New To The Game (HELP)

[KillYourRadio12]

First of all I apologize because this is probably a post that happens entirely too frequently.

My partner and I have been doing podcasts but we've decided to move to internet radio for the main reason of having live guests. After shopping around we've decided to go with shoutcast as our provider.

At first glimpse I thought it was a simple download and install then start the program and go, but there is apparently a lot more to it than that. So here are my questions.

1) I don't understand why I would have to buy a license. We don't plan on (at the moment anyway) playing any copywritten music. Do I still need to get a license?

2) How many listeners can I have at once?

3) I read through the getting started guide and it seems hard to me with all the command line stuff. Is it rough to get everything set up?

4) When we do play music that is copywritten, where do we obtain this music? I'm sure we can't just download free music and use it. Do we have to purchase c.d.'s and rip them or is there like a catalog of music that we can pull from?

5) How successful have people been at selling ad-time and/or getting sponsors?

6) We plan on doing things on location. We already have some things lined up. Has anyone done anything of this nature?

Again, I apologize if these are all re-hashed questions, but I just wanted to ask them for myself. Thanks in advance!

[DrO]

i'll answer the few i definitely can (plus am pushed for time).

#1 - there are different types of licenses involved.

if you are doing an mp3 stream and use the official transcoder then you need to buy an unlock code for it. if using anything else then generally the mp3 encoding license is covered in the cost of that product.

the other type is royalty licensing which will vary based on the country you're based in, where your server(s) are based and the type of music and any other number of things which the licensing authorities think they can make people pay for. there are a number of recent threads about this sort of thing so i won't re-hash what has been said in them.

the general thing is if you want this to be public and legit then you need to have some form of licensing on your playback to (hopefully) avoid copyright grief down the line.

#2 - it completely depends on how your station will be setup and how much bandwidth you're going to have available be it from dedicated hosting or via a home network connection. also the bitrate of the stream will affect things as well as the actual hardware and OS being used to run the DNAS server on.

so it's not a simple you can have XX listeners without having a rough idea of some of the above details.

#3 - the current public build of the v2 DNAS is not as user-friendly to get going with as it could be and the documentation doesn't help that (as i set the intended level of the documentation too high which seems to have been a wrong assumption based on what i had been told before starting on it).

it will be easier whenever i get around to releasing a newer version but it's still some way from being ready. best thing is if having issues is to just ask.

#4 - it sort of comes back to #1 and the royalty handling though it depends on what you're wanting to play as usually you can play any file you've got as long as the royalties, etc are dealt with appropriately. there is free music available which can be used (though i've a feeling the licensing aspect won't see it that way) or you can do things to get direct permission from the copyright owner of the music wanting to be played.

-daz

[voodoohippie]

The easiest way to license your Shoutcast server in the USA and allow you to maybe make money streaming ads (many other licensing companies in the use does not allow this or if they do you'll pay a heavy price. But starting at $22.50/MO head to http://startinternetradio.tk and if you want to have a cheap shoutcast server go to http://1000slots.tk as you can have 1000 listener slots for just $19.95/Month on a dedicated Shoutcast server. Those who sign up for the server during the promotion are grandfathered because the usual price for say 100 listeners is $125/Month. So I'd suggest to get the server NOW.

Broadcasting software: I'd recommend SAM for the PC. The price is $300 but there is a payment plan available through the author's Web site http://spacialaudio.com

If you want to start a hobo Radio you could try a FREEware broadcast automation program called http://radiodj.ro and B.U.T.T for the encoder. B.U.T.T takes time to configure to your player so that the Artist/Title/Song is properly displayed to the listener but with a few tweaks you can usually get B.U.T.T running but you'll also need to use the Stereo Mix for the sound recording so that it pipes to B.U.T.T correctly.

I've not messed with Winamp's New DSP since Shoutcast V2 came out but their older DSP works better with version 1.98 which a lot of shoutcast hosts still use and still works without failure.

Hope this helps you get off the ground.

[DrO]

no one should be recommending anyone to use the v1 DSP. maybe with the early v2 DSP there were some connection issues for v1 based connections but those were resolved and the remaining v2 connection issues will be resolved in the next update.

also tone it back on the host pimping, i believe you've already been cautioned about it and looking back, most of your recent posts seem to just be mentioning a specific host.

-daz

[voodoohippie]

It has been my experience that most host are not using SC V2 just yet. SAM Broadcaster 4.9.6 is finally getting up to par for V2 at $300 but again most free broadcasting software has not yet taken full advantage of V2 that is all I'm saying. Yes at first I tried running a sc server from my house because I could not afford the monthly rate for a host. However after 6 listeners at 128K you'll quickly find that your bandwidth will be maxed and all sorts of problems will arise. But if you have a Business class subscription to your Internet Service Provider and about $250-300 Mo I suppose you can run your own V2 server and pony up another $300 for the latest version of SAM to handle V2.

I get V2 is suppose to be better, but maybe for us hobby est unless many cheap Shoutcast V2 host/streaming software comes out you still won't see many standard budget stations running it IMHO at least for another 5-10 yrs. Heck many are still running older Lenux or Windows XP OS's not to mention the players out there that still seem to play SC1 stations.

I get however how Shoutcast wants to compete with Icecast with multiple streams on one server. However I feel SC has a long haul if it wants to be more like Icecast.

