Old 10th August 2006, 01:37   #1
Triton4
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German cars vs Japanese cars

If you are comparing the average American's German car (Audi, Mercedes, BMW or Volkswagen) with the average American's Japanese car (Honda, Toyota, Nissan etc.) which do you thin is the better in terms of:

1. Performance
2. Reliability
3. Pricing

And how do they compare with the America's very own Big-3 (Ford, GMC, Chrysler)?

P.S. I am ignoring the German super-car Porsche, which in my opinion is way ahead of the whole lot.
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Old 10th August 2006, 02:15   #2
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Porsche does indeed have the highest customer satisfaction rating, but it's not "far" above the rest. Drive several of all the German makes and you'll see. In fact, a Japanese make - Toyota - is a close second to Porsche in customer satisfaction. The only thing Porsche is "far above" is in price. Especially when a Corvette or Viper actually compare overall, but for MUCH less money.

So in response to your list...

1. Japanese.
2. Some makes/models are a tie between Japanese and German, and Japan wins the rest.
3. Japanese and American.

If those three categories are your top priorities, buy Japanese or American. (American cars are very respectable in the areas of performance and price, and have improved greatly over the past 20 years in reliability as well.)

My personal priorities are luxury, features, top-end materials, rock-solid construction, performance.....and almost damn the cost. Hence, BMW and Mercedes. Cadillac would be in my list, but I could get a very comparable Buick Lucerne with a Northstar engine for MUCH less money. Cadillacs are fantastic cars, but vastly overpriced.

I'm seriously considering trading my BMW 530i for a Mercedes S500 within a few months, although everyone I've talked to have said, "Don't!" Mercedes depreciate to an extreme, which is good for buying CPO, but not good for buying new and hoping to be right-side-up on the lein within two years. (Example, a $90,000 Mercedes in excellent condition can be had three-years-old for $35,000, while the same aged $55,000 BMW will run that amount.)

And what about the higher-end the Japanese "big three"...Acura, Lexus and Infiniti? I've done a lot of research lately, and Infiniti is the only one that makes my list. They are a clear step up from Nissan. Lexuses are just overpriced Toyotas, and Acuras are just overpriced Hondas.

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Old 10th August 2006, 02:52   #3
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Toyota tops the list in customer satisfaction this year, I heard on the news today.
Like the average Joe can afford a German car anyway.
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Old 10th August 2006, 06:33   #4
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Over the past 3 or so years I have owned two different Toyotas and a Ford. I love my current Toyota, there aren't many cars on the road that I would seriously consider trading mine for.

I do enjoy driving my little brothers BMW from time to time but I love the smooth ride my car gives.

I would love to have one of the new ES350s but right now I will stick with my es300.

as for the ford, I hated it... but the car was 11 or 12 years old when I bought it... for $350. So I guess I shouldn't put much into the performance, or lack there-of that I got from it. I won't bash domestic cars, but I much prefer a Japanese car.
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Old 10th August 2006, 08:48   #5
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personally, i prefer american cars overall..
as you guys may remember, one of my friends owns a dodge neon, the fucking thing is rock solid and runs well, even after rear ending some asian bitch who didn't speak english, and stopped (for no reason i might add) too close to a train crossing guard resulting in the rear ending i mentioned (furthermore it looked like she was going to go through it, even though the gates were coming down)
dodge is in my opionion one hell of a car manufacturer and the construction that goes into their vehicles is top notch (even if it does take 4 hours to dismount the rear speakers in one of their cars) (in fact probably because of that fact, dodge puts the shit in their cars ON FUCKING LOCKDOWN, which results in sturdy construction throughout their vehicles)

i am a little biased however..
but even still the only thing i can think getting into my mom's hyundai "accent" is that the japanese guys who made it must have been talking in their board room and said something along the following lines : "we make car so small.. american head will touch the windshield!"
the little P.O.S. is in it's defense fairly reliable and easy to maintain though.

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Old 10th August 2006, 10:15   #6
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if I had buckets full of cash and wanted a high performance machine. I would go German. But I don't, so I go for the little shit car with insane gas mileage. Which means Japanese. Honda or Toyota will be my next car. Though, right now I do drive a Ford.

