Old 29th August 2011, 11:42   #1
xsoft
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Scratch and digress sound

Hi,
I have an issue with scratching and not fluent sound on my ShoutCast stream. Im on:

http://radio.iidx.cz
http://www.shoutcast.com/shoutcast_p...ion_id=2981889

Everything works fint from WinAmp Aimp, FooBar, VLC. But flash player have an issue with this. Also playback from Shoutcastpages have this issue (well, there is flash player).
(direct link: xsoft.no-ip.org:573/play)

Im on port 573. Upload is 5Mbit, bitrate set to 128kb. Its same if Im on internal network as well as from outside. Intro file (3sec), is fluent, rest is not.

Have you any clue what should I check? I have forwarded 573 and 574 port, TCP and UDP packets thrue NAT.
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Old 29th August 2011, 12:53   #2
DrO
 
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it sounds like you've got an intro file specified for the stream which is known to cause issues with the site flash player (why i don't know, all i know is that it does and without a new site player, it's not going to be resolved anytime soon - seeing as it's been that way ever since the thing was created in 2009 i think - possibly earlier).

-daz
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Old 29th August 2011, 13:08   #3
xsoft
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I can put intro file out as at first time. But result was same. Also I dont thing its because SC.com flash player. I tried 4 another flash player for site and all did this.

It looks on some generic error between SC server (on my side) and (any) flash player. Is there some :magic: string for buffer time, or anything? I somewhere saw also some "content" file that can be added to .config. But its was about rights I guest, and that will not anything to do with playback . . .. ....

Oh, change bitrate, mp3 to acc, .. didnt help.
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Old 29th August 2011, 13:22   #4
DrO
 
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you never said anything about other flash players until now, just the site player and proper players which can cope with SHOUTcast streams.

all i can go on is what i saw when briefly testing things (which was limited whilst i'm on our internal network as it won't resolve your site address due to it being a dynamic ip).

Quote:
I somewhere saw also some "content" file that can be added to .config. But its was about rights I guest, and that will not anything to do with playback
i can only guess you mean the crossdomain.xml.


if it's working fine in proper players, then to be honest there's not much i can do for the time being as playback of SHOUTcast in flash has never been a greatly supported thing.

-daz
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Old 29th August 2011, 13:48   #5
xsoft
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Quote:
just the site player and proper players which can cope with SHOUTcast streams.
Obviously other (flash and non-flash) players can play ShoutCAST streams too. Flash test players are on:
http://radio.iidx*****a.htm
http://radio.iidx*****b.htm

If I use RealPlayer or MediaPlayer plugin (from http://radio.iidx*****), then it works smoothly. But its again non-flash player.

Im not seeing there an issue with other (aka unsupported) flash player if all have same result. On my stream didnt work properly (but at least it plays some notes), and on other streams it works fine.

Quote:
i can only guess you mean the crossdomain.xml.
Yes, thats it Do you thing that it will have any defect on play?

Quote:
your site address due to it being a dynamic ip
True, but it public IP. It dinamic, but my IP didnt change past last 6 months. Still, if you resolve xsoft.no-ip.org, you will get current IP (Im updating this status every 5 minutes). But its on 98% static.

Quote:
if it's working fine in proper players, then to be honest there's not much i can do for the time being as playback of SHOUTcast in flash has never been a greatly supported thing.
I get it. Still Im wondering why other streams works and this have this issues. Can I increase some "flash" or output buffer? I guess it will didnt help. My playback have like 20-30s delay (change music on winamp is heared with 20-30s on target device).

Some trick with MP3/ACC, bitrate, relay, buffer, ... ... which I can try? Or some forwarding tricks if Im behing NAT (I set up redir from my Access point to computer on NAT on port, where stream is. Server works fine, Im on YP now, I can get out and in ... just this performance is scratching).
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Old 29th August 2011, 19:55   #6
DrO
 
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the links you've posted are being filtered for some reason so i cannot even try to look at them.

my comment about the ip is that on the Aol network, it's blocking your address so i cannot resolve / debug it and as i've got to do things on the network, it's going to be a day or more before i can look at it properly.

there's nothing you can increase with the buffers as that's not how the flash players genreally work - you just end up delaying your stream even more for no real benefit.

as i said, if the other true players are working ok then that's the main thing - the flash player just doesn't like some settings or music formats which isn't something we've got much control over with the current site player implementation. so there's no options that i can think off for you to change to see if it works or not.

-daz
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Old 30th August 2011, 08:10   #7
xsoft
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Ok, thanks.

Note to that filtered URL. My psot was moderated by some automatic filter on forums side.
More or less, links was:
radio . iidx . cz / a.htm
and .. / b.htm

Direct link to stream: xsoft . no-ip . org : 57 / play
(or thrue IP 213 220 195 186)
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Old 30th August 2011, 10:49   #8
DrO
 
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now that i've had a quick chance to play with things...

a.htm works like the site player does in playing the intro and then goes dodgy.
b.htm just plays the intro and aborts for me.


i'm wondering if there's something in the stream data which causes the flash player to de-sync and so it can then never catch up with itself. as i know i've seen it do the same when there's meant to be a title update but as the flash players don't generally use it then it's just dead data.

when i get some time i'll have to try out some changes in the DNAS to see if i can improve things as ideally the DNAS shouldn't attempt to send in-stream metadata, etc if it's connected to a flash player when it's known that it won't support it. only issue is that from the few i've just tried, there's not anything in the connection requests to make it easier to know the mode to use - there is a way with the site player which i could target as a specific change in the DNAS (assuming the idea even works), but then that won't resolve other players *shrugs*

