Old 5th September 2007, 10:43   #41
CraigF
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uh, its open source, compile it against any other player you feel like.

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Old 5th September 2007, 18:13   #42
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the problem is: I don't know anything about programming.

my newest release (aug2007):
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Old 5th September 2007, 23:53   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by HuRriC4nE
the problem is: I can't be arsed to learn to program

http://PAK-9.deviantart.com

...innit
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Old 6th September 2007, 11:05   #44
CraigF
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Quote:
Originally posted by HuRriC4nE
the problem is: I don't know anything about programming.
Then how on earth can your comment of "it needs to be available for more players" ever be valid?

Someone put the work in to add it to xbmc, so its feasible to port to other players.

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Old 8th September 2007, 12:40   #45
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sorry if no one likes what i say, but in my opinion the player (WINAMP)/ the depending of avs on winamp is the problem. I am not capable to solve it. I don't have the problem either. I don't have a problem using 2 players on my computer. Some people out there have this problem.
I mean those people that don't make presets themself, but are just watching them. If they have to use another player as the one they use normally they will sooner or later loose their interest. Winamp is not such a great player ...

I make presets for fun. If other people see them is not so important - there aren't so muc already.
If you say avs is dead - maybe for you. I never saw it be alive, because I started making presets just about a year ago. If Avs beeing alive so little was a problem for me why did I started? For me there is not such a great need for reigniting the whole community - it would be great, of course! - but i can also go on like this and have fun.

my newest release (aug2007):
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Old 14th September 2007, 01:38   #46
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gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh im a zombie....
nah seriously i have been busy, doing nothing with my life.

i am not normal, no really.
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Old 15th September 2007, 09:03   #47
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Sorry but I have been converted by WMP11. The reason is because of its media library capability. Now I say avs should be compatable with at least WMP. If winamp had these media library functions all of the forums might become really active. Well at least Avs.
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Old 15th September 2007, 10:45   #48
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one of the best features in wmp (and 11): there can be several interprets for one song - divided by a semicolon.

That's for me one of the best features!

my newest release (aug2007):
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Old 15th September 2007, 13:22   #49
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i'm using itunes most of the time, both on mac and windows. foobar2000 when it comes to avs and wake-up alarm.
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Old 16th September 2007, 02:12   #50
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Back to the avs forums.
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Old 3rd October 2007, 04:03   #51
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This is boring, no-one's going to say anything. So I will. When I joined there was nothing happenning and everything was empty. Then I made my "Tips and Tricks" thread. Gee I thought I was cool. But then people said "What are you doing you retard". And maybe that stirred the pot, but at the same time a whole bunch of juinor members appeared. I was the first, I don't know if I should feel proud but I do. The point is, the AVS forums are being overwhelmed by newbies and it's wrecking it. If the newbies were dumb like me (I'm not dumb), the big kids would sort it out it would be ok. But the big kids are too lazy.

I say, all we need are some smart people with the senior member title or above to get off their backside and fix it up.
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Old 3rd October 2007, 10:54   #52
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i'd be willing to do just that.
but what exactly is it that needs fixing in your eyes?
in my opinion it's the newbies that have just duscovered avs and are producing some avs that is, in the eyes of the seniors here, sub-sub-standard. but that is no problem of course, how could they be masters right away? [i mean there still was this kar-ma guy who had some surprising talent, but hey...]
what the newbs need then is "guidance" of some sort, the so called "constructive criticism" [which is at a low in these forums, admitted].
the conflict i have as someone who could provide this, is that most of the time i don't feel very inclined to comment on yet another "trippy-supernovae-water-zomg-so-fat" newbie preset when at the same time i know that i committed the same stuff when i began, and that i could and should help to improve.

the other thing is of course, that AVS [the program itself] is too old, but what the...
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Old 22nd November 2007, 09:23   #53
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We need to make it interesting or let the newbies have their own part until they grow out of it. If we help them out it will be more popular. Maybe we should buddy up with someone? I dunno what to do.
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Old 23rd November 2007, 18:50   #54
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but when do you draw the line at who is a newbie and who still is?

-daz
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Old 13th December 2007, 11:42   #55
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apparently you spin around 3 times and point at someone

i am not normal, no really.
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Old 18th December 2007, 12:41   #56
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yup. rip avs.