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Old 10th August 2006, 11:16   #7
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From a European market perspective:

Performance - German
Reliability - Japanese
Pricing - Korean

and
Styling - Italian
Comfort - French

Now if only those could be combined (plus economy and safety (as if anyone cared about those))...
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Old 10th August 2006, 21:13   #8
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German cars vs Japanese cars:

A coalition of British and American Cars would kick their asses just like it was 1945 again.
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Old 11th August 2006, 01:07   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by ElChevelle
Toyota tops the list in customer satisfaction this year, I heard on the news today.
Yeah, I think Toyota and Porsche trade places every few years for the top spot. The last ratings list I saw was 2004, I think.

The problem with "general" customer satisfaction results - either full composites or by brand - is that neither I nor anyone else buys "general cars", nor do we buy all the cars of a particular brand. (Unless you're an eccentric millionaire with a Mazda fetish.) If the Chrysler 300C rated highly, the Dodge Viper rated low, and Daimler-Chrysler's overall rating was mediocre, what does the overall rating matter if I want a 300C?

We buy cars in a particular rating group. For instance, in JD Power's "Executive/Luxury" group (the group I usually choose from), the top three this year (in order) are the Volvo V70, the BMW 5-Series and the Opel Omega. Those are ratings that mean something to me.

Unless someone is seeking a new car and doesn't care whether it's a full-sized luxury car, a compact economy car, an SUV or an exotic sports car, then composite ratings will mean very little to them. People seek cars of a certain type and price range. Therefore type ratings are much more meaningful. For instance, if I'm shopping for a mid-sized luxury touring sedan, I don't care how the Lincoln Navigator or the Dodge Viper rated. I'd rather see ratings that only compare mid-sized luxury touring sedans.


Grandma: "I thought you were going to buy a Chevy Malibu!"

Grandpa: "I was, but it turns out that the Corvette C6 had a higher customer satisfaction rating, so I bought it instead."

Grandma: "But where are the grandkids going to sit?"

Grandpa: "Umm...I don't know. But the customer satisfaction rating is great!



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Old 11th August 2006, 01:08   #10
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Ford owns Jaguar. So I guess that's a coalition of USA and British. Good performance and luxury, but they suck at reliability.

I choose USA made Japanese cars. I own two (Camry & Tundra). They do exactly what I want, when I want, and how I want. No more, no less. They give me utter perfection in matching my needs and wants in automobiles. They excel in all of your listed categories, in addition to my personal favorite: safety.

It's to the point where I would still say the same, even if I had more money to waste.

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Old 11th August 2006, 21:07   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by ScorLibran
I'm seriously considering trading my BMW 530i for a Mercedes S500 within a few months, although everyone I've talked to have said, "Don't!" Mercedes depreciate to an extreme, which is good for buying CPO, but not good for buying new and hoping to be right-side-up on the lein within two years. (Example, a $90,000 Mercedes in excellent condition can be had three-years-old for $35,000, while the same aged $55,000 BMW will run that amount.
I'll have to agree with the others and say no to Benz as well, but not solely because of the price. Mercedes Benz is just a shadow of it's past; today it is very unreliable and not that great in performance compared to a Honda or BMW & despite that they are severely overpriced. A couple of guys I know have owned one & they have experienced severe flaws with their Benz cars. One had cracks in the ceiling and it leaked badly while he was driving in the rain. The other just would not start at all; he had a lot of trouble figuring out what went wrong - the repair shop guys said that it was a problem with the anti-theft system & it cost him a lot to get it fixed. Besides the above, the Mercedes brand itself has become a failure - after they merged with Chrysler in 1998, they have incurred a loss of nearly $42 billion!

I would have to say be very careful if you're gonna buy a Mercedes Benz, because it's most likely to fail to live up to your expectations.
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Old 12th August 2006, 00:04   #12
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Diamler (Mercedes-Benz) fully owns the Chrysler Corporation now.

Technically speaking, Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep is considered by many to be no longer a USA-owned company.

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Old 12th August 2006, 10:05   #13
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Like I have always said (even to my Harlem Jigglesome riding friends)...

"Japs build the best shit"

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Old 12th August 2006, 16:49   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Triton4
I'll have to agree with the others and say no to Benz as well...
I'm hearing that pretty consistently from people I talk to (here in UT, back in GA, at work, on the internet, etc.) So I'm leaning towards doing one of two things... (1) Keeping my 530i and paying it off. It's been rock-solid reliable, I get a lot of people admiring the car even though it's five-years-old now, and having no car payment really rocks! (I don't own a car for people to admire, but the fact that they do so while I consider trading it tells me I might have "familiarity-blindness".) ...or (2) Trading it for perhaps a 550i.

