Which Audio Format Works Best?

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by lostinsound

Thanks for all the info. Admittedly I haven't dug into the details of how the tags are actually being written, I've just been going by what I see in mp3tag.

I basically have two columns in mp3tag, one with the value %ALBUMARTIST% and another with the value %ALBUM ARTIST%. For my mp3s, the %ALBUMARTIST% column shows the album artist and the %ALBUM ARITIST% column is empty, and vice versa for flac files. I have it like that because those are the tags that Winamp writes to by default for each file type according to mp3tag. I wasn't aware you could have a single column that could show different tags depending on the file type.

For now, the way I have it is good enough for me. Maybe one day I'll delve into this in more detail, but right now I have everything organized how I want it and don't want to spend too much time with this. Thanks again for this description though. It makes things a little clearer as to why Winamp writes tags the way it does.

well, whatever works for you is fine, and i can't be more clear unfortunately b/c i don't have my proper mp3tag install in front of me to reference. but just fyi, in mp3tag under tools > options look for "mapping" and what you want to do, is map the source to the target, so i believe in this case that would mean mapping ALBUMARTIST to ALBUM ARTIST for vorbis.

but the other point you should take away from this, is that regardless of how any given program references "album artist" in itself, be it with or without a space, or even some other name, (older apps call it BAND for instance), in id3 the actual frame it is will ALWAYS be TPE2. so if winamp calls it "Album Artist" and mp3tag calls it %albumartist% the actual location in the id3 is still gonna be TPE2 regardless.

vorbis is different b/c its whatever the user says, (wysiwyg). so most programs will see both ALBUMARTIST and ALBUM ARTIST as valid to read, but will only WRITE to one of them, and prefer that one if both are present. i do what i think winamp does if a FLAC has no tags and you write them, which i believe is with the space.

so anyway, i have one column where i can sort my whole collection by AA by mapping the vorbis AA to the id3 AA. i then still have a far right column, for any vorbis no space AA stragglers, so i can delete them.

[MrSinatra]

this mp3tag chart might make things more clear:

http://help.mp3tag.de/main_tags.html

the lefthand column is basically the wyiswyg "vorbis" names for those fields.

and this:

http://help.mp3tag.de/main_mapping.html

[Aminifu]

In my research of the universe of digital music players and taggers available, I've found the cross-matching of different tagging formats to be inconsistent. To reduce issues, restrict yourself to a small group of players and taggers that cross-match tags consistently between them. Of course for me, I start with WA and chose support apps that work well with it.

If you are new to lossless digital music formats, I suggest you use wavpack because it uses the same tagging format that mp3s use (ID3) which you are probably familiar with. WA provides a plug-in that lets you use wavpack files and apply replay gain to them. But WA does not provide tools for creating wavpack files, you will have to get those from the internet. Wavpack is supported on a small number of portable players.

If you already have or want to use the flac format there is no reason to change, except that flac uses the vorbis tagging format. WA provides all that's necessary to make, play, and apply replay gain to flac files. Flac is supported on a large number of portable players.

For historic reasons WA's user interface is more geared to presenting ID3 tags. WA's support of other types of tags (vorbis and ape) is constantly improving.

So, if you're new (or not) to lossless formats, there are two excellent choices (especially for desktop systems). There is some learning curve (not hard) involved with either one. With wavpack, you will have to learn the tools needed to create them. With flac, you will have to learn how WA handles their tags.

With the huge, inexpensive, amounts of storage space now available there is no reason not to benefit from the better music quality of lossless digital formats.

[MrSinatra]

my advice:

lossy = mp3 = id3v2.3 only

lossless = flac = vorbis only

i have np having complete harmony between the two types of formats and tagging in winamp.

over at slim, the overwhelming consensus among forum goers is that vorbis is better than id3, and i don't know of anyone over there that uses lossless and id3 together, with the one exception of those who do audio editing professionally hacking their normal wav files to do id3.

i should also correct a minor thing i said above, which is that in id3, it is POSSIBLE to have a TXXX ALBUMARTIST or TXXX ALBUM ARTIST frame, but you usually only see those if you create and maintain those custom frames yourself. almost every app, big and small, of any importance whatsoever, now uses TPE2 by default for "album artist" in id3.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

i have np having complete harmony between the two types of formats and tagging in winamp.

over at slim, the overwhelming consensus among forum goers is that vorbis is better than id3, and i don't know of anyone over there that uses lossless and id3 together, with the one exception of those who do audio editing professionally hacking their normal wav files to do id3.

Those fairly new to PC computers or are otherwise inexperienced have a reasonable right to expect consistency. Old hands know better. They know that different formats will present the same basic info in slightly different ways.

Most differences in the way id3 and vorbis tags present info are very minor and the naming of tags between them presents only a few cross-matching issues. But they are differences and therefore noticeable. Some users who are familiar with the id3 presentation may not want to deal with the minor vorbis differences. Wavpack gives them that option. Technical superiority between tagging formats is less of an issue for those who just want a consistent presentation.

I remember you saying you had not heard of wavpack before I mentioned it. Do you know if those over at slim have heard of it? Maybe they should be told there may be a 'new kid in town'. Not for them to change their ways, but to be aware of the possible competition.

Wavpack can not beat flac on other technical fronts. Best it can do is match. I assume its devs chose id3 tags as a way to differentiate the two lossless formats and present those familiar with mp3s a seamless way to handle and show tag info.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

.. , with the one exception of those who do audio editing professionally hacking their normal wav files to do id3.

The above comment is interesting. Have any of them given a reason for hacking in id3 when they could use any tagging format available? If not, why do you suppose they do it?

[Mosquitozzz]

So, Aminifu, after all, which Audio Format (codec) u find the best
1) by "quality" of playing sound
2) by "tolerance" betwen "quality" of playing sound and size of a file?

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by Mosquitozzz

So, Aminifu, after all, which Audio Format (codec) u find the best
1) by "quality" of playing sound
2) by "tolerance" betwen "quality" of playing sound and size of a file?

1 & 2) for lossy - mp3, for lossless flac and wavpack are equal. I will use wavpack because it uses the same tagging standard as mp3. ID3 is what I'm used to and comfortable with. I suggest you look at posts 41 through 52.

[Aminifu]

I came across the following articles related to this thread. Wavpack is not discussed but the info presented does seem accurate, imo.

http://www.howtogeek.com/142174/what...y-to-lossless/

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/40465...audio-formats/

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by Aminifu

The above comment is interesting. Have any of them given a reason for hacking in id3 when they could use any tagging format available? If not, why do you suppose they do it?

wav is what they want to maintain b/c any audio editing is done in wav, and so there is no need / time wasted in going in and out of a format other than wav.

the problem is wav supports only very rudimentary tags, and that support is not universal or well implemented. so they take an id3 and hack it into the wav, so they can stay in wav and yet also maintain a tagged collection. (meaning not a personal one, but a professional one)

not something I would do or advise others to do, but then again its mostly just industry people doing it.