Old 3rd June 2003, 18:59   #1
daven
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Winamp 2.92 beta found?!?

ok... I don't quite know the rules on posting stuff like this, i checked the forum rules and couldnt see anything about this, but something tells me that this might not be allowed, even though it isnt in the rules (or maby im going blind). so, if this isn't allowed, can a mod please delete it. thanks!

ok this site here

http://www.chinadz.net/icver//ic_inf...d=83418&path=1

is in chinese, however it appears to contain winamp 2.92 beta! using babelfish which is here:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr

i tried to translate sum of it. not very well... but i think i gathered that you need a user ID, so i managed to set one up. if anyone wants to use it, the username is dave"at"rebirthrecords.co.uk and the password is: ×÷ΪµÇ¼ (that's definitely a copy and paste job!)- and i think it stands for 'pass' but im not sure, i copied random characters off their site lol (cos my keyboard dusnt do chineese and i cant b arsed 2 fiddle round with character map etc...)

replace the "at" in the username with @ ; i put "at" so that my email address doesnt get picked up by evil bots...

to login you need to go 2 this page:

http://www.chinadz.net/icver//login.asp

then just put the username in the very top box, and the password in the one below that. then click the button. ignore the bottom two fields, i assume they're for password recollection.

right, so then you go back to the winamp292 page (see the link above). and then you have fun trying to work out how to download it.... any takers?

the best i could come up with (and i realy dont think this is very likely) is that its actualy just some kind of document, which needs adobe acrobat or winrar or winzip to view. the files got 2 b there sumwhere!!!!

once again, sorry if this kind of post is not allowed, please delete it if so!

dave

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Old 3rd June 2003, 19:02   #2
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ok i would do this as an edit, except i think it wil get too confusing. the password did not work when i pasted it in, so you can view it here

http://dave.rbnz.com/wapass.txt

its a notepad document encoded in unicode...

/edit ooooh! once you've logged in, i think it wil even tell you my IP address, so now you can all try and attack my computer haha

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Old 3rd June 2003, 19:39   #3
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nope. I'm no chinese but I think the archive is missing. I can download almost any other program from this site. you have to look for the download symbol, but on the winamp site, there isn't any.
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Old 3rd June 2003, 19:48   #4
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ahhh, lol i didnt think of trying other programs. i'm going to go and sulk and cry now :'(

I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory.
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Old 3rd June 2003, 20:06   #5
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Heh, not sure about that . 2.92 will be out soon enough, with many goodies.

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Old 3rd June 2003, 20:08   #6
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nooooooooooooooooooooo /me cant wait!!!! i spent about 3 hours decoding that stupid chineese crap...:@

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Old 3rd June 2003, 20:27   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Russ
Heh, not sure about that . 2.92 will be out soon enough, with many goodies.
easy to tell us if you have got the beta installed
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Old 3rd June 2003, 20:49   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by amano
I can download almost any other program from this site. you have to look for the download symbol
erm.... im really bad at this chineese thing, cos i cant find a download symbol on any of the other programs on that site.if i could then i'm sure i could find my way into the archive, but without seeing how its done normally I cant tell if its simply the archive broken, or the exe not present...

/EDIT
ok... i found sum programs which do hav a download symbol. i think, from the text which appears where the download symbol normally is, you have to be a paid user to download it. now while i am very tempted, im not confident enough in chinese to do it (!) and i dont trust babelfish with my credit card details! damn

ne1 got a paid account with them

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Old 3rd June 2003, 20:57   #9
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Who said anything about having the beta installed?

/me installs 2.92_Full as we speak

- `jars

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Old 3rd June 2003, 21:00   #10
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oooh dus that mean it'll be released on thursday publicly then? (i think thats wen the main server updates are?)

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Old 3rd June 2003, 21:01   #11
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No promises .

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Old 3rd June 2003, 21:05   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by jarsonic
Who said anything about having the beta installed?

