Old 23rd February 2009, 00:37   #81
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i'm cool with that, with one caveat:

what if the file already has a value for the POPM frame? if it does, seems silly for winamp to make you "opt in" to change it, b/c if you don't then what happens? you change the rating and it changes in the winamp DB, but not the files tag?

just pointing it out, not sure i have an elegant solution.

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Old 23rd February 2009, 13:45   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrSinatra
i'm cool with that, with one caveat:

what if the file already has a value for the POPM frame? if it does, seems silly for winamp to make you "opt in" to change it, b/c if you don't then what happens? you change the rating and it changes in the winamp DB, but not the files tag?

just pointing it out, not sure i have an elegant solution.
Why would you want to keep the previous rating if you're re-rating the file anyway? Just overwrite it ...

Here's hoping Dr0 will save the day and give us ratings in tags - I'll be following this thread very interestedly

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Old 23rd February 2009, 18:28   #83
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you DON'T want to keep the previous rating... thats the point. read the post before mine.

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Old 24th February 2009, 08:15   #84
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Obviously there should be a global setting of some sort that allows Winamp write-access to the ID3 tag ratings - as well as an option for reading ID3 tag ratings when scanning media for addition to the library.

A per-file dialog would be a far bigger hassle - not to mention annoying as hell.

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Old 24th February 2009, 08:23   #85
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a per file dialog? for what? and who is advocating that?

also, your first point doesn't address the issue i am raising... understand the issue:

if users are to "opt in" as was suggested, then what happens if they have NOT opted in, and they rate the file with the intention of saving that rating in the winamp DB only; WHILE AT THE SAME TIME the file already had a pre-existing differing value in its POPM frame???

if you allow that, you are basically condoning inconsistentcy between the data in the files tag, and the rating in the winamp DB. thats not desirable.

like i said, i don't think i have an elegant solution, but if i were winamp, i would probably just K.I.S.S. and have people "opt out" if they wanted to, not "opt in." then, if they have inconsistentcy, its on them [the users] to deal with it.

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Old 24th February 2009, 09:52   #86
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What's the problem with inconsistency if the user has the option to set Winamp to _not_ read ratings from file tags? If there's an option to turn off this functionality completely (which should probably be set by default), the ratings in the tags mean **** all and will be ignored...

All in all, I'm starting to get the feeling that we're talking about exactly the same thing . We don't need an "elegant" solution - having the user specify which behaviour he wants in the preferences (or maybe in a prompt the first [only the first!] time he imports media into the library...) is as elegant as it's going to get.

Or maybe just a separate "import ratings from file tags" function, and then a setting whether or not to automatically add rating info to the tag when rating in Winamp.

The only problem I can think of is getting music from friends - you'd have to import the files with ratings and then null them manually... but since this is a gray legal area (some would say black ) anyway, it's probably not all that relevant.

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Old 24th February 2009, 20:44   #87
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the problem is the inconsistentcy itself. also, the lack of persistence.

first consider that if you move a file, and/or clear and rescan your library, any DB ratings will be lost.

second, most people would not want their files to have one rating, while their DB has another, for the same song.

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Old 25th February 2009, 15:44   #88
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I think that by making this request overly complicated, someone will be less likely to do it! From my perspective, I want the rating and playcount in the ID3 tag as a backup and as a means to move the songs without losing the information. I do not want to not use the winamp DB and slow things down.

Simply having a provision to write all info to tags and read the info back would be sufficient. This would be a one shot, user selectable ocurance. This would solve almost all of the requests for this option, backup and the ability to move the music to another directory, drive, or computer, without losing the data.
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Old 25th February 2009, 18:00   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bilbo9955 From my perspective, I want the rating and playcount in the ID3 tag as a backup and as a means to move the songs without losing the information. I do not want to not use the winamp DB and slow things down.[/B]
How would you be not using the Winamp DB?

AFAIK, as is, tag information (except maybe special fields) is read from the files once and then stored in the Media Library DB. When the user changes the ML database (Ctrl+E in the library), Winamp updates the file's tags as well.

