Old 15th February 2013, 13:26   #1
Sabine Klare
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Is it necessary to stay away because of some bad people?

Sorry, I don't know how to make a quote, but at least I think, the The Bitchlist is the right place, and it is necessary to open this thread now. Here I have a part from my original posting in "Small niggling annoyances.":
"March & July 2010 I began to visit some group-chats outside of Facebook. July 2010 I landed in a very nice group-chat, and the moderator made me always laugh with his funny phrases. I learned to know some people, also a chat-guest, who was only in the first time gentle. After Christmas he began to offend and insult me again and again, and in March 2011 his insults were so massive, so that I left the chat and stayed away. On the same day I founded a new Facebook-Group for new group-chats. The Facebook-Group-Chats worked only until Spring 2012. My friends told me again and again "Sabine, please come back!". After more than 18 months I came back, and Frank told me: "If this chat-guest appears again, ignore him!". I think, he is right, although my tolerance has its limits..."
I did that, I went away and I stayed away for a very long time, but I came back. I remember at least this experience...
I don't believe, I would be the only one person in the world, who has made such experiences or similiar experiences with bad & ungrateful & nasty & intriguing people. If You have made similiar experiences and if You also went away & stayed away for a very long time because of such a person, like I myself did, feel free to post here...
Greetings from Sabine Klare Aka Sternenmaschinebine
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Old 17th February 2013, 12:47   #2
Batter Pudding
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I think we all go through this. Many of us spend time on forums and chat groups. I do this as I like to share knowledge. I like to help people. I also like to learn from other people. Sharing knowledge as well as learning about new cultures.

The trouble is there will always be the selfish attention seeker. Or those arrogant people who think that they know better than everyone else.

IMHO - the big problem with forums and groups on the Internet is you have no idea who people are. In real life when you meet someone you can judge a character. On the written page this is harder to do.

You only have to head to some of the more mad areas of the web like davidicke.com forums and you can see the out pouring of mental illness and paranoia. At least on that forum it is clear that you are surrounded by unstable people.

The problems occur when you are on a forum like Winamp. You really don't know who it is who is ranting at you.

I feel sorry for you being driven away from your group chat by a single idiot. I have had this myself on forums where I used to be the major contributor. I was one of the few people who could really assist on that forum, but I was driven away by a selfish individual. Screaming at me because I didn't reply during Xmas!! Because of that one person everyone else suffered.

After six months I quietly rejoined the forum and like you was welcomed back. But I learnt from that and took more of a back seat. I learnt I can't fix everyone else's problems.


Even this forum here at Winamp has its fair share of selfish idiots. People who can make arguments out of simple assistance. I have been driven away from here a few times by people like that.

We all have to learn when to take a break from the Internet.
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Old 17th February 2013, 12:57   #3
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There will always be trolls. Like everywhere else on the internet, don't feed them.

Stay away from pointless discussions or let him make a fool of himself towards the other participants. You don't have to 'beat' anyone; the internet is not a game that can be won.
If you like the other people there, talk with them and don't let Frank tell others what to think of someone else. Everyone's free to make up his own mind. Make sure everybody knows this.

If his power over the others is too big, then yes, find/form a new group. There are billions of people on this planet. Don't let a few people who you've never even met screw up your day.

Jesus loves you [yes, you] so much, he even died for you so that you will not need to die, but live forever
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Old 17th February 2013, 13:17   #4
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That is a big point. Trolls. Some people do it just as a game. They think it is funny to wind people up. Get some perverted pleasure from it.

Knowing when to walk away is great. Knowing when to step back and NOT have the last word is great. I learnt that a few years back. Knowing that I didn't have to always show that "I was right" let me enjoy forums so much more.

It also lets the idiots show themselves up for the idiots they really are. After a while everyone else has left and they are standing in that room all on their own.


XKCD has it right as always... http://xkcd.com/386/
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Old 17th February 2013, 13:25   #5
Sabine Klare
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Currently it is very silent in the group-chat outside of Facebook, and I like the most of the other chat-guests, although it is not so funny anymore like 2010. I hope, it will not become intolerable again, but I know, what I have to do, then "I disappear again", because I don't want to feed such people. This chat-guest did that not only with me.
I am also not a slave for others. I have learned to know many people, who wanted that from me, and I have finished many false friendships. Many other people also tried to patronize me, but my husband Frank (Klare) doesn't do that.
In earlier times it were the telephone and the personal meetings, and it's the internet now, but nothing has changed.
PS, I have a further chat-room outside of Facebook, but nobody wanted to come to this chat.
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Old 18th February 2013, 21:02   #6
Warrior of the Light
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batter Pudding View Post
XKCD has it right as always... http://xkcd.com/386/
I knew which image you'd link to before I clicked it... Don't know if it's a good thing
edit: Your post cost me 90 minutes of my life to get back up to date with xkcd again... 1110 is huge

