Old 7th May 2016, 09:05   #1481
Pawel
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I was recently a bit pessimistic, so maybe something more optimistic now.
Such a reflection...
I mean, if people will still use Winamp like they do, if they still belive it will never die... I am glad there are still plenty of people who really cares and belive in better future...
Even if Radionomy will fail, there is still stable 5.666 build, that is actively supported by DrO.

I started to use Winamp long time ago (when i bought my first PC, I think it was in 1999). Winamp was the first Windows application I run
I still prefer to play music from my disk, not streaming. Winamp gives me everything I need. I am sure there are still plenty of You that feels the same.

Have a nice weekend!

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Old 7th May 2016, 22:44   #1482
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DJ Egg,

have you thought about recruiting Thinktink or someone like that to do some coding? there seem to be some talents on these forums.

if u do, just make sure the same scenario doesn't repeat, meaning that anything in the distribution is owned by winamp, not a dev who can pull it and severely cripple progress.

(and thats NOT a swipe at DrO, its not his fault that winamp allowed such a ridiculous arrangement)

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Old 8th May 2016, 00:20   #1483
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ridiculous arrangement if they shipped something which improved the overall usage for more than 10 years for free?
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Old 8th May 2016, 01:48   #1484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koopa View Post
ridiculous arrangement if they shipped something which improved the overall usage for more than 10 years for free?
my complaint isn't with the end achieved or the product, but rather with the process. in other words, what could happen, has happened, and its obviously extremely problematic, (at least in Eggs PoV).

imo, JTFE should either have been owned by winamp outright, OR left as a 3rd party plugin and not in the core distribution, (perhaps in the essentials pack).

would you not agree that going forward, it would be wise and prudent to not repeat that kind of arrangement?

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Old 8th May 2016, 02:20   #1485
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I disagree, the reason why there is no new Winamp for a few years now isn't the result of a shipped 3rd party plugin (Winamp shipped different 3rd parties over all the years btw, Predixis Music Magic etc), the reason is that the current owner just doesn't provide any dev ressource for a new version and doesn't show any interest in Winamp in general.

Whatever some people think is the reason, the lack of JTFE (features) isn't the reason why there is no new Winamp for sure.

Also problematic what people expect even if 5.8 would be released, many people won't be happy:

- no new features, basically the same like 5.666
- no queue support
- no skinned advanced jump to file window
- still no auto tag (same like in 5.666)
- still no CD info service (same like in 5.666)
- no file icon library support
- still no playlist generator (same like in 5.666)
- ....

Is it that what people want, upgrading to the same they are currently using just with a different version number?
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Old 8th May 2016, 03:49   #1486
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i didn't say that's why there isn't a new winamp, Egg did. but i really don't disagree with what u are saying tho.

but i also believe my point remains valid. JTFE should either have been owned by winamp, or not included in the core distro. and 3rd party stuff from companies like gracenote or predexis is a different animal altogether, although frankly look how thats turned out too. not real successful either.

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Old 8th May 2016, 12:59   #1487
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I disagree, the reason why there is no new Winamp for a few years now isn't the result of a shipped 3rd party plugin (Winamp shipped different 3rd parties over all the years btw, Predixis Music Magic etc), the reason is that the current owner just doesn't provide any dev ressource for a new version and doesn't show any interest in Winamp in general.

Whatever some people think is the reason, the lack of JTFE (features) isn't the reason why there is no new Winamp for sure.

Also problematic what people expect even if 5.8 would be released, many people won't be happy:

- no new features, basically the same like 5.666
- no queue support
- no skinned advanced jump to file window
- no auto tag like in 5.666
- no CD info service like in 5.666

- no file icon library support
- no playlist generator
- ....

Is it that what people want, upgrading to the same they are currently using just with a different version number?

The bolded Gracenote items aren't working in 5.666 either.
And there are some new features in the revised 5.8, and plenty of other changes & fixes.

Other than that, yes, now that DrO is gone and Benski is unavailable, we need a lead dev.

And I might well publicly release 5.8 beta very soon. We shall see.
I've already said everything relevant in previous posts, including that I'll inform you all of any decision made after DNAS 2.5 release.
The delay of the DNAS 2.5 release is chiefly what's caused the extended delays with Winamp.
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Old 8th May 2016, 13:01   #1488
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all stuff that it is missing I never used so no problem not to lose it with a new beta
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Old 8th May 2016, 14:10   #1489
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Quote:
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The delay of the DNAS 2.5 release is chiefly what's caused the extended delays with Winamp.
Which raises this question: What is causing the delay of the DNAS 2.5 release?
Is the answer the same: "we need a lead dev."?

