Old 26th May 2004, 16:33   #1
UUL
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Exclamation New GUIO Winamp results

The new results are here and Emp-2 got 2 first places, Congrats to you all

here r the results

Most usable Winamp skin
1. EMP 2
2. AR7
3. D-Reliction

Best power user Winamp skin

1. EMP 2
2. Impulse
3. Resurgence



http://www.guiolympics.com/news_comm...asp?NewsID=133
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Old 26th May 2004, 17:12   #2
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well my respect for the GUIO is completely gone now..
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Old 26th May 2004, 17:16   #3
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Congrats to the winners, but for the most part I feel the results are total bull.
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Old 26th May 2004, 17:25   #4
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for the power user skin: there wheren't any real power user skins, only warp, but that one has been deleted
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Old 26th May 2004, 17:35   #5
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I'm thinking more about the most usable category..
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Old 26th May 2004, 17:43   #6
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EMP 2 is actually fairly good, but I question AR7, the design is good, but there were some bugs in the winshade mode, especially with docking that I just couldn't overlook.
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Old 26th May 2004, 17:46   #7
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"fairly good" isn't "the best".
D-R is, there's no doubt about it...
We should've owned this category.
It was SPECIFICALLY designed for beeing able to replace the default modern skin completely without ever looking back..
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Old 26th May 2004, 18:06   #8
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Please someone teach me how to make sexy jaggies, it's a pretty popular technique obviously.
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Old 26th May 2004, 18:16   #9
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hmm, /me disagrees with the results too... ah well, I think they R trying to diss us
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Old 26th May 2004, 18:21   #10
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kriptoner: just paint in mspaint.exe first and then transfer to photoshop where you use all the bevels and filters that photoshop automatically provides and then you're done!
It's obviously a winning technique..
And forget all about quality code, noone cares anyways..
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Old 26th May 2004, 18:25   #11
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Wait, really? Woah thanks the tips bro!

Never thought sodomy could be that fun.
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Old 26th May 2004, 19:52   #12
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ya'll got hosed.
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Old 26th May 2004, 20:43   #13
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Impulse should have won the most usable.

And yes, I agree - these results aren't satisfying
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Old 26th May 2004, 22:03   #14
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My words are just said there, here is a copy:
Quote:
Congratulations to all winners in all categories.
First I wanna say thank you to "judges" giving to my team a medal for AR-7......
Second I wanna know who those people are who judged the WA skins, not in public of course, as a captain of Metaskins team I would like to know with what criteria they "voted" for these results.

I totaly agree with Plague and rpeterclark, and I also have an official statement to make representing myself and I hope my team too.

As Metaskins we won't participate in any other GUIO in the future cause we "knew" from a very well known person in Stardock website(s) some of the results and we didn't paid attention in his warnings and we did participate hoping that his words was not so true (well they are at the end as I see) - no further info about him in any case -.

Now I know we ALL here have different tastes as about the results in 3/4 of the WA categories, BUT how Professionals are those judges to listen to each skin comment and NOT see for themselves? are they so lazy to test skin by skin in category after category and having notes of what each skin has /is able to do /features added on it etc. to REAL JUDGE them all?????

I remember you Frogboy for example asking for MORE submitions 3 weeks ago in WA skins cause there was only 17....... don't tell me that thosee 46 exist now are too heavy for those 2 judges that they didn't had trust in their selves adn wanted to "ask for help" from people's posts...... cause if this is true, then GUIO is not a serious competition at all and don't expect in the next "series" to have more than 2-3 teams and 10 individuals to participate in a family compatition and not a worldwide event.

You can see in your left of your screen how many teams are registered to participate, and how many of them (including our team) have submited meterials....... So blame your administration or your judges as about WA Skins results and NOT THE PEOPLE who commented, suggested, discussed about skins on the skins comment on each submition.

Peace from my side and take my statement as you wish, I don't really care

LaterZzz
That's all
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Old 26th May 2004, 23:30   #15
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I don't really know what to say...I'm sorry that many people here don't enjoy EMP 2, but that doesn't mean it came out of nowhere--I put a lot of effort into that skin, designing it to be the most usable it could possibly be, for me at least. I guess that some people are dissapointed that some skins didn't rank this or that way, but look, sometimes that's just how the cards fall. But, everyone has something to show for it--EMP 2 didn't get nearly as many comments as other skins, say D-Reliction. The judging for these contests doesn't look at the user rankings, but then there's the user's choice contest, so I hope everyone is happy with that one!