/me installs 2.92_Full as we speak

- `jars
you are evil.

is there already a (unofficial) download link for it??

Last edited by amano; 3rd June 2003 at 21:34.
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Old 4th June 2003, 01:24   #13
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?!
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Old 4th June 2003, 03:09   #14
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daven so sorry but that link u gave is not winamp 2.92, it appears to be something related like shoutcast or something, but it is not.

In case ur wondering i don't understand chinese but i have friends who do.

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Old 4th June 2003, 16:39   #15
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lol! ok i saw winamp292 at the top so thought yay
o wel ...

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Old 5th June 2003, 01:48   #16
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All I really want is multiple playlists, thats all I care about. Any idea when this will be implimented into 2?

EDIT: I realize you can kind of do it with the Media Library, but I am talking about like the style of WA3.
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Old 5th June 2003, 03:04   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Munkaboo
EDIT: I realize you can kind of do it with the Media Library, but I am talking about like the style of WA3.
since winamp2.92 would support freeform skinning maybe it would support winamp3 playlist. but so far i feel it would not, due to skinning compatiability.

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Old 5th June 2003, 06:11   #18
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Sure do hope that the wait would bring in those free form skins... cause its the nth time I've downloaded the MMD3 in anticipation!

Also, since we neither know the time or day when its going to get to the forums (assuming it does reach the forums before it hits the front page), I've got to go through the main of checking out the Breaking News and the WA2 Discussion forums every hour or so ... and that from my dialup!

Happy Waiting
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Old 5th June 2003, 15:48   #19
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No. 2.92 will not include support for freeform skins in the default setup.
Freeform skin support plugin is still in early development stages and is only available to betatesters. Basically, it's the prototype for Winamp hybrid player. Whether it will make it into one of the 2.9x releases or not I can't say. Maybe Justin/Christophe will post it for people to experiment with? Again, I can't really say.

2.92 new features are:
CD Ripper in Media Library, native aac support, bug fixes & enhancements.

Even with freeform skin support, multiple playlists in the playlist window isn't supported. The playlist window portion of winamp.exe will need recoding, therefore the base skin will need updating accordingly and subsequently the entire skin database will need to follow suit. Unless some modification or workaround can be implemented, I don't know if it's possible...

Currently, even the ml (and other plugin windows) aren't skinned (because Winamp3 skins don't include support for them). So, as you can see, there's still a fair way to go before freeform skin support can be implemented into any Winamp public release.
However, the video window is supported, and looks rather neat with the extra play/pause/stop/etc buttons. Sorry, I'll stop there. I've already said too much
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Old 5th June 2003, 16:06   #20
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cd ripper...hmmm... is that any good? is it a viable alternative (feature, speed and sound quality wise [even though sound quality is probably based only on the codec?]?) arn't most people going to just keep using cdex?

/edit ooh and aac... has anyone come across any pages with comparison tests between aac and mp3 (running mp3 at decent levels i.e. lame@alt preset standard or vbr 128-320kbs)?

I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory.
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Old 5th June 2003, 16:37   #21
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nice infos though, djegg. hope 2.92 makes it today to the winamp servers. with fixed in_ogg.dll 1.34 and fixed "shuffle 1st song" bug.

let us see. I'd sure like to see experimental WA3 skin support just to play with it. and I would even be happy with just the main menu being skinned and all the other windows having a similar colour.

I alread saw a picture in the mp4 thread in the General Discussion that even the thinger will be faked by the new skin support. currently with only 3 items available.

and I wonder if there will be only aac streaming available, or even general aac support (in containers etc) or even aac encoding.

@daven
aac is perhaps transparent on 160+ kbit (therefore better than mp3 with 190kbit+) and behaves extremely better at very low bitrates (here it is close to ogg, wma and mp3pro).
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Old 5th June 2003, 16:49   #22
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ahhh, so i wouldn't want to use it for extremely high quality mp3s? or does it go further up than 160 (say to 192), and with better results than mp3?