Maybe the lack of progress in hiring a new developer shows that Radionomy is concentrating on bigger problems; perhaps the lawsuit launched by Sony Music.
Or maybe Radionomy has simply lost interest in Winamp, as Koopa and I and others have said.

The Radionomy forum is waiting for some announcement, scheduled for Monday, May 9.
That forum has posts from some very unhappy radio producers, and some which echo the complaints found in this forum about the lack of communication from Radionomy.
https://board.radionomy.com/

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Old 8th May 2016, 15:37   #1490
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The bolded Gracenote items aren't working in 5.666 either.
Edited my list to make it more clear.
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Old 8th May 2016, 16:49   #1491
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Which raises this question: What is causing the delay of the DNAS 2.5 release?
Is the answer the same: "we need a lead dev."?

Maybe the lack of progress in hiring a new developer shows that Radionomy is concentrating on bigger problems; perhaps the lawsuit launched by Sony Music.
Or maybe Radionomy has simply lost interest in Winamp, as Koopa and I and others have said.

The Radionomy forum is waiting for some announcement, scheduled for Monday, May 9.
That forum has posts from some very unhappy radio producers, and some which echo the complaints found in this forum about the lack of communication from Radionomy.
https://board.radionomy.com/

No, we do have a lead dev for SHOUTcast DNAS.
As explained in earlier posts, it was DrO, and that was mainly why there was little or no Winamp development between ~Sep 2014-15.
Now it's someone else.
The delays were due to issues with monetization and instability, which have now hopefully all been fixed.

I'm not going to discuss any potential/alleged legal matters in public, other than to say that I doubt too many non-US companies will be paying the exorbitant new CRB license/royalty fees for small US internet radio stations. It's a really sad state of affairs, and I seriously doubt if any individual small US stations can afford to pay said fees :-(

And Radionomy does care, and does have plans for Winamp.
It was supposed to be down to me and DrO to realise those plans, otherwise they'll probably just go ahead with their own plans instead. That was the key issue I was making with regards to having an experienced lead Winamp dev on the team...
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Old 8th May 2016, 17:23   #1492
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...

And Radionomy does care, and does have plans for Winamp.
It was supposed to be down to me and DrO to realise those plans, otherwise they'll probably just go ahead with their own plans instead. That was the key issue I was making with regards to having an experienced lead Winamp dev on the team...
And yet the Radionomy 'powers that be' still don't feel it is necessary to make an official announcement about what is happening with Winamp.

Die hard Winamp fans will continue to try and hang in, but it is getting harder and harder month by passing month.

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Old 8th May 2016, 17:26   #1493
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So my announcements aren't seen as official?


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Old 8th May 2016, 17:46   #1494
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It was supposed to be down to me and DrO to realise those plans, otherwise they'll probably just go ahead with their own plans instead. That was the key issue I was making with regards to having an experienced lead Winamp dev on the team...
Thanks Darren, Egg, for everything you guys contributed to Winamp over the years. And for still hanging in there.
Hopefully at some point soon things will pick up again and your latest efforts will pay off

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Old 8th May 2016, 17:55   #1495
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So my announcements aren't seen as official?


I didn't mean to imply that I don't trust what you report. I just feel that Radionomy should make a public statement, instead of, or in addition to, speaking thru an employee on this forum. Something that will get picked up by tech news sites and be more widely disseminated.

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Old 8th May 2016, 18:19   #1496
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Quote:
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And Radionomy does care, and does have plans for Winamp.
"I'm from Missouri."
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/I'm+from+Missouri

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Old 8th May 2016, 19:06   #1497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Egg View Post
And Radionomy does care, and does have plans for Winamp.
It was supposed to be down to me and DrO to realise those plans, otherwise they'll probably just go ahead with their own plans instead. That was the key issue I was making with regards to having an experienced lead Winamp dev on the team...
that sounds really ominous to me. so they were fine with you and DrO, or Benski, dealing with things / handling winamp, as long as it was 2 of the 3 of you, BUT since it is now just you alone, they are going to take it over and institute their own plans instead?

is that the correct read of the situation?

it sounds ominous to me b/c the one constant of winamp over the years has been its ethos, or spirit if you will. i think you Egg, are largely responsible for that, in so far as at least continuity and propagation of the mindset. if complete strangers come in and take it their own way, for whatever reason, that does sound like the end to me.

it seems to me they should just tell you "here's our budget for a lead dev" and you then go hire someone like Thinktink or Koopa or someone who "gets it" meaning, what winamp is all about.

have i completely misconstrued the situation?