Anyways, I realize that people would be dissapointed if his/her skin didn't win--I certainly would. I just hope that all this "sour-grapes" doesn't wreck the professionality and spirit of Winamp skinning.
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Old 26th May 2004, 23:35   #16
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"I just hope that all this "sour-grapes" doesn't wreck the professionality and spirit of Winamp skinning."

Not at all my friend, cause now we are not anymore focused on this "competition", but in real business....... even more challenging the warm $$$ than the "reputation" and those WA pro and DVDs they send to "winners" hehehehehe

Keep on working people, GUIO was a joke.
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Old 26th May 2004, 23:55   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by AndrewMackowski
I don't really know what to say...I'm sorry that many people here don't enjoy EMP 2, but that doesn't mean it came out of nowhere--I put a lot of effort into that skin, designing it to be the most usable it could possibly be, for me at least. I guess that some people are dissapointed that some skins didn't rank this or that way, but look, sometimes that's just how the cards fall. But, everyone has something to show for it--EMP 2 didn't get nearly as many comments as other skins, say D-Reliction. The judging for these contests doesn't look at the user rankings, but then there's the user's choice contest, so I hope everyone is happy with that one!

Anyways, I realize that people would be dissapointed if his/her skin didn't win--I certainly would. I just hope that all this "sour-grapes" doesn't wreck the professionality and spirit of Winamp skinning.
easy for you to say, you won BOTH catagories.

man if i had of known this comp was for n00bs....

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Old 27th May 2004, 00:06   #18
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Now we know who to "blame"......
Original post from FrogBoy at GUIO results post.

Quote:
Official judges from the Winamp events:
On Winamp skins:
1) Steve from Nullsoft
2) Jonathan from Nullsoft
3) Jark from deviantART
4) Voodoo from Neowin
5) Kris from Stardock

Just going off the screenshots, they all look good to me.

Some of you seem to be thinking that the events were supposed to be about the best overall winamp skin or something. They weren't. They were about the most usable and best power user skin and each judge used their best determination to come up with which ones they thought were the best in those categories.
I don't have time to waste judging the judges , judgements........

GoodnightZzz
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Old 27th May 2004, 00:35   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by AndrewMackowski
I don't really know what to say...I'm sorry that many people here don't enjoy EMP 2, but that doesn't mean it came out of nowhere--I put a lot of effort into that skin, designing it to be the most usable it could possibly be, for me at least.
Believe me, we put months and months of work on D-Reliction to make it the most usable, solid, ass-kicking skin ever.. It was specifically designed to be able to replace the default modern skin completely and lots of effort was put into making sure every single angle was covered and that the code and gfx was top-notch.
Seeing how they judged, it's like a direct insult.
Like a damn kick in the stomach.

Quote:
Originally posted by AndrewMackowski
But, everyone has something to show for it--EMP 2 didn't get nearly as many comments as other skins, say D-Reliction. The judging for these contests doesn't look at the user rankings, but then there's the user's choice contest, so I hope everyone is happy with that one!
I highly doubt that.
We've been fucked over twice already, I'm absolutely sure we'll be fucked over in the rest of the categories aswell..

Quote:
Originally posted by AndrewMackowski
Anyways, I realize that people would be dissapointed if his/her skin didn't win--I certainly would. I just hope that all this "sour-grapes" doesn't wreck the professionality and spirit of Winamp skinning.
No, only the so-called "professionality" of GuiOS..
If they don't change things til next time, there won't be any real skinners left to compete over there..

-Plague
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Old 27th May 2004, 00:36   #20
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arent those two categories opposites???
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Old 27th May 2004, 00:36   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by hammerhead
Impulse should have won the most usable.
i personally find both enerka and EMP 2 more usable, but - to be fair - i've only used enerka in stick mode. i find the "full" EMP 2 mode more usable than impulse, though.

i find EMP 2 a little easier to use than D-Reliction, but D-R is much prettier.

since i mainly use "stick" modes of skins normally though, i'm using enerka.

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Old 27th May 2004, 00:36   #22
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so.. my analisys of "dont know there arseholes from their earholes" was correct
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Old 27th May 2004, 01:02   #23
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d-reliction is a solid, fantastic skin....but to think it deserves gold medal for "most usable" is just beyond me, sorry.

.........?.
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Old 27th May 2004, 01:13   #24
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Guys it's not only D-Reliction/EMP2/Enkera out there from those 46 skins submited.....


I'll talk for my team submitions for example....
Have you seen GrayZ? WooHoo-FER? LayerONE? AR-7? H2O Liquid?

