Old 22nd February 2005, 03:34   #321
sacredpixel
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Manuscripts

1. More than 24,000 handwritten copies of portions of the original manuscripts still exist.

2. By contrast. there are only 643 copies of Homer's Iliad (900 BC) available.

3. One fragment of Scripture dates back to within 25 years of the original writing.

4. There is a gap of 500 years between the oldest copy of the Iliad and the original.

5. There is more evidence for the reliability of the New Testament manuscripts than any 10 pieces of classical literature combined.

6. The Biblical manuscripts we have today are in far better shape than Shakespeare's plays of the 17th century.

7. Without printing presses prior to 1450 AD, manuscripts were copied by hand. Jewish scribes were fanatically meticulous in copying and preserving the "oracles of God."

8. The Biblical manuscripts have miraculously survived banning, burning, criticism, cynicism, scrutiny, skepticism, vicious external and internal attacks.

9. Accuracy:

a) No recently-found manuscripts contradict earlier ones.
b) The "Isaiah Scroll", among the Dead Sea Scrolls found in a cave in 1947, predates the previous earliest Isaiah manuscript by 1,000 years, yet is exactly the same.
4. Canon means a standard or code of laws established by a church council
1. Is it authoritative ("thus saith the Lord")?
2. Are its prophecies accurately fulfilled?
3. Is the manuscript authentic or fake?
4. Is it dynamic? Does it impress you as a true word of God?
5. Is accepted as God's Word and used as such by God's people?

Adoption of the 27 New Testament books into the Canon took place at the Synod of Hippo in North Africa in 393 AD. This was a meeting of Roman Catholic bishops in church council. Before the Synod, the 39 books of the Old Testament was accepted as God's word.

5. Apocrypha—means "hidden books"

1. Fourteen religious and historical books of uncertain origin and authorship. They are rejected by most authorities. They primarily date from the first or second century B.C.
2. Seven of these books have been accepted into the Canon by the Roman Catholic church.
6. Pseudepigrapha—means false writings
1. These are documents falsely claimed to be authored by the apostles.
2. They are inaccurate historically and geographically, etc.
3. Their teachings contradict scripture.
4. They have been rejected by scholars from earliest times.
7. Does the Bible itself claim to be inspired by God?
1. "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God" (2 Timothy 3:16)
2. "Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God" (Romans 3:2)
3. "Not...the word of men but...actually...the Word of God" (1 Thessalonians 2:13)
4. "Holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" (1 Peter 1:21)
5. "The revelation came...by the Holy Spirit" (1 Corinthians 2:13)
6. "God spoke...through the prophets" (Hebrews 1:1)
(Throughout the Bible, the expression "thus saith the Lord" appears thousands of times.)
8. Biblical prophecies
1. Approximately a quarter of the Bible deals with prophecy.
2. Many prophecies were recorded hundreds of years prior to the event. For example, the prophet Micah proclaimed in Micah 5:2, "O Bethlehem, you are but a small Judean village, yet you will be the birthplace of my King who is alive from everlasting ages past!" This was written over 700 years before Jesus Christ was born in Bethlehem!
3. Prophecies concerned
a) individuals
b) cities
c) nations
d) Israel
e) the Messiah
f) future events, etc.
4. Approximately three-quarters of the recorded prophecies have been precisely fulfilled.
5. One quarter remain to be fulfilled.
6. Israel
a) No other nation can document its history in such astonishing detail.
b) Scores of Bible prophecies predict its scattering among the nations (70 to 1948 AD), persecution, re-gathering in Israel (Israel declared statehood on May 14, 1948), and future glory (during the millennium).
7. Messiah
a) There are more than 300 Old Testament prophecies predicting a coming Messiah.
b) These predictions were recorded hundreds of years prior to the arrival of Jesus Christ.
c) while 40 other "Messiahs" claimed the title, only Jesus fulfilled all of the prophecies.
d) The probability of only 48 of the 300 prophecies being fulfilled by pure chance is mathematically impossible.
9. Archaeology
1. "Archaeology has confirmed the history of the Old Testament" (William Albright)
2. "Archaeology has unquestionably strengthened confidence in the reliability of the Scriptural record." (Millar Burrows, Yale)
3. "The evidence of archaeology has been to establish the authority of the Old Testament." (Sir Frederic Kenyon)
4. The famous Dead Sea Scrolls refer to the Old Testaments as "prophets".
5. Archaeology supports 85 very specific Bible events.
6. No archaeological discovery has disproved Scripture.
10. Science
Although written in pre-science times, scientific references are accurate.
1. Seaworthiness of Noah's Ark.
2. Sphericity of the earth (Isaiah 40:22).
3. Earth hanging on nothing (Job 26:7).
4. Innumerable stars (Genesis 15:5).
5. Mountains and valleys in the sea (2 Samuel 22:16).
6. Paths or currents in the sea (Psalms 8:8).
7. Hydrologic cycle (Job 26:8).
8. Life is in the blood (Leviticus 17:11).
9. Rules of health and sanitation (Genesis 17:9).
10. Second law of thermodynamics—thing s tend toward randomness (Psalm 102:25-26).
11. History
1. Acclaimed Jewish historian Josephus, who lived in 100 AD and documented many first-century events, declared, "No one is so bold as to add, remove, or change anything in them (Old Testament). "We esteem those books to contain divine doctrines and would willingly die for them."
2. Historian Dr. Clark Pinnock states, "There exists no document from the ancient world so excellent a set of textual testimony and offering so superb an array of historical data...skepticism regarding the historical credentials of Christianity is based on an irrational anti-supernatural bias."
3. The Bible is supported by the testimony of ancient historians and bishops—Sophocles, Cicero, Virgil, Eusebius, Ignatius, Polycarp, Iraneus, Clement, et al.
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Old 22nd February 2005, 03:37   #322
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Graaaaah, you will burn in hell for resurrecting this thread!
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Old 22nd February 2005, 03:41   #323
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i have some things to say to contradict your "biblical science"

