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Old 16th June 2013, 21:55   #281
Aminifu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koopa View Post
Not if you are using build 3432, that's the version which is on winamp.com

Will think about the Essentials Pack files.
As for the Essentials Pack plug-ins, I apologize. I've been using them for so long I forgot where some of them came from. When I took a peek inside those 3 with a hex editor, I see that Nullsoft is listed as the developer.

Maybe we are not talking about the same thinktink plug-in. I can't find it on the main site. I do see 5 of his other plug-ins.

The version of embededart.w5s I'm using is 1.0.38. The latest is 1.0.49 (link below). What build 3432 are you referring to? Can you provide a link?

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=357457

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Old 16th June 2013, 21:58   #282
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Winamp Info Tool 4.1.3432 fixed the bug, that bpembededart.w5s was mistakenly marked with a star. That's the public Info Tool version which is also available on Winamp.com

You probably used an older version of the tool, which still had the bug.
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Old 16th June 2013, 22:00   #283
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Oh, sorry again. Another update to the Info Tool that I missed.

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Old 16th June 2013, 22:04   #284
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Nothing to worry, really. I need people with a good eye like you for testing

I had a PortugueseBR language update and made a newer build with that fix before I uploaded it to winamp.com, I thought nobody would notice the fix, so it's more my bad than yours.

-Chris
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Old 16th June 2013, 22:19   #285
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Being a little sneaky, heh.

And I'm trying so hard to stay current (was using 3431), but as you say no worries.

Looks like Nullsoft is being a little sneaky too. Putting their name on those Essential Pack plug-ins, but leaving them in 3rd party limbo.

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Old 16th June 2013, 22:27   #286
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sneaky is how those w5s get to be around...
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Old 16th June 2013, 22:48   #287
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Good point, DrO.

Keep being sneaky!

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Old 16th June 2013, 22:54   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batter Pudding View Post
Maybe the "almost official" Essentials Pack needs a different symbol. A (+) is almost a (*)?

Looks like I may have opened a can of worms with my suggestion... Now we have black lists, white lists and kind of murky grey lists...
I suggest not introducing a grey area. Leave it official and un-official.

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Old 17th June 2013, 21:58   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
I suggest not introducing a grey area. Leave it official and un-official.
I fully agree with you.

There will be a 4.2 release soon. My apologies to the translators, but there won't be many language related changes (9 strings).

Originally I planed a 4.1.1 minor update, but it makes no sense to hold the other changes back, I just have to maintain 2 different versions and must port back things from one to the other.

-Chris
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Old 18th June 2013, 22:23   #290
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hi Koopa,

forgive me if any of this has already been gone over...

i'd like to suggest that some basic ML stats be reported. essentially the following:

total number of media files
total audio files
total video files
total format types, and what they are
# of files representing/under each format type

this would be helpful in the tool, so the troubleshooters wouldn't have to solicit the info. knowing how big a library is, and what formats are involved, can be a nice clue, or even key.

anyway, great job with the info tool. it really is all grown up.

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Old 18th June 2013, 22:39   #291
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A small library section with the file size of the database files and the amount of files in the database etc would be really useful.

I will look into it, but I'm using an external tool, so I'm not able to use Winamp APIs to catch these infos (same like with the old version number problem), I have to use an own NDE reader or somehting like this.

Will speak with DrO about it and try to work on it, but I make one thing clear, there is no ETA and it's also possible, that I cannot implement it.

-Chris
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Old 18th June 2013, 22:50   #292
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I couldn't ask for more, thx. my fingers are crossed you'll work it out like u did the ver issue.

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Old 18th June 2013, 22:58   #293
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Thanks for your trust, makes me feel even more bad, when I fail

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you'll work it out like u did the ver issue.
Well, that was DrO he has updated all Nullsoft Plugins to store a version resource.

-Chris
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Old 19th June 2013, 02:47   #294
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indeed, DrO AND you (imo) both deserve credit for getting that fixed.

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Old 20th June 2013, 07:57   #295
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sorry to keep picking at this...

could you possibly list the official plugins this way:

(*) dsp_sps.dll

or something like that so you can very quickly visually scan vertically to find unofficial plugins? (obviously, those missing the (*) stuff)

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Old 20th June 2013, 08:36   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
sorry to keep picking at this...

could you possibly list the official plugins this way:

(*) dsp_sps.dll

or something like that so you can very quickly visually scan vertically to find unofficial plugins? (obviously, those missing the (*) stuff)
IMHO - The stars seem very clear as they are. While not disrupting the actual alphabetical layout of the overall document. With the plugin names still coming first it looks more aesthetically pleasing and keeps a neater looking balance to the page.