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Old 5th June 2003, 16:55   #23
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I wouldn't rely on the AAC codec that 2.92 uses - free AAC codecs aren't stunning for high bitrates yet, so MP3 or Vorbis is probably a better bet (2.92 also has MP3 and vorbis ripping capability).

in_ogg.dll remains at 1.33 because 1.34 is broken. Hopefully someone will replace PP and we'll have some updates soon.

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Old 5th June 2003, 16:57   #24
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So 1.34 is Not going to be included with 2.92 after all? Cristoph(sp?) mentioned it will be in...

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Old 5th June 2003, 17:00   #25
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I seem to remember reading that it was broken in some way. The RC version that I have has 1.33 in.

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Old 5th June 2003, 17:01   #26
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Think you could have a word with him regarding this and let us know what's the final word about it?

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Old 5th June 2003, 19:08   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Russ
free AAC codecs aren't stunning for high bitrates yet
what free aac codecs? there aren't any, fraunhofer/dolby/etc. want license fees for it

there are demo versions of commercial programs and illegal encoders (in binary form that is), maybe itunes on macs has licensed aac encoding for free?

qicktime and winamp (2.92 beta) are free decoders but don't support all aac "substandards", faad is not free because nobody payed a license for it
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Old 5th June 2003, 19:08   #28
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in_vorbis 1.34 is broken? In what way?
Christophe only posted it yesterday, and all reports so far show it's ok.
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=132462
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Old 5th June 2003, 19:11   #29
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I hope one of the 'enhancements' for 2.92 includes alt-click queueing on the playlist. It's the one thing I keep checking new Winamp releases for.

Personally (and I suspect for a lot of other people too), that would be far more useful than CD ripping capabilities. Most people have already got their own ways of ripping. Myself, I use Exact Audio Copy + Lame 3.90 for MP3s, and won't ever consider using anything else. I hope it's not being put it just for the sake of looking good on a list of features...
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Old 5th June 2003, 20:12   #30
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If you don't want the CD Ripper, don't install it.
Sure, I've been using CDex for years now, but I've been trying out 2.92 ripper and, from what I can tell so far, it does just as a good a job. Those that want to use it will use it, those that don't won't.

Winamp3 style alt-click enqueue/dequeue feature is not implemented.
Yes, I agree it would be nice.
Maybe it can be implemented when freeform skinning is fully ready and compatible?
afaik, it can't be implemented with the standard 2.x skin engine.
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Old 5th June 2003, 21:04   #31
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@daven: no AAC isn't limited to 160 kbit/s. you can go up further, but you won't have reasons to. it is as transparent at this bitrate like --aps is for mp3. transparent means you can't distinguish between the lossy sample and the original.

(the exception are problem samples)

EDIT:
/me too would like to know from russ, why 1.34 is broken. as you can see in the bug list 1.33 and 1.33a are extremely broken. and 1.34 is for separate download already and behaves well (at least for me and LIDER). don't know why it should be broken.

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Old 5th June 2003, 21:10   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Russ
I seem to remember reading that it was broken in some way. The RC version that I have has 1.33 in.
Sorry, I was wrong. Don't mind me I'm only stressed out and ill and have exams.

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Old 5th June 2003, 21:16   #33
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It's a big shame that AAC is being pushed when there's much better free alternatives out there. MPC is by far the best and produces transparency at 140 - 190kbit (depending on the song). I'm not impressed by OGG either, it's good that it's free but it's not as good as VBR/ABR MP3.

Also, for CD ripping, the best tool is EAC (which is free). EAC uses c2 error detection to ensure you get the best quality rips.
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Old 5th June 2003, 21:21   #34
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depends on the bitrate: at lower bitrates mpc will be outperformed by many codecs such as aac, ogg, wma, mp3pro...

and due to the legal situation chances are that you will never see a compatible hardware device in a lifetime. so why push mpc MR. Satan.

if you want to stick with your pentium, choose lossless (just for the warm fuzzy feeling and to fill your 60 gb HD).

