Old 5th January 2005, 13:28   #1
rockouthippie
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Duh! ON2 and the VP6 codec.

Asleep at the wheel is ON2 technologies. My most recent conversation with them is over using their Vp6.2 codec with Nullsoft TV.

I was told the license was $129. How do I pay it?. Unknown. Will the VP6 decoder codecs be available in future versions of Winamp?. Unknown.

I am very impressed with the new VP6.2 encoding "plug-in" for NSV. It is pretty, but will it be supported with ON2's withdrawal of their codec pack.... FREE for personal use.

The $129 seems steep, but frankly, re-encoding hundreds of hours of video is more expensive.

When the monkey flips the switch, for $129, it would be good if the lights come ON TOO. (Pun intended).
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Old 5th January 2005, 15:35   #2
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would any one tell me what's the requirement for the current vp6.2 nsv files being broadcasted? to continue broadcasting, a license fee needs to be paid?

how about vp6.1? still free?

any msgs are appreciated.

-jingxin
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Old 5th January 2005, 17:48   #3
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ON2 really dropped the ball when they released VP6. Instead of marketing their product here, they snubbed the NSV community and declined to provide any attempt at support.

Only now do they seem to have come to their senses and attempt to provide support within the NSV community.

Their latest press release laudes their support of the NSV community.

Too little - Too late.

In regards to licensing requirements, I would suggest getting that information direct from ON2.

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Old 5th January 2005, 18:13   #4
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Ken bought the licence for $99, you can ask him how he paid them. Don't tell them it's for streaming, because that's some RTSP codec I'm thinking. You want the VFW codec, and just say that. Why would they need to know anything else?

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Old 5th January 2005, 19:21   #5
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RTSP (Real Time Streaming Protocol) is a media protocol, not a media codec.

RTSP serves as a control protocol, and as a jumping off point for negotiating transports, such as RTP, multicast and unicast, and negotiating codecs off of servers in a file format independent way.

www.rtsp.org

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Old 5th January 2005, 20:56   #6
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explain to me the difference between the vp6 streaming codec and the vp6 vfw codec.

i know what rtsp is and their streaming codec probably works better with the rtsp protocol, is what i am saying

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Old 5th January 2005, 22:44   #7
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hmm ... I just read through the license agreement for vp6 nsv plugin:
http://on2.com/duckutils/duck_license.php3?class=nsv

since I just set up shoutcast server for personal interest without any commercial purpose, I think I am fine with current status.
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Old 5th January 2005, 23:02   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by jingxin
hmm ... I just read through the license agreement for vp6 nsv plugin:
http://on2.com/duckutils/duck_license.php3?class=nsv

since I just set up shoutcast server for personal interest without any commercial purpose, I think I am fine with current status.
I might be too optimistic ...
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Old 6th January 2005, 01:09   #9
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Basically, I am told that the NSV license is a separate license from the VP6 codec. From their EULA, it looks like any web that draws any revenue would require the commercial license. The $99 VFW license is different from the NSV license.

The NSV license is specifically for use with Winamp only. It doesn't look to me like the VFW license covers NSV, nor does the NSV license grant use for making AVI's for windows. To make and publish both looks like $228 to me.

When I originally contacted ON2 a few months ago, they wanted $500. It looks like they have recanted that outrageous number. I am concerned that they have withdrawn the codec for personal use. Especially, if you wanted to use this codec with Windows Media Player. WMP won't automatically download this codec, so you'd have to get it from somewhere.

I am impressed with the VP6.2 codec for NSV, but am a little concerned about the wavering of ON2's policy. I have been assured that VP6 will remain a part of Winamp 5 by ON2, but can I be assured that this will always be Winamp's policy?.
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Old 6th January 2005, 01:17   #10
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because that is something up to Winamp. How can On2 possibly give you guarantees on a product they don't own nor control?

