Old 20th March 2003, 03:59   #1
Nullsoft
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Winamp 2.9, Winamp3, and the future

To our beloved developers,


we'd like to inform you of our new (or somewhat recently updated) development
plans for Winamp. It's important to note that our primary goals (to provide
the best media playback experience and functionality) have not changed.

The New Plan[tm]!

Currently we provide Winamp 2.81 and Winamp3 for our users. Both programs
provide some really excellent features and functionality, and a lot of those
benefits do not overlap between the two products.

We intend to combine everything our users like about Winamp 2.81 and Winamp3
into one version of Winamp.

Step 1: Winamp 2.9 (next week)

Winamp 2.9 will be built on Winamp 2.x, and include new features such as video
support and a media library. Winamp 2.9 will also provide some new APIs for
tighter plug-in integration. We will even be releasing portable device plug-ins
as examples.

Step 1.5: release lots of updates to Winamp 2.9x, to fix bugs and add minor improvements.

Step 2: Winamp "5" (this summer)

(The "5" is just a working title, and may or may not be used.. The (slightly amusing)
thought is that Winamp 2 + Winamp 3 = Winamp 5; but not everybody around is sold on
that idea. We'll see.)

This version will integrate Winamp 3 skin and script support into the Winamp 2.x platform.
This will allow users who do not wish to have complex freeform skins to use classic
Winamp skin(s), with the full performance of Winamp 2.x. Those who wish to use more
advanced Winamp3 skins can do so as well. The integration will be seamless.

Initially this version of Winamp will not support Wasabi components. That may
or may not change as we go forward, we have yet to see how worthwhile that will
be. We have and will be extending Winamp 2.x's plug-in architecture greatly to
allow much of the same functionality that can be accomplished with Wasabi).

We also plan on adding CD ripping and burning capability for this release.

We are aiming to release this version sometime (read: towards the end of) this
summer (2003).

Step 3: ???

Step 4: Profit!

(don't worry about steps 3 and 4, they are just a lame Southpark reference)

To just sum things up: plan going forward:
  • Winamp 2.9, March 2003
    - Adds video and library and new APIs for better plug-in integration to Winamp 2.x
  • Winamp "5" (title unknown), Late Summer 2003
    - Adds Winamp3 skin support, CD ripping, CD burning.
    - Fully supports Winamp "classic" and Winamp3 skins
    - Fully supports Winamp "classic" plug-ins
    - Does not initially support Winamp3 (Wasabi) components.


For developer questions, please ask in this forum.
For press inquires, please contact Ann Burkart <mailto:burkartann@aol.com>.


-Nullsoft

P.S. Steve _REALLY_ is an evil robot. Really. Of course, this remark annoys him. Because it is TRUE
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Old 20th March 2003, 05:43   #2
Lepre41
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Intersting development. Are you cutting support for Wasabi because it was turning out to be a fairly unused feature, or is there some other reason?
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Old 20th March 2003, 12:44   #3
sanosuke
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wasabi would be in winamp3, it is NOT being cut out.

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Old 20th March 2003, 13:23   #4
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when is summer??
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Old 20th March 2003, 16:28   #5
Bizzeh
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so, you told us about winamp2.x and winamp "5" but u still failed to tell us whats going to happen with winamp3
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Old 20th March 2003, 16:30   #6
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true..
But Brennan said it will continue so I believe that..

-Plague
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Old 4th April 2003, 06:10   #7
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I'm interested, but confused, is this just to make all the WA3 nay sayers happy? I like Winamp3, and am having difficulties with the idea of going back to the old format. I know your not telling me too, or twisting my arm, there's no gun to my head I know...But, just the same. I'm interested to know why.

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Old 4th April 2003, 08:32   #8
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Hi, i must say: at last!

Winamp 3 had a very very nice concept but as sw developer i know how hard it is to establish completely new concepts without losing the origin fan community.
For me an all the other plugin developers it was a pity to see that the development one had learned for WA2 didn't work anymore. And the Wa3-API changed often etc. (Best example: the WA2 plugin manager, at some time, the author stopped it's development, because it was too hard to work for WA3.)
I think it's the right decision to combine the benefits of both technologies, the already established WA2 and the best of Winamp 3. And i'm happy that i can resume developing my plugin now

bye,
Qc
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Old 5th April 2003, 01:46   #9
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err, he didn't stop development of that component because it was too hard to work for Wa3, it was because he didn't wanna have to recompile it every other week or so, and answer shitloads of support/flame mails about this and that...