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Old 8th May 2016, 21:20   #1498
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@MrSinatra
Hmm, no, that's not exactly what I was saying.
The key is having an experienced Winamp lead dev.
I'm not a lead dev. I'm also not in a position to hire anyone.
I also used the word "probably" there, because tbh, it was a bit of a guess...


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Hi. Good to hear from you :-)
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Old 8th May 2016, 22:11   #1499
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Re-thinking open source

I keep hearing that the new owners don't care so much about Winamp. Clearly, there is some truth in that, because it has been nearly two years since Winamp was sold and there have been no new updates.

So it's worth asking again: why not just release the software as open source? I fully appreciate that finding developers to work on any open source project is a challenge, but it cannot possibly be worse than the current situation. Why is releasing Winamp as open source important? For me, it's to ensure that I can keep using it when that day comes that Microsoft changes Windows and the current software doesn't work. I've done that a few times on projects in the past, ported software from Unix to Windows, etc. I don't really have time to work on Wimap, but I bet I'll suddenly find time if it doesn't work anymore.

Open source should be seriously considered. Put it out on GitHub for the benefit of everyone. It's pretty evident that money isn't the objective with Winamp. If it were, the project would have been properly funded.
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Old 8th May 2016, 23:48   #1500
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why not just release the software as open source? I fully appreciate that finding developers to work on any open source project is a challenge, but it cannot possibly be worse than the current situation.
But open source doesn't mean that magically it will start being developed on. Case and point, Digsby was a popular multi client messenger that became open sourced and the software just died out. While I do like software to have an open-source license, I know that doesn't mean anything regarding development. If anything, you should just start developing plug-ins to expand the current winamp.

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Old 9th May 2016, 00:20   #1501
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But open source doesn't mean that magically it will start being developed on. Case and point, Digsby was a popular multi client messenger that became open sourced and the software just died out. While I do like software to have an open-source license, I know that doesn't mean anything regarding development. If anything, you should just start developing plug-ins to expand the current winamp.
Sure, most open source projects are managed by developers at the company that owns the copyright to the software. That would be no different here, but at least if the company that now owns Wimamp decides to abandon the project, it will be available for the community to run the project, extend it, etc.

It might be tough to recruit developers right now since Winamp is already a very complete media player that is really stable. But, I do think there would be people who jump in to fix Winamp if it were broken. Making it available as open source might not increase the number of developers, but keeping the source closed isn't helpful, either.
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Old 9th May 2016, 20:17   #1502
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I dont understand why they bought winamp if they have no plan for it. If they dont have the money give the community the source and I think we will get a new great software again!
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Old 9th May 2016, 21:22   #1503
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I dont understand why they bought winamp if they have no plan for it. If they dont have the money give the community the source and I think we will get a new great software again!
It obviously was a packaged deal for Winamp, NSIS, and Shoutcast, so that's why, and since shoutcast and Winamp kind of go hand in hand I don't really see it being split up. Though I guess it could considering they plug-in functionality.

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Old 9th May 2016, 21:35   #1504
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It might be tough to recruit developers right now since Winamp is already a very complete media player that is really stable. But, I do think there would be people who jump in to fix Winamp if it were broken. Making it available as open source might not increase the number of developers, but keeping the source closed isn't helpful, either.
Actually I would think the only people right now are the ones working on it, especially DrO who is still working on it after leaving, as I have been following his blogs and can't help but to tip my hat in respect for that, with what he has done and what he is working on now. Same with DJ Egg, doing what he can. It's rough the state it's in now.

Open source I think might have been more viable a decade ago because people were much more active on creating plug-ins. That, at least what I seen, seemed to have thinned out greatly. I mean maybe it's just me, but really the only ones that still use Winamp are die hard fans who refuse to let go of their music collections. Majority of my friends that were once avid winamp users later turned to itunes and later just use spotify or pandora. I figure a lot of the original plug-in developers has either gone commercial and independent from winamp or just gave up the hobby all together. I mean, sadly the Desktop is a shrinking platform with now smartphones, smart tvs, etc.

Maybe some community can revive it, but how many people would be dedicated to the development and can actually program?

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Old 9th May 2016, 22:04   #1505
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...

I mean maybe it's just me, but really the only ones that still use Winamp are die hard fans who refuse to let go of their music collections. ...
I don't want to keep paying for the music I listen to more than once or twice. I do stream new stuff on occasion and if I really like it, I buy it. I do listen to free internet radio stations from time to time, but the music in my collection (encoded with higher sampling rates) usually sounds better to me.

