Old 1st April 2003, 07:40   #81
Telek
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Also I've noticed that sometimes comment lines get interpreted as variables, so sometimes you get "//A_comment" in the per frame variables textbox.
ie: x, y, wave_r, //A-comment, aa, beat,

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Old 1st April 2003, 18:07   #82
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Finally downlaoded this but it does work.

run time error 339

could not open tabctl32.ocx

the orginal attachment works but not the last/latest 2.

"Rules are for the guidance of wisemen and the obedience of fools"

Visuals - Morphyre www.Morphyre.com
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Old 15th April 2003, 18:45   #83
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My Slackness

Sorry I haven't been communicative lately. I got distracted making videos for an upcoming VJ show. And for some reason I haven't been getting the email notifications. I thought "hey, maybe everyone is so busy using it that they don't have time for chit-chat".

Anyhow, I noticed the greyed boxes thing too, but have yet to fix it or anything else. I'll try and address all the raised issues sometime tonite or wed, so look for a post within the next couple days.

Thanks for the bug reports, EMPR files, and suggestions,

-Esotic
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Old 15th April 2003, 18:49   #84
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Oh yeah, about the TabCTL32.OCX...

I haven't bothered making an installer yet, so you'll have to search online and download a copy of that control.

Here's a support link for someone else's product that should help.

http://www.a-fluffy.demon.co.uk/homeworld/hwse/faq.html
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Old 15th April 2003, 21:56   #85
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V0.0.0.34 - Fixed CheckBox Greyness, Missing Parameters, and Comments read as Vars

V0.0.0.34 - Fixed CheckBox Greyness, Missing Parameters, and Comments read as Vars during Analyzing
- Fixed checkboxes not turning grey every other time they get turned on
- Fixed missing parameters caused by unsupported function entered into User Function fields
- Fixed comments added into vars during analyzation

Let me know if I missed anything aside from the feature requests. I'll get to those as soon as I get a chance.

Whoot! Here it is,

-Esotic
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Old 18th April 2003, 21:13   #86
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V0.0.0.36 - Fixed Stack Space bug, New Options Menu, Added NoBoundsCheckingOnProvided

V0.0.0.36 - Fixed Stack Space bug, New Options Menu, Added NoBoundsCheckingOnProvidedCode
- Fixed a bug that would cause "out of stack space" errors
- Moved all option boxes to an "Options" menu. Loading a previously saved EMPR file will not populate the values with the saved information, but any EMPR saved from here on out will
- Added an option to skip bounds checking on provided code (in options menu)

Please note that the option menu items will not load from previously saved EMPR files, but will load from new ones.

No time to chat, I gotta learn DirectX9 and C++ at the same time...

...as always, report bugs and feel free to make suggestions.

Forever True,

-Esotic
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Old 18th April 2003, 22:27   #87
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YUS@@@
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Old 4th May 2003, 06:50   #88
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First of all, I'd like to say that EMPR is getting beter with every build. It's brilliant!

One more bug:
EMPR does not handle multi-line equations, eg:

dx = if(above(wave_max, bass_att)*bnot(beat+antibeat),
dx + beat*countdown*sin(wave_max),
dy - antibeat*0.0001);

Instead, it adds semi-colons to the end each line of the original code. I find it easier to write code this way sometimes when you have exceptionally long lines of code to manage - otherwise it's a pain to get to somewhere in the middle of the line (you gotta scroll from either end)

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Old 5th May 2003, 20:13   #89
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Bugs

I'll try and fix that bug in the next couple days.

I've been contemplating what new features would best help EMPR and it's users to be more productive. I have some concepts and am throwing them out for discussion and/or feedback (directly to me, if you wish).

1) Variable Modulation Types - Adding selection boxes on the variables form that would specify how you wanted EMPR to modulate a variable. Examples of modulation types would be: Increasing (variable starts at some value within the allowable range and then slowly increases), meandering (modulates randomly near the specified range), cyclic (cycles near the range).

