Old 20th July 2006, 16:28   #1
tuckerm
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Getting a Nak 100 Error? Read me before posting...

Are you getting this error:

<07/19/06@16:00:41> [yp_add] yp.shoutcast.com added me successfully
<07/19/06@17:00:42> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave error (nak)
<07/19/06@17:00:42> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave extended error (100)

Many people have and It's not you whos screwed, it's the yp.

Nak 100 means SHOUTcast is broken, not your setup.

Your not being listed but your still broadcasting. Your listen links are http://youriphere:8000/listen.pls. To get your *puplic* ip, go to www.whatismyip.com. If you want to get around this, change your port base, save, and then kill\restart your shoutcast DNAS and then it should be listed. The staff is working on fixing the problem as of this momment.


Please Note:
If your having any other Nak errors, please take a read Here.
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Old 20th July 2006, 16:43   #2
laptophfx
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Thank You Very Much for the Update "tuckerm".
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Old 21st July 2006, 15:49   #3
CraigF
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Actually, I'm told that NAK 100 is part of the anti-hammer system the YP uses. So in some cases it could well be the stream at fault.

One avenue of investigation may be to see if your DNAS is touching the YP too frequently (hammering). Perhaps its an issue with the new dnas release?

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Old 21st July 2006, 16:41   #4
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CraigF.

That was an asumption on my part as well since many new streamers will connect/disconnect attempting to get listed which would be hammering the yp. I refered to that in another post 'noobs bringing up test streams and connecting and disconnecting to fix other yp issues'

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Old 21st July 2006, 18:02   #5
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Hi Craig,

This could be a very possible idea. I was doing some looking into this issue myself and have made a few posts in various threads.

Originally I ended up disconnecting for a while, reconencting and after a few restarts of the DNAS the tester would connect and the stream would re-list however after coming home the next night it had run into the same issue and the tester did not connect no matter how many times I tried.

Secondly I then started looked into DNS after many threads talking about YP servers having synchronization issues.

However after this I pondered why some of the bigger stations were not having these issues that I was having and connected to a few of them yesterday and checked the versions of all their relays and 90% I'd say of the 10 or so stations I checked were still on 1.9.5 and since they are all majority cluster situations if the 1.9.5 DNAS is the "Hub" then that may be why the few 1.9.7 DNAS's I saw were still listing.

So you could be right, it could very well be an issue in the new 1.9.7 version any idea what the icy-tchfrq is set to in the two versions?

Regards,
Jason

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Old 22nd July 2006, 16:50   #6
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I fixed My Server !!

Hey Hey,

Ok I have 2 encoders threw 2 diff. stream companys for my station, and both of them are not showing on shoutcast at all anymore, and both was..So this told me it couldnt have been a stream misconfig problem cause by me..

Now I also have a shoutcase dns server I use for new dj testing. I open the sc dns and started it then took my dj tool and streamed the dj on air on my station threw it and waited, and waited and all it would do was show yp error,

then I downloaded the NEW 1.9.7 DNS server and configed it and restarted the stream, then waited 5 mins and BOOM was listed again..Then I informed my stream company of my finding and they are working on chnaging now as they said.

I need solid stats for marketing levels and I will have them one way or the other so if you are paying someone tlel them they need to upgrade to the 1.9.7 DNS if they wont my advise is to find someone that will or is already on it..If you running your strema ff your own server then upgrade is all you need to do
WILD
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Old 22nd July 2006, 17:15   #7
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Re: I fixed My Server !!

Quote:
Originally posted by DJ_WILD__WSR
Hey Hey,

Ok I have 2 encoders threw 2 diff. stream companys for my station, and both of them are not showing on shoutcast at all anymore, and both was..So this told me it couldnt have been a stream misconfig problem cause by me..

Now I also have a shoutcase dns server I use for new dj testing. I open the sc dns and started it then took my dj tool and streamed the dj on air on my station threw it and waited, and waited and all it would do was show yp error,

then I downloaded the NEW 1.9.7 DNS server and configed it and restarted the stream, then waited 5 mins and BOOM was listed again..Then I informed my stream company of my finding and they are working on chnaging now as they said.

I need solid stats for marketing levels and I will have them one way or the other so if you are paying someone tlel them they need to upgrade to the 1.9.7 DNS if they wont my advise is to find someone that will or is already on it..If you running your strema ff your own server then upgrade is all you need to do :)
WILD
I can prove this is false because I upgraded as soon as 1.9.7 release came out and ran into the problems, you are most likely just lucky that you were able to re-list after a while. I was able to take down the DNAS and restart a few times and get re-listed, however eventually it will become permanent.