Changing file tags from within the playlist editor is a different story. When you add files from the ML to the playlist editor, they are rescanned according to the rules you set in Settings>Titles. As far as I can tell (or rather, guess), Winamp checks if the file is present in the ML database, and if so, updates the database accordingly.

For ratings, this behaviour could be similar. The user just needs to be able to choose whether or not to import the rating data when adding media to the ML database - that's all. You could forgo this option completely, and just have Winamp read the tags' ratings by default, same as the rest of the tag fields. Might be annoying to people who share a lot of files though...

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Old 25th February 2009, 18:36   #90
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the POPM spec allows you to support multiple users, meaning that each user can have his or her own rating for the same song.

and while it may seem that ignoring the POPM frame on ML import and for editing is an ok option, as i said in my last post, it does come with two somewhat serious issues:

1. lack of persistence.
2. inconsistentcy between the rating in the tag, and the rating in the winamp DB.

my guess is winamp would rather avoid those two issues, and simply not give users an "opt out" at all, but if they do anything optional, it probably should be just an opt out.

of course, at this point, i'm basically just repeating myself.

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Old 25th February 2009, 19:06   #91
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You keep saying "opt out". What exactly do you mean by that?

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Old 25th February 2009, 19:12   #92
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i am assuming that when DrO writes the code to support this, that it will be either:

1. non-optionally forced on everyone. this will avoid the inconsistentcy and persistence issues.
or
2. optional, but "on" by default. [meaning, "opt in" is the default setting]. users would have the option to "opt out" and have winamp ignore the tags for ratings, and keep the info in the DB alone.

personally, those are the only two ways that i can see justifying. but maybe DrO and winamp will see it differently and make it an "opt in" feature, or perhaps they will start it like that, and then change it to opt out at a later date. they would be wise to consider the issues i raised however, if they want to avoid support headaches.

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Old 25th February 2009, 23:25   #93
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TL;DR. Ok let me elaborate on what I posted before.

1. Leave Winamp the way it is now by default. If a user (like me) wants to write to the rating in the POPM flag then we should be allowed to by checking off a setting in Winamp.

2. If this setting isn't checked, completely ignore the rating from the POPM flag, just like Winamp does right now.

3. When a song is rated, and the mentioned setting is checked off it should write the rating to the file *and* to the Winamp DB. There should be another option to either:
A. Sync Winamp DB/POPM Frame with Winamp winning on conflicts. (Basically, Winamp DB rating wins if there is inconsistency with POPM Frame rating)
B. Sync Winamp DB/POPM Frame with POPM Frame winning on conflicts. (Basically, POPM Frame rating wins if there is inconsistency with Winamp DB rating)


Also, I believe there should be a "clear rating on import" option for people that don't want to import other users ratings as they download music.

Lastly, I hope this can be implemented because it is extremely annoying not having my info saved to the file as I move my music around a lot. E.g. if anyone uses MediaMonkey and uses the "auto-organize" function that renames filenames based on ID3 tags then you know that you have to clear all the moved songs out of Winamp then re-import them, losing all ratings and playcounts.
I see no problem with what I suggested as regular Winamp users will not notice a difference, there is no inconsistency and more of your user base will benefit.

If not, oh well, at least there are competitors are making progress.
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Old 26th February 2009, 01:30   #94
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Opt-in usually means that is an option/feature which you have to agree to or say yes to. Similar to: "Would you like fries with that?"

Opt-out is the opposite, you have to disagree to. Like in the Winamp installer, all features are opt-out because by default they are all installed.

In this case opt-out should mean that you have to disable "Use ratings in files" and opt-in means you should have to enable "Use ratings in files".

If this ever gets implemented, it should be a single checkbox in the Media Library preferences that makes ratings behave like other tags. This way ratings from the file are only imported when the file is or when you use the "Read metadata on selection" feature.

Saving would be different because unlike the "Edit selected items" box, there is no way to show a "Write changes to file" when rating using hotkeys or the stars. An option could be shown in the ratings sub-menu.

