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Old 21st September 2013, 22:50   #1
dstudd
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[SPLIT] Discussion and complaints about the 5.7 beta expiration

Winamp v5.7 βeta 13 Build 3444 has expired, without an update... yet.
Perhaps making a 'warning nag' instead of simply throwing us out to the download page may be worth considering.
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Old 21st September 2013, 22:57   #2
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there'll be some form of update in a few days as other things have gotten in the way which means we've not had enough to warrant an update at the moment. plus i've a few non-Cloud changes to finish fixing so a delay of a few days shouldn't be too much of an issue.


and i did it like how it does to just abort loading so people don't just ignore it and keep using old builds. plus i got fed up very quickly of having to try to keep contacting people to update to newer final / beta versions from the crash reports we'd been receiving (as that was wasting too much of my time with getting crash reports from the first few builds still for issues which had already been fixed).

so i had considered the way you mentioned but it just wasn't going to do what i need i.e. keeping people on a current beta / final build as applicable.
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Old 21st September 2013, 23:07   #3
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there'll be some form of update in a few days as other things have gotten in the way which means we've not had enough to warrant an update at the moment. plus i've a few non-Cloud changes to finish fixing so a delay of a few days shouldn't be too much of an issue.


and i did it like how it does to just abort loading so people don't just ignore it and keep using old builds. plus i got fed up very quickly of having to try to keep contacting people to update to newer final / beta versions from the crash reports we'd been receiving (as that was wasting too much of my time with getting crash reports from the first few builds still for issues which had already been fixed).

so i had considered the way you mentioned but it just wasn't going to do what i need i.e. keeping people on a current beta / final build as applicable.
Hi DrO,

I understand what you've done and why, I basically would like to know if there is any way of continuing to use the current βeta Release (v5.7) until an update is posted, without reverting back to v5.65 in the mean time?
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Old 21st September 2013, 23:14   #4
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I understand what you've done and why, I basically would like to know if there is any way of continuing to use the current βeta Release (v5.7) until an update is posted, without reverting back to v5.65 in the mean time?
not that i can safely suggest doing due to some variations in internal APIs being used between the last 5.7 build and 5.65 which need to be present otherwise there's a fair chance things may crash.
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Old 21st September 2013, 23:21   #5
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not that i can safely suggest doing due to some variations in internal APIs being used between the last 5.7 build and 5.65 which need to be present otherwise there's a fair chance things may crash.
No Problem. I shall learn to be patient.
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Old 21st September 2013, 23:58   #6
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Maybe it sounds dumb, but what shall i do when the beta version expires and there is no new one? Back to the normal version? Re-Install doesn't work.. Oo
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Old 22nd September 2013, 00:43   #7
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Maybe it sounds dumb, but what shall i do when the beta version expires and there is no new one? Back to the normal version? Re-Install doesn't work.. Oo
Not really dumb, but I simply change the computer clock time to yesterday, then open Winamp. While waiting for the new version.
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Old 22nd September 2013, 01:37   #8
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Maybe it sounds dumb, but what shall i do when the beta version expires and there is no new one? Back to the normal version? Re-Install doesn't work.. Oo
You could try turning your Date (Calendar) back for a couple of days... It works for me!
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Old 22nd September 2013, 04:27   #9
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Yeah.. Mine just expired and now I can't listen to my music..

You guys should make it only expire if there is a new beta available.

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Old 22nd September 2013, 05:43   #10
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bdwaaa kasjdkas djhkdjsa... same here...
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Old 22nd September 2013, 07:25   #11
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I just set the date back a week on my PC, started Winamp, then set the date back to today.
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Old 22nd September 2013, 09:29   #12
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@Chris000001: Thanks for posting that workaround. I didn't fancy going round and removing all my copies of Winamp.
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Old 22nd September 2013, 11:21   #13
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"dstudd" (Junior Member)
-QUESTION-
Winamp v5.7 βeta 13 Build 3444 has expired, without an update... yet.
Perhaps making a 'warning nag' instead of simply throwing us out to the download page may be worth considering.


