Old 7th October 2006, 20:27   #1
sev
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connection drops

Hi all
I stream AAC+ every night GMT and everything is fine for a few hours but then the connection drops.Here is the end of my log tonight below.Last night my connection dropped but nothing appeared on my log,it just kept listing yp.shoutcast.com touched!
Once dropped it tries to reconnect but is unable to.
All of my music files are mp3 and have tried reinstalling winamp.My log shows that I am still touching but I am not connected!!!
Any ideas?

<10/07/06@20:01:58> [dest: 85.76.249.58] starting stream (UID: 24)[L: 1]{A: WinampMPEG/5.24}(P: 0)
<10/07/06@20:02:02> [dest: 85.76.249.58] connection closed (4 seconds) (UID: 24)[L: 0]{Bytes: 57344}(P: 0)
<10/07/06@20:02:59> [dest: 83.39.252.10] starting stream (UID: 25)[L: 1]{A: WinampMPEG/5.30}(P: 0)
<10/07/06@20:03:05> [dest: 83.39.252.10] connection closed (6 seconds) (UID: 25)[L: 0]{Bytes: 81920}(P: 0)
<10/07/06@20:04:44> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com touched!
<10/07/06@20:05:23> [dest: 192.168.0.1] starting stream (UID: 26)[L: 1]{A: WinampMPEG/5.0}(P: 0)
<10/07/06@20:07:46> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com touched!
<10/07/06@20:10:18> [dest: 83.194.220.83] starting stream (UID: 27)[L: 2]{A: WinampMPEG/5.30}(P: 1)
<10/07/06@20:10:35> [dest: 83.194.220.83] connection closed (17 seconds) (UID: 27)[L: 1]{Bytes: 212992}(P: 1)
<10/07/06@20:10:48> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com touched!
<10/07/06@20:12:11> [dest: 192.168.0.1] connection closed (407 seconds) (UID: 26)[L: 0]{Bytes: 1327104}(P: 0)
<10/07/06@20:13:50> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com touched!
<10/07/06@20:16:52> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com touched!
<10/07/06@20:19:53> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave error (nak)
<10/07/06@20:19:53> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave extended error (100)
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Old 7th October 2006, 20:31   #2
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well, there is not much you can personally do about a nak100 error, which is your cause for people dropping off.

This is not you getting disconnected, this is a problem with the shoutcast (yp) servers. About the only way you can kix this as of now is to not list yourself on the yp.

SHOUTcast is indeed aware of this problem and they will eventually get around to looking into it further. If they can do anything about it or not remains to be seen.
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Old 7th October 2006, 20:34   #3
sev
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Thanks fc*uk
When I get this error my shoutcast source disconnects.Why would this be if it is a problem with the shoutcast (yp) servers?
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Old 7th October 2006, 20:54   #4
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If the source disconnects at this same time as the NAK errors, you probably have a connectivity problem at or around the DNAS server, or on your LAN.

The DNAS does not stay connected to the YP -- it only looks for it every 3-5 minutes or so.
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Old 7th October 2006, 20:55   #5
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well, this really should not effect the source as far as I know.... Unless of course you are using a stream host to provide you stream or you are being a DJ on someone else's system... Then the nak100 might also effect you.
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Old 7th October 2006, 21:09   #6
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I think the problem is my netgear router as I have only had this problem when I bought it.Like djspinnerCee says a connectivity problem.When my source disconnects(every bloody night)I dont always get the same error.Sometimes nak,sometimes nothing at all,the log says Im still touching.
Time to fiddle with router
Thanks for your feedback
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Old 7th October 2006, 21:19   #7
djSpinnerCee
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Some routers don't like doing DHCP on the LAN even though they all (try to) do it.

An example is when your DNAS box uses DHCP and gets a DHCP lease from the router of two days (a typical default lease time) -- since the lease is renewed at half the lease time, once a day, your box may actually disconnect (drop the Ethernet interface and reload it) and attempt to reconnect -- this will certainly tear down any active connection, but it may also hang the router.

When the router hangs, it really doesn't matter what PC on your LAN caused it (any PC that does DHCP can cause it), because the internet goes away then (NAK time) -- some routers will restart on their own, others will wait for you to reset them.