I have no idea what is an official plugin or not - but the first time I saw the report with the stars added it my unofficial plugins stood out very quickly to me. The stars seemed to do a perfect job while not disrupting the look on the main report.
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Old 20th June 2013, 09:27   #297
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well, what can I say, I disagree. I think it is harder to find the one plugin that doesn't have the indication when all the others do, (when its not vertically aligned). and whether the star is first or not would not impact the ordering. also, to me, its less 'visually pleasing' to have a set symbol, ie. (*) appear unaligned when it could otherwise easily be so, (exactly b/c its a set size).

is it a huge deal? no. but I think it is worth doing, as it will put emphasis on the ones NOT having the symbol esp to noobs, since the unofficial ones are the ones likely to be at issue, and it will make it more intuitive for them to spot.

official plugins btw are only the ones that actually come with winamp's installer itself, (afaik).

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Old 20th June 2013, 10:02   #298
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I expect Koopa tried out a few different layouts. I just think that this:
Quote:
in_nsv.dll(*)
> Version: 1.73 | Size: 74 KB <

in_swf.dll(*)
> Version: 1.12 | Size: 24 KB <

in_vorbis.dll(*)
> Version: 1.73 | Size: 250 KB <

in_wav.dll
> Version: - | Size: 16 KB <

in_wave.dll(*)
> Version: 3.22 | Size: 24 KB <

in_wm.dll(*)
> Version: 3.74 | Size: 308 KB <

in_wv.dll
> Version: - | Size: 136 KB <
Looks so much better than this:
Quote:
(*)in_nsv.dll
> Version: 1.73 | Size: 74 KB <

(*)in_swf.dll
> Version: 1.12 | Size: 24 KB <

(*)in_vorbis.dll
> Version: 1.73 | Size: 250 KB <

in_wav.dll
> Version: - | Size: 16 KB <

(*)in_wave.dll
> Version: 3.22 | Size: 24 KB <

(*)in_wm.dll
> Version: 3.74 | Size: 308 KB <

in_wv.dll
> Version: - | Size: 136 KB <
With the star at the front you then have a list that keeps dipping in and out again. It makes the layout wobbly and disrupts a natural flow of the text. Especially if you are skim reading it. From an OCD point of view it just looks messy. The alignment should be based around the important text - especially as it fits in with the over all document much better then. (As well as making it easier for other scripts to process this text automatically)

That star to the right of the name is a pretty large emphasis on its own. When I see the star there I read it as a TICK. And it just feels natural. IMHO - Koopa has this bang right. Nice, clean, simple.

And I am pretty sure that will even stand out to the noobs as they are likely to look at the list and say "what's that star for?"

I don't understand your "official plugins" note. Was that aimed at me? Of course I know what official plugins are, I just don't memorise the names of them. This is why I suggested adding the feature to Koopa's tool as I was reading reports on the forum, but not having the time to go find a list of official plugins to compare with. Seeing mention of Whitelists\Blacklists made me realise Koopa already had a list to hand of the "good guys" which meant it would be easy to flag them in the report. Common sense really.
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Old 20th June 2013, 10:09   #299
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agree with Batter Pudding.
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Old 20th June 2013, 10:13   #300
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again, I disagree (BP). first of all, i'd put a space between the symbol and the plugin name. secondly, you could indent the unofficial ones with just spaces, (so they would align plugin names either way) and they'd really pop out then. a text file gives the same space for any character, so you could get really nice alignments.

I didn't suggest this out of the blue. in another thread, I had to scan several times to find the ONE unofficial plugin the guy had. it would have taken only one, quicker scan if it were in front.

again, i'll live either way, its just a suggestion. perhaps preference worthy?

and yes, you said you had no idea what was or wasn't an official plugin, so I gave my definition.

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Old 20th June 2013, 10:13   #301
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I tried a lot of variants.

The indicator is only meant for people, who give tech support and are not 100% sure, if a file is an official plugin/component or a 3rd party component.
Though that list is based on a white list and simply could be wrong, if a 3rd party plugin shares the same file name with a Nullsoft plugin.

Most important is the file name. I see your point, it would be more comfortable, if you'd only see the indicator at first, but then people could become lazy, see the star at first and don't read the file name etc.

I also don't like how it looks when it starts with the stars. So I agree with BP here.

But this all doesn't matter, once I've finished my work on the zip functionality.

Btw, dsp_sc.dll will be marked as official Plugin too, but in general you are right, anything shipped with the current Winamp releases will be marked as official.

The upcomming 4.2 release will add one empty space after the file name and the (*).

in_nsv.dll (*)
Version: 1.73 | Size: 74 KB



-Chris
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Old 20th June 2013, 10:18   #302
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that's interesting, regarding the sc dsp. yes, it is an official plugin, but it can be the source of problems. I wonder if safe mode disables it?

I am torn if the info tool should report it as official? maybe it should have a unique symbol?

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Old 20th June 2013, 10:20   #303
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No idea about safe mode, DrO can give you an answer.

But the plugin is hosted by Nullsoft and gets full tech support in the SHOUTcast forums. So I'd call it 'official'.
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Old 20th June 2013, 10:29   #304
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I agree, its just that its the only official one I know of that isn't in the installer. and it can be the cause of problems as well, moreso than other official plugins imo. and IF it is deactivated by safe mode, unlike other official plugins, then I could see a case for giving it a unique ** or something like that, just to call attn to it. but np, i'm just thinking out loud.

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Old 20th June 2013, 10:34   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
again, I disagree (BP).
We can't all be the same. Disagreements lead to discussions lead to perfection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
first of all, i'd put a space between the symbol and the plugin name. secondly, you could indent the unofficial ones with just spaces, (so they would align plugin names either way) and they'd really pop out then. a text file gives the same space for any character, so you could get really nice alignments.
Text files are raw text. It is up to the software used to view it as to how it is formatted. Use something like Notepad, which is default on the average home PC, and that font can be changed. When sitting on PCs of home users I see that font changes to some very weird choices which certainly don't stay with the fixed-pitch fonts. I have even seen some weird people change the defaults to Impact - or even worse the evil Comic Sans! Try reading the report in those fonts. LoL!!

Similar when posting to this forum - the font choices are available to change what is posted.

Trying to pad with spaces like you are suggesting will lead to some very weird looking reports on some people's computers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
I didn't suggest this out of the blue. in another thread, I had to scan several times to find the ONE unofficial plugin the guy had. it would have taken only one, quicker scan if it were in front.
It's okay. I didn't assume you were just suggesting this to be awkward. But we all scan read documents in different ways. Maybe you need to tweak the fonts you are using at your end? Personally I now use Notepad++ as default for my text documents. The stars stood out really well for me in there the first time I speed read a report. And just as clear when pasted here in the forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
again, i'll live either way, its just a suggestion. perhaps preference worthy?
The more preferences you add to a program, the more likely you will be introducing bugs as it just leads to more paths to test on every release. IMHO we want to keep the reports as identical to each other as possible to make it easier to compare systems side by side. If everyone is creating custom reports it kills one of the main uses.

Also remember, 99% of users will only ever create one report for us to check on the forum. They are not really going to be any people out there creating daily reports of their copies of Winamp. This Tool is for when things go wrong. If each report posted here had stars jumping backwards and forwards front to back it will loose its quick skim readability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
and yes, you said you had no idea what was or wasn't an official plugin, so I gave my definition.
I think you mis-read what I was meaning. The point of the original request was because I didn't know the filenames of the plugins by heart. I obviously know what a plugin is and the difference between Official, Semi-Official and Third-Party. As can be seen if you read the conversations above
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Old 20th June 2013, 10:37   #306
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that's interesting, regarding the sc dsp. yes, it is an official plugin, but it can be the source of problems. I wonder if safe mode disables it?

I am torn if the info tool should report it as official? maybe it should have a unique symbol?
Errr... silly question as I don't use Shoutcast. But surely if this one plugin is sometimes a problem then by it being one plugin it is already "unique" and doesn't really need another symbol to it.

Like the response to my suggestion above about "grey lists" for the Enhancement Pack - this needs to stay simple. Too many different symbols and the clarity gets lost again.

If the sc dsp is installed by the official installer then therefore by definition it is official. Seems logical to me.
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Old 20th June 2013, 10:42   #307
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offical is anything provided either as part of the main installer or from Nullsoft.

the Source DSP can be counted as official under that definition and will be receiving an update so it is loadable in safe mode (which is only intended for running _official_ plug-ins - hence jtfe not being loaded under safe mode).
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Old 20th June 2013, 10:47   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koopa View Post
I tried a lot of variants.
I can imagine how many weird and funky variations you tried out. I notice the solution you picked is also cleverly using symbols instead of words that needed translating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koopa View Post
But this all doesn't matter, once I've finished my work on the zip functionality.
How many pages back do I need to scroll to find out this "zip functionality?" I am just curious because I don't trust noobie posters. If a zip file of html is being posted then I'm not going to be downloading them.