I don't say each one deserves a medal cause for me the medals and the prices are real jokes for pieces of art who judged from people that don't have a real idea of how each skin is created and for what use. But I say that, the above skins are something that would be noticed more from users/judges.....

Just take a look at GrayZ and watch the details......

Anyway, river never goes back, we all wasted time there, and the only real thing we won was "popularity" on a funny "competition".....

GoodnightZzz
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Old 27th May 2004, 01:20   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by xenosomething
d-reliction is a solid, fantastic skin....but to think it deserves gold medal for "most usable" is just beyond me, sorry.
So, in your opinion, in what category _would_ D-Reliction deserve gold?

If there's one category D-Reliction beats the crap out of the competition, it's definitely most usable, sorry but there's no question about it..
And I'm not saying this because I coded it, I'm saying this because that's what it was designed for!..

If you don't agree then we yet again have different opinions about what most usable means, just like the most creative category had lots of different opinions on what creativity meant..
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Old 27th May 2004, 01:40   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Plague
So, in your opinion, in what category _would_ D-Reliction deserve gold?
i'd say it has a chance in "best overall"
as i think it has the best overall balance of all the skins in the GUI olympics.

and it will probably score well with "users choice" as well.

but i cant say i think it should of been a "clear winner" in any of the previous events it has lost in.

.........?.
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Old 27th May 2004, 01:43   #27
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ok, but do you think it would've been a "clear winner" in any other category?
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Old 27th May 2004, 01:44   #28
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I guess by usibility they wanted just huge buttons with huge symbols.

i can see their choices though, I mean, I looked at d-r and I was like "do I click the button ABOVE the play symbol or do I click the play symbol itself?" All over the skin I had this problem. I hit to hit some BUTTON instead of the actual word to use the skin. Very confusing.

I do like EMP, but I don't think it deserved 1st in both catagories. Maybe most usable sinply because it's buttns are huge and labled, but then again, I can't even double click on it to go to bar mode for the playlist. Maybe 2nd then. But yea...
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Old 27th May 2004, 01:53   #29
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hmmm, and yet, there are atleast two ways to do almost anything in the skin..
you can click the "buttons" in the LCD, ASWELL as the normal buttons to toggle the same stuff, ASWELL as using the normal right-click menu..
every single button in the main/baby/stick window will show a "tooltip-like" text in the songticker to tell you what they do. All sliders in those windows will also continously show the values in the songticker when you scroll them.
All buttons and sliders and switches etc have tooltips implemented.
and so on..

plus you have the tips window to help explaining things even more.

I thought things like that made it very very very usable and by far more usable than any other skin in the competition.

how many skins can you say give as much help and explainations as d-r does?
not a single one if you ask me, not even the default modern skin offers as much help as d-r does, nor does mmd3.

-Plague
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Old 27th May 2004, 02:04   #30
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Quote:
I can't even double click on it to go to bar mode for the playlist.
Thanks for pointing that out, will be fixed in the next release.
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Old 27th May 2004, 02:11   #31
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"I thought things like that made it very very very usable and by far more usable than any other skin in the competition."

GrayZ most and Ar-7 and LayerONE if you ask me, for exampe I can't use any other skin than GrayZ atm, and not cause I created, but cause RontZ code it for 1+half month with all these great details and clear tooltips in the InfoArea under the timer.....

As about the tooltips, I believe kriptoner should make the tolltips to be skinned and not default (some other skins also have default tooltips wich don't look as good as customized ones to my eyes)
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Old 27th May 2004, 02:14   #32
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Ahhh forgot to say, to me most Usable Skin means that it's so usable and EASY TO USE that don't needs any help at all, it's like install and play......

Except if the users are stupid blonde babes, where there you need to include a 30page PDF and a video tutorial
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Old 27th May 2004, 02:18   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Plague
ok, but do you think it would've been a "clear winner" in any other category?
i don't think any skin in the olympics has had that kind of affect on me.

but if they had a "most complete" event i would think that D-R should win.

as for the usability issue....the buttons were *really* thin. even after i finally spotted them i felt like a sniper trying to pick-off a midget

.........?.
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Old 27th May 2004, 02:23   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by VAG
As about the tooltips, I believe kriptoner should make the tolltips to be skinned and not default (some other skins also have default tooltips wich don't look as good as customized ones to my eyes)
That's one area I don't agree...
I've already tried skinned tooltips for d-r but I like the default more because they are more visible (stand out more from the rest of the skin, which in turn means they are easier to read). Skinned tooltips are either too heavy, gfx wise, or blend in too much with the rest of the skin which means they aren't as visible and thus they loose alot of their function..