I'd consider the Volvo V70, but I'm not going to have a station wagon. I consider station wagons to be "in-between" sedans and SUVs. Personally I'd rather buy a sedan and an SUV than a station wagon.

And since the V70 is a station wagon, that means the BMW 5-Series has the highest rating among luxury sedans. I think I'll just stick with what I've got.

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Old 12th August 2006, 19:32   #15
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Buy a C70 turbo coupe then.

Drove one last year - only inline 5-cylinder, 236 horsepower, but feels like about 300hp. Or instead of "C" (coupe) or "V" (wagon), buy an "S" (sedan) like the S40, S80, etc. Tons of power, luxury and second-to-none overall safety.

I love Volvos, my first car was a 1985 Volvo 240 turbo sedan, but I just don't want to spend that much for a car right now, and, volvo reliability, while great, still isn't as good as Toyota, plus parts and service centers are hard to find if you don't live in a big city.

One last thought about Volvos...

The POPE HIMSELF drives one!
(XC-90 sport utility vehicle with a V8 under the hood, altered to have bullet-proof exterior).

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Old 12th August 2006, 19:40   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by swingdjted
The POPE HIMSELF drives one!
In that case, get a '99 Volkwagen Golf.
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Old 1st October 2006, 18:27   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Too-DAMN-Much
personally, i prefer american cars overall..
as you guys may remember, one of my friends owns a dodge neon, the fucking thing is rock solid and runs well, even after rear ending some asian bitch who didn't speak english, and stopped (for no reason i might add) too close to a train crossing guard resulting in the rear ending i mentioned (furthermore it looked like she was going to go through it, even though the gates were coming down)
dodge is in my opionion one hell of a car manufacturer and the construction that goes into their vehicles is top notch (even if it does take 4 hours to dismount the rear speakers in one of their cars) (in fact probably because of that fact, dodge puts the shit in their cars ON FUCKING LOCKDOWN, which results in sturdy construction throughout their vehicles)
Having driven a Dodge Neon recently, I gotta agree with you fully. It's an amazing car, yet underrated because of the influence of Ford and Chevy (despite the crap that they build). Material/Interior quality was OK, but the performance was top-notch. Handled very well even when I was driving at 80-90mph , steering and braking were perfect. I also drove through a mountain road (no lane markings or signposts - both ways on a narrow single lane & no proper road pavement, drove on gravel and sand!!!) it performed very well. All-in-all, it was as good as the Nissan Sentra (both V4 engines), but I felt the interior of the Sentra was better.
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Old 1st October 2006, 19:21   #18
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Performance - Jap
Reliability - German/Jap
Price - Eastern European brand owned by a Western brand, ie Skoda or Dacia.
Stile - Italian or French
Comfort - Citroen without any doubt or question
Fun (ie the thing that makes your hart buy a car) - French or Italian
Build Quality - German
Materials used (Quality of interior platics and bodywork) - German
Credibility (How well respected are thease on the street) - German, Italian or French
Logical Design (ie Things are where they should be) - Eastern Euro owned by Western Euro and German.

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Old 2nd October 2006, 11:24   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by ScorLibran

If the Chrysler 300C rated highly, the Dodge Viper rated low, and Daimler-Chrysler's overall rating was mediocre, what does the overall rating matter if I want a 300C?

A Chrysler 300?!

That thing is crap in a candy wrapper.

I've heard so many nightmare stories about that car to consider it a scam by the company.
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Old 2nd October 2006, 11:59   #20
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crap in a candy wrapper beaten with an ugly stick

"Give me the BIGGEST grill and the BIGGEST wheels you got! No, I don't care if it looks totally ridiculous."
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Old 2nd October 2006, 15:28   #21
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Clarkson described the 300C estate as "Like Driving a Duvet".

I think thats the nicest thing he has ever said about a Chrysler.

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Old 3rd October 2006, 02:53   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Omega X
A Chrysler 300?!

That thing is crap in a candy wrapper.

I've heard so many nightmare stories about that car to consider it a scam by the company.
I said If. If the Chrysler 300C rated highly. I was speaking hypothetically to create an example.