A longer lease helps (delay the onset), but static IPs for ALL PCs on your LAN, and a disabled DHCP server on the router is the best solution. If that's not possible, minimize the amount of work that the DHCP server is doing.
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Old 7th October 2006, 22:04   #8
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Ive managed to disable DHCP on my router and hopefully this will help.If not I will post again.
Thanks for your help
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Old 12th October 2006, 15:59   #9
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sorry to dig up this semi-old thread but it was the most recent that I had seen with the NAK 100.

I pushed out some code changes to the webpage and was wondering if you were still getting NAK 100. A few other people that I have talked to seem to have had their problems resolved because of this.

If you aren't getting the error anymore, are you still getting user drops?


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Old 12th October 2006, 21:15   #10
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Hi Deppy
Ive just started broadcasting again tonight and have been on air for about 6 hours with no nak 100 errors.
I have remained connected throughout.
The problem seemed to be my router and once I had disabled DHCP everything was ok.I dont know whether your code changes contributed to this fix but at my end everything is ok.
Would you believe it!! as soon as I posted this I got the NAK 100 error.
I have my station running on my main desktop pc and tuned in on my laptop connected wirelessly.Could this cause my connection to drop and the NAK error?
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Old 12th October 2006, 21:17   #11
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perfect! thanks for the update :-) please let me know if you do run into this issue with the NAK 100s again

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Old 12th October 2006, 21:19   #12
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Would you believe it!! as soon as I posted this I got the NAK 100 error.
I have my station running on my main desktop pc and tuned in on my laptop connected wirelessly.Could this cause my connection to drop and the NAK error?
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Old 12th October 2006, 21:50   #13
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Ive tried connecting to my stream again on my laptop and my second desktop and everything seems fine now.Im not getting any NAK 100 errors or other errors.I now dont know whether it is because of my router or the changes that Deppy made
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Old 13th October 2006, 00:18   #14
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The whole text of any "NAK" message is important -- The details given tell you what is not working. The terms like "error resolving..." anything about "responding" or not... "cannot see" etc...

what else does the DNAS "say"?
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Old 13th October 2006, 01:00   #15
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Heres what my log said tonight

<10/12/06@21:12:28> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave error (nak)
<10/12/06@21:12:28> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave extended error (100)

As you can see theres nothing to indicate what the problem could be
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Old 13th October 2006, 14:59   #16
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The events before the NAK error are helpful in this case. Can you paste maybe the 5 lines before the nak(100) as well? There had been cases where the directory test server was not going out to the machine prior to the test which was causing the nak 100.

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Old 13th October 2006, 15:59   #17
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As you can see there is an "error resolving" in the log below which I failed to notice.It seems that my router is not the problem anymore which is good news as other people have been getting NAK 100 errors.

<10/12/06@21:05:13> [dest: 87.245.35.165] starting stream (UID: 103)[L: 3]{A: WinampMPEG/5.23}(P: 2)
<10/12/06@21:05:17> [dest: 87.245.35.165] connection closed (3 seconds) (UID: 103)[L: 2]{Bytes: 57344}(P: 2)
<10/12/06@21:05:37> [dest: 212.18.61.206] connection closed (113 seconds) (UID: 101)[L: 1]{Bytes: 475136}(P: 0)
<10/12/06@21:06:10> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com touched!
<10/12/06@21:09:26> [yp_tch] error resolving yp.shoutcast.com
<10/12/06@21:09:52> [dest: 192.168.0.1] connection closed (316 seconds) (UID: 102)[L: 0]{Bytes: 1040384}(P: 1)
<10/12/06@21:10:45> [dest: 192.168.0.1] starting stream (UID: 104)[L: 1]{A: WinampMPEG/5.0}(P: 0)
<10/12/06@21:12:04> [dest: 192.168.0.1] connection closed (80 seconds) (UID: 104)[L: 0]{Bytes: 256000}(P: 0)
<10/12/06@21:12:21> [dest: 192.168.0.1] starting stream (UID: 105)[L: 1]{A: WinampMPEG/5.0}(P: 0)
<10/12/06@21:12:28> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave error (nak)
<10/12/06@21:12:28> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave extended error (100)
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Old 13th October 2006, 19:28   #18
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Ive recieved the nak error again tonight without any events beforehand