Out of curiosity, what does one of your HTML style reports look like when copy and pasted into HTML tags in one of these posts?

If things went too far towards HTML then the noobie luser who barely knows how to copy and paste is certainly not going to know how to open an html file in notepad to be able to copy and paste it. (Many home users I meet don't even know what copy and paste IS).
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Old 20th June 2013, 10:47   #309
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DrO: I hope you add the version resource to it.

gen_jumpex is marked as official in info Tool as well, because it's part of the Nullsoft installer. :P

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I can imagine how many weird and funky variations you tried out. I notice the solution you picked is also cleverly using symbols instead of words that needed translating.
Yeah, simple and no need for any language string that was the plan.
Scary that you figured that out, really lol

Quote:
Out of curiosity, what does one of your HTML style reports look like when copy and pasted into HTML tags in one of these posts?
The sticky thread explains how to create and upload a report. And honestly people always should upload it as an attachment instead of copying the stuff directly in a posting, which results in endless scrolling.

HTML is much more easy to read and I have a lot more possibilities to present stuff than in a raw txt file.
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Old 20th June 2013, 10:53   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
offical is anything provided either as part of the main installer or from Nullsoft.

the Source DSP can be counted as official under that definition and will be receiving an update so it is loadable in safe mode (which is only intended for running _official_ plug-ins - hence jtfe not being loaded under safe mode).
That makes sense to me. So I guess that Koopa has sent his Whitelist to you for checking over.


Koopa - does this mean you have more than one Whitelist? A whitelist per Winamp version? In the last few releases of Winamp some of the plugins have been killed off. Example being Orgler. Technically this is now not an official plugin for v5.64 and v5.7. Yet it was correctly official for v5.63. And then there is the "special case" of the Crasher plugin which ships with the betas.

MrS - can you see how much of a minefield even something simple like this is? Keeping a Whitelist per Winamp version is tricky. Yet having to then have "specials" for those lists will become a minefield as anything "special" will need testing way back into previous versions. Even "simple" additions can quickly get out of hand.
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Old 20th June 2013, 10:58   #311
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I guess that Koopa has sent his Whitelist to you for checking over.
Not really, I know all official plugins/system components. When I see the file name I can tell you if it's offical or not.
Only for the upcomming 4.2 release I asked DrO/Egg which dll files in Winamp's root dir are part of the installer.

Quote:
Koopa - does this mean you have more than one Whitelist? A whitelist per Winamp version? In the last few releases of Winamp some of the plugins have been killed off. Example being Orgler. Technically this is now not an official plugin for v5.64 and v5.7. Yet it was correctly official for v5.63.
Currently not, Plugins which were killed from Nullsoft are no longer supported and so not offical anymore. hey it's very easy for us, because the only supported Winamp version is...hmmm...latest!

But it would be simply possible to create whitelists based on different Winamp versions. if it's needed someday, I will add such stuff.

Quote:
And then there is the "special case" of the Crasher plugin which ships with the betas.
Nothing special, marked as offical.

MrSinatra:

I can add an ini file option for you if you want, so you can have the stars at first. But the default setting will be like it is now.
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Old 20th June 2013, 11:04   #312
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Quote:
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DrO: I hope you add the version resource to it.
yes.
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gen_jumpex is marked as official in info Tool as well, because it's part of the Nullsoft installer. :P
which is fine as it falls under the options i mentioned. it's only safe mode (which is specifically Nullsoft plug-ins where i see a distinction).
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Old 20th June 2013, 11:06   #313
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Quote:
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Not really, I know all official plugins, when I see the file name.
The man with the photographic memory. As you write plugins I can see why you are more used to the names. I am too busy using Winamp to dig into the grotty bits too often. Can't resist having a look now and then though.

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Currently not, Plugins which were killed from Nullsoft are no longer supported and so not offical anymore. hey it's very easy for us, because the only supported Winamp version is...hmmm...latest!
Ahh... so I expect the next improvement will be to add flashing lights and sirens to the report when it is noticed that the user is not running the latest version... Yeah - I'm joking

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But it would be simple possible to create whitelists based on different Winamp versions. if it's needed someday, I will add such stuff.
It was more of a thought that fell off the back of my head. Apologies for being too much of a stubborn tester \ ex-dev as my mind tends to jump around looking for all possible loop-holes. And knowing what Noobies are like for using old versions and not actually reading the support suggestions I could see things like Orgler being marked as non-official now when previously it was official.