(An outlandish one, granted. I've never been impressed with Chrysler. Or Mercedes*, for that matter. They deserve each other.)



* - yes, I considered a MB before I bought my new BMW. But I didn't buy the Mercedes for the same reason I've never bought one: I've never been impressed with them. And their build quality has really slid downhill in the past few years.
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Old 3rd October 2006, 09:45   #23
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Old Mercs rock, 1980's and back vintage Mercs are the best second hand luxury saloon you can buy (Except a Roller, but there a lot more common than Rollers).

The rot started with the M Class, bad pannel fit and stodgy handling in a car that Mercedies made purly to appeal to trendwhores. Thease days the only reason to buy a Merc is your a Drug dealer who isnt rich enough to buy a Bentley.

Actualy, there is the S class... ..somthing like 80% of world governments use them for transporting there leaders and Diplomats.

And then theres Dictators, the ONLY car you can drive as a dictator is a Mercedies.

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Old 3rd October 2006, 20:47   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by ScorLibran
I said If. If the Chrysler 300C rated highly. I was speaking hypothetically to create an example.

(An outlandish one, granted. I've never been impressed with Chrysler. Or Mercedes*, for that matter. They deserve each other.)
I knew it was an example. Its just that the Chrysler comment triggered my disgust button.

A Chrysler 300 is a giant con by Daimler-Chrysler. (Just like Mitsubishi cars with garbage engines...Since Mitsubishi deals with Chrysler, its not hard to visualize.)
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Old 3rd October 2006, 21:09   #25
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Mitsubishi engines increased the life expectancy and reliability ratings (and therefore resale values) of chrysler corp. vehicles such as eagle talon, dodge caravan, dodge stealth, etc.

Although, having said that, I would still never buy them.

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Old 3rd October 2006, 22:02   #26
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Formula 1 - Renault (French) & Ferrari
Ralley - 2005 Results Citroen (French)
Touring Car world Championchip - Lead by BMW with SEAT (Spanish, owned by VW) in second, third and anougher BMW forth.

The only one the Japs have been winning is the Paris Dakar, which is my fave of any race.

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Old 3rd October 2006, 23:17   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by dodo1
Awesome discussion.
The Japanese wins championships with their cars, and that tells the story (The german dont win at all).


The Japanese do build great quality cars. And they're rated up there with German cars when price is taken into account. I believe overall that many German cars offer better quality (BMW and Porsche, to be specific), except they also cost more which affects their overall ratings (as it should).

And German cars don't win at all?

Once more for good measure:

Some references to BMW's racing results...
http://www.bmwworld.com/racing/index.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/1453143.stm

And some references to BMW's quality...
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/06/20/s...006-announced/

http://www.jdpa.com/studies_jdpower/...asp?ID=2005088

I shopped them all, bud. And (recently, in fact) I bought the very best luxury sports car my $45,000 could possibly get me. It's the same process I use every time - give a wide variety of options due diligence and careful consideration. I've owned BMWs exclusively for 12 years - after thoroughly researching many different options before every purchase. Quality-per-dollar and the perfect blend of luxury and performance are my main criteria. Japanese cars provide great quality-per-dollar. And several models offer great performance. But unfortunately there are no Japanese luxury cars.

I've tried many Acuras, Lexuses and Infinitis, and they all still feel like Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans, respectively. Nothing wrong with the latter three makes - I've owned several of each - but they're just not luxury cars.

But overall there are a lot of great cars out there. And many are made by Japanese automakers. As well as American, French, Italian, South Korean, etc. There's rarely a single best car in any particular category. But there are some automakers that offer consistently good choices.

As they used to say, "No one ever got fired for buying IBM." I'd say, "No one ever regretted buying a BMW."

The only people I've ever known who said they didn't like BMWs couldn't afford one (rationalizing) or have never driven one (lacking experience).
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Old 3rd October 2006, 23:26   #28
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Or ones who rate comfort over performance.
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Old 3rd October 2006, 23:36   #29
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Actually I rate BMWs as better in the comfort department as well. That's a VERY subjective area, though. Everyone's body is different, so what they consider comfortable is different.

After I had back surgery ten years ago, I'd go sit in my 325i when my back hurt because the seats gave me extremely good support, and my back would feel better after 20 minutes or so.

It's also a matter of familiarization...I'm more comfortable in BMWs because that's what I've owned for many years. But before I bought my first one, I remember trying out Mercedes and a few other makes, and none were nearly as comfortable as the BMW.