Quote:
For me an all the other plugin developers it was a pity to see that the development one had learned for WA2 didn't work anymore.
you know, there's the other side of this, me and alot of other people, have learned the Wa3 system and like it very much, going back would mean the same thing for us as going forward would mean for you...

I'm sticking with Wa3, but am also still using 2.
Up til now, 2 has been my main player, in the future though, it all depends which player will offer the most and best features.
Before 2.9 was released, I thought I'd switch to 3 as my main player maybe next build, dunno anymore though..

Anyway, both players will be there, just like before, so there's really no problem.

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Old 5th April 2003, 08:42   #10
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Hi!

yes that's what i meant:

>> And the Wa3-API changed often etc.
> it was because he didn't wanna have to recompile it every other week or so

right.

if Winamp 5 will also get the main features of WA 3 then there's no problem for you anymore. But thene there's no prob for anyone...
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Old 5th April 2003, 15:31   #11
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well, wa5 will be mostly built on wa2 codebase, which is no good for me, I think.
If wa5 will have the main features of Wa3, it will most likely be through plugins (a wasabi plugin for example, to enable loading wa3 components) or, like wa2.9 has, recoded features from 3..

I want the real thing, so I'm probably gonna run 3 as main player and 5 as something to play with and maybe develop for, like 3 is for me now.

But this is just what I think right now, I have no idea how 5 will turn out so I cannot say for sure what I will think about it once it's out..

-Plague
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Old 22nd April 2003, 14:29   #12
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may i ask why i should use winamp as a cd ripping and burning tool???
i don't even use WA3 for playing videos, because winamp is an audio player for me.

strange plans. i like the idea of going back to wa2, but rip/burn..?
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Old 22nd April 2003, 14:32   #13
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If Winamp2 is all you need, you shouldn't concern yourself with the future plans for Winamp3 and 5.

Ans since 3 and 5 both will be modular, you can simply choose what to install and what not to install, so this is a non-issue anyhow.

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Old 17th May 2003, 23:58   #14
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I could live without all that CD burning and crap.

I just want a version of 2.91 with 3 skin support. Nothing more. I hear through the grapevine too that this has already been porduced...

- Viper007Bond | Viper007Bond.com
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Old 22nd May 2003, 20:39   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Viper007Bond
I could live without all that CD burning and crap.

I just want a version of 2.91 with 3 skin support. Nothing more. I hear through the grapevine too that this has already been porduced...
/me agrees wholeheartedly.

I can burn elsewhere or not at all, doesn't matter. I love the Winamp3 skins.

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Old 1st June 2003, 12:09   #16
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The wa3 skin support will be nice. I don't see why they are adding ripping/burning to wa5 because there are some great plug-ins that allready do that for you.
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Old 19th June 2003, 22:01   #17
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I hear through copious screenshotage by Mr Jones that gen_ff.dll exists, Viper007!

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Old 29th June 2003, 23:27   #18
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no matter what happens, im sticking with winamp3... when winamp "5" fully suports wasabi components, then i will consider it... there are a few other opinions like this too... winamp3 was, is and will continue to be, an exelent product, its just that AOL forced an EARLY release, and there are to many people who only just have to IQ to switch the PC on reporting "wa3 sucks, it doesnt do this, this, or this"...

on a side note, anyone who thinks that gen_ff.dll will load winamp3 skins as fast as winamp2 skins wil be in for a big shock... there is only 1 way to load winamp3 skins, winamp3 uses it, gen_ff.dlkl uses it, so... it will be 1. same speed, or 2. slower..

Bizzy
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Old 1st July 2003, 02:47   #19
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I agree with Bizzy.

On everything.

I should prolly start worshipping him soon.

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Old 4th July 2003, 23:47   #20
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ripping and burning? bah

I don't want ripping and burning in winamp.
I want a fast player with good skins and a avs. That's why winamp was the leader. I don't to wait 30 sec for winamp loading. I hate this. And i hate that winamp 3 doesn't run fast in my PII450.
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Old 5th July 2003, 04:31   #21
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Re: ripping and burning? bah

Quote:
Originally posted by traballad
I don't want ripping and burning in winamp.
if you don't like ripping and burning, don't install it.

