Go Back   Winamp & SHOUTcast Forums > SHOUTcast > SHOUTcast Technical Support

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 15th August 2018, 21:21   #1
SoLoRiZe
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 83
Shoutcast stream buffering problem - possible cause pin pointed

Hi,

Over the past 5 months I have been having constant buffering problems on my
Shoutcast Streams. Which I think I have finally worked out where the problem could lie.

I have narrowed it down to the Windows 10, April 2018 Update (version 1803)
So just wondering if anyone else has had similar problems with buffering, since the
above Windows 10 update?


Background on my buffering problem and what I did to pinpoint where I think the problem is.

I have four Shoutcast streams that I run from my laptop at home using:
WinAMP: 5.666 Build 3516
DSP Plugin: 2.3.5 build 222
DNAS: 2.5.5.733
Shoutcast Streams:
256kbps MP3
128kbps MP3
64kbps AAC
12kbps AAC

I noticed that my 256kbps stream started buffering after approx. 5mins, every time
I connected. So I checked my 128kbps stream and that started to buffer after approx. 9mins.

With what I was seeing, it looked like it happened after a certain amount of data had been
sent. i.e. with the 128kbps (which is half the speed of the 256kbps stream), taking twice
the amount of time before the buffering occurred.

I also ran a continuous ping test to see if there were any latency problems.
I was getting: Pings ~8-20ms, so I ruled that being a problem.

I have plenty enough bandwidth for my required listeners slots, so know that is not a problem,
as have been running for years without this buffering problem. I have also checked my
router/modem connection speed and it still reports the same upload and download speed and
no problems reported. I also ran a speed test and that confirmed all was OK.

I tried switching from Wifi to wired Ethernet connection, but I still had the buffering problem.

I also turned off the router/modem for 2hours, turned it back on and had everything
connected back again, the buffering still occurred.

I flushed and renewed my DNS servers via ipconfig. Just on the off chance to see if that helped,
but it did not.

I then disabled all my streams, with the exception of the 256kbps stream.
Turned off my AntiVirus and Firewall and then rebooted my laptop.
Then tested again, but I still had the buffering problem.


Last-ditch attempt

After exhausting everything I could think of, I then decided to bite the bullet and restore
a previous backed-up 'disk image' of my whole system.

So after going incrementally back through all my backups I finally got to one that did not buffer
my streams, which I had taken back in March 2018 (Before this April Windows 10 update!)
So I let the system run for a couple of days and I did not experience any buffering, all worked
correctly and smoothly!

With everything looking good, I decided to step-through/install the various available Windows
updates to see if I started to get the buffering again... and low and behold! Once the
April 2018 Update (version 1803) was installed the buffering came back, so I had finally
pin pointed the culprit!


Conclusion

Now I am stuck as what to do, as I have dropped back to the working backup, but Windows 10
will automatically update me to the 1803 version at some point, and I will end up with the
buffering problem again.

I have looked online into the various ways to disable windows updates, but it looks like no
matter what you; edit/tweak etc.. Windows update will re-enable itself and force the updates.

From what I can see none of these are truly permanent ways of disabling the updates. And
even if I could do it permanently, this would mean my system would not get security fixes and
would gradually become vulnerable/unstable.


Lifeline?

So now I’m just hoping that someone on this forum know’s what in the Windows April 1803 update
may be affecting the shoutcast stream/buffer, and a possible fix/workaround etc.. that I can try.

Any help would be appreciated.

+.:: MRD Photography ::.+
http://www.mrdphotography.co.uk
SoLoRiZe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2018, 08:52   #2
DJ-Garybaldy
Major Dude
 
DJ-Garybaldy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Harpurhey, Manchester UK
Posts: 810
Have you tested other Stand Alone Encoders to see if they buffer?

If they do the same as the DSP then you need to speak to your ISP to report upload issues on your connection.



Proud USER of RadioDJ since 2011 - People say I'm biased!

Online: Twitter - Facebook - RadioDJv2
DJ-Garybaldy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2018, 22:45   #3
SoLoRiZe
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 83
Hi DJ-Garybaldy,

Thanks for your reply.