EDIT: and for ripping:
Winamp is free as well and you don't know what techniques it uses and how it performs.
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Old 5th June 2003, 21:21   #35
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AAC is being introduced because AOL are using it in their new streaming technology, apparently it came out with better quality/bitrate on the low end.

Current free AAC codecs aren't much good at bitrates >128 - you'd be much better off with some of the other codecs.

I think Vorbis is at least as good as VBR MP3 at equivalent bitrates, and in many cases better. However, musepack is certainly better .

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Old 5th June 2003, 21:35   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by amano
depends on the bitrate: at lower bitrates mpc will be outperformed by many codecs such as aac, ogg, wma, mp3pro...
Very true. At low bitrates aac, ogg, wma and mp3pro sound turd, and MPC sounds turder. But I'd rather not have turd at all. At transparency, MPC performs best. If I was encoding vocals for internet streaming I'd use OGG, WMA or a Realplayer format because transparency wouldn't be an issue. I have MPC files that are transparent at 109kbit, but these are quiet songs with minimal percussion.

Quote:
and due to the legal situation chances are that you will never see a compatible hardware device in a lifetime. so why push mpc MR. Satan.
Well, the hardware device I'm using to write this post is very compatable with MPC and that's all I intend to use it on. All free audio formats have less financial backing than ones supported by Microsoft, AOL etc. OGG suffers in the same way. And that's DR to you! :P

Quote:
if you want to stick with your pentium, choose lossless (just for the warm fuzzy feeling and to fill your 60 gb HD).
Why have lossless when you can have transparency. If I can't hear the difference, what's the point?

Quote:
EDIT: and for ripping:
Winamp is free as well and you don't know what techniques it uses and how it performs.
If you'd ever seen EAC and it's option set you'd understand. I'll be very surprised if they'd incorporated such techniques into winamp. Most of it would confuse standard users as a familiarity with your CD hardware and compression software is required to use EAC properly.
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Old 5th June 2003, 21:50   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dr Satan
...when there's much better free alternatives out there. MPC is by far the best...
mpc is not free yet

there are still some countries where some mp2 patents are still valid

Russ: please show me your free aac codecs

i know codecs based on fhg's professional and fast encoder, the one modified by dolby, the nero/psytel encoder and faac

aac isn't that good at low bitrates (http://ff123.net/64test/results.html), it might get better with sbr in the future

edit: correction

Last edited by Lion King; 5th June 2003 at 22:10.
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Old 5th June 2003, 22:24   #38
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@ DJ Egg

Thank you very much for the Winamp 2.92 infos
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Old 5th June 2003, 22:31   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Egg
Winamp3 style alt-click enqueue/dequeue feature is not implemented.
Yes, I agree it would be nice.
Maybe it can be implemented when freeform skinning is fully ready and compatible?
afaik, it can't be implemented with the standard 2.x skin engine.
That's a shame, but to be fair, I thought it would be a trivial thing to add compared to CD ripping and video playback... I didn't think it would be need a new/modified skin engine to implement. Thanks for the info.
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Old 5th June 2003, 23:39   #40
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Ripping support is built into the Media Library, but the encoders are separate plug-ins. It doesn't add much extra to the library either. Ogg Vorbis is included by default, plus WAV. MP3 is available to the best testers, but as a separate download. AAC was removed.

I still plan to use CDex and EAC for ripping too, but it is nice to have in Winamp.

If you want MPC encoding support Winamp 2.92 appears to use the NSV Codec SDK for its encoding plug-ins.

Personally, I think Alt-Click in the PL could be implemented without affecting the skinning standard. Though an additional line could be added to control the color of the number.

Also, a crap load of in_nsv fixes. The video windows supports drag and drop. AVS fixes. CDDB fixes. Video Overlay fixes. Besides AAC and ripping this is mostly a bug fix release.
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