I would like to pretend I would make the effort to work on it... but it is just too out of date... and frankly I am too busy with my own junk to work on Fridge.

Sorry guys...

-- Jheriko

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Old 18th December 2007, 23:35   #57
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The majority of the presets and the artists of the oldschool AVS scene died off with the inclusion of the DM and the SSC. The newschool scene exploded and more and more people became interested in it. More features were added, mostly as a result of the artists' demand, eventually taking matters into their own hands using skill and ingenuity to create their own features. Then as the entire artform began to evolve as the presets became more intricate, artists' kept resetting the bar both for themselves and for the entire community. Viewers and artists alike demanded more and more fresh and complex ideas to continue the Wow! factor to keep everyone coming back for more.

Admittedly, I haven't even opened up AVS since April, and I haven't looked around for any new packs in quite some time either, but the last few packs I can remember downloading that really made my jaw drop were Tuggummi's Functions, Pak-9's 5, and Hboy's Mindscapes. For me, 2005 was the pinnacle year for AVS.

I think it's great that there are people who are still holding on, working to create presets and keep the artform and the community going. But, right or wrong, it's apparent that the same old things don't keep people interested anymore. AVS had to transcend to stay alive as long as it did, but I think it reached its peak, and I too am sorry to say that AVS is dead to me.

Spiral out, my friend. You will find your way back to yourself, we all will.
I'll be waiting, and shall see you on the other side...
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Old 19th December 2007, 08:16   #58
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very well put, dfs
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Old 20th December 2007, 12:59   #59
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indeed well put dfs, avs would require another oldskool/newskool transition to keep it alive. Which would require some sort of update of avs, if only AOL would listen and do some work on it.

Winamp needs something to set it apart from other media players these days, so its not as if it wouldnt be worth it.

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...innit
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Old 2nd January 2008, 02:08   #60
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NEW STUFF

In my opinion avs is far from dead, it just needs a boost.
The standalone avs program is an awesome idea, that would more than likely be a huge boost to avs as a whole, including the community. I think avs needs something else altogether.

NEW STUFF.

A few new renders and filters wouldn't hurt. I think avs has exhausted a lot of its possibilities by having all of these people work on it without making new tools to work with.

you can only build so much with a single load of lumber.

another possibility is making a winamp port for psp
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Old 2nd January 2008, 09:15   #61
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Wrong.

Think of a render that can't be implemented using existing AVS components. Got an idea there?

We have no shortage of crazy ideas... browsing the forums will find 101 requests for random features. The problem is that nobody wants to do work on AVS to revive it... its a huge messy pile of code riddled with hacks and tricks, mostly uncommented.

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Old 2nd January 2008, 14:38   #62
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The question is, if it was so hard to re-code avs.

Now it's not the right time to do it, but GC and I thought maybe in a year or something we will sit down, learn programming (gc's uncle) and then we will try to revive avs.

Next to recoding everything that exists (of course) there could/must some stuff be added.
For example some "after-effects" like a blur that can be made from the grafics card.
If I'm right things like flows are still Operations that only the cpu can do.(right?).

..And that is also the point: how could avs(or how-ever it is called then) be changed to be faster on multicore-systems.

Another thing that I think is needed is a more accurate spekrum/oscillograph. In Avs it is limited to 500 or so isn't it?

Maybe when the time is there
we could exchange know-how a little.
now the university is keeping us busy a little - first semester...

my newest release (aug2007):
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/61408641/
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Old 2nd January 2008, 15:26   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by HuRriC4nE
The question is, if it was so hard to re-code avs.
Yes. I have tried this as part of the Fridge team, it never gets further than a window, maybe with a skin and OpenGL support or something... It would be easier if I was doing it on my own, but still, I would be deluding myself to think I would finish it alone.

Justin wrote this pretty much on his own, but he is a f*cking awesome coder.

One tip. Do not spend to much time on design. IMO that was the largest contributing factor to the nothingness of Fridge. As good as a really thorough design is, all that time spent is wasted if you don't actually develop the thing afterwards.