I am pretty sure that it is not anything to do with the DSP / Encoding.
nor my ISP.

As everything works fine if I restore my 'disk image' of Window 10 ver. 1709,
which I was running before the Window 10 update ver. 1803.

I have tested again today, by restoring Win10 ver. 1709 and then listening
to my streams for a couple of hours and there was no buffering. But as soon as
I do a Windows update, which installs the April 1803 update.. bang my streams
start buffering again after 5mins or so.

So it is definitely something within this update that causes the streams to buffer.

I will however try some other Encoders, as you suggest, just to see if it miraculously
helps, but I am pretty certain that I will have the same problem.

+.:: MRD Photography ::.+
http://www.mrdphotography.co.uk
SoLoRiZe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th August 2018, 04:55   #4
jaromanda
Forum King
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Under the bridge
Posts: 2,289
It's most likely either an audio device driver or network device driver - though you say you've used both ethernet and wifi with exactly the same issue, so, my guess is some bug/regression/pain in the ass change with an audio device driver

Is it just me or are shoutcast users getting dumber?
jaromanda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st August 2018, 01:14   #5
jorge soto
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 9
I don't think it's your system, I think it's a shoutcast problem, I have the same issues and I'm not using windows, I run Linux.
jorge soto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st August 2018, 21:24   #6
dopelabs
Major Dude
 
dopelabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 527
Send a message via AIM to dopelabs
its probably a combination... has anyone tested from a well connected system in a data center? from different geographic locations? i can test from san jose ca, fremont ca, los angeles ca, london uk, and zurich ch.

using an sc_serv running at one of the above locations, theres 2 ways to set this up.

to test FROM shoutcast to sc_serv, you would configure at shoutcast to relay sc_serv, then stream to sc_serv.

to test TO shoutcast from sc_serv, you would stream to sc_serv, then we can use any number of tools to tune in and re-stream/relay to shoutcast.

as is most often the case, data centers will use different providers for their inbound and outbound traffic. so being able to test both using the 'push/pull' methods above can be informative.

i can also provide load testing to see if maybe its a bandwidth related issue...

msg me if this might sound like something youd want to do
dopelabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2018, 12:29   #7
SoLoRiZe
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 83
After spending the past week testing and trying various things to
rectify my buffering problem, I think *fingers crossed* I have finally
found what the cause was and so far it all seems to work with no
buffering issues.

Testing under Windows 10 update 1803

I can confirm that running another 'Stand Alone Encoder', I tried
MB Recaster, it also had the buffering problems too.

So I ruled out it being a specific problem with an encoder.



I then Dropping back again to a Windows 10 backup image 'pre update 1803'

Re-tested with Shoucast Encoder, and everything works fine with no
buffering. Also with MB Recaster there was no buffering either.

So I was now 100% sure that it was something in the 1803 Windows 10 update
that has caused the buffering problem.



What I eventually found out was..

After checking my audio drivers pre and post Win 10 update 1803
I noticed that the High Definition Audio Device drivers were
updated;

From
version:10.0.1.16299.251
date:21-02-2018

To
version 10.0.17134.228
date:03-08-2018

So I then trawled the iNet to see if anyone else had this problem
and after about 4hrs of searching and narrowing my search down
to people who had audio problems with my specific laptop after
the Windows 10 update 1803. I finally stumbled upon this thread:

https://www.dell.com/community/Latit...s/td-p/6079998


In which a poster stated that they installed an older version of the
Intel Rapid Storage Driver, driver version 14.8.0.1042, for a client
who had audio problems and it had worked.

So I tried this.... and low and behold no more buffering problems !! Result LOL.


Conclusion:

So I can definitely state that it was the 1803 update that has caused the buffering problem,
as I these drivers must have been updated.

Obviously the above remedy worked for me for my specific machine,
but hopefully this may help other people know where to look if they have
similar buffering problems.

Thanks again for everyone who replied to this post, much appreciated.

+.:: MRD Photography ::.+
http://www.mrdphotography.co.uk
SoLoRiZe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Winamp & SHOUTcast Forums > SHOUTcast > SHOUTcast Technical Support

Tags
1803, buffering, windows 10

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump