Old 25th November 2001, 23:27   #121
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Quote:
Originally posted by NeoRenegade
Crazydude999, you disgust me.

By your definition, it would be legal for siamese twins to kill each other.
If I were a conjoined twin, and my twin was sucking the life out of me, I'd rather he die than I. And if I died for some reason, I'd hope that the officials wouldn't hold my corpse responsible for his death.
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Old 25th November 2001, 23:39   #122
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Old 26th November 2001, 00:01   #123
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"Thou shalt not kill" — God
The Hypocratic Oath - Hypocrites

Two very good reasons for doctors to not want to perform abortions.
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Old 26th November 2001, 00:09   #124
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Originally posted by NeoRenegade
"Thou shalt not kill" — God
The Hypocratic Oath - Hypocrites

Two very good reasons for doctors to not want to perform abortions.
Yet God does it everyday. And it's Hippocrates. A hypocrite is a bad thing.
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Old 26th November 2001, 01:06   #125
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Originally posted by NeoRenegade
Crazydude999, you disgust me.
HEY!
Just because everyone else is disgusted by you, doesn't mean you have to find a partner
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Old 26th November 2001, 02:26   #126
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Originally posted by NeoRenegade
Crazydude999, you disgust me.

By your definition, it would be legal for siamese twins to kill each other.
That isn't what i mean. let me elaborate a bit.
When two people have sex, and a pregnancy occurs, the baby attaches to the mother (basic reproduction lesson). there fore it is leeching off of the mother. Siamese twins leech off each other, BUT, they were made that way. they cant help it
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Old 26th November 2001, 02:43   #127
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I am a Catholic and believe it is an act of murder as well. It's just sick. People shouldn't be having sex if they don't want kids. Before birth control and abortion was invented, if you had sex, you got kids. Or a miscarriage/stillbirth on some unfortunate occasions. I realize that it can be a natural human urge, but we are not animals, and we should be able to control it. We aren't rabbits. If you have sex, you had better not discover that you're gonna be a parent and run around screaming "What? I didn't expect that?" because it is to be expected.
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Old 26th November 2001, 02:48   #128
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Originally posted by Angry Weasel
I am a Catholic and believe it is an act of murder as well. It's just sick. People shouldn't be having sex if they don't want kids. Before birth control and abortion was invented, if you had sex, you got kids. Or a miscarriage/stillbirth on some unfortunate occasions. I realize that it can be a natural human urge, but we are not animals, and we should be able to control it. We aren't rabbits. If you have sex, you had better not discover that you're gonna be a parent and run around screaming "What? I didn't expect that?" because it is to be expected.
not for pleasure?
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Old 26th November 2001, 03:44   #129
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angry Weasel
I am a Catholic and believe it is an act of murder as well. It's just sick. People shouldn't be having sex if they don't want kids. Before birth control and abortion was invented, if you had sex, you got kids. Or a miscarriage/stillbirth on some unfortunate occasions. I realize that it can be a natural human urge, but we are not animals, and we should be able to control it. We aren't rabbits. If you have sex, you had better not discover that you're gonna be a parent and run around screaming "What? I didn't expect that?" because it is to be expected.
U, are a fool. what you have not noted in your argument is what if a woman was RAPED? hmm? occur to you? i don't think so.



oh and shall i recite "if any sperm is wasted... god gets quite irrate" - monty python song about catholics





god i hate religion...

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Old 26th November 2001, 05:15   #130
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People ...

People ... Having sex does not get you pregnant.

Ejaculating inside the woman does ....

Make the defination straight.

If you shoot inside ... you have a high chance of getting the lady into the maternity ward.

Sex is not the cause of pregnancy, stupidity is.

Now that, that is in PERSPECTIVE.

The choice is not whether you can or cannot "abort" the child
The choice is wheter you can live with that decision.

Condoms and pills are important only when the male partners have tendency to shoot early or have no control over his urges whatsoever ...

Sex is a two party thing, and it does not always require penetration.

Sex is a process of actions in which two party archives climax (both physically and mentally) thus entering a condition of bliss.