i am hungry though, can't concentrate

Ever noticed that people who believe in Creationism look really unevolved?
- Bill Hicks
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Old 22nd February 2005, 10:10   #324
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im for one am getting sick of all this christian love in.

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Old 22nd February 2005, 10:24   #325
Tiffany
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Quote:
Originally posted by CraigF
im for one am getting sick of all this christian love in.
o.O
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Old 22nd February 2005, 12:33   #326
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yes yes, im going to heck. germ has told me this many times.

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Old 22nd February 2005, 13:41   #327
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That wasn't what the face was for. =) I just had to read what you wrote a couple times. I just assumed you were typing it in a rush. =P

(I'm going there too.)
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Old 20th April 2005, 13:08   #328
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you are so long-winded its ridiculous, i couldnt finish reading. and alot of your logic is flawed.

take for example
Heaven: you choose god
Hell: you dont choose god

no, if you dont choose heaven, you also do not choose hell. wtf would people actively be choosing hell? its because they aren't.

and lemme guess youre from america? well guess what, other countries have large agnostic/athiestic groups...and heres the whopper, they have internet and they visit these forums. you created an account just to post in a thread that was off the first few pages? that never sits right with me.
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Old 20th April 2005, 13:21   #329
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I began to smell an ontological argument and had to stop reading.

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Old 20th April 2005, 14:40   #330
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I have to say I for one am glad this thread got bumped, in recent times, religion has become all the more important to me....







...I have found myself having to avoid it more and more recently in the media, and frankly, its starting to piss me off.

[queue religious retardation vs logical arguments]

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Old 20th April 2005, 15:27   #331
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Quote:
Originally posted by CraigF
[queue religious retardation vs logical arguments]
I've found recently in my studies that the problem has more to do with Western Logic vs Eastern logic, but put whatever spin you want to on it.