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Old 9th May 2016, 22:27   #1506
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I don't want to keep paying for the music I listen to more than once or twice. I do stream new stuff on occasion and if I really like it, I buy it. I do listen to free internet radio stations from time to time, but the music in my collection (encoded with higher sampling rates) usually sounds better to me.
Agreed, and since I usually listen to European or underground electronic music from the 90s, that stuff just rarely available for steaming if ever.

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Old 10th May 2016, 19:20   #1507
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[...]
- still no playlist generator (same like in 5.666)
[...]
I'd still like to see at least just a simple random song picker with a rolling playlist like vect and I had implemented using ActiveWinamp scripts way back.. but unfortunately that broke (hard) due to the general state of disrepair of ActiveWinamp overall.

It had 5 previously played tracks, and an advanced queue of 15-20, all in the main playlist editor, a lot like the old Party Shuffle iTunes used to ship with. Can't be too tricky.


Anyway, it's been 10 years and I'm still avidly following along here and now DrO's blog. My forever-ago request for a little Smart View Query Language love still stands as well.

Request: A little SmartView Query Language love.
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Old 10th May 2016, 19:55   #1508
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It obviously was a packaged deal for Winamp, NSIS, and Shoutcast, so that's why, and since shoutcast and Winamp kind of go hand in hand I don't really see it being split up. Though I guess it could considering they plug-in functionality.
NSIS development is independent from SHOUTcast/Winamp.

NSIS is fully open source, Winamp.com only is hosting the NSIS forums.
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Old 11th May 2016, 10:36   #1509
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@DJ Egg. Good to hear from you and thanks for the updates. I hope there is a C++ dev out there, in a dark lonely bar sipping on his aged old whisky and tired of smoking his cigar, who will be willing to help Winamp.

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Old 12th May 2016, 17:04   #1510
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Winamp News

Whats the scoop on Winamp? Its been a couple of years and I haven't seen anything new come out.
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Old 12th May 2016, 17:05   #1511
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Whats the scoop on Winamp? Its been a couple of years and I haven't seen anything new come out.
read the thread

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Old 16th May 2016, 14:40   #1512
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Whats the scoop on Winamp? Its been a couple of years and I haven't seen anything new come out.

good lord
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Old 20th May 2016, 21:45   #1513
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Whats the scoop on Winamp? Its been a couple of years and I haven't seen anything new come out.

Looking back it would have been better if winamp was open sourced. You would have had a build by now instead of radionamy sleeping at the wheel. I mean radionamy doesn't even connect with the winamp community in an age of social media.
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Old 20th May 2016, 22:31   #1514
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Going opensource wouldn't really mean there would be a miraculous turnaround in development or that whoever the dev would be would ever tell users anything. I don't think endless forking is what would've gotten us a new version of Winamp (which still works). Also this has been discussed afew times in this thread, people bring it up and the idea gets knocked down then the cycle repeats.

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Old 24th May 2016, 01:34   #1515
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Going opensource wouldn't really mean there would be a miraculous turnaround in development
Agreed. Not to mention "endless forks". It would get messy fast.
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Old 26th May 2016, 05:32   #1516
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I feel bad, because I am a C++ dev, but I've done projects in my spare time, and it's hard to not stress out when I do that.

But I'm rooting for the next major release.

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Old 31st May 2016, 17:32   #1517
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Problem with making it open source is that it was their vision, going open source makes it everyone else's vision, that means a massive change to winamp depending on who is working on it, the winamp everyone loves could end up a horrible mess just as ultima said.
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Old 31st May 2016, 18:03   #1518
ariszlo
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Netscape went opensource and became Firefox. Chromium, the base of Google Chrome, is opensource, too. Opensource may work out well or may fail.
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Old 31st May 2016, 18:13   #1519
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Yes, but those examples have companies or organizations that are backing it and supporting it. As you can see, there's no real company/organization support for Winamp right now.

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Old 31st May 2016, 19:27   #1520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ariszlo View Post
Netscape went opensource and became Firefox. Chromium, the base of Google Chrome, is opensource, too. Opensource may work out well or may fail.
Mozilla gets/got tons of money from Google. With that money Mozilla engaged paid developers for Firefox, pays the hosting etc.
Without Google's money there would be no Firefox.

Even the open parts of Chrome are mainly developed by Google.

Even if you make something open source, you must have enough money to keep on development, pay infrastructure etc.
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