2) Range Options - Checkboxes on a per preset or per variable basis to regulate variables: keeping them stricly within specified ranges, keeping them near specified ranges, keeping them within allowable milkdrop defined, no restrictions, etc.

3) Batching - Providing EMPR with source and destination directories and allowing it to load and randomize current presets in specified manners: changing color settings, adustments to function coefficients, adding and/or deleting lines of code, etc

4) Write to 1 Specified File - Specify an exact filename for EMPR to output to. This would allow you to easily reload the file in milkdrop to evaluate EMPR's effect.

5) Anything You Can Think Of - methods for increasing the quality of the randomly generated presets, the quantity of usable presets per run, and giving you more realtime feedback.

6) Renaming For Order - I wrote a program to randomly copies all MILK files from one directory to another and prepends a number to the filename. My motivation for doing this is that I don't trust the "load random preset" functionality of milkdrop to get even file coverage. It seemed like some presets were getting loaded more often than others. This mechanism forces a "shuffle" mode when you load the newly created files in order.

Sorry that got long-winded, but I wanted to cover all my recent thoughts. I have a big show on May 13th, but plan to jump back on EMPR heavily thereafter (for at least a week). So.... get your feature requests in before then and I'll try to get them all programmed. And be ready to nitpick my programming slackness.

Thank God It's Milkdrop,

-Esotic
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Old 6th May 2003, 14:17   #90
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Re: Feature Requests

Quote:
Originally posted by Esotic
I'll try and fix that bug in the next couple days.
1) Variable Modulation Types - Adding selection boxes on the variables form that would specify how you wanted EMPR to modulate a variable. Examples of modulation types would be: Increasing (variable starts at some value within the allowable range and then slowly increases), meandering (modulates randomly near the specified range), cyclic (cycles near the range).

I would like to see this as a button next to 'PF Vars Left Side' to open up a new dialog with currently entered PF left vars (and so would include user vars) down the left and columns of check boxes to the right.
Quote:
2) Range Options - Checkboxes on a per preset or per variable basis to regulate variables: keeping them stricly within specified ranges, keeping them near specified ranges, keeping them within allowable milkdrop defined, no restrictions, etc.

Put these on the same dialog as above(?)
Quote:
3) Batching - Providing EMPR with source and destination directories and allowing it to load and randomize current presets in specified manners: changing color settings, adustments to function coefficients, adding and/or deleting lines of code, etc

Sounds good. Can't think of a way to connect into current interface.
Quote:
4) Write to 1 Specified File - Specify an exact filename for EMPR to output to. This would allow you to easily reload the file in milkdrop to evaluate EMPR's effect.

Sounds fair, but wouldn't this mean you would only be able to generate one preset at a time? Would get a bit slow?
Quote:
5) Anything You Can Think Of - methods for increasing the quality of the randomly generated presets, the quantity of usable presets per run, and giving you more realtime feedback.

Can think of anything at the mo
Quote:
6) Renaming For Order - I wrote a program to randomly copies all MILK files from one directory to another and prepends a number to the filename. My motivation for doing this is that I don't trust the "load random preset" functionality of milkdrop to get even file coverage. It seemed like some presets were getting loaded more often than others. This mechanism forces a "shuffle" mode when you load the newly created files in order.

Probably wouldn't use it.

I would find these useful:
- resizable layout:- PF and PP Equations textboxes would resize to fill vertical space, all non-numeric textboxes would resize horizontally to fill space

- Is it possible to get the equation displays to not display "per_frame_xx=" at the start of every line. ie: just display as it does in Milkdrop?

- Have somewhere on the display the source files used, even in a menu : File->Source Info...
' Code: Idiot24-7 - Mind Bender 1.milk
' Telek - Flicker (@xis).milk
' Variables: Krash - Beat Code.milk
' Analysed: Aderassi - Airs.milk
(The second code file would have been appended)
Because I always forget which ones I used, and in wanting to give credit to previous authors, I have little success.
- OR put this info in the output file, as comments!