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Old 5th July 2003, 16:16   #22
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Re: ripping and burning? bah

Quote:
Originally posted by traballad
I don't want ripping and burning in winamp.
I want a fast player with good skins and a avs. That's why winamp was the leader. I don't to wait 30 sec for winamp loading. I hate this. And i hate that winamp 3 doesn't run fast in my PII450.
these are the kind of people that a dont like... "488 loads slow.. winamp3 sucks.." do me a fucking favour... 499 is out now, it loads faster than 2.81 did... your the sort of person thats got AOL to stop suporting wa3
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Old 6th July 2003, 03:33   #23
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Winamp 5?

To be fair I will always be a winamp 2.x man. 3 just has really annoying features that I will never use or have a plugin that does it better. All i want to see is winamp3 skin support for winamp2. I hate the media libary as none of my mp3 have tags. I mean what next picture editing, sound creation or maybe even a fully integrated office suite. I guess what Im really trying to say is dont go over the top with the features the reason I love winamp is the fact that you can get a cut down version that misses things like crossfading, and hotkeys etc and you can download plugins to tailor it to your own taste.
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Old 11th July 2003, 23:19   #24
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I agree with Howy_d. When you setup winamp2 the folder is winamp/ when you setup winamp3 the folder is winamp3/

So winamp is a soft program, that's the key of its success. And plugins are cool cause you can choose just the ones you want.

Last edited by traballad; 11th July 2003 at 23:35.
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Old 14th July 2003, 04:38   #25
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Quote:
Taken From /finger brennan@landoleet.org
As for Winamp3, it's still getting worked on and developed. Both players will use
Wasabi. One player will be more of a crazy abstract development platform written
more directly in Wasabi and one will be Winamp 2.x-ish with freeform skinning +
other sexy playery features. And both will use Wasabi.
Everybody wins! If you like Brennan-style ultimate program flexibility, use
Winamp3. If you prefer Justin-style hardcore minimalist player features, use
Winamp 2.x, unless you're on Linux, in which case you're stuck with Winamp3.
so.. there you have it...
personaly... ultimate program flexibility is better than minimalist...

Bizzy
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Old 26th July 2003, 18:26   #26
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Personaly I prefer Winamp 2.x: It's easy to use, it's fast to load but, as a counterpart, the skins aren't much of a deal.

On Winamp3 I believe we have the oposite: It's a bit hard to use (at first I had tones of problems to find out where everything was, sure that hapens with every piece of new software but when WA3 was released I was expecting something more familiar), it takes ages to load on older PCs (remember that not everyone is able to buy new Processors almost every year) but, on the other hand, it has the best skins I have ever seen.

I'm looking foward to the new WA5 if it means well get the best of both the old ones. Sure you can say there'll be the same loading times for skins in WA5 as in WA3 but I don't care because that wasn't my main complain about WA3. My main complain was and still is the constant crashes and bugs that appear in Winamp3 sometimes by something as simple as a bad shutdown.

Like it has already been said in this Topic, WA3 was released in a hurry so there were toons of bugs in the first releases and honestly I don't think the WASABI platform it's all it's cranked up to be.
Sure the old school WA2 Plug-In system it's not half the wasabi is but neither it has half the wasabi problems.

But maibe I'm a litle outdated on the WA3 questions because i simply quit using it since I was tired of reinstalling all the time something went wrong.
Sure I had tones of problems with WA2 but ususaly I could usualy fixed them by deleting a single file, while in WA3 I found myself browsing through toons of XML, DLL and other files that gave me no clue to what tey were suposed to do.

In conclusion I think everyone will benefit from a NEW, STABLE and CALMLY MADE version of Winamp.

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Old 27th July 2003, 03:16   #27
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Quote:
I'm looking foward to the new WA5 if it means well get the best of both the old ones. Sure you can say there'll be the same loading times for skins in WA5 as in WA3 but I don't care because that wasn't my main complain about WA3. My main complain was and still is the constant crashes and bugs that appear in Winamp3 sometimes by something as simple as a bad shutdown.
no.. the main thing that crashes wa3 is lazy assed skinners who dont delete objects in maki on unload...

and if u want to complain about the slowness... and the general feal of it... download one of the later internals... then see how far its come along.. then.. download one of the wa1.5 to wa2.1 then come back and see if you have a right to complain about wa3... its only a year out of the box... winamp2 is like... 7 years now is it?...
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Old 14th August 2003, 02:54   #28
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What about future developer support in Winamp 5? Is there going to be any .NET support for languages like C# in the SDK?

I know C++ is the way to go for low-level stuff like Visualizations, but what about simple things for other devs? Getting the current file name of the song being played, which is a bitch to do using an external app, should be made much easier without the task of pointers, etc.