It's a directory tester issue most likely in relation to what Craig said, hammering YP which is causing the directory tester to block the server in some way shape or form. You can resolve it usually by changing the port of the DNAS and you will get re-listed until it runs into the same problems.

I have re-verted back to 1.9.5 from 1.9.7 and am able to re-list using a different port and have been streaming using 1.9.5 fine so far, if Craig is correct moving to 1.9.7 is going to be worse as it seems like there may be a lesser yp listing frequency.

The suggestions I have found is, have a stable stream source, firewall rules configured correctly and avoid excessive DJ logon/off's. This should at least decrease your chances of having to frequently change ports.

Regards,
Jason

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Old 22nd July 2006, 18:12   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by CraigF
Actually, I'm told that NAK 100 is part of the anti-hammer system the YP uses. So in some cases it could well be the stream at fault.
Certainly. But dropping a server port for 2+ months over one bad night at a Data Center seems a bit drastic. If it is an "anti-hammer" system, it's not very well designed. It should at least release the block after 24 hours...
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Old 22nd July 2006, 18:45   #9
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I was told that nak 100's were caused by not enough people doing the rain dance.

Then hackerdork told me it was caused by not enough people speaking Klingon.

Now I am all confused. Guess I'll have to do both!
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Old 22nd July 2006, 22:35   #10
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Re: Getting a Nak 100 Error? Read me before posting...

Quote:
Originally posted by tuckerm
Are you getting this error:

<07/19/06@16:00:41> [yp_add] yp.shoutcast.com added me successfully
<07/19/06@17:00:42> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave error (nak)
<07/19/06@17:00:42> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave extended error (100)

Many people have and It's not you whos screwed, it's the yp.

Nak 100 means SHOUTcast is broken, not your setup.

Your not being listed but your still broadcasting. Your listen links are http://youriphere:8000/listen.pls. To get your *puplic* ip, go to www.whatismyip.com. If you want to get around this, change your port base, save, and then kill\restart your shoutcast DNAS and then it should be listed. The staff is working on fixing the problem as of this momment.


Please Note:
If your having any other Nak errors, please take a read Here.
Besides up-grading to the new 1.9.7 of shoutcast, I have changed nothing else in my two streams for the last few years. My relay stream is the one getting the NAK 100, and I am hoping that your post is true. With that said, my station is waiting for a fix without having to change ports.
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Old 22nd July 2006, 22:58   #11
tuckerm
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Tag said that they were working on it 2-3 weeks ago, thats the last we've heard.

@craigf: would deppy know anything about this?
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Old 23rd July 2006, 16:55   #12
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Changing DNAS versions doesn't work.

Changing ports doesn't work.

Well, it works and then stops working again so it's a waste of time. The problem is clearly on the shoutcast end of things as many of us were working just fine and then one day it quit working for us.

I've used 1.95 and 1.97, both work for a bit and then stop. Something I have noticed (this is pure speculation) is that only 128k streams have been affected? Can anyone else prove this wrong? My other bitrate streams are showing just fine.

Actually the more I think about it, it seems to be failing on any bitrate that clusters (my 24 isn't a cluster).

Anyway, an update from someone that actually works with the source would be nice. It almost seems like this is a serious loyalty test (of which I admit I'm starting to fail at). Please, no flames... it's free, I don't have to use it, blah blah blah.
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Old 23rd July 2006, 17:12   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Trekkan
Please, no flames... it's free, I don't have to use it, blah blah blah.
You're wasting your time......
There are only faggets overhere.....
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Old 23rd July 2006, 17:16   #14
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Hi Trekkan,

I can only say I am currently and was previously running 64Kbit, used 1.9.7 and got de-listed. I was using no cluster when I was using 1.9.7 and got blocked from the YP.

I am currently using 1.9.5 for 3 days as opposed to 12 hours and getting blocked with 1.9.7 however I am now using a cluster, different port on the original server and both are using 1.9.5

I'll see how I go.

Regards,
Jason

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Old 23rd July 2006, 17:17   #15
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Trekkan: you might be correct about only the 128k streams being caught up in all of this. I will occassionally let one of my 64k aac+ streams hit SHOUTcast to see how things are going and I have never had half of these problems that people are complaining about....

edit: well, seeing the previous post, I guess not. However, because I rarely let my streams touch the yp, maybe it is indeed a hammering problem....
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Old 23rd July 2006, 18:39   #16
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Well I have had this problem on and off for months. Server version makes no difference.