Quote:
Originally posted by HuRriC4nE
Now it's not the right time to do it, but GC and I thought maybe in a year or something we will sit down, learn programming (gc's uncle) and then we will try to revive avs.
Nothing personal, but most people need a good year of simple programming (VB, Java, etc...) before being exposed to the Windows API... much less building something as elaborate as AVS.

Quote:
Originally posted by HuRriC4nE
Next to recoding everything that exists (of course) there could/must some stuff be added.
Personally there is a lot of stuff that could be lost or refactored into a more useful form. e.g. most of the renders can be made from superscopes, or triangles so imo it would be better to have them as preset code for a superscope or triangle render, than to have a seperate render.

Quote:
Originally posted by HuRriC4nE
For example some "after-effects" like a blur that can be made from the grafics card.
If I'm right things like flows are still Operations that only the cpu can do.(right?).
Don't start thinking about that yet, you do not have the knowledge to work this stuff out yet... Post-processing ("after-effects") can be implemented on graphics cards in lots of ways, but they are not unique in that respect. Everything that AVS renders could be hardware accelerated to some extent, even DM. However, you always need to use some CPU... even if it is just to pump instructions down the bus for the graphics card or ticking over waiting for the graphics card to complete something.

Quote:
Originally posted by HuRriC4nE
..And that is also the point: how could avs(or how-ever it is called then) be changed to be faster on multicore-systems.
Again, don't think about this now. Lots of graphics problems are what is called "embarrassingly parellel" i.e. AVS is an ideal candidate for multithreading, and it wouldn't be hard. Once you have done quite a bit of code... you should be able to work this out.

Quote:
Originally posted by HuRriC4nE
Another thing that I think is needed is a more accurate spekrum/oscillograph. In Avs it is limited to 500 or so isn't it?
This is how the Winamp plugin API works. Personally the accuracy of the data is not really needed for AVS... people are more likely to complain about the graphics first, and very few presets use osc/spec values for anything meaningful.

Hope this helps somewhat.

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Old 2nd January 2008, 17:47   #64
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the problem is not so much in avs i think, though i'd love to see it to have a future it won't get. if there was wider support for third party players, my motivation would certainly be higher. when you watch the avs submissions on deviantart, you will notice a massive drop of comments and downloads, and there it was where the scene and appreciators came together. what other sign do you need to see avs is clearly dead. what are the chances? in the unlikely case that some of the above comes true and avs gets a major update, my guess is it wouldn't change a lot as time makes people forget. the high popularity of other mediaplayers than winamp and the increasing shifts away from windows don't better the situation.
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Old 3rd January 2008, 01:50   #65
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someone explain to me when fridge died in the arse aswell?

evidence:
http://web.archive.org/web/200511270...idge.acko.net/
http://fridge.acko.net/
tell me the difference please?
Sorry that i havent submitted mattfury v2 (even if it is shit...) its just avs crashes everytime i try to load a new preset on vista..

i am not normal, no really.
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Old 3rd January 2008, 14:31   #66
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Wow ... this will take me a while to answer...

Yeah Jheriko you're right maybe that we are a little too ambitious/illusionated (sry for my language btw). But Avs needs a new start - or at least the idea of visuals moving to music. Other applications like milkdrop are far away of the capability of avs.
I don't really want to revive avs. Actually i would like to have a totally new program that is not a plugin. It should be an external programm, that can get music data via plugins in those media players. Maybe this could also work via LAN. (In a club there could be one PC for the music and one for the visuals - just to be sure that if the visuals-pc crashes there is still music playing).
Yathosho said a while ago that we're livin in "HD-age" but avs is still bound to resolutions like 300*400. With the actual AVS this won't change.
I do want to have a new visualization-programm, and I will at least try to make it - even if it's just for my own.

.....

What did you mean with design?

.....

Yeah i know it will take it's time(a lot), but GC and I are a good team with avs - why couldn't this work with programming? We're not in a hurry, and we both really really like avs - i think we have the right motivation.
For me the only way is to rebuild the whole thing from the ground.

.....