SEX is a short form for sexual acts, thus if you think properly MASTURBATION is a act of SEX ...

That is why I suddenly feel that the discussion have left the GIS of the thread, the case in discussion is whether a person can be given the right to abort a 'child' in its early stage of developement.

That decision can never been given a proper answer untill someone states that a fetus is a living entity , LEGALLY. Untill then, it is up to the party involve (the two or more sexual party in the act) to decide on the responsibility that is weighting in their souls.

That said, there are a lot of reasons for us to give up living, the environment, the corruptions, the unknown and countless other excuses that is around us everyday. But there are also reasons to live on, to fight the better fights, to do make a difference, to better the world or just plain old 'I am afraid to die'. All are valid, it is up to us to make the choice and live (or die) with it.

All in all, this is just my personal view, hope I did not make too many people mad at me.

Sometimes it is just being me that counts
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Old 26th November 2001, 07:14   #131
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and the question that i've asked myself

why are we even here?


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Old 26th November 2001, 07:21   #132
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angry Weasel
I am a Catholic and believe it is an act of murder as well. It's just sick. People shouldn't be having sex if they don't want kids. Before birth control and abortion was invented, if you had sex, you got kids. Or a miscarriage/stillbirth on some unfortunate occasions. I realize that it can be a natural human urge, but we are not animals, and we should be able to control it. We aren't rabbits. If you have sex, you had better not discover that you're gonna be a parent and run around screaming "What? I didn't expect that?" because it is to be expected.

oh and another thing, in 'olden days' if a child was not wanted, it was either left to starve or killed AFTER birth. now that, is murder.

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Old 26th November 2001, 08:36   #133
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Originally posted by NeoRenegade
"Thou shalt not kill" — God
God's existence has never been proved so far.
Objection overruled.
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Old 26th November 2001, 15:30   #134
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Neo is sentanced to life!


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Old 26th November 2001, 16:56   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by Twilightseer

God's existence has never been proved so far.
Objection overruled.
In that case, it's okay to kill people then?
Wait.. I'm a newbie. I'll shutup.

Well, if someone is just being careless, I think having an abortion is wrong, but if it's something like them being raped, they should be supportedd for their decision.
About the conscious thought.. well, even if they don't, isn't abortion depriving someone of a long and fulfilling life? I mean, imagine if you were deprived of life. What a bummer.
I've never said the word "bummer" in my life..
Oh, and that whole "leeching off the host" thing? Pregnancy isn't a virus, it's most likely the "host's" fault.

Every sperm is sacred... every sperm is good.. if a sperm is wasted..
..
Damnit I can't remember the line!
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Old 26th November 2001, 17:00   #136
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Crazydude... the whole leeching thing yuo're saying a about pregnancy...

So you're saying that I wouldn't be right in calling you a complete idiot and lunatic if you stuck a leech to your own arm on purpose and then killed it because you didn't want it there, even though you put it there?

I know we're talking about a leech here, a creature which is essentially a parasite, but it really is cruel!
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Old 26th November 2001, 18:56   #137
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well done izchan you put it in perspective ,and i personaly agree with you .
there is a distinction between having sex and making love ,if 2 people just want sex thats fine ,but preperation in anything is a must ,there is no excuse for the woman to become pregnant no matter what the arguments are.most young people arent even in love so they just have sex for pleasure (which is fine) but like anything you like doing ,you have to make certain that all possible precautions are taken
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Old 26th November 2001, 20:31   #138
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Quote:
Originally posted by NeoRenegade
I know we're talking about a leech here, a creature which is essentially a parasite, but it really is cruel!
Not to RM. Give him a fork and a knife and I bet he'd eat that sucker
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Old 26th November 2001, 22:56   #139
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Just face it. All of you, and most of the world, are sadistic and overly sexual motherfuckers.

