Visualization vs. Candy

ben718 · 22nd May 2001, 04:02

I used to (and still do) sit in a dark room, playing my music loud and watching Geiss. It is a constant source of amazement and beauty for me. It was the primary reason I upgraded my computer a few months ago...Geiss wasn't running fast enough! One of the things that make Geiss head and shoulders superior to other visualizations is that it ISN'T just eye candy loosely related to the music. With proper frame rates and especially a 16 bit or higher color depth, you see the music, not just pretty colors.

What I'm seeing with MilkDrop is the answer to (nearly) all my earthly desires, namely a new piece of software from Ryan Geiss and a successor to Geiss that utilizes my 3D hardware. But it doesn't show the music nearly as well as Geiss does, and I'd like to suggest some ways that it could, and why it should.

The lion’s share of the waveforms in MilkDrop are jumbles on the screen, and the only discernable piece of information they transmit is the level, or loudness of the music. In addition, sometimes the jumble is off screen or the screen is too bright, so you sometimes can't see the music at all. In Geiss, most of the time you saw a waveform that either showed a frequency output or the sound wave itself. This transmits a lot of information to the viewer about the music.

The waveforms would have been enough to make Geiss my favorite, but piled on top of them were the pulse-like mode where beats appear as pulses of light that then radiate ******d, and in the higher color modes, the color of the wave form would change in relation to the dominant frequency of the music. I like the new ideas in MilkDrop, namely the movement of the screen on the beat, some of the new eye candy, and especially the red/blue 3D support. Don't get me wrong -- I am not demanding that MilkDrop be Geiss reincarnated in 3D -- but I think that MilkDrop would really benefit from concentrating more on showing what is going on in the music and not letting the candy get in the way of that.

I am a second year computer science student who cares way too much about this stuff. I have nothing good to do with my summer and would be willing to help in any way I can.

-Ben

D&B · 22nd May 2001, 22:07

I agree. I would love to see everything else that Geiss and AVS can do put into Milkdrop. But I dont think that anything that is there should be taken away. Just add more options that are available to make presets with, so you could have very realistic or just plain beautiful presets, or better yet, both with it randomly changing in between.....

TheHacker · 31st May 2001, 11:29

Hi,
I also agree. After finally seeing MilkDrop in action... to be honest, according to all the posts on this forum I have expected it to be absolutely perfect and I was a little bit disappointed. Please don't get me wrong, it's a great piece of work, but I am missing the element of seeing the music, same way as Ben does. Sometimes it seems that there are just some random lines on the screen doing pretty things.
(If anyone knows Oceanic by Vangelis, try listening to it with Geiss (the plugin ;-) with the two horizontal oscilloscope lines and a preset which "flies forward" (eg. 07 as far as I remember)... It's unbelievable.)
MilkDrop is fine, but I absolutely share Ben's opinion.

Apart from that, it is very dark, I sometimes can hardly see a thing and that in 32bit.

Short note to Ben:
> I like the new ideas in MilkDrop, namely the movement of the screen on the beat

That is in Geiss, too. I think you activate it by pressing "i" or in the config box (as far as I remember).

Good luck Ryan and I think we all believe that you are about to create another best plugin for WinAMP. Good luck again.

Roman

geiss · 7th June 2001, 19:24

Dudes,

Thanks for the excellent support and feedback. I listened =) and the old, standard waveform a la Geiss/AVS is now in MilkDrop version 0.99d. Enjoy!

-Ryan

D&B · 8th June 2001, 05:12

Just dont take anything out!

Another thing I miss is the ability to rate a preset, so I can have my favorites come up more often, and I can turn off the ones I dislike without actually deleting them.

TheHacker · 8th June 2001, 10:52

Hey,
Thank you Ryan, you're the best! Gonna try it out as soon as I get home. BTW: You forgot to update the "documentation" link on your page as it seems. Just a note.

Keep up the good work
Roman

D&B · 8th June 2001, 23:56

CHRIST! The download link is dead. And I so want to try it!