[DrO]

Originally Posted by voodoohippie

It has been my experience that most host are not using SC V2 just yet. SAM Broadcaster 4.9.6 is finally getting up to par for V2 at $300 but again most free broadcasting software has not yet taken full advantage of V2 that is all I'm saying.

that doesn't mean people have to specifically use a v2 based source, v1 based sources are still supported and is why both sc_trans and dsp_sc in their v2 releases still provide the means to work with the v1 protocol. that nullifies the suggestion made to keep using the v1 DSP which is noticeably buggy in a number of areas (like not keep settings on newer Winamp + OS installs, etc) and is why i think it's irresponsible to recommend old and unsupported versions (irrespective of your other points including 3rd party broadcast tools).

-daz

[voodoohippie]

Agreed I remember V1 DSP doing that and also having some issues with AAC+. I do believe however Edcast can now support V2 as well. Edcast was mostly designed for Icecast but still allows Shoutcast and if I remember they have added V2 (have not messed with Edcast lately).

I'll be interested to see now the new DSP's for Winamp will hold up for the V1 servers as well as V2. Now that Sam Broadcaster has a lite version (and the lite version don't have an encoder that will do Shoutcast other than their proprietary host) it will be interesting to see if like the old DSP if you can still use it with 3rd party software as you could do with the older DSP. If so it could mean that broadcasters who are on a shoe string budget could still benefit by using the lite version of SAM through the DSP even though it only handles 5000 songs and you have to be actually clicking someing in the lite version or it goes off.

Changes are being made in Internet Radio that is for sure.

[DrO]

Originally Posted by voodoohippie

it will be interesting to see if like the old DSP if you can still use it with 3rd party software as you could do with the older DSP.

alas that's not possible as (you can blame me for it) i've made the v2 DSP more Winamp centric in it's level of Winamp integration so that it will do the best it can in it's primarily intended usage (it basically relies on specific 5.5+ apis to do things which the Winamp 2.x simulators people use do not replicate). yes that can be seen as being annoying and down right insane to do but the Source DSP was only ever intended for use in a Winamp setup (irrespective of people liking that or not).

-daz

[voodoohippie]

OK but what about sound enhancers like CompWide does that mean that it too will no longer work with SAM? I know the older CompWide will work with SAM. Well at least there are some folks (Like myself who save their old exe installers) I always preach to everyone to keep their old exe installers in case stuff like this happens or the companies go belly up and take down their older installers.

There are still good DSP's from days gone by like the ones made for Music Match Jukebox that will work in SAM for those who don't want to spend hrs working with the AGC like I did to get my station working right. I guess I'm old fashion if it works why break it? But at least those who are 100% Winamp broadcasters will benefit.

Could this mean a Winamp Broadcaster will be coming in the future? Now that would be the thing to do along with a DMCA compliant playlist generator. then of course it makes sense to make everything proprietary and incompatible with anything else. Boy has Winamp turned a different direction don't know if this is good.

[DrO]

Originally Posted by voodoohippie

OK but what about sound enhancers like CompWide does that mean that it too will no longer work with SAM? I know the older CompWide will work with SAM. Well at least there are some folks (Like myself who save their old exe installers) I always preach to everyone to keep their old exe installers in case stuff like this happens or the companies go belly up and take down their older installers.

what the Source DSP does has no bearing on what other DSP plug-ins do whether it's used in Winamp or SAM or anything else that provides hacks to re-use Winamp plug-ins. the Source DSP is foremost intended for use in Winamp and providing the best experience for that was why the Source DSP was made to only work on 5.5+.

obviously no one has to update to the newer versions but as has _always_ been the case with Winamp stuff, unless using the current versions then there is no official support for those versions. that is why i'm against people suggesting to others to use old and unsupported builds of the plug-in.

Originally Posted by voodoohippie

Could this mean a Winamp Broadcaster will be coming in the future? Now that would be the thing to do along with a DMCA compliant playlist generator. then of course it makes sense to make everything proprietary and incompatible with anything else. Boy has Winamp turned a different direction don't know if this is good.

not that i'm aware off. SHOUTcast has always been proprietary so i don't get what you're trying to get at. i am just trying to update / support the tools + YP (am not responsible for anything to do with site / api stuff) as best as is needed against what people are using and what they want (obviously within reason).

if you don't like that (as seems to be tone of your final sentence) then you don't have to use the tools or any of the service infrastructure. it's not like you've being forced to use it.

-daz

[voodoohippie]

Don't get me wrong I've always been happy with Shoutcast and Shoutcast has always been easier than Icecast though Icecast is very similar from what I can tell to Sc 2. Shoutcast has been the choice for yrs for broadcasting compared to Icecast. I know JetAudio made plugins for Icecast in the same way Nullsoft (which teamed up with AOL later and changed a lot of policies) makes plugins. I get too that some staff may be frustrated in how hosting companies made money using Nullsoft's back bone I get that too. And just like any other software I understand that if you don't update the company will eventually not support the older version. However server hosting companies are not going to be quick to ditch the DNAS their using for every client they have right away. I suppose soon the V1 stations will no longer be listed in the SC directory however all is not lost because you still have 3rd party station directories too which does a great job listing both Shoutcast and Icecast stations.

The fact too that SAM Broadcaster started to become more unstable with their issue of the SC V2 encoder made many folks stay at 4.74 or pre 4.80 versions till 4.91 and 4.96. Anyways I understand both sides and the gap between Shoutcast users and Icecast may be lessor in the future.

Best regards in further development.