"DrO" (Winamp / SHOUTcast Team)
-ANSWER-
so i had considered the way you mentioned but it just wasn't going to do what i need i.e. keeping people on a current beta / final build as applicable.

Outstanding judgement and anticipation "DrO" and TEAM......
MAYBE IF YOU GOT THE BETA TO AUTO CHECK FOR UPDATES BEFORE KILLING ITSELF, THEN NOTIFY USER.
or something else user friendly.

On the good side i have noticed that "winamp beta" no longer incessantly crashes windows!
It just sits there on the the desktop doing nothing! Remarkable!
So we are relegated to the ranks of the lowly normal users

"DarkForth I told you being a beta tester would get you in trouble"
"Yes your Omnipotence but it means i am at the bleeding, cutting edge of Development"

That must be because i have disabled everything else that was vaguely good that made it different from other run of the mill media players..... dsp, vis, skins,....

My Gawd That Ass looks Goood!
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Old 22nd September 2013, 12:13   #14
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Sorry folks....due to unforeseen circumstances... we'll get a new build out asap, hopefully within the next few days...
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Old 22nd September 2013, 14:48   #15
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Thought I'd try out the latest beta on Windows 7 yesterday but today I booted up and it expired. Got to have Winamp so I'm back to the latest release for now.

On a previous post I had mentioned a problem in Win7 for me that involves using Winamp with the classic theme where it freezes up after attempting to time seek back or forward when using the Direct Show plugin and third party codecs like ffdshow for videos. Apparently it's related to hardware acceleration that's off with the classic theme. Tried tweaking every setting under the sun to no avail.

A workaround is to check the option to show Winamp in the Notification area when playing videos so it'll minimize to the system tray. Sometimes I'll run videos then surf while listening. The problem only occurs when it's minimized to the taskbar then maximized. Doesn't do it in Win XP but then hardware acceleration isn't off with the classic theme.

Edit: the graphics card is an AMD 4000 series and there's 2 gigs ram. If anyone can reproduce the bug please post it because it's practically impossible to use Winamp for videos with direct show on Windows 7 so I mostly go with VLC. The only other option is switching to aero theme, and that's not much of an option.

Last edited by zepper; 22nd September 2013 at 16:26.
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Old 22nd September 2013, 18:02   #16
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betas expire as has been explained why and why there isxno opt out as stated early on. if you don't like how it does that then just use the non beta version or what ever you want to do to mess with your system.

I'll solve the beta expiration - we just won't provide them anymore and that way they won't expire and then no one gets to blame me again for trying to what was saving me time to work on fixing actual crashes than wasting time telling people to update from 6yr old beta builds as I still have to do because they never expired.

and checking online isn't an option when too many people despise Winamp for its existing check for updates option so basing on what people tend to do, that is why it won't phone home cause obvdiosly Winamp is evil and does that sort of shit.

so does that sound like an acceptable plan? as right now I couldn't care less if we ever release an updated build - beta or normal as clearly I don't understand the user base anymore and so should not be involved...
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Old 22nd September 2013, 18:21   #17
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DrO, what we would do without you, I've been reading your posts for years.

Before installing a new version I always make a backup of the existing version so it's easy to revert if need be with all the intact preferences and plugins. On XP I just copied back in the 5.7.0.3364 build with no expiration and it's working perfectly. Don't know about anyone else but I'm ready for 5.7 release.

Now if you can only give me a tip on how to resolve the Win7 classic theme problem...
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Old 22nd September 2013, 19:03   #18
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Basically two workarounds at this point if you want to still currently utilize the beta build. Honestly just posting this so developers for plugins can still work on their projects if they have not already figured out a solution themselves.

Change your system time
- Don't recommend it but it works

Inject a false system time into the application
- Recommend
- A freeware app that does this is RunAsDate (Utilize immediate mode)

As DrO says they have it there for a reason, I as well agree how they are doing it and it gives them the ability to keep track of items.
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Old 22nd September 2013, 19:26   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PseudoProxen View Post
Basically two workarounds at this point if you want to still currently utilize the beta build. Honestly just posting this so developers for plugins can still work on their projects if they have not already figured out a solution themselves.

Change your system time
- Don't recommend it but it works

Inject a false system time into the application
- Recommend
- A freeware app that does this is RunAsDate (Utilize immediate mode)

As DrO says they have it there for a reason, I as well agree how they are doing it and it gives them the ability to keep track of items.

Maybe is a stupid thing to make clear but... if decided to go trough "RunAsDate" solution, use the 32bits program, despite having a 64bits Windows (´cause Winamp is 32bits).
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Old 22nd September 2013, 21:05   #20
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personally, I appreciate having a rolling beta and I think its good for winamp as well, beta feedback makes a better product. I also completely approve of forcing users to upgrade IF a newer beta is available. I do think it is a sensible suggestion to say winamp beta should check to see if there is a newer beta available before it quits, and if not, don't quit. in fact, such a system would be better for a second reason, in that it could force a quit if there is a newer beta and its only been a few days or so since the beta's current install release. yes, it would require internet connection, but its a beta, I think that's a fair requirement for the ability to run a beta, and I would happily update as needed.

I do think the devs should realize that people don't want to be forced out of the beta without another to go to, and not get upset or surprised if someone says something, nor should they blanket everyone as feeling the way some random poster does who expresses himself poorly or rudely. most people using the beta appreciate the devs, I firmly believe that.

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Old 22nd September 2013, 22:16   #21
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there's no point in my replying anymore to anything that's being mentioned as it's not going to achieve anything other than proving i fucked things up by trying to do the right thing but clearly it wasn't.

i've completely disabled the date check from the code as well as the labs node as there's nothing that can be done to make any of it usable in the manner people want (as the labs node was meant for notifying pending updates, etc) and that's the end of it.

that way everyone is happy as they can keep running ancient beta builds for as long as they want (assuming there's even a new one released).

/me walks away
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Old 22nd September 2013, 23:34   #22
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for the record, I don't think you or anyone else fucked things up. I think the main thing people are trying to achieve is a better system, which in a larger context is the point of a beta. philosophically, I think the idea of deactivating old betas is the right choice, i'll be sorry to see it deprecated.

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Old 23rd September 2013, 06:52   #23
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release the same build and change the timebomb - or too difficult?
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Old 23rd September 2013, 10:28   #24
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I agree, expiring betas is a brilliant idea. I think making it do a version check is the best way around though, people may have put up a fuss about the existing update check, but beta rules are different and I don't think anyone would complain if the betas phoned home to look to make sure it's the current one.

Please reinstate the expiry code; with this alteration it'll work as intended and keep people listening to their music if the betas take longer than planned.

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Old 23rd September 2013, 11:08   #25
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An observation: A very very small number of people have complained about the expiry date. The majority of people realise a beta is a beta and just silently get on with things. Amazing how a small number of people can cause so much disruption.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 11:47   #26
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Batter Pudding, kindly don't mis-characterize our constructive criticism as disruption.

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Old 23rd September 2013, 15:04   #27
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Maybe is a stupid thing to make clear but... if decided to go trough "RunAsDate" solution, use the 32bits program, despite having a 64bits Windows (´cause Winamp is 32bits).
Oh, thanks. I think that my OS is something wrong.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 16:49   #28
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Inject a false system time into the application
- Recommend
- A freeware app that does this is RunAsDate (Utilize immediate mode)
Thanx for this suggestion.

NirSoft has a lot of useful little do-dads! I had overlooked this one.


@Victhor, Thank you too, for the heads up on the 32-bit thing.

It would not hurt to also run it in under Administrator mode, if UAC is enabled.

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Old 23rd September 2013, 17:07   #29
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Batter Pudding, kindly don't mis-characterize our constructive criticism as disruption.
That comment wasn't really aimed at you... sorry if you took offence. I was more trying to point out that the silent majority are not screaming here. I didn't want to enter any mass debate on the subject as it would be pointless. I have faith in the Winamp devs knowing that the job will be done when it is done and can see the benefit the current beta programme has brought it. As with any betas, there are always hiccups...
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Old 23rd September 2013, 17:16   #30
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there's no point in my replying anymore to anything that's being mentioned as it's not going to achieve anything other than proving i fucked things up by trying to do the right thing but clearly it wasn't.
You didn't f__k up, imo. What was done was reasonable under the circumstances. Maybe you were a little optimistic in trying to anticipate (or influence, as in push yourself?) the release schedule. But what's the crime in that? By definition, there are hiccups when dealing with beta software.

Edit:
Did not see BP's post before writing mine. We are using "hiccups", independently.

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Old 23rd September 2013, 17:27   #31
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Just wanted to point out that if the latest beta build has expired then re-jigging the date is doing no one any favours, not the devs and not yourself.
Who knows, that particular branch may have been abandonded, and any further work you do on it may well have to be re-done when a new build comes along anyway.

Just revert to the latest public, it takes about 2 mins of your time, and pick up on the next beta when it comes along.

[edit] maybe this needs spelling out in the expiry notice, particularly if no new beta is yet available.

UJ
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Old 23rd September 2013, 17:40   #32
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Just wanted to point out that if the latest beta build has expired then re-jigging the date is doing no one any favours, not the devs and not yourself.
I agree that changing the system date is not a good idea. The Nirsoft utility does not do that. The normal file updates, with the correct date and time, are made when Winamp is closed. There maybe a crash report generated when Winamp is closed (happens on my system), but it does not need to be sent.

Or, as you said, just do an in-place install of the current stable version.

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Old 23rd September 2013, 19:43   #33
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Edit:
Did not see BP's post before writing mine. We are using "hiccups", independently.
Hiccups are contagious.
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Old 24th September 2013, 00:00   #34
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That comment wasn't really aimed at you... sorry if you took offence. I was more trying to point out that the silent majority are not screaming here. I didn't want to enter any mass debate on the subject as it would be pointless. I have faith in the Winamp devs knowing that the job will be done when it is done and can see the benefit the current beta programme has brought it. As with any betas, there are always hiccups...
Ah okay, no hard feelings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
NirSoft has a lot of useful little do-dads! I had overlooked this one.
Yeah! I've used VideoCacheView for ages and somehow missed this one as well. Perfect workaround.

Request: A little SmartView Query Language love.
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Old 24th September 2013, 08:26   #35
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Ok just a 1/4 of an inch to the left

FINK YA'LL GETTIN TOO FLUSTERED 'BOUT NUTTIN'

Any chance of squirrly patterns round the edges and angelic voices singing the dawn chorus?

BETA
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Old 24th September 2013, 17:25   #36
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FINK YA'LL GETTIN TOO FLUSTERED 'BOUT NUTTIN'

Any chance of squirrly patterns round the edges and angelic voices singing the dawn chorus?

BETA
3 days without music will do that to a person!

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Old 25th September 2013, 16:00   #37
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next day without music
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Old 25th September 2013, 17:08   #38
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I was wondering what the hell was going on. I ended up having to install Winamp 565.
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Old 25th September 2013, 17:18   #39
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next day without music
seriously is it that difficult for people to just install v5.65? since that is the official version (which the beta builds were not).

or just do any / all of the hacks posted above (which is not recommended to be done) ...? geez
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Old 25th September 2013, 17:58   #40
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There is a really simple solution that I am using.... never ever close Winamp ever. Keep it running for evererererererere.... The Beta Date Test is only in the startup code. So you just jump into your TARDIS and nip back to last week, fire up Winamp, then use your TARDIS to return to the current day. Then never close Winamp ever again.

I assume you guys all have the TARDIS plugin? You should find it among the official plugins on this forum. Alongside the handy "Patience" Plugin.
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