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Old 26th February 2009, 12:23   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by J_Darnley
it should be a single checkbox in the Media Library preferences that makes ratings behave like other tags. This way ratings from the file are only imported when the file is or when you use the "Read metadata on selection" feature.
that's pretty much how i was going to handle the importing of the ratings.

saving of the ratings out is another thing and until i verify how most of the metadata saving is being done, that will determine how the rating writing will be integrated.

whatever happens it will have to enabled by the user as i'm not going to force this subjective feature onto the larger part of the userbase who pretty much won't need this. and until reading/writing of the rating fields is implemented into the input plugins, the ui aspect of integration is a moot point

-daz
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Old 26th February 2009, 15:34   #96
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DrO,

be sure to give the slim devices link a thorough read, it goes into depth about how POPM is actually implemented by differing apps.

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Old 8th August 2009, 12:44   #97
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seems like things were progressing well on this - any recent updates?
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Old 8th August 2009, 18:01   #98
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DrO said he doesn't have time to do it. pity. i wish someone who actually gets paid by nullsoft would step up and do it.

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Old 8th August 2009, 19:06   #99
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daz doesn't get paid by nullsoft?

!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 20th August 2009, 14:32   #100
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i just have fckng lost the results of my two-day work of compiling a ~100 hours playlist [just made it to 15 hours yet] basing on ratings!!!!! they are stored in database which became corrupted due to unexpected shutdown and winamp stopped starting, crashing instead... all i had to do is delete the main.dat and main.idx in order to run it again, i copied the ml folder to another location after that [oh i know i should have done before] but how in the world can i repair the corrupted database?
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Old 20th August 2009, 15:42   #101
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so the ml database files have been deleted?if so, probably not possible. if not, but corrupted, try renaming main.dat to something like corruptmain.dat and open both that and the new, fresh main.dat in notepad. Might be that you can paste most/all of the dbase from the corrupt file to the fresh.

But it sounds like you might have lost it mate...
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Old 21st August 2009, 08:51   #102
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oh man, i tried that, thanks for your suggestion anyway.. what is obscure to me is which part of the .dat file makes is corrupt.. i compared my old file with the fresh one in a hex editor, the headers are identical.. if the problem is somewhere deep into the file, then any manual attempts seem quite unreal to help.. there was a block of straight zeroes in the end of the corrupted one, i deleted it to no avail. i would understand the impossibility to recover this file [the statement i saw many times in the forum]if it were encrypted in any way, which is not the case - i can read the names of tracks there. clearly someone who knows the data structure of .dat file [read - the developers], i BET they could do an utility to repair it, especially given the number and frequency of library crashes. OR make it less fragile, which is better...

edit
tried installing 5.56, which, according to what's new has many optimizations, bugfixes and [ml_local] New background scanner which i hoped would possibly read the corrupt db, but my hopes were void.

waved goodbye to winamp. hello jriver mediacenter!

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Old 27th August 2009, 02:09   #103
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Hey people.. did anyone find a solution to this problem??? I have a few discographies that I really want to rate all musics, it's about 5000 songs... i started to do this, but my PC crashes and I lost all my work... even Windows Media Player stores the rating in ID3 tags.

somebody has to write a plugin to do that... it's simple, just read de 5stars (*****) column from the ID3 field... this really sounds simple..

I WON't delete any 1-star or even 0-star files from my library, because I want the complete discography (saying this just because some "smart" comments above)



thnx
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Old 4th December 2009, 17:35   #104
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Mp3 Rating Friend

hi,
i have the solution: Mp3 Rating Friend
its a piece of software no plugin and does all what you need. it can copy ratings from winamp db to mediafile tags and vice versa. you can select which files to touch and which direction.
check out this website for the program: http://www.moedinger.it
www . moedineger . it

and please provide feedback on the site forum
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Old 17th December 2009, 17:03   #105
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My 2 Samsung HDDs broke about a year ago and I lost hundreds of ratings. Since I have a 20Gb Creative Nomad Zen I could restore all mp3 files but not the ratings... If the Winamp team doesnt plan to offer an option to store the ratings in the ID3 tags a ratings database backup feature is a must have.