In my case the relays get listed but the master server doesnt. Problem being that the master server displays the correct show title and the relays dont for some reason. There aren't any other ports that need to be routed are there? We broadcast on port 8000 so I have tcp and udp enabled on 8000 and 8001.

Talking about ports, in the server config it mentions secondary yp ports but says "We're actively working on re-opening port 666, but as of release the only working port is port 80". Is there a different yp port I can try yet?

All the best

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Old 23rd July 2006, 18:45   #17
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Getting the Nak 100 error has little or less to do with port 80 or 666
but with changing the default 8000 port to another one on your system

change default port to 9234(*) and see if you get rid of the NAK 100 error.

* example

Each Thursday a new show on Celtica Radio with Darkwave music.
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Old 23rd July 2006, 19:03   #18
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I changed the default ports already on every server, it helped for less than 24 hours and the problem started again. Some people have mentioned disconnects and reconnects being an issue. I've checked the logs, that isn't an issue with my streams.
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Old 23rd July 2006, 20:08   #19
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Ok I have changed the port that our master stream works on, and it seems to be working, SO FAR. The servers now appear as a cluster, although shoutcast is taking the stream title from the relay and not from the master, which is what i was trying to achieve. If anyone can point me in the direction of a thread on wrong stream titles, it would be appreciated. I have looked but not found anything that helps.

I will keep you posted if yp touch stops working again.

All the best

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Old 23rd July 2006, 22:35   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Trekkan
I changed the default ports already on every server, it helped for less than 24 hours and the problem started again.
how strange

I changed port on the one server that gave me the error over 3 weeks ago and never seen any error again

than there must be other issues on your system.

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Old 23rd July 2006, 22:39   #21
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I'm willing to hear any suggestions as to what they might be. As I said, all of them were working fine until this happened to everyone and after that... nothing works. And as most admins, I don't make it a habit to change things if they are working, and they were working.
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Old 24th July 2006, 11:00   #22
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I've changed my port from 8000 to 8002 and everthing works like a charm now.
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Old 24th July 2006, 13:59   #23
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Ok, so lets run through some of the usefull comments in this thread since my last post, and go over some stuff again for clarity.

---

NAK 100 is spat out by the YP as a response once a threshold has been reached in the touch frequency. I do not know what this limit is, but it is stated that this is an attempt to stop people from hammering the YP with listing attempts.

If you get the NAK 100, you are delisted. This delisting is automatic, and not part of the banning system usually discussed here. Thus, to my knowledge, it is not on a subnet basis, and not permanent.

The ban is specific to the host/port combination. Thus, moving baseport will circumvent this temporary ban. HOWEVER, the cause still remains, so you can expect to see the NAK 100 response return on your new port, unless the cause can be located and corrected.

As has been stated, I am concerned that this is an issue with the latest DNAS. The problem with this issue is that circumstance is hard to place due to there being multiple other YP issues at the time of release. To our knowledge, the YP should now be working correctly. The NAK 100 issue appears seperate to the other issues prior to the latest DNAS release.

Responses above seem to indicate that it may be an issue with the upgrade. As a method of narrowing down the issue further, if you are currently receiving the error since upgrading to the new DNAS. Please state your platform. It may be that this is a platform specific issue like the lookup errors.

I am willing to make the assumption that this isnt a full blown yp issue since there are very few reports of errors compared to the number of streams out there in the wild that remain listed.

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Old 24th July 2006, 14:50   #24
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Craig,

I think the problem is that the "ban" IS permanent. We have serveral instances of servers that received the NAK... weeks of no broadcasting does not clear it. The ONLY solution is changing ports. This has happened with BOTH versions of the DNAS 1.9.5 and 1.9.7 -- those reporting that is occurs mroe frequently with 1.9.7 are only experiencing coincidence.
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Old 24th July 2006, 14:58   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoab
You're wasting your time......
There are only faggets overhere.....
If you have nothing usefull to contribute to this thread than how about you leave. We're trying to work through a solution and posting "there are only faggets overhere" isnt helping anything now is it.
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Old 24th July 2006, 14:59   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by FS-Randy
Craig,

I think the problem is that the "ban" IS permanent. We have serveral instances of servers that received the NAK... weeks of no broadcasting does not clear it. The ONLY solution is changing ports. This has happened with BOTH versions of the DNAS 1.9.5 and 1.9.7 -- those reporting that is occurs mroe frequently with 1.9.7 are only experiencing coincidence.
I agree. Randy, I ran tests this morning. I'll email you the results.
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Old 24th July 2006, 15:13   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoab
There are only faggets overhere
faggets? If you're going to insult a group of people, at least try to spell correctly - or you may end up looking like a complete idiot.
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Old 24th July 2006, 15:24   #28
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rofls
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Old 24th July 2006, 15:54   #29
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CraigF,

for what it is worth, I have been archiving my DNAS logs when I let it loose to touch the yp. As luck would have it, I have logs from both 1.9.5 and 1.9.7. Anyway, the time interval that DNAS attempts to touch the yp are approximately the same as recorded by the logs.