Si hi to Satan for me when you get to hell, because I don't see myself going there.
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Old 26th November 2001, 23:02   #140
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what gives you that idea neo,most people who cant offer any of there own opinions usualy end up like you and start to be obnoxious
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Old 26th November 2001, 23:24   #141
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Quote:
Originally posted by NeoRenegade
Si hi to Satan for me when you get to hell, because I don't see myself going there.
As a close friend once said, "it'll be very lonely for you in heaven"
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Old 27th November 2001, 00:30   #142
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Quote:
Originally posted by colicab

Every sperm is sacred... every sperm is good.. if a sperm is wasted..
I guess you have never masterbated then? That would be concidered wasted sperm


Neo, you swear in the forums, so I guess you swear in real life also. You are not perfect. No one is perfect. How can you possibly think you are better than everyone else just because you dont have sex? I commend you for holding back and waiting, but it does not make you better than anyone else.

It says in the bible that god will forgive you for your sins if you just ask for forgiveness. I am sure we will all see you in heaven.

izchan thanks for the great post ~ Fantastic words!

~ Missy
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Old 27th November 2001, 01:35   #143
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if you don't masterbate and you get a wet dream, that's your body's way of getting rid of sperm, why would god make us that way? that's what that funny monty python song is talking about, how catholics would actually believe it, but that it's all a hipocritical lie!

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Old 27th November 2001, 02:49   #144
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Thank you Missy

I totally understand your point.

What really gets me down is how generally these days, the less good you really are, the better you do in life.
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Old 27th November 2001, 03:21   #145
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Quote:
Originally posted by NeoRenegade
What really gets me down is how generally these days, the less good you really are, the better you do in life.
Define 'good'. For some, good means possessing the qualities of ingenuity, perseverance, and wit.
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Old 27th November 2001, 08:38   #146
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In that case, it's okay to kill people then?
What I'm saying is that you shouldn't use God as an alibi for anything.
Killing people is not okay, as you put it. What makes me say that is my sense of morality, not some divinity of any kind whose existence has never been proved.

Quote:
Originally posted by NeoRenegade
Just face it. All of you, and most of the world, are sadistic and overly sexual motherfuckers. ?
We probably are. That would make you a masochistic and overly unsexual
non-fucker.

Btw, Jesus didn't smoke, didn't drink and didn't have sex.
As a result, he died at age 33
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Old 27th November 2001, 11:36   #147
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Quote:
Originally posted by NeoRenegade
Just face it. All of you, and most of the world, are sadistic and overly sexual motherfuckers.

Si hi to Satan for me when you get to hell, because I don't see myself going there.

I'd like to be able to save that little comment and send it to you in about ten years - see would you agree then. Assuming, of course, that a woman has let you near her between now and then.

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Old 27th November 2001, 13:04   #148
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Originally posted by ethan_h
Assuming, of course, that a woman has let you near her between now and then.
If he uses the same social skills that he does here, it's not likely to ever occur
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Old 27th November 2001, 15:55   #149
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I define "good" as possessing the values or charity and patience.

Of course I don't fit that definition perfectly. After all, nobody is perfect; no definition is perfect either.

And most people only occasionally even fit their own definition of "good".
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Old 27th November 2001, 16:30   #150
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there is nothing wrong with killing ppl, or abortion, its natural. The body can abort a baby to protect the mother, i know lets start a campaign against that, we could get rid of all those cells in every woman in the world, and bomb clinics that allow women to keep those cells, w00t lets call it "negative cell".
yes if some dude came into my living room and killed my bro and mum and dad yeah i would be pissed off, who wouldn't but its natural, in eturn i'll kill him, or someone else who gets in my way. animals kill each other. were animals but with brains, proove to me that ducks don't have brains and can't talk to each other or play scrabble, you can't, why, because of human concept that scrabble uses englisyh words and animals can't speak english, ok well is punjabi any different from what a duck says, no its not. its accepted because ppl who speak punjabi are generally humans, so lets make a language called duck, spoken by humans, then it would be accepted by soceity and anyone taking the piss can be done in by the racism laws.