And they win the ergonomics category also (as long as you have one without I-Drive...ugh). The features and controls are very logically designed and easy to use.

Top quality design and construction - but for a price.

The only reason I'd buy anything other than a BMW would be to spend less money.

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Old 4th October 2006, 01:37   #30
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With the risk of no one agreeing with me, I haven't sat in any car that was as comfortable (at a standstill) as the 1980's and 1990's volvo 240 series cars.

While driving they were a bit stiff for performance/safety, but the seats and controls/pedals/steering wheel were superior in placement, shape, size, texture, and density in my opinion.

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Old 4th October 2006, 05:57   #31
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Scor, is it true that you will get free maintenance for the first 4 years, or the first 50k miles on your brand new BMW? That's a cool offer.
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Old 4th October 2006, 18:10   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by dodo1
Awesome discussion.
The Japanese wins championships with their cars, and that tells the story (The german dont win at all).

For example Rally Championships:
Mitsubishi takes it in every element:
1. Performance
2. Reliability
3. Pricing
As you said. The germans are expensive and worse.
Where the hell is that quality when there cars are sold here?
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Old 4th October 2006, 18:23   #33
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They probably have a racing division that's got nothing to do with the rest of the company.
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Old 4th October 2006, 23:53   #34
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Where did you guys find unreliable mitsubishis?. Nobody I ever knew that owned one had much trouble. And if they do break, Mitsubishi parts are pretty cheap.

There are still a lot of Talons and Lasers on the street with 200,000 miles on the clock.

I think Mitsubishis are the easiest cars to work on that I ever wrenched.
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Old 5th October 2006, 02:52   #35
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Quote:
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Scor, is it true that you will get free maintenance for the first 4 years, or the first 50k miles on your brand new BMW? That's a cool offer.
Absolutely. It's part of the deal when you buy any new BMW. For the first 4 years/50K miles all I have to pay for is tires and fuel.

More and more automakers are starting to offer paid maintenance, in fact.

Also, I get free a lifetime subscription to BMW Assist, which is like GM's OnStar service. The car has a GPS unit built into it which is used for lo-jack tracking if the car's stolen and for finding me if I'm in an accident and am incapacitated. If any airbag has been deployed, BMW Assist is automatically contacted with my exact location, and they'll know which airbag(s) have been deployed - telling them how many people are in the car. Then they immediately send help to wherever I am, without me having to lift a finger.

And I've also got the "SOS" button on the overhead console which I can use to call BMW Assist manually to get driving directions, phone number and address lookup, or to find the nearest fuel station, hotel, airport or restaurant - complete with Zagat's ratings and menu information. They'll even make reservations on my behalf for hotels, restaurants, rental cars or airline tickets. It somewhat supplants the need for a navigation system - which I didn't get because it's so frikkin' easy to find your way around in Utah anyway. (And because BMW's I-Drive interface still needs tweaking to make it right.)

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Old 5th January 2011, 14:44   #36
Das Mann
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German but with caveat

My German cars have always be reliable and mechanic friendly. I have owned them all except Porsche, which makes no financial sense to me when the insurance bill comes in.

With lottery winnings in hand (yeah, right), I would probably walk into the nearest Toyota dealership. I have had a Camry and it ran like a top... until the day it died at a quarter million miles.

I would take an old-version Bug any day of the week.

The junk? Mazda. I had a family member who was a mechanic and got them for free or for little, and they were never reliable, comfortable or saleable when that time came.

Long story short, for economy I drive Japanese higher end cars, for comfort and resale mid-level German cars.
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Old 5th January 2011, 22:38   #37
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anybody tell you , you just replied to a thread that has been dead since 2006

It brings back memories since triton and scor haven't been around for years.

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Old 6th January 2011, 01:25   #38
Too-DAMN-Much
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yeah newfags do that from time to time.

what is up with scor slackin anyway? almost as bad as chev (didn't mention triton since i can't really recall many, if any of his posts)

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Old 11th January 2011, 09:47   #39
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Can't go wrong with a German or a Japanese car as far as I'm concerned, when it comes to manufacturing they're both still top of the game (don't care how old this thread is btw...)
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Old 11th January 2011, 15:05   #40
swingdjted
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Your post is without substance and your sig screams spam.

Don't forget to live before you die.
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