So, it might be possible that the new dnas is not hammering the yp anymore than dnas 1.9.5.... unless 1.9.5 was walking a very fine line (there are a few seconds different between the two version, but one would think that the few second difference is associated more with error than anything else and that we would not be so unlucky to be in the zone where a few seconds is the difference between not hammering and hammering the yp.).
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Old 24th July 2006, 16:17   #30
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I had the problem on both 1.95 and 1.97(I upgraded to 1.97 specifically in hopes it would fix this problem). It's not platform specific as my primary is on Windows and the relays are Linux.

After changing ports, it worked for as I said, less than 24 hours, then stopped again. It's been weeks since I've made any changes (updated to 1.97) and I am still not listed.

The 24k stream that I have is showing however and has never delisted at all.

Below is the information from earlier today on two different servers, these two are two different relays that are not working. The second set of information is really interesting since it shows it's added, but it'll never show in the YP. Other than some listener connections, there are no other server messages to indicate any other problems.

Hope this information helps.

Server: http://213.186.43.150:8200
Platform/Version: SHOUTcast Server Version 1.9.5/Linux
<07/24/06@16:43:49> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave error (nak)
<07/24/06@16:43:49> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave extended error (100)


Server: http://207.210.90.107:8110
Platform/Version: SHOUTcast Server Version 1.9.7/Linux

<07/24/06@08:21:20> [yp_add] yp.shoutcast.com added me successfully
<07/24/06@09:21:20> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave error (nak)
<07/24/06@09:21:20> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave extended error (100)
<07/24/06@09:26:20> [yp_add] yp.shoutcast.com added me successfully
<07/24/06@10:26:19> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave error (nak)
<07/24/06@10:26:19> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave extended error (100)
<07/24/06@10:31:19> [yp_add] yp.shoutcast.com added me successfully
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Old 24th July 2006, 19:07   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by CraigF
Ok, so lets run through some of the usefull comments in this thread since my last post, and go over some stuff again for clarity.

---

NAK 100 is spat out by the YP as a response once a threshold has been reached in the touch frequency. I do not know what this limit is, but it is stated that this is an attempt to stop people from hammering the YP with listing attempts.

If you get the NAK 100, you are delisted. This delisting is automatic, and not part of the banning system usually discussed here. Thus, to my knowledge, it is not on a subnet basis, and not permanent.

The ban is specific to the host/port combination. Thus, moving baseport will circumvent this temporary ban. HOWEVER, the cause still remains, so you can expect to see the NAK 100 response return on your new port, unless the cause can be located and corrected.

As has been stated, I am concerned that this is an issue with the latest DNAS. The problem with this issue is that circumstance is hard to place due to there being multiple other YP issues at the time of release. To our knowledge, the YP should now be working correctly. The NAK 100 issue appears seperate to the other issues prior to the latest DNAS release.

Responses above seem to indicate that it may be an issue with the upgrade. As a method of narrowing down the issue further, if you are currently receiving the error since upgrading to the new DNAS. Please state your platform. It may be that this is a platform specific issue like the lookup errors.

I am willing to make the assumption that this isnt a full blown yp issue since there are very few reports of errors compared to the number of streams out there in the wild that remain listed.
The NAK 100 is ONLY effecting my relay server. The relay server is on a Win2K system on a T1. No firewall. Using Shoutcast 1.9.7

http://rock.msmcs.net:8000 works & displays fine.
http://rock2.msmcs.net:8000 which is my relay server, it works fine, but is not displayed as a cluster as it should be. Its not even displayed at all & gives the NAK 100 error.
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Old 24th July 2006, 19:28   #32
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as I am unable to edit my previous post...

The OSes used for my data collection were Windows XP and Linux (Libranet 2.8.1) Even individual data from each box supports the same calim...
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Old 24th July 2006, 20:59   #33
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i am having this on both 1.9.5 as well as on 1.9.7.. no difference
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Old 25th July 2006, 06:33   #34
Huaso
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My stream have continuos Nak(100 ERROR). And all are right

http://medios.inf.uct.cl:8100/

The quality are 128K...