Jesus loves you [yes, you] so much, he even died for you so that you will not need to die, but live forever

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Old 18th February 2013, 22:00   #7
Sabine Klare
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You are right, it is very late and Frank is already waiting for me in the bed...
In another radio-chat I had posted the link to a YouTube-Video about a pipe break in a Berlin U-Bahn-Station (in January). I told the others also, that on the following day it would be 7 years, after our own apartment had been damaged very much by a pipe-break in the apartment above, when it was also very cold. But another guest, who was in the chat the first time, had only said: "Sabine, it seems, that You have already sleepless nights because of a small dripping faucet!". How can he say that? This was not very gentle from him! Then he didn't experience yet a water damage in his own apartment (or a damage by a fire, my mother had experienced it last year). I continued to listen "alone". I didn't see him again yet, and I don't want that after his spiteful remarks. But I had complained in a comment to my status with the same link in Facebook...
Colleagues?... Many colleagues are crossing the way in the chats, and sometimes "I learn to know" a colleague again, although I had thought, I would already know him...
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Old 19th February 2013, 11:18   #8
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There are a lot of strange people out there in chat rooms (and forums). And they all go in to the room for different reasons. I see these rooms like the local pub. A place for people to gather. But some of them are in bad moods. Or too drunk. Or just plain anti-social. And they are there for just a fight. There to cause trouble. There to wind people up. To annoy people.

At least when you are in the pub you can see that they are drunk. You can see their face as they talk, so you can tell if they are joking. In a chat room online you cannot see this. So you have to guess as to what someone's true meaning is. We can only make this guess based on our own experiences.

I know in some discussions I have online I will bump into the negative person. Everything you say they will pick on. They try and turn everything into something bad. Something negative. They are having a bad day and think you should to. They are upset at people around them being happy or having fun.

Or they are just trying to pick an argument. Trying to get some odd satisfaction out of proving that THEY are RIGHT and YOU are WRONG. Even though in most cases you are both right and would learn more from a compromise.

People are plain weird. I have spent years watching and studying people. One of my favourite games is sitting in a pub with a mate or my girlfriend discussing the crowd who are in. Making up little back stories for them.

Through my job I meet some weird and wonderful people from all levels of life. And the one thing for sure is that no two people are the same or think the same.

What one must learn to do is to know not to take things personally. Back in the past I used to always need the "Last Word" in any debate online. I had to prove MY point. But then I started to realise how annoyed and frustrated I'd be getting that this other person "didn't understand".

Until the moment that I realised I was just arguing with ONE person. And it was much better to walk away. Soooo much more satisfying that way. You can just sit back and reassess. You soon see from this the petty arguments some people go into. Or the childish way they will intentionally mis-read your post. Or reply to it line by line to PROVE their point. When all they are really doing is showing how much of a petty idiot they really are. So many self-centred selfish people out there

You have to learn to laugh at the world.

( See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo Lyrics here for translation if required: http://www.thebards.net/music/lyrics...ide_Life.shtml )

That XKCD cartoon I linked to above was part of my revelation. Seeing that made me laugh and then realise it was me. So I sat back from the keyboard. I let the bickering go on without me. And I felt so much better. Walking away from an argument is much better than wading in to "Prove I am Right!".

It is then that you start to see that there are so many people out there just trying to pick a fight. Just like that drunken idiot in the pub. The person everyone would avoid in real life. So we learn to avoid them in the chat rooms. Avoid the confrontation.


@Warrior of the Light: I laughed when I saw your small print of 90mins of XKCD!! I used to leave it open as a tab in Opera when I was working through the back issues. There is so much simple wisdom in that comic. I especially love it as it is coming from an Engineer's view of the world. And we certainly look at the world in odd ways.
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Old 21st February 2013, 04:56   #9
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Because of my job, there are times when my daily routine changes quite a lot. Over the summer between mid June and mid August, I don't work at the school. I do other things on the side for income, but for the most part, I actually don't even go indoors unless to use the restroom including showering or occasionally prep food. I actually eat and sleep outside at a campsite near where I grew up. There's not much more than woods, a fire pit, a pond, and a tent. I still peek at WinAMP forums from time to time, but for the most part, I'm away from the internet. It's the kind of break that really helps me a lot.

There are smaller examples too, three separate weeks spread throughout the school year (in conjunction with U.S. holidays) where I pretty much abandon the computer and get in touch with a lot of out-of-town family and friends.

Those kinds of breaks help me to refresh a bit. I hope you have times like that too; it keeps you feeling good to be back when you return.

Don't forget to live before you die.
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Old 21st February 2013, 07:44   #10
Sabine Klare
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I don't know that anymore already, how does a park or a forest look...
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Old 24th February 2013, 01:48   #11
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Find somewhere you can get away, even if just for a little while. It's worth every second.




Don't forget to live before you die.
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Old 24th February 2013, 09:56   #12
Sabine Klare
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The Winter is really too long and too cold. I am already waiting for the Spring. The Treptower Park is only 3 S-Bahn-Stations away from our home. The way to the lake in Berlin-Zehlendorf is much longer, but I want to see it again like I did in May 2012. I want to walk around the lake again (90-100 minutes), and then I will come late again to the radio-chat or the others will miss me totally on that day, but walking around the lake is more important for me. For the long way in the Berlin S-Bahn I have my many MP3s, but at the lake I want to hear the birds again like 1 year ago...
The last days were not very nice. I prefer to leave a sign instead of using words. I have to accept, that cooperations are mostly only temporary. But it is full of risk to intervene in conflicts. I went already at my limits. Nobody knows, what can happen by trying that. A girl-friend tried that many years ago and she lost one of her teeth. I heard, another woman tried that, too, then she was beaten by a group of teenagers and she ended up in a hospital. Okay, I didn't lose a tooth now and I didn't end up in a hospital, but it was already too much. I leave the scenario with an uneasy feeling...
I was already thinking about to go away forever. Fortunately I know so much other artists around Electronic, Deep House, Ambient & Downtempo. Especially the GEMA-free artists, who prefer the Creative Commons, are giving me a lot. They are those persons, who let me decide to stay still in the communities. They pull me into their live-shows, they are writing PMs to me, and then I see, they need me, and I cannot leave them, so that I will stay...
I will see, what the next days will bring...
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Old 1st April 2013, 00:24   #13
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The topics belong to this thread...
The Spring Date has already been, we have already Easter, we have already April, but it's still cold and we have still snow. It will not become warmer for the next days or weeks. The lake has to wait...
I went through my life and my memories. And I remember some meeting-groups...
1981 the first meeting-group was founded as a mixed group by a teacher for religion, as a project for humanity and tolerance. Only less people from my class were choosen for the group, I was one of them, all the other teenager were not welcome, because they were full of prejudices. Some other teenager came from other schools. We had our meetings every 2 weeks in the afternoon. We played games and we made also little tours. Sure, there were also conflicts, and another girl made me very angry many times. 1985 the group was disbanded, after one of the boys had died. The other boy had managed his life much better, he was also in 2 music-bands, but later he decided to make music only solo and never to play in a band anymore because of intrigues. I can understand him...
1995 I learned to know the weekly open meetings, and 1996 I learned to know also the monthly meetings. In the beginning there were 7-11 people in the monthly meetings, 2004 I had counted once over 25 people, since 2005 less people came, but always enough people. 2008 the team had cancelled the monthly meetings for 1 year, then the team sheduled new meetings every 2 months, but then the team had abolished the meetings forever, because only 2 people came. There are still the weekly meetings in the same environment. In earlier times the meetings were much better and with a friendlier atmosphere. I had known many people, but I don't see them anymore. Many new people have come, and it's not the same for me. But there are 2 people since 1995 and 1997. The man was very friendly in the beginning, since 2002 he is unfriendly very often. He has the opinion, that also people, who want to stay in their home city, have to move to another city. He also ignores the fears of other people (if these people don't want to lose their material goods). And I never liked the other person, the woman. 2003 she yelled at me. I had to tolerate that, although I cannot forgive the people. But 2010 she had yelled at me again, after I had made a little mistake, and she had ruined my mood for that day. Can I tolerate that? No! And I don't understand, why I went still to the weekly meetings, although I didn't do that regularly anymore. I have to make a very difficult decision now, but maybe it's better not to cross the way of these 2 people anymore. I don't know, who of these 2 people should I hate more. One of them will go into retirement in a few years, the other person some years later. Maybe I can come back, if the first person is away from the weekly meetings...
Many years have passed, the times have changed, also for me. I had to learn again, that many things are not forever, also the meeting-points, which were much better many years ago and which have become worse in my eyes...
But then I have to keep my eyes open for new things...
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Old 9th April 2013, 03:33   #14
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I used to judge whether or not an outing was a success based on how many people showed up, but I've changed since then. I started doing more of what I wanted and less of what "they" wanted. Initially it caused people to fade away, and yet I was still enjoying that time a lot more, even if doing things all alone. The interesting thing is that eventually I was able to find more fitting people to spend time with because of this, and now I have the best of both worlds. Even if there's a time when no one shows up, I'm still doing what I love and don't need the extra people to keep me from having a good time.

Don't forget to live before you die.
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Old 9th April 2013, 06:15   #15
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Unfortunaley the man and the woman have together with their few colleagues the house right, they can also kick someone. All the other people are guests. The man greeted a girl-friend with a nasty remark, when she stopped by again after many years. The girl-friend also didn't like the woman. The woman yelled at me on the day, when I got a very sad message from Frank (suddenly he appeared, and I had already known, what had happened). The woman didn't have the right to yell at me, while I didn't feel so good. At another time, when I had made a little mistake, a normal critique would have been much better than yelling at me, and she did that on an event. No person should yell at another person on an event...
Christmas Events are celebrated at this meeting-point each year. Another girl-friend was in a music-group many times, and she wanted to have also me in this music-group, which has mostly new members each year. The music-group itself had also searched for new people, but the chief of this music-group didn't want to have me in her group, while other people were welcome immediately. This is very upsetting for a person with musical skills. Also on the yearly summer-parties I had never performed live. But I don't miss that anymore. I have Mixlr now, and I am doing my own live-events on Mixlr regularly...
On the weekly meetings other people are coming now, and less people than in earlier times. They all are so closed, I can talk with nobody anymore. I had always wondered, why many people from the earlier times, who were also on these meetings for a very long time, suddenly didn't come anymore, and I had known them all. It was possible to talk with them. But I have the answer now: They had also made bad experiences at least once (or more than only once), and then they decided to stay away...
1997 Frank and I had founded 2 own meeting-groups, and we had to search for new meeting-rooms many times. In the beginning many people came, then less people. 2000 nobody came anymore to one of the meeting-groups, and we had to disband it. 2002 we had to disband also the other meeting-group. Suddenly they all didn't have the time anymore for our monthly meetings, and mostly they had the same age. In Berlin there are 2 other big meeting-groups. Many people are coming to the monthly meetings since many years. They have different opinions and also disputes very often. But I don't really belong to them, because they all are much older than me...

Last edited by Sabine Klare; 9th April 2013 at 07:18.
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Old 13th April 2013, 00:04   #16
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Or they are just trying to pick an argument.
Or they just blabber senseless liberal bullshit. Or senseless conservative bullshit for that matter. I don't have to be right or wrong. Most of the time I wish I was wrong. I've learned from experience "Fly Straight or the World will kick your ass"

You can read the Bible and think it's God inspired, but you don't have to. I look at it like the human's owners manual. Political correctness puts you out of warranty. It also makes you a hazard to other drivers.
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Old 13th April 2013, 09:55   #17
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The incomprehension of some people is not very nice...
I remember now, 2006 this man had also said "A water damage is quite harmless. Be glad, Your apartment will be renovated!" But it wasn't harmless, when we experienced that. They wanted to bring our material goods into the container for a half or a whole year, without having access to them for that time. This man would also say: "Losing all material goods is not so terrible. If You have an insurance, then they will be replaced!" Or they will be not replaced, because the insurances always try to get a way not to pay. All the photos & films, drawings & paintings, recordings on tapes & cassettes & CD-Rs & VHS, older LPs & CDs, which are not available anymore, old heirlooms etc. can never be replaced, also not by an insurance. And then somebody doesn't have the right to say, it would be quite harmless...
When I felt very terrible 10 years ago, I did a telephone call, and unfortunately I got this woman at the telephone, and she had only yelled at me. I felt repelled. Someone else would have been more gentle to me and would never have yelled at me...
Another guest had been kicked by this woman because of a mistake. I didn't have been kicked, I myself have decided not to come anymore. There are enough other adresses, if I want to talk with somebody or just meet some people...
When we had the water damage, another woman said: "This was a warning from God, because You haven't followed the rules. The next time You will be punished much harder!" Which rules? We know only the ten commandments of the bible, and we didn't violate them. The original bible didn't have dogmas, the European Church created them much later. But why shouldn't we be allowed to live our own lifes with our own tastes & opinions and why shouldn't we read, listen & watch, what we want?...
And that's true, if people are very clever, then "they are just trying to pick an argument" to let us stand as "very bad persons"...
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Old 14th May 2013, 17:15   #18
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Now I myself was on strike for 24 days...
I know the internet, and I know, what can happen...
If a person breaks into tears, because one of the parents has died, then it's a normal reaction. When the sister of a neighbor found him dead in his apartment, she also breaked into tears. She cried much louder than me, and the police & emergency didn't yell at her. But it happened to me, after my father had died. Frank had thought, he shouldn't wait, until I would come home, after he got the telephone call. On the meeting there would be many people, I would know them all, and they could give me moralic help. He didn't know, that the woman would run to me, yell at me and force me to leave the room, where the other people were sitting, when I began to cry. The other people weren't allowed to give me moralic help, later one of them called me and tried to give me moralic help at the telephone...
I tried to keep an old community alive, in the first years it was possible, but not in the last years anymore. The old community had disintegrated and doesn't exist anymore. I had made many photos from us and gave the others the copies (where they themselves were on the photos). I made solo-photos and group-photos (until 2009/2010). I had invested many time for that, although I had to do also many other things, but I don't do that anymore, I'm ready with them, really ready...

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