Greetings,
Marcel

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Old 17th December 2009, 19:34   #106
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so did you try the app mp3ratingfriend made? what were your results?

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Old 18th December 2009, 02:12   #107
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For all the people, who were waiting for this feature:

Write ratings into files
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Old 18th December 2009, 02:14   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by Psygnosis2097
My 2 Samsung HDDs broke about a year ago and I lost hundreds of ratings. Since I have a 20Gb Creative Nomad Zen I could restore all mp3 files but not the ratings... If the Winamp team doesnt plan to offer an option to store the ratings in the ID3 tags a ratings database backup feature is a must have.

Greetings,
Marcel
There is a database backup feature. Click the 'library' button and you should see "Import Database" and "Export Database"
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Old 18th December 2009, 08:23   #109
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Oh thats nice. But why does it say "iTunes XML Libary" when I save it? Does that mean I could replace the Media Libary file from iTunes with this and have all the ratings I've made with Winamp in iTunes? Its not like I want to replace Winamp with iTunes but having the ratings that I've made in Winamp on my iPhone as well would be pretty neat.

Greetings,
Marcel
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Old 28th December 2009, 10:47   #110
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The day before yesterday I was angry about that this function isn't supported because of that I "love" to move and sort my music library and than all ratings is gone in less then a minute.

I also get a lot of music from friends and so on but when I sync my music on my computer with my music on my extern hard drive via for example goodsync, the ratings too disappear.

Why I write today is of another reason. I was about to give my brother my best music, he wanted some music on his mp3, but it took ages to find the best songs from every band. I could have search for the music in my winamp library, but I don't have all my music their of several reason so i was forced to find it in windows explorer and the only thing i thought about was that it had been so easy if winamp had stored the ratings in id3 tag so I had been able to see them in windows vista explorer like you could if you rate a song in wmp.

I would pay a lot to get that feature!
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Old 27th August 2010, 15:04   #111
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and what about saving the playcount in the id3tag?
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Old 27th August 2010, 17:34   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsimon View Post
The day before yesterday I was angry about that this function isn't supported because of that I "love" to move and sort my music library and than all ratings is gone in less then a minute.

I also get a lot of music from friends and so on but when I sync my music on my computer with my music on my extern hard drive via for example goodsync, the ratings too disappear.

Why I write today is of another reason. I was about to give my brother my best music, he wanted some music on his mp3, but it took ages to find the best songs from every band. I could have search for the music in my winamp library, but I don't have all my music their of several reason so i was forced to find it in windows explorer and the only thing i thought about was that it had been so easy if winamp had stored the ratings in id3 tag so I had been able to see them in windows vista explorer like you could if you rate a song in wmp.

I would pay a lot to get that feature!
did u miss this post?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koopa View Post
For all the people, who were waiting for this feature:

Write ratings into files

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Old 28th November 2010, 14:01   #113
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An older discussion, but with the dissipation of Windows Vista and its feature to display the rating of mp3s in the Explorer it becomes obvious that a way to export Winamp ratings to ID3 tags would be a handy function.

Probably the best and elegant way to rate an mp3 is via Ruzzz' tray rating plugin. I asked him for the source code and he was so kind to provide it to me and by aid of id3lib I added some functions to retrieve and set the rating in the id3 tag in a similar fashion WMP does.

Now the question rises whether or not the function should be added to Ruzzz plugin or should it be published as a separate plugin. Ruzzz argued that people wouldn't want to have their mp3s changed -- even when WMP doesn't care about it, I can understand this concern. A way to reflect this could be to have the media library based rating as default and pop up the options screen after installation to give the user the chance to opt-in to id3 tag rating. Without integration in one plugin people like R U Bn, who wants to maintaining the rating in the rating in the id3 tag and the media library at the same time, won't have a chance.