<10/13/06@19:20:05> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com touched!
<10/13/06@19:20:38> [dest: 80.57.124.240] starting stream (UID: 79)[L: 1]{A: WinampMPEG/5.24}(P: 0)
<10/13/06@19:20:59> [dest: 80.57.124.240] connection closed (21 seconds) (UID: 79)[L: 0]{Bytes: 212992}(P: 0)
<10/13/06@19:23:06> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com touched!
<10/13/06@19:23:19> [dest: 80.57.124.240] starting stream (UID: 80)[L: 1]{A: WinampMPEG/5.24}(P: 0)
<10/13/06@19:23:22> [dest: 198.64.22.134] starting stream (UID: 81)[L: 2]{A: RMA/1.0 (compatible; RealMedia)}(P: 1)
<10/13/06@19:23:23> [dest: 80.57.124.240] connection closed (4 seconds) (UID: 80)[L: 1]{Bytes: 57344}(P: 0)
<10/13/06@19:23:54> [dest: 198.64.22.134] connection closed (33 seconds) (UID: 81)[L: 0]{Bytes: 16384}(P: 1)
<10/13/06@19:26:09> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave error (nak)
<10/13/06@19:26:09> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave extended error (100)
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Old 13th October 2006, 21:29   #19
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Ok, this is something I'd like to look into getting more info from you outside of the forums. Do you have AIM or use IRC? If so, could you PM me your contact info?

I have a feeling there is some other stuff that I am missing that I'd need to get from you.

Please don't PM me for technical support. Other users can't search through PM's so it does the other users no good.
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Old 13th October 2006, 23:51   #20
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Both patterns are patterns I see when my broadband gets a new public IP -- (router reset, ISP maintenance, stuff like that)...

<10/07/06@20:16:52> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com touched!
<10/07/06@20:19:53> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave error (nak)
<10/07/06@20:19:53> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave extended error (100)


In this case the the public IP changed between touches, so the yp is complaining that the stream IP does not match -- this should cause a revisit by the directory checker, and a "yp.shoutcast.com added me" for the new IP.

Sometimes the touch interval [3 mins.]just happens when the router is down (maybe getting ready to reboot, or trying to get a new IP from the ISP). At this time I can't resolve the yp (yp.shoutcast.com) because I don't have internet connectivity (I can't find the DNS server), I will also start to lose connected listeners around this time...

<10/12/06@21:09:26> [yp_tch] error resolving yp.shoutcast.com

It is pretty simple to figure out if this is what's happening -- If you are getting a new IP around this time, there may be an ISP or modem/router issue.

I've seen cases where using the public IP to connect the source [add: as when the DNAS is on the same LAN or PC as the source] makes the router reboot [add: which drops the source as well] more often than if you use 127.0.0.1 or the DNAS LAN IP. Sometimes even listening to your own stream on the public IP can make the router do strange things.

Last edited by djSpinnerCee; 14th October 2006 at 00:20.
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Old 14th October 2006, 01:33   #21
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Thanks for the info djSpinnerCee.Is there anything else you could suggest that I could do with my router or is this problem out of my hands
Cheers
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Old 15th October 2006, 16:17   #22
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Ive started streaming today using the DNAS LAN IP instead of the public IP.Ill see how it goes and let you know
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Old 15th October 2006, 16:57   #23
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This is the full sequence when your router is reset and you get a new public IP in the process:

<10/15/06@09:59:15> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave error (nak)
<10/15/06@09:59:15> [yp_tch] yp.shoutcast.com gave extended error (100)
<10/15/06@10:04:18> [dest: 205.188.234.99] starting stream (UID: 1355)[L: 1]{A: SHOUTcast Directory Tester}
<10/15/06@10:04:28> [dest: 205.188.234.99] connection closed (0 seconds) (UID: 1355)[L: 0]{Bytes: 313103}
<10/15/06@10:04:28> [http:205.188.234.99] REQ:"/" (Mozilla)
<10/15/06@10:04:29> [yp_add] yp.shoutcast.com added me successfully


The five minute interval is worth noting.