If you want to do this without worrying about licenses use the included VP3.
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Old 6th January 2005, 02:09   #11
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On2 could give you gurantees that as long as Null OnLine allows vp6 to work inside the winamp product, that your licence would remain valid. Asin, as long as winamp works with vp6, your vp6 licence works with winamp. That make any sense?

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Old 6th January 2005, 03:29   #12
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Before the end of this calendar year ON2 plans on rolling out the more advanced VP7 video codec.

Will ON2 continue to support a legacy codec after the release of VP7 ? (They have removed the downloads for the VP4, VP6.0 and VP6.1 codecs.)

Best business practice would be to have users upgrade to the new VP7 codec. However, will Winamp incorporate the new VP7 codec?

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Old 6th January 2005, 03:34   #13
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the fact of the matter is, who cares? winamp supports mp2, but does anyone encode to it? only amazon.com it seems. just because 'vp6 may become outdated', well thats like "why buy a 3.0 ghz processor now, when you could buy a 4.0 ghz in a year?", and when you get there, saying "ah well the 5.0 ghz will be coming soon so i'll wait for that one". the cycle will continue.

so what's wrong with getting a lifetime license for vp6? Just because they won't be selling it, doesn't invalidate your license (i dont think) so what's the prob? Winamp will still support vp6. If it doesn't, you can take the dll out of an older version and make it available on your website, and i mean the decoder dll, which is legal to use in winamp as aol has that license, so if you give a winamp decoder dll you'll stay fine.

you are inventing future problems which may or may not happen. What if they made vp6 open source because they now have vp7 out? I wouldn't care much, but it would be nice for everyone else. So, I may have spent my 99$ (tip: I havent yet) on a vp6 license and it became free later, big whoop, as long as it wasn't the next DAY then i would be fine with it.

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Old 6th January 2005, 03:52   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by sankt
Before the end of this calendar year ON2 plans on rolling out the more advanced VP7 video codec.

Will ON2 continue to support a legacy codec after the release of VP7 ? (They have removed the downloads for the VP4, VP6.0 and VP6.1 codecs.)

Best business practice would be to have users upgrade to the new VP7 codec. However, will Winamp incorporate the new VP7 codec?
vp4:
http://www.on2.com/vp4.php3

vp60 and vp61:
sankt You misunderstand vfw package, single dll contains few profiles ALL vp6* is in one file (because they are all similar)

2 rockouthippie:
my understand buy vfw license and use their or mine vfw wrapper, because there won't exist as product nsv encoder ( i meant single file with vp6 encoder statically linked)
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Old 6th January 2005, 09:12   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by slavas
vp4:
2 rockouthippie:
my understand buy vfw license and use their or mine vfw wrapper, because there won't exist as product nsv encoder ( i meant single file with vp6 encoder statically linked)
I'm not sure I quite understand what you are saying here. The license for this product, the NSV encoder plug-in for NSVenc is below.

http://on2.com/nsv_plugin.php3

ON2 quoted me $129 for commercial use of this software. That it different and separate from the VFW license, which is available from their online store for $99.
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Old 6th January 2005, 11:36   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by rockouthippie
I'm not sure I quite understand what you are saying here. The license for this product, the NSV encoder plug-in for NSVenc is below.

http://on2.com/nsv_plugin.php3

ON2 quoted me $129 for commercial use of this software. That it different and separate from the VFW license, which is available from their online store for $99.
haha so seems they charge additional $30 for simple nsv sdk based encoder plugin, in beginning it even wasn't able to mark keyframes, mine too but i had no information like this http://www.stud.ktu.lt/~vitslav/nsv/txt/vp6x.txt
.later i told them to fix it
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Old 9th January 2005, 05:47   #17
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Actually, as I read their EULA, they want $99 AND $129 to use AVI's and NSV, respectively, for "commercial" use. I think I'm sticking with VP3 for the time being.
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Old 9th January 2005, 16:47   #18
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I think after a few months, the bandwidth savings from using less bandwidth to produce a same quality image would add up to more than $129.

This is just my opinion though.