-daz
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Old 7th September 2011, 23:48   #9
DrO
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
i'm wondering if there's something in the stream data which causes the flash player to de-sync and so it can then never catch up with itself. as i know i've seen it do the same when there's meant to be a title update but as the flash players don't generally use it then it's just dead data.
as a follow up on my prior post in this thread, the in-stream metadata was causing the site player issues and i've added in a few changes in the internal v2 DNAS build to basically not send the in-stream metadata if it detects it's being accessed from the site player which i've had running for ~1hr with multiple song changes and no drop outs, etc as was happening beforehand.

as well, the Source DSP causes an issue with the site player on title change by inserting incorrect output into the stream which for proper clients is not an issue but with how the site player works, it instantly dislikes it.


the changes however won't resolve the issue with an introfile and is something i need to look into more as nothing obvious jumps out as to why there is an issue unless it's like the title issue beforehand and due to invalid in-stream data being received by the site player.


final thing, you're doing some weird embedding of the DNAS summary page into your site page which is a bit dubious when it comes to the TOS for the DNAS's usage i believe (though as it appears to be unaltered information i think it's ok).

-daz
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Old 8th September 2011, 00:57   #10
DrO
 
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ok, have had a quick look at the intro file issue and if done from the current Transcoder to the DNAS (all in v2 mode) i.e. via serverintrofile then the site player will not have any issues with an intro file.

if doing it via the DNAS's introfile or streamintrofile option then it is having issues (as already known) even with exactly matched intro file to the stream data type and with any tag(s) removed from the intro file (which improved things so a bit more of the audio was heard before it then stutters).


now i know this option is never going to be exact / work fully if input and stream aren't the same when set just in the DNAS's options, but it should at least keep running in some form without stuttering where possible.

so obviously there's more that i've got to do (but too late now for me to do that). either way i'm going to have to implement some more things into the DNAS such as stripping off any tags from the intro (and also backup file as that will have the same issue) and do some better debugging of the actual packet data output.

as there really shouldn't be issues in the site player or a proper player if taking a few seconds from the file which is then played in the stream after the intro as part of testing (as my chipmunked test provided) when it's all at the same output type.

obviously i'm probably wasting my time on this but at least if i can improve things a bit then that's better than current things and it can then just become one of the long-standing known issues.

-daz
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Old 13th September 2011, 17:59   #11
kishor108
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I don't think you're wasting your time, daz. I think a lot of people are going to a radio station's website listening the stream via Flash player, so I'd also very much welcome this bug being fixed.

I'd also have another question or feature request regarding the serverintrofile variable. It would be great to use an asterisk in the serverintro file name in order to randomize the file being played.
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Old 13th September 2011, 21:11   #12
kishor108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
ok, have had a quick look at the intro file issue and if done from the current Transcoder to the DNAS (all in v2 mode) i.e. via serverintrofile then the site player will not have any issues with an intro file.
I just re-read this part of your last reply which makes me wonder what's wrong with my setup. As far as I understand I'm using the latest version of both server and transcoder.

sc_serv2_linux_07_31_2011.tar.gz
sc_trans_linux_07_29_2011.tar.gz

Is there an easy way to find out if I'm in v2 mode?
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Old 14th September 2011, 10:10   #13
DrO
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kishor108 View Post
I don't think you're wasting your time, daz. I think a lot of people are going to a radio station's website listening the stream via Flash player, so I'd also very much welcome this bug being fixed.
i'm not disagreeing that something needs to be done and the more i've looked into it (on / off over 3 days), the more it seems that it's likely a long-standing DNAS issue which also affects the v1 DNAS as the method the site flash player uses does not cope well with invalid data in the stream which can happen when using an intro file.

now i've done some changes in the DNAS which will improve the reliability but until i get some proper time to fully implement re-syncing of the intro file to the stream data, there's not much which can be done (assuming that is the cause of the interruptions and does seem to be it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kishor108 View Post
I'd also have another question or feature request regarding the serverintrofile variable. It would be great to use an asterisk in the serverintro file name in order to randomize the file being played.
i'm not sure about that at all since if you're specifying an intro (or backup) file, it needs to be there - adding in wildcard handling doesn't seem right. the best option (which is already part implemented) is to use the 'admin.cgi?mode=reload' option to update the intro (or backup) file required - though for that i think the non-stream config options should probably be added to what can be updated on the fly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kishor108 View Post
I just re-read this part of your last reply which makes me wonder what's wrong with my setup. As far as I understand I'm using the latest version of both server and transcoder.

sc_serv2_linux_07_31_2011.tar.gz
sc_trans_linux_07_29_2011.tar.gz

Is there an easy way to find out if I'm in v2 mode?
that was an error on my part as it only works for the first client connection and then it acts like it has always done with interruptions in the stream. you can tell if you're running in v2 mode if outprotocol=3 is set for the encoder configuration group in the Transcoder's config file. so if that is all set then it's not something on your end as the issue with the intro file + flash players is something which goes back years for both the v1 and v2 DNAS.

-daz
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Old 15th September 2011, 19:32   #14
kishor108
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Thanks, looking forward to the next release then. Is there a nightly build or something similar that can be grabbed before a new stable release is pushed out?
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Old 15th September 2011, 21:58   #15
DrO
 
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nah there's no proper nightly / pre-release builds unless i run one off which i only tend to send out when testing specific bug fixes to make sure they are resolved, otherwise it's just when a new public build comes out. between builds 17 and 27 i did give out a number of builds though that seems to have bitten me as there's still a number of people using them instead of the current build so i'm generally not giving them out as often now (plus isn't really needed since build 29 is pretty stable).

-daz
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