As for time spent on coding d-r, well, I spent several months coding d-r and I pretty much did nothing else during that time. It's been very carefully coded and alot of time was spent on optimisations and making sure every angle was covered, etc..

oh well, I'm still very proud of d-r, it's my finest piece of work so far and I honestly believe it's one of the best winamp skins in the world (without trying to sound like an ego-tripped bastard). That's why this guio thing hurts so much.
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Old 27th May 2004, 02:37   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by xenosomething
as for the usability issue....the buttons were *really* thin. even after i finally spotted them i felt like a sniper trying to pick-off a midget
lol, ok..
I'm using 1600x1200 on a 19" monitor and the only things I felt like that with were the LCD sliders, but that's been fixed now, yes you still need to click within the 4px something area to begin scrolling them, but then you don't have to aim like a sniper to be able to scroll them, which has made wonders.
Still, I can somewhat understand the issue..
but I still think it's more usable than other skins in that category, as I've had to search around alot more in the other skins, than I feel is neccesary in d-r..

Quote:
Originally posted by VAG
Ahhh forgot to say, to me most Usable Skin means that it's so usable and EASY TO USE that don't needs any help at all, it's like install and play......
and here I go thinking d-r fulfills that requirement. am I really the only one?

Anyways, most usable doesn't mean ease of use as in "stupid morons who cant find the power button on the computer should be able to use it out of the box without having to even wait for the tooltip to appear", it means the skin you'd use for your everyday use, ie: your default skin. That in turn means it should be easy enough to use, offer the features you use often in convenient places, etc...

D-R has just about no learning curve at all imo, and for those who feel the need to learn how to use it, there are loads of help to get, to be able to get started immediately.

I certainly feel it's by far easier to use than for example emp2 is.

oh well..

this is why we need _clear_ definitions what "most usable" and "most creative" and "best power user", etc, means!
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Old 27th May 2004, 02:54   #36
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you're coder my friend that's why we disagree on tooltips, readable tooltips are artist's concern and not coder's

Also custome tooltips gives you the ability to theme them.

Anyway I bet you haven't used GrayZ/LayerONE/AR-7 cause you use everyday D-R, as I use GrayZ in a daily base listening my Metal/Thrash songs there.

Use it once and then tell me about usability and fun it has as skin and shape (also see Current Skin presentation)

Goodmorning/Good day people, I'm tired and off to sleep for real now.

No more GUIO discussion, it was/is a joke and I'm sorry that Nullsoft is sponsor there supporting this joke.
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Old 27th May 2004, 03:14   #37
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You know, almost all of the skins entered in the competition were great. I love EMP2 and am glad it won. But I would have been just as glad if D-Reliction had won. Maybe you guys should spend more time congratuating AndrewMackowski and less time complaining.
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Old 27th May 2004, 05:26   #38
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im not dissing AndrewMackowski, im dissing the judges, and the competition itself.

poorly organised
crappy site
the amount of shit gone wrong
we find out the critical info when its too late
crap judging

and VAG, by the looks of half the skins up on that leaderboard, your skins should be way up there.

my initial thought is that they had the final placings in the opposite order. dead serious. (and part of me still thinks its a big joke).

the only thing that would make sense of things is if D-r and Resurgence win the major prizes. and even then its still an insult.


its funny that all the experienced skinners get dogged and share equal views (those who did and did not enter), while all the b grade skinners win outright and say its a fair competition.

"dont know there arseholes from their earholes"

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Old 27th May 2004, 05:57   #39
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must admit that this wasn't a really well orgranised competition..yes i entered and got 4th in the most usable section (still have best themed to go) but there were many other better skins out there that could have done better..for me as someone who uses winamp everyday, i found it REALLY easy to use D-R, took a little getting used to, about 3 mins!! EMP2 in my opinion wasn't really that good, it had one huge play button and then the small buttons around it i couldn't really see, same with the rest of it. i reckon that most of the METASKINS skins like layerONE could have done better, was well planned out.

oh and plague, u would have one in the power user section, now that i know what it means. i thought it was how small and cpu efficient it was..which proves ur point about the critical information thing.

overall wasn't that bad a competition but was fairly shitty considering i reckon they thought more about the windows blinds things than winamp or icon packages.

-matt

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Old 27th May 2004, 06:21   #40
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and how is it possible that a classic skin got 5th on the power user skin ?!!!!!!!
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