- A small point: consistency in the wording of the options
"Bounds checking on existing code"
"Autosave EMPR file w/Batch"
"Smart Randomising"
"User Variables Only (When Available)"<-"what does this one mean btw?
"Regulate Variable values"
Having them all in a 'non-negated' sense makes them easier to understand.

- Just on that, how about a tad bit more documentation - I know it sucks, but still don't know what half the stuff is

- Is it possible to only have "Clear Output directory to only delete files in the output directory that have the full EMPR file name format: so that if I am in Milkdrop, and rename a few of my favorite output files, to, say 'EMPR - Random - A cool one.milk' this won't get deleted?
- OR just have a 'Delete Last Batch' command. Actually I like this idea better. Do this one. Please.
- OR just a delete batch command, brings up a dialog with all current austosave files in output directory that have .milk files still around with their time stamp in their names.

- Have a button next to the PF anf PP functions dialogs "all" which will set these fields to have all available functions (ie: what appears in the tool tip currently)

- What happens to the Rating in the files- I seem to recall that these were randomised too: wouldn't this be best to just be set to, say 3?

- Ensure that 'monitor' isn't picked up as a right var.

- I just thought of a sneaky way to include Krash's Beat code into the program. If 'beat' is put in 'right vars' and it is not in the 'left vars' or in the code, then it refers to the Krash code, which is inserted into the milk file implicitly, during preset production.

- If any q1-q9 are referred to in PP Right Vars, then they are automatically added to PF Left Vars, during the preset production.

- I was also trying to think of a different UI, but haven't come up with anything mentionable yet. I might pop up again in a few days with something.

Well, you asked for requests!

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Old 6th May 2003, 15:17   #91
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Dalekmania

>"User Variables Only (When Available)"<-"what does this one mean btw?

This option tells EMPR to only use variables that you have supplied. I.E. ignore the complete set of possible milkdrop vars and use only the ones in the PP and PF user vars entry fields (which can contain predefined milkdrop vars and user vars created in the provided code).

Good suggestions. I have some resizing code, but haven't incorporated it into the program yet. I'll try to get that in sooner than later.

And in reference to clearing the output directory... How about a dialog box for entering a filemask prefilled with a string containing the timestamp used in the last batch. You could then edit the filemask if necessary before clearing the directory.

Boogedy,

-Esotic
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Old 9th May 2003, 00:26   #92
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Quote:
And in reference to clearing the output directory... How about a dialog box for entering a filemask prefilled with a string containing the timestamp used in the last batch. You could then edit the filemask if necessary before clearing the directory.
/Quote

Sounds perfect!

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Old 9th May 2003, 10:48   #93
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I'll post up some of the Presets I've done with EMPR in a few days. First I have to try to figure out who some of the original Authors were. Can't take the credit for other people's genius now, can we?
I've got about 70 good ones I've picked out, might narrow it down a bit to my real favourite ones...

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Old 9th May 2003, 14:20   #94
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If you think about it post up the EMPR files as well.

-Pharnley McSnoodles
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Old 9th May 2003, 14:23   #95
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And oh yeah, I'm all about getting more presets than less presets. I use a lot of blending, so even presets that might not look as cool by themselves kick much butt as a blending seque into something else.

Whoot!

-Sir Lady General Specific the III
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Old 9th May 2003, 20:18   #96
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I haven't played around much with it lately, but I downloaded the latest build. IT's great
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Old 14th May 2003, 20:34   #97
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First off, I'd like to congratulate Esotic on making this program. This is what the MilkDrop Helper that I was trying to make a while back should have been
That said, I have a code suggestion

If you drop the attached module into the project and change

txtDir = GetSetting("EMPR", "Settings", "Dir", txtDir)

in form_load to

txtDir = GetSetting("EMPR", "Settings", "Dir", GetSettingString(HKEY_CURRENT_USER, "software\Winamp", "", txtDir.Text) & "\Plugins\MilkDrop\Random\")

it should make it so the program will automatically detect where Winamp is installed on first run, and set the directory appropriately.
You'll also want to remove the "\Plugins\MilkDrop\Random\" from txtDir.Text, or else the default will end up as "G:\Program Files\Winamp\Plugins\MilkDrop\Random\\Plugins\MilkDrop\Random\"
I suggest this change mainly 'cause I don't even have a G drive
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Old 14th May 2003, 20:57   #98
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Dude, you code!