I can understand Craigs concerns about storing the rating in the id3 tag. This is sensitive information and surely the wet dream of the music industry to access the rating. The way the rating is implemented in id3v2 (rasOptik mentioned it: see here under 4.17. "Popularimeter") could indeed underpin your suspicion: It's intended that you add an email address to your rating so different people would be able to rate a file. Should an application arise some day that allows exchange of ratings, I hope this won't fall prey to some commercial organization. But I drift away from the topic too much...

There are good reasons to store the rating in id3 tags. For example I need to rate music as I hear it, should it be on my mobile mp3 player or at home with Winamp. Running a web radio station, I then need to see the rating in Explorer and copy only those songs with sufficient rating to the upstream server. In the moment every player I use, that means my mobile ZEN player and Winamp, only maintain their own database and I'm just not able to use my rating to keep track of my music reviews in a way that makes sense.

I'm aware of shaneh's ml_id3rate plugin and the RatingFriend, but I just don't use the Winamp media library for obvious reasons and want the id3 tags to be the place where my ratings are stored primarily.

To cut it short: The plugin will come. The only question is how. So Ruzzz and me want a little feedpack on this. Just tell us your preffered option:

1) a tray rating and a id3 tray rating plugin as separate plugins
2) tray rating with id3 rating to opt-in on the config screen
3) tray rating with both rating mechanisms active by default
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Old 28th November 2010, 14:34   #114
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this thread is somewhat outdated to recent changes since the 5.59 beta release...

as the next Winamp release will support writing ratings into the POPM field in an ID3v2 tag (already present if you enable the ini-only option but is a UI option in the builds after the 5.59 beta available at the moment). it's enabled via an option on the main preferences page but also applies to uses of the ratings menus and using the metadata writing apis if "rating" is passed i.e. the input plug-ins are doing the work so can be used even if the ui option isn't enabled for media library edits - but you have to purposefully use it so there was no need to add in an extra UI option to disable it) so i'm not sure there's a need to make a plug-in (especially when it's been applied to non-mp3 formats which support the means to save a ratings field).

-daz
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Old 28th November 2010, 16:44   #115
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Well... perfect timing. Can you give me a clue where to find information about setting up id3 rating in the ini file? Found nothing in the 5.59 beta release notes...
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Old 28th November 2010, 16:44   #116
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tmielke,

look at my sig for a link where ratings are discussed.

i agree with DrO, wait for 5.59 before you decide how to proceed. i enabled the ini option, and it works, but so far only with id3, and that will change. also, the ML does weird stuff when you rate things, and so it will be interesting to see if any of that gets fixed or not.

i'd like to see some of the things you are talking about, but don't waste your time doing stuff they are about to do, rather wait and add to it once 5.59 is out.

EDIT: be aware that win7/wmp12 has a nasty bug where RG tags are ruined when they rate things.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 29th November 2010, 10:25   #117
tmielke
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Ok, writeratings=1 in gen_ml.ini worked after installing the 5.59 beta (apart from the play count going nuts in the tag and getting a crash message on closing the program).

I see now that an integration with the existing tray rating plugin is of no use when it will be in the media library. But I think -- with Ruzzz' permission -- I will make available my id3 hack of the tray rating plugin, just for people like me who don't use the media library.
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Old 29th November 2010, 10:43   #118
DrO
 
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you don't need to use the media library for it to work (as i mentioned in my prior post) as the input plug-ins will natively support writing out "rating" i.e. when using IPC_SET_EXTENDED_FILE_INFO(W), just having the media library installed with the setting enabled will cause any rating changes to be saved out to the files (from what i remember).

obviously if you want to do it then no one is going to stop you but it seems a bit pointless when all you need to do is use a 5.59 or higher client and use the 'rating' metadata field on a file (without doing one format specific version when the native version is applied in 4 or 5 input plug-ins).

-daz
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Old 29th November 2010, 10:50   #119
bemymonkey
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So can I use 5.59 beta to add the ratings already in my library to all the files? Or will that have to wait until 5.59 final?

Weeeeeeeeeeee
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Old 29th November 2010, 11:03   #120
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you can do it currently (with manually doing the ini) though it depends if you have files other than mp3 and want them to work as well.

-daz
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