The winamp plugin works with this 500(or so) band spectrums...
That's why i want to change it.
In the last months (especially as i found out how to use the megabuf --big THANKS for the avtrans!!!) i realised, that with some spectrumanalyzing routines there could be lots of things made. A 500 band spec is good already, but if i want avs(or whatever) to realize how many different tones there are used the spec data has to be more accurate (at least in the mid-frequencies).
I more and more like to get my presets very sensitive for the music. I don't really use the "beat" anymore (when you're listening to prog-metal, or flamenco the beat-detection is reacting very bad.

Maybe ... if you're still into it we will ask you for help in a year or more.

my newest release (aug2007):
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/61408641/
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Old 3rd January 2008, 15:42   #67
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Don't be put off by me, but don't be too eager. Programming is very very hard and I suck at it. I've been doing it for about 17 years now (!), since I was 7-8 years old... and I still suck. Something like AVS is miles away from a first project, its the sort of thing you write after a lot of smaller programs to gain the know how. Some of the things invloved, like the scripting language or the graphics algorithsm, are specialist topics even amongst programmers. The average code monkey will go his entire career without having any idea on how to create these things.

Beware HD btw, it really underwhelms me after years of using monitors. TVs are miles behind... AVS presets can push HD res (see the <several years old I might add> HiRes pack included with J7, most of those presets are smooth running at 1080p (1920-1080) (the highest res HD standard afaik)).

But do feel free to ask me questions. I'm much better at explaining how to do things I once did than actually doing them ever again...


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Old 4th January 2008, 19:05   #68
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hehe
I know you're right that avs is very average, but I will at least try it out.

my newest release (aug2007):
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/61408641/
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Old 4th January 2008, 20:35   #69
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<Brain dump with no particular topic...>

I notice that the proponents of the "AVS revival" are almost always wide eyed noobs who more often than not disappear entirely from the avs scene after a couple of months, so forgive my pessimism.

J is right about AVS/Programmable Visualisation being a really quite complicated project. AVS for example has a frikkin compiler in it, and there is real world research that says compilers are roughly twice as complicated as conventional programs. Combine that with some fairly hardcore graphics/dsp, and a seriously challenging interface design problem and you've got yourself a MAJOR project. If I was at a company making that piece of software I would relish it, but trying to do it for the hell of it in your spare time is something else. And as J pointed out its entirely not the sort of project you would attempt without some good programming experience. And yes, Jason is awesome.

HuRriC4nE: Most commercial VJ packages output 320 x 240, the resolution of your monitor is not representative of club screens, projectors etc... Thats not to say home users dont want good resolutions tho (and its perfectly plausible with hardware acceleration). Also, regarding the resolution of spectrum data, 512 bands is plenty enough, I challenge you to give me one example where you would need more.

http://PAK-9.deviantart.com

...innit
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Old 9th January 2008, 08:43   #70
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Sad...

Anyway, we'll probably be looking for one other reviewer... someone who's more active. I really don't know why they never did it before. Haven't had a proper day's rest because of this retarded quasi bologna system for ages now and even when I could find the time, it first crashed on me and then I lost my pass. Blah. It's supposed to be working now and the pass is recoverable, but I can visit only sporadically. Even if it's "dying", that probably isn't enough.
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Old 10th January 2008, 13:43   #71
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Not completely dead then.

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Old 12th January 2008, 06:06   #72
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there'll always be someone out there making avs.
it's never going to die.
thousands of people still play old dos games, me included.
i have an original NES and i occasionally get out my super mario bros cassette, blow out the dust and fire it up.
even if all the regulars stop making presets, there'll still be some people out there who keep going.
and i'm determined to be one of them.

Life's a game, break the rules
Click here
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Old 13th January 2008, 19:51   #73
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ok, i get it. but actually i thought it to be a bit like that. just like in avs, you can't just start off being a pro. well that was stating the obvious, but anyway - i guess once this get's started and assume we're not bored away or freaked out by the project and it get's to a slightly decent state, we might get some help further down the way.
possibly maybe...

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i think i know who you meant...
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Old 23rd January 2008, 12:58   #74
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I cannot return.
My work' schedule is hard and is getting worse.

Winamp forever

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Old 17th September 2008, 00:09   #75
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Anytime I have access, I will be AVSing. (like my new word, AVS is a verb now) I've been studying coding for a few yers now, all the while thinking of an AVS overhaul, but thats a little out of my reach of yet. One can dream though.......
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