Originally posted by yeshuawatso :
...get Nullsoft to [accept] new moderators? ... election? ... If Inedible Bulk is the candidate, then I give my vote.
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Old 9th January 2005, 19:46   #19
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i think that it will make no difference to your ratings. So why waste the money for a little bit of a quality increase?

This is just my opinion though.
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Old 11th January 2005, 09:07   #20
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Well, it was more the bandwidth savings I was looking at. I mean bandwidth is expensive. I figure that I could use a third less bandwidth, that translates to about 15 more slots, that would look as good or better.

Unfortunately, this codec doesn't seem to be as stable as VP3, so I think this is gonna be a "pass" for now. I haven't still been able to make 6.2 and NSVCAP work with either of my capture cards.
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Old 12th January 2005, 16:32   #21
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http://on2.com/nsv_plugin.php3

seems to be down, anyone have the installer stashed away for this? seems mine is mia at the moment.

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Old 12th January 2005, 20:39   #22
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It was down the other day for a while and then came back. My guess?. Bad hosting.
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Old 19th January 2005, 09:55   #23
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Hi everyone:
Quote:
Originally posted by Inedible Bulk
I think after a few months, the bandwidth savings from using less bandwidth to produce a same quality image would add up to more than $129.
That's pretty much my thought too.

Which is EXACTLY why I'm now using pretty much the same exact settings Kevin does for WebRanger TV, only difference is I'm using VP6.1 instead of the older VP3 codec.

The end result is an average bitrate range of 160-165 Kbps. as opposed to the 230-240 Kbps. you see on WebRanger TV.

Doesn't change the number of simultaneous viewers I can have with the 256K upstream on my cable Internet service, but it WILL make the picture look a whole lot sharper than it was last year for the one viewer (and those who tune in via P2P) out there who WILL be able to tune in.

My TV station is currently offline (except for the website of course) while I re-encode all my videos using the new settings (I've learned that having it online slows down, and sometimes COMPLETELY STOPS, the encoding process, depending on the source video of course), but when it DOES return, it will return with a sharper and MUCH more improved look.
Quote:
This is just my opinion though.


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Old 20th May 2005, 08:26   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by jingxin
would any one tell me what's the requirement for the current vp6.2 nsv files being broadcasted? to continue broadcasting,-jingxin
VP6.2 (http://www.on2.com/nsv_plugin.php3)works like a charm with SouthCast 1.9.5 and with NSVTools (0.2 NSVCAP).
Do you happend to know are there ActiveX component for viewing VP6.2 Streams?
Look (http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....hreadid=160100)

VP6/MP3 does not work. Component says "Codec(s) not found"
Thankx!
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Old 20th May 2005, 10:35   #25
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There are no ActiveX components for VP 6.2.

VP3, VP5 and VP6.1 are the only video codecs supported.

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Old 26th May 2005, 15:19   #26
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Anybody know where I can get the VP5 codec for VFW, or NSV? Searched the net, and can't find the bugger.

Found VP4, and still trying to make an NSV coder and decoder for it, and failing miserably.
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Old 26th May 2005, 20:42   #27
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"Everyone knows ......"

Yeah, right, I'd accomplish my quest, slay the dragon, conquer the dark knights, but the princess would stab me in he back.

Or at very least, I'd end up making dinner for the princess and two of her lesbian friends (butch and butch) and spend another delightful evening of man bashing over a glass of smoky merlot that I bought.

Why do you think knights went on the crusades?. They didn't have a garage to hide in. They did not go deaf running power tools.

Where was that dragon?.

:-)
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Old 26th May 2005, 20:46   #28
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Quote:
Anybody know where I can get the VP5 codec for VFW, or NSV?
VP5 is a hardware based encoding method. There is no download available.

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Old 26th May 2005, 21:13   #29
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Is, yeah I know I'm dreaming, the hardware available?.
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Old 26th May 2005, 23:02   #30
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nahh sankt is wrong iirc vp5 simply had usb-key protection
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