I agree with you though - the tool needs to prioritise the latest version as that is what users should be installing.
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Old 20th June 2013, 11:09   #314
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Ahh... so I expect the next improvement will be to add flashing lights and sirens to the report when it is noticed that the user is not running the latest version... Yeah - I'm joking
hehe, not really, it's just that tables, the ability to center things, add links etc is more easy to read.

And compare the stars from TXT and HTML.

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And if you translate the player, or are beta tester for many years, you will learn it.
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Old 20th June 2013, 11:26   #315
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Scary that you figured that out, really lol
When I was a dev I was handling about a dozen languages. Including the fun of Japanese. Trying to get Dialog Boxes to fit English, German and Japanese was often "fun". Such different lengths of text!! A nice neat little (*) is the same size in every language.

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The sticky thread explains how to create and upload a report. And honestly people always should upload it as an attachment instead of copying the stuff directly in a posting, which results in endless scrolling.
I can see the logic, but have you seen what kids of today are like for reading and following instructions? The sticky thread is quite long and I can see why people just half read and get confused with the technical stuff it it, then post the text into a thread. I really should introduce you to some of the ID-10T users I have on my books and you'd be amazed at the lack of knowledge they have - and yet they manage to use a PC. Quite amazing some people really.

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HTML is much more easy to read and I have a lot more possibilities to present stuff than in a raw txt file.
I totally understand the clarity and readability side of HTML. Trouble is I'm just weird as to how I handle security. Even HTML emails I only use with people I know. Most of my email accounts are set to display text only email.

I can understand why you'd do these as HTML, especially for your own use. Trouble is it just means I won't be downloading them to check over if I don't know the user on the forum. I'll leave that to someone else. I'd only want to load up the raw text into notepad++. I don't have the time to check over an HTML file to make sure there are no links or scripts sneaked into it before I view it.

Yeah - this is just me being weird. But that is how I handle my security.

To be honest, most of my support on here aims at the computer and not the plugins. So I'll leave the plugin checking to other people in future.
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Old 20th June 2013, 11:50   #316
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Not trying to be awkward - but has anyone read the "Things you must do before asking for support" thread lately? It is HUGE. And not surprising it gets skipped. Especially with the tl;dr generation.

IMHO it would make more sense to get the important "1. Information required when posting (ignore this at the risk of being ignored)" right up at the top of that page. Then there is more chance of it being read.

If you sit down and time how long it takes to read just that thread, not including the linked pages, you will see why many people give up reading it.

(Maybe this is a comment for the WishList section and not the InfoTool thread... I'm only trying to think of the average home user and their lack of patience. Look at that berk over on the thread about not being able to play MP3s... he didn't read any of the sticky post and when people tried to point him that way he just became bizarrely childish. There are some strange users out there now... )
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Old 20th June 2013, 14:11   #317
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I'd like to clarify the difference between "safe" and "official" plugins.
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offical is anything provided either as part of the main installer or from Nullsoft.
However, not every official plugin is loaded in safe mode. (eg. gen_jumpex)
Somebody (I guess it's DrO at the moment) decides what plugins are "safe", based on some unpublished criteria.

Therefore, "safe mode plugin list" is not necessarily the same as "official plugin list".

I am not complaining, only trying to make this clear for all the report readers and problem solvers.

Windows 10 Home, 64 bit, Winamp 5.666, Bento Skin
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Old 20th June 2013, 14:17   #318
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the point of the report and it's asterisk is to distinguish official vs 3rd party.

Winamp's safe mode is something that is unrelated to the needs of the tool and should not be factored in when making an official list (it just happens that most of what is deemed official happens to run in safe mode).
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Old 20th June 2013, 14:26   #319
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Not quite sure how a conversation about "Safe Mode" for Winamp sneaked into a discussion about the Info Tool anyway. I think this all makes perfect sense, and the simpler it is kept the better.

Info Tool provides information. Along with a neat and easily comparable report.

Safe Mode provides a simplified place for testing and tracing issues.

Two very different worlds, which have some overlap but meant for different tasks.
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Old 20th June 2013, 14:27   #320
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Two very different worlds, which have some overlap but meant for different tasks.
yup
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