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Old 20th April 2005, 16:25   #332
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Sorry, there i was thinking that most of europe and america were considered western nations.

Yet strangely Europe tends to be quite happy to contain many agnostic/athiest people that are also quite happy to keep church seperate from state, and yet the American government has a different idea.

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Old 20th April 2005, 16:41   #333
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You can't group schools of logic by present geography.
(east-west points to original geography)

Hellenistic(greek)/atheist/agnostic thought has always been different than Judeo/Christian thought. Jews were from the continent of Asia. Abraham was a Persian.

There have been many attempts to merge the two, notably Gnosticism of the 2nd cent. and more recently American Fundamentalism.

Secondly, don't lump americans under one title.
Cetianly as an Englishman, you don't hold many of the same ideas as genocidal Serbians do you?


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Old 20th April 2005, 17:30   #334
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I didnt lump americans under one title, i lumped the american government under one title, which, cosidering the majority the republican party holds on the congress seats, wouldnt be a particularly inaccurate thing to do.

Prehaps what I did lump together was the republican party and christians.

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Old 20th April 2005, 19:46   #335
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visionoftruth, while it was actually fairly interesting to read your views, I honestly couldn't understand a lot of that post.

There is one thing that I could gleam from your post, though, which is your ... uninformed idea of how modern science views the Universe. You could read "A Brief History of Time", for a good (if simplified) overview.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 20th April 2005, 23:29   #336
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I FOUND GOD, I FOUND GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


He is here...

And here...

Ever noticed that people who believe in Creationism look really unevolved?
- Bill Hicks
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Old 21st April 2005, 10:51   #337
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If you are not here for "loopy" forum talk, then why did you exhale that huge post? Just felt you wanted to get something off your chest or did you actually want to have a conversation.

If you want to know why atheist "get so worked up" its because just like CraigF said, its all over the media nowadays. When you have your news anchors looking directly into the camera (to you) and saying "God Bless America" or when a guy wearing a plaid shirt tucked into his buckeled khakis giving you a pamplet titled "Have you found God? Join Jehovah's Witnesses" or when 1/4 of the radio stations blast Creed and other Christian bands, it tends to get on the nerves of someone who is a sane free thinking citizen of the free world. Not because they dislike Christianity but because they are monopolizing religious belief systems.

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Old 21st April 2005, 11:42   #338
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another media/christian link for you to peruse:

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southt...dex/20-ds3.htm

prehaps we should make this thread into a link du jour of these kind of things.

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Old 21st April 2005, 12:17   #339
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Quote:
Originally posted by bgesley
Not because they dislike Christianity but because they are monopolizing religious belief systems.
Not necessarily because they dislike Christianity...
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Old 21st April 2005, 15:18   #340
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Quote:
Originally posted by visionoftruth
Im not into the whole arguing about it thing when it comes to religion, I would just rather give my two cents which is my common sense as opposed to others common sense. I believe Atheism is flawed as Athiests believe creation is flawed either way a defense on ones belief system can make sense both ways its whats really true at the end of the day that really matters though.
Athiests don't "believe" that "creation is flawed". Most athiests think, based on solid reasoning, that there is no reason to believe in a god, the same way that you think that there is no invisible pink unicorns prancing in your garden.

It's quite different. Note that I am not an atheist, but I understand the position of one, about as much as I understand the position of the religious.

For the record, you could most closely call me an "apathetic agnostic" (ignostic).

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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Old 21st April 2005, 15:23   #341
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I don't know what religion I am lol.. when I did go to church it was a christian church and my family is christian but I don't NOT believe in god, but at the same time I find it hard to believe one exists...

So I'm neutral on the subject?

yeah, i'm back.
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Old 21st April 2005, 16:46   #342
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Sounds like you're agnostic, protegechris.

Freedom of speech is the basic freedom of humanity. When you've lost that, you've lost everything.
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