I actually wasn't aware that there had been a previous attempt at a preset generator. I may just have to go poking around the archives for it.

I should be making a (smallish) update in the next couple days and will integrate your fantabulous suggestion.

Pour some MilkDrop on me,

-Esotic
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Old 14th May 2003, 21:48   #99
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Note that I said should've been
It didn't amount to much, and my goal at the time was basically just an editor, not a generator.
I did hope to eventually include pre-generated code from the board regulars, but I got distracted by other things and lost interest...

Seikimatsu no Kyuppiddo
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Old 17th May 2003, 00:08   #100
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V0.0.0.37 - WinAmp Dir Detection, Props Comments, Resizing, Removed

V0.0.0.37 - WinAmp Dir Detection, Props Comments, Resizing, Removed per_ dependency
- Fixed a psuedo bug with random function that nobody probably noticed.
- Loading defaults now locates the currently registered WinAmp directory and load the PlugIns\MilkDrop\Random dir into the destination directory entry field
- Loading and/or Appending data now creates comments specifying what bits came from which presets.
- Lines in the provided per_frame and per_pixel equations no longer need to be appended with per_xxxxxxxx
- The forms now resizes with some amount of grace.

The EMPR.zip is too big to upload now, so you'll have to get it from here:
http://artkolective.com/EMPR.zip

Just cuz I'm coding on a friday night does not make me uncool.

As always please feel free to pad my ego with your glorious comments and report bugs post-hast.

Richard Cheese Is The Man,

-Esotic
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Old 21st May 2003, 04:47   #101
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V0.0.0.41 - File Association, Bug Fixes

V0.0.0.41 - File Association, Bug Fixes
- Fixed a bug by forcing a Line Feed before appending code
- If you use "Open With" in windows EMPR will now load a file when you double click on it (i.e. If You Create a File Assocation It Will Work)

And as before, go here to get the latest version (and hope your internet cache doesn't just hand you the one you already downloaded):
http://artkolective.com/EMPR.zip

I'm still ramping up for that big round of changes I was talking about before.

Do the Dew,

-Esotic
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Old 21st May 2003, 12:17   #102
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Blank line bug (new)

New bug in V0.0.0.37, also present in V0.0.0.41

Blank lines in loaded presets are replaced with "per_xxxxxxx=".
Therefore, no generated presets run.
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Old 21st May 2003, 17:47   #103
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Telek...

Can you double check the version of the EMPR.Exe that you're running? Make sure you actually got the 0.0.0.41.

I just downloaded and checked the source code and the compiled EXE and they both appear to be working fine with the EMPR file in the ZIP you supplied.

The presets that it kicked out looked completely phizatt, btw.

And Yippee! I finally made it to "Member", huh-huh,

-Esotic
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Old 22nd May 2003, 14:14   #104
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yes, it is v.41, as verified by the readme.txt. Only with (...snip)

ahem, well I just checked it again, and now it appears to work. I may have done something stupid like not quitting the program (EMPR) after downloading .41. Well, all good now.

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Old 22nd May 2003, 14:24   #105
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It's all food.

-Esotic
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Old 22nd May 2003, 15:21   #106
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Really? You must have one hell of an appetite!

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Old 18th June 2003, 01:09   #107
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V0.0.0.42 - Clear Directory File Mask, Variable Modulation Types

V0.0.0.42 - Clear Directory File Mask, Variable Modulation Types
- Added a file mask to the "Clear Output Directory" option.
- Added variable modulation types. Only WaveSize and Rotation are currently user selectable, all others are random.

My apologies to Telek for not adding the file mask sooner.

I miss being able to easily track how many people have downloaded the latest version, so there is no more source code in the attached ZIP. If you want it just ask me (esotic@artkolective.com).

This is the first incantation of "Modulation Types", so it might only be moderately cool, but I feel like it's an evolutionary step for the program. I'm gonna continue to cull through the your greatest presets for more ideas, but as always feel free to make suggestions.

-D(+>
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Old 24th July 2003, 04:41   #108
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V0.0.0.43 - One-Offs and Midi Routing

V0.0.0.43 - One-Offs and Midi Routing
- Added Midi Routing to the EMPR, I ported the code from another program and haven't tested it
- Added One-Offs, which allow a more immediate user experience.

One-Off's
o Start Milkdrop (Windowed Mode or Dual Screen).
o Start EMPR
o Set The Output Filename to an "C:\Dir\Something.MILK" so that it's the only file in the directory. You will have to manually create this directory (until I code it smarter).
o Select the appropriate MilkDrop window on the "Routing" tab. This can be the output window or the I/O window.
o Hit the "create" button and EMPR will generate a preset with the given filename and then send an "h" to the specified milkdrop window causing the preset to reload if it's the only MILK file in the directory.
o Hit the SAVE button to save presets that strike your fancy into the directory specified in the entry box. This should not be the same DIR as the output filename or the auto reload won't fuction correctly.

Midi Routing
o EMPR should now forward MIDI messages from the first 10 midi channels to the specified MilkDrop windows on the "Routing" tab

Channel Controller Pad/Note On
-------- ---------- -----------
One Zoom i/I Blend - Space
Two DX [/]? Cut - h
Three DY {/}? Next Wave - w
Four ROT </> Flip - f
Five Amp j/J List - L
Six Warp Amp Escape - Esc
Seven Warp Scale Up - Up Arrow
Eight Gamma g/G Down - Down Arrow
Nine 2nd Layer Scale
Ten 2nd Layer Alpha Return - Enter

I'll put in auto directory creation and support for the additional 1.04 features as soon as I find time. And who wants a help file?



Hoosier, Daddy

-Esotic
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Old 24th July 2003, 06:18   #109
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Being sleepy, I may be doing something wrong, but I keep getting the error when hitting the create button for one-offs:
Run time error '457'
This key is already associated with an element of this collection.

I haven't tried the midi routing or channel controller pad yet, I'll have to post about those later. Yes please to all your planned improvements.

Anybody who hasn't tried EMPR really should. Great program, Esotic, thank you.
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Old 24th July 2003, 14:38   #110
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457 Error... Hmmm....

I tested it, I swear.

Can you send me the EMPR file that's causing the problem?

MD 1.04 is the bizomb, yo,

esotic@artkolective.com
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Old 18th October 2005, 16:39   #111
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Do you think you could add a function which makes a database of all the objects shapes and waveforms that have been customly programmed into the set lines of the milk files so that you can combine any randomly into a new preset? . it would be great if you could mix and match objects and postprocessing while seeing what the Combinations do.

You could also search through all the per frame and per pixel code in the preset files also have them in a database and also mix them into any new file randomly on the end of any of the random objects that would be lovely! Actually I don't know if the program does that already and trying to get it running.

I've just been about X minutes getting all the files and now I have imgedit.ocx missing. do I have to restart the computer to run the program?

Some links would be nice! Thanks!
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Old 18th October 2005, 16:52   #112
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I just searched for image edit for another 20 minutes, can't find it what do I do now?
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Old 18th October 2005, 17:18   #113
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I should probably round up the necessary files and make an installer or something. Lemme look into this and post an updated ZIP or something to my website. I haven't looked at or working on this program in a long damn time, so I'm not sure how useful it will be.

Cheers,

-Esotic
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Old 18th October 2005, 17:56   #114
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Quote:
Originally posted by Babylon-warp
Do you think you could add a function which makes a database of all the objects shapes and waveforms that have been customly programmed into the set lines of the milk files so that you can combine any randomly into a new preset?
EMPR was first written before MD version 1.04 (with which came shapes and custom waveforms) and so doesn't have capabilities for these at the moment - Esotic: Do you have a few spare weeks?

Quote:

You could also search through all the per frame and per pixel code in the preset files also have them in a database and also mix them into any new file randomly on the end of any of the random objects that would be lovely! Actually I don't know if the program does that already and trying to get it running.
It sort of does this, it randomly adds lines on to the end of your code, and allows you to mix presets by "appending" another files code..


Quote:

I've just been about X minutes getting all the files and now I have imgedit.ocx missing. do I have to restart the computer to run the program?

Some links would be nice! Thanks!
I have version 0.0.0.36 (right click on icon, properties, version tab) and it runs fine (I just checked) and I also searched my harddrive - I don't have any file called imgedit.ocx on my computer! Try starting from that version, and move forward until you find one that doesn't work..

A Mystery..

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Old 18th October 2005, 20:09   #115
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You can get the control here:

http://esotic.com/media/imgedit.zip

I tracked down the source. The Image Edit control was used to grab a pic from an attached webcam and write it to a specific location. I have a Yamaha SU 700 sampler, and had written EMPR to translate the MIDI messages from the controllers and buttons into keystrokes. One of the buttons on the sampler took a picture from the webcam and then loaded the pic by sending the proper keystrokes to the MilkDrop VJ window.

You can get the latest version of the EMPR complete with source code here:

http://esotic.com/media/empr.zip

I should probably go in and take out the ImgEdit.OCX reference from the VJ project, but will need to get to that a little later.

Let me know if you have any questions,

-Esotic
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Old 18th October 2005, 20:14   #116
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As an aside...

Someone really outta implement some MIDI into MilkDrop. Like having MIDI variables that map from controllers and buttons in the per-frame and per-pixel equations.

And isn't there something superior to MIDI out these days? 128 divisions per controller seems a bit too digital for me. I'd much rather be passing around floating point variables.

I'm just sayin',

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Old 21st October 2005, 12:41   #117
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Hey that is excellent thanks! I'm sure it all right to put all the DLLs ocx alongside the installer because it's free.

I'm just looking into this at the moment I'm not sure where the image edit.ocx should be but version 0 .36 runs well. also a bit confused by the save presets / invalid path name crash.

I'm seeing if I can use Ultra edit text editor and Dragon NaturallySpeaking action macros to randomly select preset lines using keywords across random .MILK files and recombine them into a new file just by saying some phrases.

The advantage with this is that you can tell Dragon NaturallySpeaking to save the preset file and then go to milkdrop and run the preset all in one phrase. I'm just thinking about it though I haven't even started.

I'm trying to get my head round what blocks of the code I should copy and mix together. how the frame /per pixel wave and object definitions can be interchanged, probably just swap them round and also swap around the first x lines of text with the basic definitions- I not familiar with the . milk format what a head mash.

as for MIDI controllers, you want to use two knobs on MIDI controller to define fine and course modulations so you have 128 x 128 number of steps/ higher bit resolution.

You might be interested in the p5 glove which is a really cheap virtual reality glove that can assign 10 MIDI controllers to one glove- 5 MIDI controllers on the dimensions of the glove position/rotation and one for each finger.
basically it's a toy virtual reality glove with MIDI drivers.

I just got one for USD30 but I'm still waiting for it to come in the post-not sure if they are that precise but it should be trippy.

