Old 1st September 2014, 11:14   #1
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What makes Winamp feel unpolished?

Now and again I come across little things (behavior quirks) with some parts of Winamp that seem inconsistent with other similar parts of Winamp. The intent of this thread is to provide a place to point these things out. Suggestions for new features and major changes should be posted in the Wishlist sub-forum.

To start off:

1. Last year the effort was made to have many of the dialog windows associated with native features remember their new positions when re-positioned. Since some windows remember and some don't, it's a little annoying to re-position a window and then have the new position not remembered the next time the same window is opened within the same Winamp session.

I'm seeing this in my configuration with the main context menu "Play - Folder...", "Visualization - Configure plug-in...", "Windows Settings - Opacity - Custom...", and "Windows Settings - Scaling - Custom..." windows. Also with the Playlist Editor and Media Library context menu "Send to: - Library Playlist" window.

2. The "Cancel" button on the context menu "Send to: - Library Playlist" window must be clicked twice (to close it) when the window is opened in the media library. The 1st click just causes this window to close and reopen.

Only 1 click on the "Cancel" button is needed to close it when this window is opened in the Playlist Editor.

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Old 1st September 2014, 12:49   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
"Play - Folder...", "Visualization - Configure plug-in..."
using Milkdrop or something else ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
"Windows Settings - Opacity - Custom...", and "Windows Settings - Scaling - Custom..."
that's a gen_ff issue so is simple enough to fix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
with the Playlist Editor and Media Library context menu "Send to: - Library Playlist" window
is that the new playlist or select playlist option ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
2. The "Cancel" button on the context menu "Send to: - Library Playlist" window must be clicked twice (to close it) when the window is opened in the media library. The 1st click just causes this window to close and reopen.
i've tried a number of things and so far cannot replicate this (or see anything obvious in the source code which could be causing that to happen for you).
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Old 1st September 2014, 13:28   #3
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1) Using Milkdrop

2) That's good news

3) Yes, that's the dialog I'm talking about

4) Maybe it is something introduced by the cPro plug-in. However, I switched to the official Winamp skins and still see the behavior, even in Safe Mode. If no one else reports it, it must be unique to me.

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Old 1st September 2014, 14:47   #4
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Another issue.

I can get a SHOUTcast station bookmark to load and play by selecting it in the media library's "Bookmarks" view and clicking the "Play" button.

I can't get the same bookmark to load and play by using the main context menu's "Play - Bookmark" and "Bookmarks" commands. I'm just clicking on the listed bookmark, is something else required?

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Old 1st September 2014, 15:09   #5
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can you check if there's a difference in the playlist item that is created between the two different modes please - there shouldn't be but maybe something has broken with the menu lookup.
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Old 1st September 2014, 15:25   #6
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I used the context menu's "Bookmarks - Add current as bookmark" command (is there another way?). Then using the edit command I see the bookmarks have different titles but the same url for file. The behavior did not change, can only start the station from the media library.

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Old 1st September 2014, 15:31   #7
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hmm, i've tried those steps and with what i tried it played fine (as i've been using bookmarks a bit of late for testing so would have hoped to have seen any issue crop up).

is there anything the failing item shows in the playlist when you try to play it but it doesn't work ?
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Old 1st September 2014, 15:37   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
is there anything the failing item shows in the playlist when you try to play it but it doesn't work ?
No, the dialog window closes and nothing else happens.

I'm starting to feel bad about bringing these things up. I've been content using the alternate methods that work for me.

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Old 1st September 2014, 15:52   #9
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is it as a playlist that you've bookmarked? might be helpful if you can provide the bookmark causing the issue and the playlist entry from both cases (ideally as an attached playlist).
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Old 1st September 2014, 15:54   #10
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I can't get the same bookmark to load and play by using the main context menu's "Play - Bookmark" and "Bookmarks" commands. I'm just clicking on the listed bookmark, is something else required?
DrO answered a similar question last November: http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....90#post2975690
Try experimenting with the options here: Preferences > Media Library > Options Tab > "Double Click or Enter in the Views"

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Old 1st September 2014, 16:03   #11
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it doesn't seem like the same thing but who can say... as i can't at the moment
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Old 1st September 2014, 16:12   #12
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Try experimenting with the options here: Preferences > Media Library > Options Tab > "Double Click or Enter in the Views"
Thank you ryerman, that nailed it.

I got focused on your ATF string in that thread and forgot all about what your question and the answer was. I've only recently started using bookmarks for SHOUTcast stations.

I've always had that GP option set to "Enqueues selected item(s)". I changed it to "Enqueues and plays selected item(s)". The using <Shift> key while clicking with the other setting also works for me.

It's strange that nothing was queued, but tying those context menu commands to media library options doesn't surprise me.

Edit:
The station's url was queued at the bottom of playlist I had loaded before trying to play the station. Since I didn't scroll to bottom of that list, I didn't see it (things appeared as though nothing had happened). So in this case, Winamp is doing what it is designed and was told to do.

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Old 1st September 2014, 16:18   #13
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ah ok, that makes more sense as i was focusing on the wrong bits from the information provided (and why i couldn't replicate it as i've not got that option enabled currently).

one more thing for the bug fix todo list it seems... along with an appropriate re-working of config option layouts to try to avoid the mis-match in usage of that option in non-library areas. i think we can use this a prime example of the thread title's question
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Old 1st September 2014, 16:30   #14
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Quote:
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... i think we can use this a prime example of the thread title's question
So this thread may do some good afterall.

Ok guys, I'm done for today. I've got a 12 hour shift to work tonight and it's time to get some sleep.

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Old 3rd October 2014, 18:43   #15
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The ATF help page (atf.htm) shown in the internal browser gets left in the user's temp folder when Winamp is shutdown.

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Old 3rd October 2014, 18:52   #16
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that's intended behaviour. as it's an embedded resource in winamp.exe and for it to work reliably in all browsers we then have to extract it as a real file and so it goes into the temp folder. and since we don't know if it's been finished with or not i.e. still in use when Winamp is closed, it was decided it's best to leave it in the temp folder from which it is used on future usage or re-extracted if not found from having been cleaned up.
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Old 4th October 2014, 16:04   #17
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Thanx for the explanation. It just feels wrong to me to use the temp folder for files that will intentionally persist once they're created. It's also risky to reuse a file in the temp folder (without updating/refreshing it) during a new session just because it has the correct filename. Why not store "atf.htm" (and future embedded help files) in one of the Winamp user data folders?

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Old 4th October 2014, 16:25   #18
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because i didn't have to the time to think about doing it when we quickly cobbled that support in
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Old 6th October 2014, 03:54   #19
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attached screenshot shows in the red areas before (right) and after (left) of changing the main playlist editor to use the same style of scrollbar as the rest of the skin uses (which is one of those things that has never felt right in being inconsistent). the screenshot is taken from working code (is just a few quirks that need to be ironed out with the handling of the new scrollbar e.g. click + drag doesn't update it's position and the buttons don't show a hover state correctly).

for classic skins, its trickier to apply the same thing and it will have to be done as an opt-in i.e. needs skin updates so it will fit in nicely. as some of the ones i've tried, the scrollbar style used in the library window doesn't fit in well with the main playlist editor (hides some of the skin details or has things above / below it which are ok with the original style but not if using a standard style).


this common playlist editor scrollbar style will be provided as a compatibility option so the older way can be restored for those not liking it. as it's going to be enabled by default for modern skins and the classic base skin (and in turn any classic skin updated to support it), otherwise all existing classic skins will work like before (as breaking the look for them is not worth the grief).


p.s. i doubt anyone has ever really noticed that at the default font for the playlist editor, the drawn selection height of the first item is 14px whereas it's 15px for all other items. so that's another inconsistency which i've fixed as part of adding this scrollbar type change
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Old 6th October 2014, 04:35   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
p.s. i doubt anyone has ever really noticed that at the default font for the playlist editor, the drawn selection height of the first item is 14px whereas it's 15px for all other items. so that's another inconsistency which i've fixed as part of adding this scrollbar type change
Ha! Believe it or not I've noticed it just some days ago when doing my mockup of the PL with alternate bg. I couldn't make a rectangle whose height fits equally the 1st and all the other rows. I suspected there was something wrong there, although I didn't care since I wasn't even able to determine if there was some extra margin beyond the PL..
Yeh.. We designers are strange, I know.
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Old 6th October 2014, 05:50   #21
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Hi DrO,

I changed the default font and size a long, long time ago. What is the default font and size?

That's a good move making the PL editor's scroll bar like the others. The single step buttons will provide for more granular control when needed. Will the scroll bar buttons always scroll 1 line per click, while the number of lines scrolled by the keyboard PgUp and PgDn buttons still be configurable?

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Old 6th October 2014, 13:22   #22
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Ha! Believe it or not I've noticed it just some days ago when doing my mockup of the PL with alternate bg. I couldn't make a rectangle whose height fits equally the 1st and all the other rows. I suspected there was something wrong there, although I didn't care since I wasn't even able to determine if there was some extra margin beyond the PL..
you should have said as it took me a while to figure it out myself as resizing the playlist once there was a selection could make it appear at the correct height but then selecting something else wouldn't (was a bit funky on how we were firing off update regions to re-paint).

Quote:
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I changed the default font and size a long, long time ago. What is the default font and size?
it'd show with other fonts as well as the top of the first item was being clipped in all cases (could be up to a few pixels in some cases).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
That's a good move making the PL editor's scroll bar like the others. The single step buttons will provide for more granular control when needed. Will the scroll bar buttons always scroll 1 line per click, while the number of lines scrolled by the keyboard PgUp and PgDn buttons still be configurable?
i think so, i've still to fully hook up that handling so i need to go through and check how it all works vs the existing config options - i can always just disable things as needed to get it working consistently
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Old 6th October 2014, 14:34   #23
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...

it'd show with other fonts as well as the top of the first item was being clipped in all cases (could be up to a few pixels in some cases).

...
I'm using Verdana at 14p, so I don't see any clipping.

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Old 29th December 2014, 13:58   #24
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Maybe more than an "unpolished thing" this is more of a too-hard-to-implement-being-just-victhor-who-noticed-it (though I'm sure there are others..): When using "physically remove selected file" on the PL editor, it makes sense that it's also removed from the Media Library (sort of triggering "remove all dead files" but, ideally, just focusing on the current item..).
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Old 29th December 2014, 14:26   #25
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... this is more of a too-hard-to-implement-being-just-victhor-who-noticed-it (though I'm sure there are others..) ...
I don't think this would be hard to implement. It's more of a 'give the user the control, kind of thing', imo. Removing missing files during a rescan is optional. While this would seem to be an obvious thing to do, there must be a reason for this to be one of Winamp's oldest options.

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Old 1st January 2015, 01:49   #26
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things that make winamp feel unpolished:

1. being the only music manager/player/editor/etc that does not allow editing of comp tags.

2. lacking the ability to let the user decide the multiple-column-sorting per pane.

3. a very longstanding problem of lack of consistency in terms:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra
1. you need to change the terminology throughout the winamp desktop app to be CONSISTENT. CD Ripping (which doesn't) and "the droid path" (which does) should BOTH use <albumartist> for "album artist" and <artist> for "track artist" ...any other confusing inconsistentcies should likewise be stamped out.

2. the user can already make adjustments to prefs, etc, for USB transfers. the user can NOT do the same for wifi xfers. why? again, this should be changed, wifi xfer settings should be equally exposed, which leads to:

3. both the USB and the wifi xfer settings should be controlled by the same pref[s]. so what i mean is that it shouldn't matter if the user uses a USB cable or wifi to do things, there should be ONLY one set of prefs to control BOTH types of xfers. otherwise, the USB ones risk being divergent from what the app forces via wifi ones.

so to put it another way, the method of xfer should not matter, the prefs applying to xfers will be universal/global to any type of xfer, and all methods of xfer should be controlled by the one set of prefs for that (i.e. winamp to droid).

4. the defaults are currently terrible for the prefs. they should look something like this, (where G is the Droid):

G:\Music\<Albumartist>\<Album>\## - <Artist> - <Title>

when the music is put on the device in this way, it properly organizes albums, including VA ones, on a droid/WFA.

the current default, for wifi, is close to that. but for USB, it uses track artist! thats just silly. and thats the kind of divergence u get out of the box, as well as a crappy default.
http://forums.winamp.com/showpost.ph...68&postcount=2

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=331309

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Old 1st January 2015, 02:48   #27
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Quote:
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things that make winamp feel unpolished:
...3. a very longstanding problem of lack of consistency in terms...
Right you are!
Probably, this is why:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Egg View Post
...this is what can happen when there's been about 20 or more different coders working on Winamp in the past 10+ years....
The impending rebirth of Winamp seems like a good time to address this issue.

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Old 4th January 2015, 00:51   #28
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I know this was probably adressed before, but it fits here too:

Preferences window is a too used window to have its access / shorcut under a sub-menu (something more annoying when using it repeteadly). Most programs have its Preference / Options in a more handy place.

So, IMHO it could be put somewhere on top of other options (maybe next to "Nullsoft Winamp.."). Or, alternatively, it could be opened when clicking the "Options" word (saving one side-move and achiving almost the same as placing it outside the sub-menu)
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Old 4th January 2015, 06:10   #29
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Quote:
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I know this was probably adressed before, but it fits here too:

Preferences window is a too used window to have its access / shorcut under a sub-menu (something more annoying when using it repeteadly). Most programs have its Preference / Options in a more handy place.

So, IMHO it could be put somewhere on top of other options (maybe next to "Nullsoft Winamp.."). Or, alternatively, it could be opened when clicking the "Options" word (saving one side-move and achiving almost the same as placing it outside the sub-menu)
my suggestion would be to allow the lightning bolt to open prefs, instead of the about box or the ML. I don't need the lightning bolt for either of those, I would use it to open prefs.

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Old 19th January 2015, 18:16   #30
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Some skins don't show the lightning bolt, although some of those do provide another control element to activate those 2 options (and usually others, but GP is not included).

I mostly use the mouse, but the <Ctrl+P> keyboard shortcut is the fastest way to open the General Preferences dialog.

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Old 19th January 2015, 19:31   #31
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u could always say that some skins don't have any given function, that's always the case since skins can do whatever they want.

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Old 19th January 2015, 23:06   #32
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Actually, using the lightning bolt is not the solution I was aiming to. As you said, some skins doesn't have it, so I was aiming to something more permanent and cross-skin.
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Old 19th January 2015, 23:15   #33
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but skins can have or not have anything they want... its up to the skin. u can pick or create some other "thingee" to do what you want, but it doesn't change that fact.

if the lightning bolt did something more useful, like open prefs, more skins might include it.

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Old 19th January 2015, 23:51   #34
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I think you're missing some skinning knowledge there, the lightning bolt is the implementation of a function. The function itself can be called from any skin, from any button. E.G cPro has the option to make the "lightning bolt" open or do various things, so it's called "Multibutton". You set the function through RC:



And obviously the button itself can have any shape:




And there is also the function dblclickaction="WA5:Prefs" you can set to any suitable text / graphic, like in the Winamp Modern skin, where you can open the prefs window when double clicking the "stereo/mono" area. Also present on Big Bento, but for some reason in that skin is harder to hit..
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Old 20th January 2015, 13:48   #35
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I def don't know much about skins, esp how to make them, but my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that a skin can include, or not include, any given function, whatever it may be. is this not correct?

if it is correct, I don't see how you could have something in the UI which would be "permanent" and work on all skins. if I'm wrong here, I'm happy to admit it, and I'd appreciate being corrected.

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Old 20th January 2015, 15:37   #36
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Yep, is like you said, but I was aiming at the fact that the lightning bolt is a "button calling a function", and as such is not a good solution, since it isn't included in every skin. So the Right click solution (which IS cross-skins) seems more suitable.
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Old 20th January 2015, 16:05   #37
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Context menus are also not universal and can be adversely affected by 3rd party plug-ins.

As far as I can tell, only the keyboard shortcuts that are supported by the core app are universal. But the GP global hotkeys options allow hotkeys to be blocked (removed) or assigned to different key combinations.

So unless the defaults are not changed, nothing (or very few things) can be guaranteed to work in all skins in the same way.

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Old 20th January 2015, 16:24   #38
MrSinatra
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I come back to my original point, which is that if the lightning bolt were more useful, like in say opening prefs, I think more skins would choose to include it. the choice of whether to include it or not (as a button), or what it should look like would still of course be up to whoever makes the skin.

Victhor, would you not use it if available?

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Old 20th January 2015, 17:19   #39
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I agree that it would be nice to have the lightning bolt be able to do more things. But that is more of a wish list thing than a polish issue, imo.

Victhor's original concern that the GP command have a most prominent position is something to consider. However having it on a sub-menu with other options is also appropriate, imo.

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Old 20th January 2015, 18:13   #40
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I never said it was a polish issue, I was simply responding to post 28.

GP means what? prefs? if it were accessible via the lightning bolt, it would be more prominent. I'm not for losing it via context / submenus tho, it should remain there as well, although maybe not so deeply nestled.

EDIT: there is a semi quick way to get to prefs in Bento, via the "Library" button in the lower left. click it, then click ML prefs, and it takes u to that section in prefs.

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