Currently, every WM_USER command above 200 has to be done within the Winamp.exe process, meaning it must be done through the plugin or by using pointers. I just feel like that's unacceptable and actually deterring me from writing plug-ins for the app.

Remember to focus on the developer side of things too guys

Ethan
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Old 27th August 2003, 00:18   #29
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When will Winamp truly support MP4 Audio (.mp4) including both standard AAC (AAC LC) and HE AAC (High Efficiency AAC) that are now part of the MPEG 4 audio standard? I use Nero 6 and it produces great MP4 files. I have tried the free plug-in at www.audiocoding.com and am ahappy with it, but I would like WinAmp developers to natively support MP4 audio (.mp4 files) in both the AAC and HE AAC flavors. You can obtain a license to the code based on the FAAD2 decoder for WinAmp 2.9x which was written by Menno of Ahead Software (www.nero.com or www.nerodigital.com).

I look forward to WinAmp natively supporting the new (and soon to be very popular) MP4 audio format. Thanks!
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Old 27th August 2003, 16:13   #30
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Well I hope Dolby adds full AAC-HE support to their AAC decoder. I also hope that WinAmp and Dolby support the standard .MP4/.M4A audio format (container file) that Apple iPod and Nero 6 generate and not just an AAC file without the MPEG 4 container. Thanks for your quick reply.
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Old 1st September 2003, 20:55   #31
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What about a WinAmp browser plugin for IE/Netscape or maybe even Mozilla and Opera? I hate having MP3's open in Quicktime >.<
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Old 2nd September 2003, 19:38   #32
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PP got MP4/AAC support in his FooBar2000 player, I'm sure he would do us the honour to make a in_mp4.dll plugin for Winamp.
Why does Nullsoft put AAC support inside the already big in_mp3.dll. It's much better to make a separate DLL for that one.
MP4 isn't even close to MP3. It's much better.
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Old 2nd September 2003, 19:43   #33
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ummm, PP will not make an in_mp4.dll for winamp, I can assure you that.

-Plague
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Old 5th September 2003, 10:38   #34
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I think that the problem with developping is that sometimes the basic idea is forgotten.

Keep it simple. That is what made Winamp so big.

I have 2.95 and I don't think that I made a good choice because overall all I want is good quality sound.

For video I have at least three different players.

For ripping well Nero or xp based ripping.

Give Winamp the best sound features fix the gapless plug ins
and some cool skins and that my friend will be tops!!
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Old 22nd September 2003, 08:03   #35
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MP4 Input plugin

You can get a MP4 input plugin at http://www.audiocoding.com/
This uses the FAAD Decoding library. It's the fastest as they claim.
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Old 14th October 2003, 04:59   #36
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2 Ideas that would be nice in the merge

Would love to have winamp with playlisting for sure (generating html lists is very useful. they lost it in winamp3).

another thing would be to have those html lists have clickable features to each song. that way people can just click the songs on the list for playing (lan aswell as internet).

deleting the item in winamp is great for the list but how bout having "ctrl + delete" or something like that to delete the original. this will fight off those nasties in Kazaa(lite) when you download a song and it is horrible. Not sure if Windows Media Player has deleting the original. Good feature anyways.

plug in for kazaa would rule. playing it by double clicking and maybe a reg file would say it plays in winamp instead of that junk media player.
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Old 14th October 2003, 14:34   #37
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Re: 2 Ideas that would be nice in the merge

Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTigerBC
(generating html lists is very useful. they lost it in winamp3).
No they didn't.
It's in later builds, and has been for some time now..

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Old 15th October 2003, 08:18   #38
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where is it?

where is the winamp 3 "generate html file list" into an html file on ie or mozilla? (if it already has it. im at a complete loss as to where it is)
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Old 15th October 2003, 13:36   #39
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From the FAQ:
Quote:
Build 490

Release Notes:
- HTML Playlist Output
In the Playlist: Playlist > Save playlist As... > Select "Export to HTML" in "Save Type As:" box.
and if you don't like that, you can use either of theese:
Quote:
How do I make a HTML Playlist?
This feature is currently missing form Winamp3 1.0 but will be included in the next release. For now you can try Playlist Guardian or w3conv100.
It's all there if you just look for it...
The FAQ is there for a reason.

-Plague
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Old 15th October 2003, 21:24   #40
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thanks

thanks for the reply, better then none right?

i'll remember to check faqs next time (although they aren't as fast as forums nor as informative).

wouldn't have gotten the 2 links for the website i've got for others who aren't as good at info sniffing. thank you btw.
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