1.9.7 its the server... when i have a 1.9.5, i have the error (NAK 100) but are minor.
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Old 25th July 2006, 10:58   #35
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Can people confirm that running 1.9.5 from a none blacklisted (not already receiving NAK 100) host/port combo will eventually result in a ban?

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Old 25th July 2006, 12:12   #36
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Confirmed. We had a ton of servers blacklisted before we ever updated to 1.9.7. 1.9.7 made absolutely no difference... no stations became listed again, and others continued to drop off.

We are working on a lead which proves that it is a YP database cluster replication issue.
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Old 25th July 2006, 12:44   #37
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Yep. narrowed it down to being server-side with the looks of it. Anyone got further details? Anyone care to report intermittant responses? Sometimes listed, other times not. Could indicate its a single server in the web cluster causing issues. Otherwise it may be system wide.

Also, a concern I have is that the number of people reporting faults compared to the number of people streaming is very few. Prehaps a setup issue? Some of you have mentioned that its your relays causing issues. Can you please elaborate.

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Old 25th July 2006, 14:24   #38
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i dont think the reporting:streaming ratio is a good measure of this problem. Several people may be reading this thread and not reporting (like myself) or they are simply not aware of the issue since it does not cause an interruption in the stream.

im running 2 server, on ports 8000 and 9000, its been runnign fine for years. about a month ago i stopped streaming becasue of webhost and harddrive issues. since i started streaming again, a few days ago, i've been getting this nak error and have yet to be listed.

updated one server to 1.97, same problem. tried changing bitrate, same problem.
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Old 25th July 2006, 14:59   #39
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Hi All

1. It is NOT just an issue that affects relays. My relay is fine. It's the main server that has the issues.

2. I had absolutely no problem for months and server config was not changed for ages when this problem reared its head.

3. The problem first started around the time when the shoutcast listings were about 3 days (mentioned in other threads) behind.

4. All the YP Touch settings on my server are standard - i.e. not modified.

5. The version/OS/bitrate of server make no difference.

I have a theory.

If the nak error is basically telling us we have been firewalled (in effect) due to excessive hits, I would make the following assuptions.

1. People running higher bandwidth streams tend to do so because (a) they have more money (unrelated) and (b) have a more reliable home connection.

2. The problem (from what I gather) tends to affect streams of lower bitrates (64k and below), which means probably lower quality connections (and probably home computers)

3. So lower bitrates are more likely to have connection problems e.g. getting disconnected from the stream and having to reconnect more often. This could be due to ISP problems, routing problems etc.

4. While a show is trying to reconnect to keep his stream up, the reconnections are being counted by YP thus when a threshold is reached, they are permanently barred.

5. I would think that relay servers relaying from a machine that has "backup files" would be less likely to get listed, as technically the stream on those machines only drops very rarely. (Please correct me if you have evidence to the contrary).

Conclusion - the ban should most definitely NOT be permanent. In fact I would say it should be no more than a few hours. It would be in Shoutcasts own interests to get this problem sorted out URGENTLY.

Second conclusion - That the server software should be supplied with the YP Touch DISABLED by default. This would help newbies to get set up and get their streams running in a stable fashion without the chance of getting banned before they even get started.

Third conclusion - Although I realise the service is free, there should be a way of getting a server unblocked without having to change ports. Changing ports means losing listeners (again, not something in Shoutcasts interests). If this is not possible due to the human intervention aspect, then at LEAST, Shoutcast should have some sort of station registration, with a contact address to send an email to, to let a station know one of their servers has been blocked. This would be particularly useful to stations who do not have access to server logs.

All the best

Zoe



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Old 25th July 2006, 15:02   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by CraigF
Yep. narrowed it down to being server-side with the looks of it. Anyone got further details? Anyone care to report intermittant responses? Sometimes listed, other times not.
I have one stream that will list eventually... presumably after DNS cache expires and it hits a different YP server. The only three things I am sure of about this problem are:

1) It happens when there are too many drops/re-adds in rapid succession.

2) The servers affected continue to have the problem, even if they are shut down for weeks.

3) Certain YP servers will re-list them. Others will not. It's the luck of the draw as to which YP server DNS hands out when the server starts. (This explains why some people report if they restart a few times, they get listed).

I have IP/Port combos that consistently have the nak problem, and I'm more than happy to work with YP techs to help troubleshoot and resolve.
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