How many logical parts do you think the preset should be divided into to be able to jumble them?
using milkdrop is giving me some ideas for designing synthesisers, it would be nice to have a synthesiser where you can paint sounds that look like as good as the visualisation.
For my next synthesiser I am setting a target of being able to paint in incredible hook based tracks nice and slowly step by step.
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Old 21st October 2005, 15:36   #118
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as for mass mixing of random presets, its posible, but you'd need a good AI program to do it right. my presets for example are usuly based off of mytime type varables, ie. mytime = mytime + something, so if you where to mix one of my waves/shapes with the perframe code from a preset that uses the bass/mid/treb from MD for reaction, then my wave/shape is gonna look like crap, and not a nice healthy crap ither, ya know one of those wet ones that makes you regret eating that second bowl of chilli the night before.

so, that said, this has also been on my mind alot latly, your gonna have to compare the per-frame of each preset, compare how they work, if they both run off the same beatdection, then you can mix to your hearts content. if one uses krash's beatcode, and the other uses no beatcode, your gonna have to add krashes beatcode, keep the old perframe, figure set up q1-q8 so theres no conflicts, then mix the per-point/shapes/waves after(of course) you go into the code for them, and change all the q1-q8 vars to line up whith the values there suspost to.

i'm sure you can see how this would get really ugly for mixing more than 2 presets. and thats not even getting into the nitty gritty of the waves/shapes(what if you have two presets that both use 4 waves, and look crappy with only 3 of those waves? thats a lot of frame%2ing to do, and would prolly result in ~10fps, i've tryed it)

if this is gonna get done, dragon naturaly speaking isnt goning to have a damn thing to do with it. the only thing that has a chance(to make it look good) is some damn good coding.

oh and on the topic of synthisers the other day,i was dreaming of a milkdrop style dsp pluging, where you could wright presets that would make music or just effect what was playing..... seems kinda far fetched but it may be posible....

Blah!
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Old 21st October 2005, 15:59   #119
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far fetched, yes .. but definitely very intriguing...

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Old 23rd October 2005, 13:31   #120
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I'm just think of mixing whole chunks of per frame code without mixing them together and trying them on different wave shapes, I don't think whether you have two or three custom waves or whatever makes any difference, for the same reason that transitions most often look good.

All the equations should be made to track the beat in Winamp, and no matter what the tempo of each beat tracking setting is, whether it is 16t as long as none of the equations are actually out of time then they should mix perfectly. Why people would want to mix out of time variables into visualisation I don't know.

on the whole though the reason why transitions looks good is the same reason why simple but well ordered mixing of milkdrop files would look good. do you reckon transitions are all out of time?

The odd thing about comparing milkdrop with a synthesiser is that milkdrop is based on photons mixing together across an XY grid and music is based sonic vibrations that in amplitude in patterns from microseconds to whole minutes and that incorporate a 12 tone division. So mixing the two in most ways would be symbolic.

I don't think that the way milkdrop interprets music is quite right. If you look at audio waves like this
http://images.google.co.uk/images?so...ve&sa=N&tab=wi
the variation of the amplitude over several seconds goes from one to zero very obviously. The same happens when you filter it for example with bass/treble, in music you would usually use a peak detect calculation to be able to detect amplitude within about 1 ms, the kind of thing you'd want in milkdrop.
if you can translate a peak detect amplitudes of two or three signals going through some filters, and you translate them directly to object amplitude, it would look a lot better. That's a bit off topic anyway. some of the beat detection and milkdrop is really good though.

I'm coming from an audio background and the learning curve is really steep which is part of the reason why it will take time for me to have a look at Esotic's programme.
What I know as a result is that you are comparing apples and oranges, the kind of bright imagination is the having when you are caned but that often don't get over the detail of enough.

It's like taking equations from astronomy and trying to apply them to music. The result would be completely algorithmic music.

Dragon NaturallySpeaking is crap you're right-even though it does DLL calls it's just adapted to controlling the desktop, and it would indeed take a half decent program take the different parts of each milk file and mix them together into a new one. actually it's very simple to program but you have to know C++ or whatever.

Milkdrop is magnificent I just don't have time to get into the maths because I'm doing so much work I'd just like to play around with the amazing work that the programmers have already done on it, which is basically just mixing the Independent parts of the milkdrop file so you can just click on a few things until you have a nice visualisation.
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