same way. GIF has a patented technology in it, and therefore requires lisence fees to distribute. Then PNG came around, opensource, flexible, and overall better than GIF. Slowly, it is catching on. It is already a wide-spread format, though not the most popular (yet, i predict). I think it possible that mp3 may go the same way as GIF, to be replaced by Ogg Vorbis.

(side note- the proper term is Ogg Vorbis for the audio format. "Ogg" is just a container format, similar to avi. "Vorbis" is the actual audio compression. It would be better to abbreviate to "Vorbis" than "Ogg", since Ogg could be confused with other things contained in Ogg streams, such as FLAC, Speex, etc.)

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Old 5th November 2003, 07:33   #19
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No, I'll stick with Exact Audio Copy.
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Old 5th November 2003, 17:38   #20
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First: This poll is silly and it's results meaningless. You might as well have a poll like: "Should everyone have everything for free?"

Quote:
Originally posted by auhsor
I totally agree with that. Ripping ogg's at full speed should be allowed.
Yes, I don't understand this either. I can understand licensing issues with mp3, but not with ogg. Anyone know the hold up on this?

They say if you play a Microsoft CD backwards you hear satanic messages. That's nothing, if you play it forwards it installs Windows.
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Old 7th November 2003, 09:38   #21
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And why bother creating a pro version, almost everyone know that there will be cracks/patches/keygens which will unlock it.

But if it's not very expensive I even think of buying it... Not that I want to crack Winamp..

Quote:
Originally posted by killswitch1968
First: This poll is silly and it's results meaningless. You might as well have a poll like: "Should everyone have everything for free?"
The answer to that question will be Yes. Because if it's free then we don't need ANY money. But then you don't own it, because it has no value!
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Old 7th November 2003, 09:44   #22
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Maybe AOL should sell WApro-licenses on CD-ROM in normal book/computer stores. I know lots of people who would like yo purchase WApro, but don't own a VISA-card.
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Old 7th November 2003, 12:03   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by killswitch1968
Yes, I don't understand this either. I can understand licensing issues with mp3, but not with ogg. Anyone know the hold up on this?
The AOL legal dept arn't happy about ogg vorbis encoding, thus they forced winamp to pull support for it (if you look hard enough, you'll be able to find the enc_vorbis.dll required for vorbis ripping)

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Old 8th November 2003, 10:05   #24
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Can anybody tell me and others WHY AOL LEGAL DEPT ARN'T HAPPY ABOUT OGG VORBIS ENCODING??? Because, to be honest, I still cannot understand why Vorbis support has been removed? What is wrong with Ogg? Maybe if it hadn't been free it wouldn't have been removed??? - maybe my last sentence sounds silly but it seems to be 100% true! Winamp looks like free software where can be implemented only commercial and not free stuffs.
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Old 8th November 2003, 12:36   #25
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i've never heard of any legal issues surrounding Ogg Vorbis.... perhaps it's due to its being open source? and that's controversial? (is it?)

I'll never use WA for ripping, but seems silly not to support a free format, while supporting a patented format.

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Old 8th November 2003, 19:05   #26
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Well, well Boys and Girls! This was a long and cumbersome thread.
I almost fell asleep. Yawn...

AOL doesn't like Ogg Vorbis cos' it's free. AOL wanna make money. They can't make money on Vorbis, so they kick it out. Simple, huh!?

There are many years since Winamp was Shareware,
and now we have the possibility to pay for it again. Whoaw!!
I think it would be nice to pay some bucks to Nullsoft.
But how much money does Nullsoft get from it? Wouldn't AOL
eat up most of it anyway...
If I possesed a VISA/MASTER-card I would have payed for it.


For ripping I use NERO Burning Rom MPEG-4 (AAC) encoder and ripper.
That sounds great (though not free).

