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Old 23rd January 2015, 13:47   #1
pbelkner
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Yet Another (WA)SAPI Output Plugin for Winamp (YASAPI)

The "Yet Another (WA)SAPI Output Plugin for Winamp" (YASAPI) utilizes the "Windows Audio Session API" (WASAPI). WASAPI's exclusive mode for rendering audio is a native way on Windows to render audio undisturbed, similar to Steinberg's "Audio Stream Input/Output" (ASIO). The YASAPI output plugin may serve as a replacement for any other Winamp output plugin.Please let me know whether it works for you and which problems you're facing.
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Old 23rd January 2015, 15:15   #2
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Causing major audio distortion at default 1.5x buffer. At max, 4.0x buffer, I get popping throughout the Bjork songs I tested with.
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Old 23rd January 2015, 15:43   #3
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At max, 4.0x buffer, I get popping throughout the Bjork songs I tested with.
In the configuration dialog, I've allowed temporarily the size of the ring buffer up to 10 times the minimal size of the buffer WASAPI shares with the audio device:
http://out-yasapi.sourceforge.net/up...sapi-0.1.1.exe
Could yo give it a try?
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Old 23rd January 2015, 16:25   #4
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At max, 4.0x buffer, I get popping throughout the Bjork songs I tested with.
In the meantime I also created a SSE2 version: http://out-yasapi.sourceforge.net/up...-sse2-0.1.1.7z
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Old 23rd January 2015, 18:43   #5
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Both versions of your plug-in fail to work in my configuration. When starting playback, I get a YASAPI error message that says "AUDCLNT_E_UNSUPPORTED_FORMAT". Then when I click ok, to acknowledge the error message, Winamp crashes leaving "winamp.exe" running in the background.

I think this happens because I'm using another plug-in just ahead of yours in my processing chain. This other plug-in (Matrix Mixer) up-samples the decoded mp3 stereo input signal (16bits@44.1KHz) to 24bits@96KHz (to match my soundcard driver format settings) and up-mixes the stereo channels to 6 channels (to match my soundcard driver channel settings for my 5.1 speaker system).

If I'm right, which part or parts of the input signal is/are not compatible with your plug-in?

I can let Windows do the up-sampling and up-mixing (to match my soundcard driver settings), but it didn't sound as good as when doing the processing in Winamp. Of course I can change my soundcard driver settings to match the source material, but I'd rather use the full capabilities of my soundcard and speakers. The only WASAPI plug-in I've found that worked for me (and provided the up-sampling and up-mixing that I want) is the abandoned "Maiko" output plug-in. I had to stop using Maiko because the last version released causes problems with the "Jump to File Extra" plug-in.

So I'm back to using Matrix Mixer and the official DirectSound output plug-in to get the processing that I want (what I was using before finding Maiko), but this combo only supports shared mode. Maiko's exclusive mode sounded noticeably better and I was hoping your plug-in would too.

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Old 23rd January 2015, 19:05   #6
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Originally Posted by pbelkner View Post
Got up to 4.9x buffer and Bjork stopped popping during playback. Even though I use FLAC, I'm not really an audiophile. So I am assuming the audio is not defected in any other obvious manner.

EDIT: Are there any plans to have the volume slider in Winamp work with YASAPI? I noticed that the out_asio plugin also does not have volume control. Is this just a limitation with these sorts of plugins?
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Old 24th January 2015, 04:54   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A11ectis View Post
Got up to 4.9x buffer and Bjork stopped popping during playback. Even though I use FLAC, I'm not really an audiophile. So I am assuming the audio is not defected in any other obvious manner.

EDIT: Are there any plans to have the volume slider in Winamp work with YASAPI? I noticed that the out_asio plugin also does not have volume control. Is this just a limitation with these sorts of plugins?
I increased my buffer to 5x as it was not playing at the default buffer size. It is working now - ploughing through my mp3 collections. No issues to report yet and using the sse2 version

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Old 24th January 2015, 16:17   #8
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v0.2.0

@all:

Many thanks for the valuable feedback!

Most likely the distortion and popping results from ring buffer underflow. That's why you could resolve this by simply enlarging the buffer. But there is not only the size which may lead to to the buffer drying out. The new version lets you configure some of the possiblities:


You have the following relation between the parameters regarding buffer sizes:
minimum size of the buffer shared with the device (provided by WASAPI) <= size of buffer shared with the device <= number of samples in the ring buffer before start playing <= size of ring buffer
Quote:
Originally Posted by A11ectis View Post
Are there any plans to have the volume slider in Winamp work with YASAPI? I noticed that the out_asio plugin also does not have volume control. Is this just a limitation with these sorts of plugins?
I think it is possible. The respective checkbox is already there

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
Both versions of your plug-in fail to work in my configuration. When starting playback, I get a YASAPI error message that says "AUDCLNT_E_UNSUPPORTED_FORMAT".
This is just a 1:1 report of an error resulting from a call to the IsFormatSupported method of the IAudioClient interface. It means that your audio device doesn't support the format (number of channels, sample frequency, bits per sample) you're going to play.

For convenience, here are the links to the new 0.2.0 version:
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Old 24th January 2015, 17:16   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbelkner View Post
@all:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
Both versions of your plug-in fail to work in my configuration. When starting playback, I get a YASAPI error message that says "AUDCLNT_E_UNSUPPORTED_FORMAT".
This is just a 1:1 report of an error resulting from a call to the IsFormatSupported method of the IAudioClient interface. It means that your audio device doesn't support the format (number of channels, sample frequency, bits per sample) you're going to play.
I get exactly the Same error Message, and the Maiko Wasapi plugin plays just fine. (using your in_ffsox too)

My Soundcard is configured as 5.1 and my MP3's of course are Stereo,
so in some way the error message would make sense,
but for the stereo upmixing there is a function from Creative called CMSS3D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_X-Fi#CMSS-3D
and even from Dolby called Dolby Digital Live or Dolby DTS.
and even the maiko wasapi plugin provides such a functionality (I personly Like this one the most)

I really like your in_ffsox plugin, it is working like a charm (except MP3 ID3 support )
but this plugin does not work for me

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Old 24th January 2015, 17:52   #10
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Originally Posted by ravermeister View Post
I get exactly the Same error Message, and the Maiko Wasapi plugin plays just fine.
In Maiko, do you use exclusive or shared mode?
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Old 24th January 2015, 18:22   #11
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currently I use exclusive mode,
but both of them are working

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Old 24th January 2015, 18:43   #12
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Hah, seems like I'm the only one without issues (yet). Bumped up the ring buffer to 5.0x from 4.9x after some further testing. Everything looks golden here.
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Old 24th January 2015, 18:50   #13
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v0.2.1

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Originally Posted by ravermeister View Post
I get exactly the Same error Message, and the Maiko Wasapi plugin plays just fine.(
Could you please try the new version? It not only provides the bare Component Object Model (COM) error but also the file and the line number where it occurs. Could you please let me know file and line number?
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Old 24th January 2015, 19:01   #14
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Hah, seems like I'm the only one without issues (yet).
Not to forget me
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Old 24th January 2015, 19:46   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbelkner View Post
This is just a 1:1 report of an error resulting from a call to the IsFormatSupported method of the IAudioClient interface. It means that your audio device doesn't support the format (number of channels, sample frequency, bits per sample) you're going to play.
How does your plug-in determine the audio device to use? I have more than one installed, but the one selected for Windows and in Winamp's DirectSound output plug-in (i.e. my soundcard) plays the up-sampled and up-mixed mp3 files just fine. I'm running Windows 7 and those links you provided are a bit over my head. Maybe I should try shared mode, but that would defeat my purpose.

I will wait for ravermeister's results before trying your latest version. Cleaning up after crashes is a bit of a hassle.

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Old 24th January 2015, 20:17   #16
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How does your plug-in determine the audio device to use?
  1. Via CoCreateInstance() it gets an IMMDeviceEnumerator (seems to work at your site).
  2. From the IMMDeviceEnumerator via GetDefaultAudioEndpoint() it gets the default IMMDevice (I assume that's the device you've configured via Control Panel -> Sound, seems to work at your site).
As far as I can see, there is no automatic up-sampling in WASAPI. When you look at Maiko, for example, it seems to do any DSP itself. On the contrary, YASAPI does not do any DSP (at least yet).
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Old 24th January 2015, 21:25   #17
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I was under the impression that the Windows control panel sound utility displays the formats (bit depth & sampling rate) that the audio device's driver supports and that WASAPI would up-sample or down-sample the source to match the format selected. If it doesn't that would explain why the sound quality was different from the up/down sampling done by the various Winamp plug-ins that provide it.

Windows also has a channel up-mixing feature (called speaker-fill, I think) if the audio driver supports it, but all this does is mirror the stereo channels to the other channels.

Matrix mixer (and Maiko) allows true automatic or manual matrix mixing of the stereo channels to the output channels (6 in 5.1 or 8 in 7.1 speaker setups). The stereo channels can be combined (in phase or either channel inverted to enhance or remove the identical sounds in each channel) at equal or various output levels and each combination directed to a particular output channel. Delays can be added to each channel as well. Bottom line, the stereo source can be morphed into a semblance of true multichannel surround sound where each output channel can provide something different. The effect can be extended by adding frequency equalizing or other DPS effects (with other plug-ins or soundcard utilities) before or after the mixing.

Movie soundtracks provide all this on their own, but it's fun playing sound engineer with stereo sources (making subtle or dramatic changes).

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Old 25th January 2015, 13:54   #18
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Hi, Here is the Screenshot of the new Version showing the error:


hope that helps,
Kind regards Raver

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Old 25th January 2015, 15:11   #19
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Hi, Here is the Screenshot of the new Version showing the error:
That's the proof: It's the call to IsFormatSupported() from the IAudioClient interface.

In shared mode it's not just an error but an alternate format is proposed (you can see it when you use the debug version). There are interfaces to transform the audio accordingly. But all that has to be done, it's not coming out of the box.
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Old 25th January 2015, 16:25   #20
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That's the proof of what, exactly?

Are you saying that your plug-in only accepts audio that is a PCM, 2 channel, 16bit, 44.1KHz signal? If not, how are the audio transforms to be accomplished? I don't understand what I'm supposed to do to have your plug-in work for me. Am I supposed to remove everything in the processing chain except for the input decoders and your output plug-in?

I'm looking for more than a bit perfect reproduction of the source file. If that is what your plug-in is designed to do, then that is prefectly fine for those who only want that. I guess I misunderstood the intent and it's just not suitable for me. So I'll stay with what I have and keep looking for another way to achive WASAPI exclusive mode support for up-sampled and up-mixed source files.

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Old 25th January 2015, 18:35   #21
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v0.3.0

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Originally Posted by A11ectis View Post
Are there any plans to have the volume slider in Winamp work with YASAPI? I noticed that the out_asio plugin also does not have volume control. Is this just a limitation with these sorts of plugins?
What's new?
  • Support for volume control.
  • Support for pull strategy.

For convenience, the relevant links:
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Old 26th January 2015, 17:00   #22
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What's new?
  • Support for volume control.
Awesome!

One other thing I've noticed is that, while Winamp is using YASAPI, other audio sources stop playing. This is a bit of a let down since most of my time using Winamp is also while playing a game on my PC, which I'd still like to be able to hear things in.
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Old 26th January 2015, 17:54   #23
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One other thing I've noticed is that, while Winamp is using YASAPI, other audio sources stop playing.
This is the expected behavior for "exclusive" mode (hence "exclusive" ). Do you also observe this in "shared" mode?
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Old 26th January 2015, 19:56   #24
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This is the expected behavior for "exclusive" mode (hence "exclusive" ). Do you also observe this in "shared" mode?
Well now I know what that option does, lol. May I ask what instances there are that would necessitate using exclusive mode?
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Old 27th January 2015, 03:07   #25
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Well now I know what that option does, lol. May I ask what instances there are that would necessitate using exclusive mode?
The ones who otherwise use ASIO (e.g. myself)
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Old 27th January 2015, 07:30   #26
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The ones who otherwise use ASIO (e.g. myself)
YASAPI 0.30 sse2 working fine for me. I have Winamp and a dsp plugin "Enhancer" and they are working fine for the time being. My buffer is 5.11x. I have occasional glitches in the audio but nothing which will stop the world. Keep you posted.

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Old 27th January 2015, 10:26   #27
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I still get the error window,
with the same error at a slightly different line.

I can post the screenshots later if it helps

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Old 27th January 2015, 11:39   #28
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YASAPI 0.30 sse2 working fine for me. I have Winamp and a dsp plugin "Enhancer" and they are working fine for the time being. My buffer is 5.11x. I have occasional glitches in the audio but nothing which will stop the world. Keep you posted.
Edit: Got some glitches on flac files. These got fixed when I increased the buffer to 6.11x. Do we have to increase the size of the other buffers in line too (ring buffer, etc)?

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Old 27th January 2015, 14:43   #29
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I still get the error window,
with the same error at a slightly different line.
Are you saying that some tracks work and others not? Do they have different frame rates?
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Old 27th January 2015, 15:10   #30
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Do we have to increase the size of the other buffers in line too (ring buffer, etc)?
I dont't know because I have one PC to test and it works.

However, we should imagine what's going on there:
  1. On one side there is WA delivering packets of sound at a rate which in mean represents the sample rate.
  2. The same is true for the WASAP side: it reads packets of another size and at another rate which also represents in mean the sample rate.
  3. We can conclude that in mean the ring buffer is empty. It just compensates for the different packet sizes. But there is still some probability that the buffer becomes empty, and we here glitches or pops.
  4. The mean number of frames in the buffer should never become zero. You may achieve this by increasing the "start playing ..." option. The "start playing ..." option means that when WASAPI takes the first packet from the buffer the number of frames in the buffer not becomes zero immediately (instead it approximately is the mean number of frames in the buffer).
I increased the "start playing ..." parameter to 2 and it works (which means nothing because for me it's working anyway).
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Old 28th January 2015, 06:37   #31
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Got this error when trying to play a certain album of MP3s:



Any idea what's up? No noticeable issues when YASAPI is disabled.
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Old 28th January 2015, 08:31   #32
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I dont't know because I have one PC to test and it works.

However, we should imagine what's going on there:
  1. On one side there is WA delivering packets of sound at a rate which in mean represents the sample rate.
  2. The same is true for the WASAP side: it reads packets of another size and at another rate which also represents in mean the sample rate.
  3. We can conclude that in mean the ring buffer is empty. It just compensates for the different packet sizes. But there is still some probability that the buffer becomes empty, and we here glitches or pops.
  4. The mean number of frames in the buffer should never become zero. You may achieve this by increasing the "start playing ..." option. The "start playing ..." option means that when WASAPI takes the first packet from the buffer the number of frames in the buffer not becomes zero immediately (instead it approximately is the mean number of frames in the buffer).
I increased the "start playing ..." parameter to 2 and it works (which means nothing because for me it's working anyway).

Thank you. I will increase the "start playing" parameter and see what this changes. Thanks for the prompt reply

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Old 28th January 2015, 13:06   #33
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Got this error when trying to play a certain album of MP3s:



Any idea what's up? No noticeable issues when YASAPI is disabled.
When you get this error YASAPI is indeed enabled (no chance you get this when YASAPI is disabled).

You get this under the same circumstances you get AUDCLNT_E_UNSUPPORTED_FORMAT. Both result from a call to the IsFormatSupported() method of the IAudioClient interface:
  • when you get S_FALSE you are most likely in shared mode, and
  • when you get AUDCLNT_E_UNSUPPORTED_FORMAT you are most likely in exclusive mode.
You should get rid of the S_FALSE in shared mode when the format under Control Panel -> Sound (in Windows) is configured to mach the format of your audio (especially the sample frequency).
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Old 28th January 2015, 16:14   #34
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You should get rid of the S_FALSE in shared mode when the format under Control Panel -> Sound (in Windows) is configured to mach the format of your audio (especially the sample frequency).
I always make sure the Windows Sound utility's format setting matches what is being output by Winamp. But as I said before, the format that is output does not match the format of the source file. Does your plug-in read (and pass on) the format of the source file or the format that is passed to it by other plug-ins ahead of it in the processing chain?

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Old 28th January 2015, 16:49   #35
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Does your plug-in read (and pass on) the format of the source file or the format that is passed to it by other plug-ins ahead of it in the processing chain?
The plugin takes what WA gives to it. I think in your case it is the output from a DSP plugin (because an output plugin is always the last in the chain). You may ask DrO how chains of plugins are build ...

Which DSP you are using?
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Old 28th January 2015, 17:25   #36
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Ok, but the format is 24 bit, 96000 Hz, 6 channels which the Windows Sound configuration tool is setup to expect and it's working fine with the plug-ins I'm currently using (but they only support shared mode).

I don't want to annoy you, but logically your plug-in should work for me, but it doesn't. I'm just trying to understand why the Winamp DirectSound output plug-in accepts and passes on the signal to the WASAPI in an acceptable way and your output plug-in doesn't seem to.

Is it possible the 24 bits are being truncated to 16? I'm trying to figure out what may work without trying all the possible permutations. I'm afraid of what multiple crashes may do to my system.

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Old 28th January 2015, 17:41   #37
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the format is 24 bit, 96000 Hz, 6 channels
Is this coming from WA? If yes, how you are doing this?
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the Windows Sound configuration tool
What is this? Could you please post a link?
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Old 28th January 2015, 18:28   #38
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Is this coming from WA? If yes, how you are doing this?
The configuration dialog for the DirectSound output plug-in has a status page that shows the output format it is using. I use Matrix Mixer (http://sourceforge.net/projects/winampmatrixmix/) to do the up-sampling and up-mixing of the decoded input source and pass the resulting signal directly to a selectable output plug-in (in this case DirectSound, which is the default).

A DSP plug-in (if used) would process the signal after the appropriate input plug-in and before Matrix Mixer. I don't use the Winamp equalizer and I'm not sure if it's processing is done before or after a DSP plug-in. I assume WASAPI would apply a soundcard's or mobo soundchip's equalizing and/or DSP signal processing utilities (I don't use them either) to the signal after it leaves Winamp.

I sometimes use Stereo Tool (http://www.stereotool.com/), a DSP plug-in, to 'enhance' some of my lower quality mp3 files I've downloaded over the years. I don't need it for files I've ripped myself.

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What is this? Could you please post a link?
Sorry for the confusion. I'm taking about the same Windows control panel utility you mentioned earlier

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Old 28th January 2015, 19:47   #39
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Ok, now I can reproduce the error (no solution yet).
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Old 30th January 2015, 09:18   #40
pbelkner
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 405
v0.4.0

What's new?
  • Option for treating mono as stereo (default switched on).
  • New default options for buffer configuration.
  • Some fixes.

Please note that the new default options for buffer configuration are tested with internet radio. With the old default options internet radio was prone to glitches and pops even on my side because of huge fluctuations of the stream. With the new options it seems that these fluctuations are buffered sufficiently.
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