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22nd May 2001, 04:02	#1
ben718 Junior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 5	I used to (and still do) sit in a dark room, playing my music loud and watching Geiss. It is a constant source of amazement and beauty for me. It was the primary reason I upgraded my computer a few months ago...Geiss wasn't running fast enough! One of the things that make Geiss head and shoulders superior to other visualizations is that it ISN'T just eye candy loosely related to the music. With proper frame rates and especially a 16 bit or higher color depth, you see the music, not just pretty colors. What I'm seeing with MilkDrop is the answer to (nearly) all my earthly desires, namely a new piece of software from Ryan Geiss and a successor to Geiss that utilizes my 3D hardware. But it doesn't show the music nearly as well as Geiss does, and I'd like to suggest some ways that it could, and why it should. The lion’s share of the waveforms in MilkDrop are jumbles on the screen, and the only discernable piece of information they transmit is the level, or loudness of the music. In addition, sometimes the jumble is off screen or the screen is too bright, so you sometimes can't see the music at all. In Geiss, most of the time you saw a waveform that either showed a frequency output or the sound wave itself. This transmits a lot of information to the viewer about the music. The waveforms would have been enough to make Geiss my favorite, but piled on top of them were the pulse-like mode where beats appear as pulses of light that then radiate ******d, and in the higher color modes, the color of the wave form would change in relation to the dominant frequency of the music. I like the new ideas in MilkDrop, namely the movement of the screen on the beat, some of the new eye candy, and especially the red/blue 3D support. Don't get me wrong -- I am not demanding that MilkDrop be Geiss reincarnated in 3D -- but I think that MilkDrop would really benefit from concentrating more on showing what is going on in the music and not letting the candy get in the way of that. I am a second year computer science student who cares way too much about this stuff. I have nothing good to do with my summer and would be willing to help in any way I can. -Ben

22nd May 2001, 22:07	#2
D&B Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 1,027	I agree. I would love to see everything else that Geiss and AVS can do put into Milkdrop. But I dont think that anything that is there should be taken away. Just add more options that are available to make presets with, so you could have very realistic or just plain beautiful presets, or better yet, both with it randomly changing in between.....

31st May 2001, 11:29	#3
TheHacker Junior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Slovakia Posts: 14	Hi, I also agree. After finally seeing MilkDrop in action... to be honest, according to all the posts on this forum I have expected it to be absolutely perfect and I was a little bit disappointed. Please don't get me wrong, it's a great piece of work, but I am missing the element of seeing the music, same way as Ben does. Sometimes it seems that there are just some random lines on the screen doing pretty things. (If anyone knows Oceanic by Vangelis, try listening to it with Geiss (the plugin ;-) with the two horizontal oscilloscope lines and a preset which "flies forward" (eg. 07 as far as I remember)... It's unbelievable.) MilkDrop is fine, but I absolutely share Ben's opinion. Apart from that, it is very dark, I sometimes can hardly see a thing and that in 32bit. Short note to Ben: > I like the new ideas in MilkDrop, namely the movement of the screen on the beat That is in Geiss, too. I think you activate it by pressing "i" or in the config box (as far as I remember). Good luck Ryan and I think we all believe that you are about to create another best plugin for WinAMP. Good luck again. Roman

7th June 2001, 19:24	#4
geiss Nullsoft Visualization Developer Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 147	Dudes, Thanks for the excellent support and feedback. I listened =) and the old, standard waveform a la Geiss/AVS is now in MilkDrop version 0.99d. Enjoy! -Ryan

8th June 2001, 05:12	#5
D&B Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 1,027	Just dont take anything out! Another thing I miss is the ability to rate a preset, so I can have my favorites come up more often, and I can turn off the ones I dislike without actually deleting them.

8th June 2001, 10:52	#6
TheHacker Junior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Slovakia Posts: 14	Hey, Thank you Ryan, you're the best! Gonna try it out as soon as I get home. BTW: You forgot to update the "documentation" link on your page as it seems. Just a note. Keep up the good work Roman

8th June 2001, 23:56	#7
D&B Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 1,027	CHRIST! The download link is dead. And I so want to try it!