Winamp5 rulez anyway... :-)
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Old 8th November 2003, 19:35   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by saivert
AOL doesn't like Ogg Vorbis cos' it's free. AOL wanna make money. They can't make money on Vorbis, so they kick it out. Simple, huh!?
Nope. Wrong!

Read again
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....13#post1128513
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....hreadid=154054
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Old 9th November 2003, 00:55   #28
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Originally posted by DJ Egg:
"Ogg Vorbis may be free, but you still need a license from xiph to use ogg encoding in applications. Apparently, some complications arose regarding this matter."

It works fine as long as Winamp uses the LGPL license. But that's not going to happen does it???
xiph uses the GNU Public License (GPL) which states that any software
using Ogg Vorbis should make the source code to Ogg Vorbis freely available and that no attempt is made to limit the user in this way.
Thanks!
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Old 9th November 2003, 01:17   #29
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Yup. In one!
...kind of
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Old 9th November 2003, 17:02   #30
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Even if .OGG has legal problems, and .MP3 requires a license, why is the .WAV ripping still speed-limited? The only reason that I can think of, is to encourage people to buy the Pro version which has the MP3 encoding, but I thought this went mainly towards the MP3 license. I also read somewhere on here, from a mod I think, that Nullsoft would prefer not to have to charge a fee if they could.

It doesn't bother me much, I'm just interested in why they want to cripple the WAV ripping speed slightly unless you register.
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Old 9th November 2003, 17:08   #31
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winamp licences the ripping technology from someone, they set the precedent on how fast you can rip for free.

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Old 9th November 2003, 17:57   #32
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You can use DiskWriter Output to rip to WAV, at top speed and for free.
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Old 10th November 2003, 00:51   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Egg
You can use DiskWriter Output to rip to WAV, at top speed and for free.
Or you can just use the lovely freeware ripper Exact Audio Copy.

Rip with read error checking & notification in Secure Mode, or quickly with Burst Mode. And it has tagging support, the ability to encode to any format you have a binary for (LAME MP3, Ogg Vorbis, Musepack MPC, etc).

Frankly, I could care less about ripping support in a media PLAYER. It's inevitably going to be toned-down from a dedicated standalone program.

EDIT: Oops, HTML no work here.
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Old 10th November 2003, 02:38   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by sanderev66
And why bother creating a pro version, almost everyone know that there will be cracks/patches/keygens which will unlock it.
LOL hasn't it occured to anyone? I hate to sound like a cynic (actually I love it but I always say that anyway ) but maybe that's exactly what AOL is expecting... "we'll just put in a little reg thing, so that everyone will get the keygen and get all the features, but it'll be enough to keep those damn licensors from Fraunhofer off our backs".

No I'm not condoning warez <insert disclamer about this being a joke>
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Old 10th November 2003, 03:07   #35
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I don't think Pro's potential features are limited just to CD ripping. From what I understood, registering will give access to future services not announced or implemented yet. Things like DVD codecs, which currently are only available in paid software. You don't buy PowerDVD or WinDVD for a fancy software DVD player, you're paying a liscense fee to use an MPAA approved DVD decoder.

Even Windows Media Player won't work with DVDs unless you buy an Intervideo, Cyberlink, etc. decoder.

Honestly, a DVD video decoder is the only thing I'd pay for Winamp Pro to get. As was said countless times already, you can use Exact Audio Copy, CDex, Freerip MP3, LAME with the RazorLAME frontend, etc., never having to bother with Winamp. But what you can't do is view a DVD movie in Winamp because of the DMCA and MPAA deciding what we can legally do with the products we've paid for.
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Old 10th November 2003, 03:17   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Carnicero
Honestly, a DVD video decoder is the only thing I'd pay for Winamp Pro to get. As was said countless times already, you can use Exact Audio Copy, CDex, Freerip MP3, LAME with the RazorLAME frontend, etc., never having to bother with Winamp. But what you can't do is view a DVD movie in Winamp because of the DMCA and MPAA deciding what we can legally do with the products we've paid for.
Correct me if I'm wrong, since I don't use Winamp for video, but since Winamp uses directshow for video, surely if you get the Fraunhofer directshow filters from doom9 then you can play DVDs in winamp already?
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Old 12th November 2003, 08:29   #37
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well, i'd like to go back to the legal issues of using Ogg Vorbis.