Unfortunately, I have to live with DHCP because of one WiFi laptop that needs to work in several different environments (different IP networks) so it cannot have a static IP (my LAN IP network is not the standard 192.168.x.x). When it chokes up, the router may be functioning properly, but it will be inaccessable via the browser, and the laptop will not be able to get an IP. Somtimes this clears up on it's own, sometimes the router will just totally hang, and drop the internet as well. When the router must be manually reset, IF it gets a new public IP, or more than 5 minutes have passed(?), I'll see the sequence above, otherwise, with the same public IP, the NAK and 100 will be followed by normal log activity.
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Old 16th October 2006, 01:07   #24
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Ive successfully broadcasted today for 9 hours without any connection drops or errors in the log since I changed the public IP to my LAN IP.Long may it continue.
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Old 18th October 2006, 13:23   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by sev
Ive successfully broadcasted today for 9 hours without any connection drops or errors in the log since I changed the public IP to my LAN IP.Long may it continue.
I am having exactly the same problem that you describe. I have the feeling that last night it was caused when my public IP changed, but I'm not sure. I was hoping that if it would help my case, someone would give me a little help in how to change from my public IP to my LAN IP. Thanks very much.
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Old 18th October 2006, 14:17   #26
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DSP config -- Output Tab -- Connection button: Output Configuration -- Address:

This address can be the public IP of the DNAS, and it MUST be the DNAS public IP if the DNAS is not on your LAN (ie remotely hosted).

You can and should use 127.0.0.1 here if and only if the DNAS server and the source DSP are on the same PC.

You have to find and use the LAN IP of the DNAS server (use ipconfig /all on the DNAS PC), when the source and server are on the same LAN but not on the same PC. You should already know the LAN IP of the DNAS server because it is required to configure port forwarding [the target].
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Old 18th October 2006, 19:54   #27
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Hi djSpinnerCee
My DNAS server and DSP are on the same PC but I use my LAN IP instead of 127.0.0.1.Are there any disadvantages in using the LAN IP,will I encounter any problems in the future?
Will my stream run more smoothly if I use 127.0.0.1 ?
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Old 18th October 2006, 20:27   #28
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There's no functional difference to using the LAN IP over 127.0.0.1 when both source and DNAS are on the same PC, however:

Most pepole who run both source and DNAS on the same PC are also on a LAN where there's only one PC -- many people also don't bother to assign a static IP to this PC because 99% of the time it gets the exact same IP -- We get this all the time -- "I haven't broadcasted in a while but I didn't change anything, at first I couldn't even connect to my server, when I finally did I'm getting cannot see your station errors...." -- what happened? --- in the weeks or days or minutes the PC was turned off, the PC gets a different LAN IP via DHCP -- that first makes the DSP config invalid... eventually they'll figure out that they can use 127.0.0.1 and the DSP can connect to the DNAS, but now the router also must be reconfigured because its port forward config is also now invalid...

Keeping the DSP set for 127.0.0.1 will never change, it always means "this PC." The LAN IP is also fine, just make sure you know that it is not as "solid" as using the local loopback address. Think about it this way -- even if the PCs NIC dies, 127.0.0.1 will work without fail -- anytime the NIC goes on or offline (as when the router/switch the PC is connected or is reset), even the static LAN IP will go down momentarily as Windows resets the config.

Less things to worry about makes it easier to figure out what's not working.
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Old 23rd October 2006, 20:06   #29
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I use a dynamic DNS service for my public IP but are now using my LAN IP to connect.I can type both the public and the LAN IP addresses into the address bar and get the shoutcast administration for both.Which IP do my listeners connect to?
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Old 23rd October 2006, 20:34   #30
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Location is everything...

PCs on your LAN should use the LAN IP of the server whenever possible.

Everyone on the internet can ONLY use the public IP (or your DNS name) -- the LAN IP and loopback (127.0.0.1) will never work for them.
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