Namely, i'd like to point out that there are NONE WHATSOEVER.
Quote:
From Xiph.org website
Xiph.org's Vorbis software libraries (libvorbis and vorbisfile) are distributed under a BSD-like license; these libraries may be used by any application, Open or proprietary, linked or incorporated in whole, so long as acknowledgement is made to Xiph.org Foundation when using our codec source in whole or in derived works. See the file 'COPYING' in the source for all the details.

All other portions of xiph.org's reference Vorbis software are distributed under the (GNU) Library General Public License (LGPL).

Because the specification is open, third parties are welcome (and encouraged) to implement third party Vorbis software under other licenses using xiph.org's reference source as an authoritative reference.
Note that BSD-style lisences have no restriction on derived works becoming proprietary.

That puts holes in ashibaka's analysis in the forum linked by DJ Egg earlier.

Still possible that Nullsoft is being paid to use AAC instead (as ashibaka guesses), but this makes little sense to me. someone else could easily write an enc_vorbis.dll for the ripper, and something tells me Nullsoft would gladly make it "featured plugin of all eternity, or at least a long time"

I would like a real explaination.

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Old 12th November 2003, 08:39   #38
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Furthermore....

Quote:
Originally posted by saivert
Originally posted by DJ Egg:
"Ogg Vorbis may be free, but you still need a license from xiph to use ogg encoding in applications. Apparently, some complications arose regarding this matter."

It works fine as long as Winamp uses the LGPL license. But that's not going to happen does it???
xiph uses the GNU Public License (GPL) which states that any software
using Ogg Vorbis should make the source code to Ogg Vorbis freely available and that no attempt is made to limit the user in this way.
Thanks!
Simply not true. as i said above, the Vorbis libs are BSD-Style, and reference software is Lesser GPL. No need for Winamp to use GPL.

So, all this, and we're no closer to figuring out why enc_vorbis.dll was pulled.

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Old 12th November 2003, 08:47   #39
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The last I heard it is being held up by the AOL Legal dept.

(The top part I know, the rest of this is to the best of my knowlage in an attempt to explain why)

The Vorbis decoder was held back for the same reasons. Just because Xiph says the encoder is patent free, doesn't mean it is actually so. If Nullsoft was to include the Vorbis encoder and at a later date it is proved part of the Vorbis standard is covered under a pre-existing patent AOL could be caught in trouble. To my knowledge Xiph has no legal proof that the encoder is patent free and therefore AOL has no real protection if it is not. In order to then have it included the AOL Legal department must go over it and verify it is patent free and they face no risk of future litigation.

The EXACT same thing was true for in_vorbis. It was out there for a LONG time before AOL gave the okay to include it in the Winamp Installer as an official plug.


AAC is licensed by AOL from Dolby. Dolby owns the patents and the legal responsibility that comes with the licensing. If at a later date it is shown the Dolby is violating some patent with their AAC implementation it is Dolby's ass on the fire, not AOL.


Once again, Open Source doesn't mean Patent Free.
 
Old 12th November 2003, 09:08   #40
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@WHEREamI
Yeah, whether GPL, LGPL or BSD, it's all open source... but different.
http://www.opensource.org/licenses/bsd-license.php
http://www.vorbis.com/faq.psp#flic
http://www.xiph.org/licenses/bsd/
[ummm . . . not sure what my point is here, or if there even is one, lol]


Aah . . . the patent issue . . . nice one Sawg . . . cheers !!!!

Phew, at last! w00t!

Now peeps, in the meantime...
either use the vorbis encoder we've provided,
and be grateful, or stfu
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