Got it?
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Old 27th November 2001, 16:54   #151
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We are not animals with brains: animals have brains. We are animals with conciences, and therein lies the difference. Man, you are messed up - by your rules if I didn't have an abortion, then regretted it 2 months later I could just kill the kid and still be in the right - after all it's only natural to kill and be killed. Yes abortions happen naturally, as do deaths - but it's illegal to kill someone even though death is natural. Plus, animals don't go around ripping their young out of their wombs - they may have natural abortions but they don't have unnatural ones.
I repeat: we are animals with conciences - but we seem to be ignoring it more and more often nowadays. Doesn't that just make us smart animals?

"Curiosity, kitten, doesn't have to mean you're on your own"
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Old 27th November 2001, 23:32   #152
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7icha7d. Just wanted to let you know, I don't think you mean't "contiousness". If you did, you're mistaken. Contiousness is not something only humans pocess.

And }}Killer Wombat{{. As for your Language theory. Many types of monkey's, like chimpanzies, are capable of being fluint in sign language. How does that work into your theory of humans and their treatment of animals or whatever? I don't know... I'm too tired to think in depth.
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Old 28th November 2001, 03:26   #153
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Why do abortions happend?

Just a thought,

Does anyone here know WHY does an abortion happend?

Personally I just think that the person does not want the child to be born, am I correct?

Now the question will then be WHY does the parent does not want the child to be born?


Is that the MORAL question that you are all figthing about?
Or is it the LEGAL question that you are all fighthing about?

Make the question straight.
If you jumble the two together you will never get an answer, and just end up arguing whether the air belongs to you or the public (which is a nice argument to discuss too)

GOD will judge us on what we do, that is a CHRISTIAN fact.
(note that I said CHRISTIAN)
That need not be disputed, because like Einstein's theories, it takes time to be proven.

Abortion of life is never a good thing, whatever the reasons. Even a rape victim does not really have the MORAL right to take away a life, because by doing so they have just becomed just like the rapist that RAPED her of HER LIFE. A rapist does not just rape your body, it rapes your soul and rapes your LIFE. Note that a sexual act is a sexual act to the body no matter how and when we do it, the difference lays in the psycology of the person being raped.

But with that said, it is acceptable to the common people that a rape victim should be allowed to abort the child that she was involuntory GIVEN. Mainly due to the reason that no one wants to take responsibility of that child after it is born, which is understandable. But does aborting the child MAKES IT MORALLY CORRECT?

Now that I have put myself in the position of a live or die with my following answer, I will like to tell people about a simple phrase that I have live by for some time ...

Quote:
We do what we do, because of who we are and what we want to be.
My answer ... ?

Is to do what you feel to be the right thing. There is no legal or moral obligations to be met in this kind of scenario. When faced in the fork road, no one can make the decision for you other than yourself. There is always a choice and you will pick one and live with it for the rest of your life.

Other people's opinion should not govern your reality. Sometimes we do things that are widely unpopular but in our heart we know that those things need to be done. So do what you need to do and live on.

I am in no way asking people to abort their child, nor am I supporting those who don't.

What I ask is that people who are in these scenarios understand one thing.

Pick a road, walk it and live on. Be responsible to your own decisions and hopefully you will not regret your own actions. Because at the end of the day, no one else can feel what you are feeling inside your heart, whether happy or sad.

The power is in you. (quote from captain planet)

Sometimes it is just being me that counts
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Old 28th November 2001, 04:09   #154
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Re: Why do abortions happend?

Quote:
Originally posted by izchan
But with that said, it is acceptable to the common people that a rape victim should be allowed to abort the child that she was involuntory GIVEN. Mainly due to the reason that no one wants to take responsibility of that child after it is born, which is understandable. But does aborting the child MAKES IT MORALLY CORRECT?
I'd think the #1 reason to abort a rape-given child is becuase of the idea that your child would be half-the guy who raped you!
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Old 28th November 2001, 08:31   #155
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Quote:
Originally posted by NeoRenegade
"Thou shalt not kill" — God
Oh, right, when did god say that?
And did he by the same time PROVE that he is god?

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Old 28th November 2001, 08:40   #156
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Quote:
Originally posted by jns

Oh, right, when did god say that?
er... it's one of the ten commandments, the sixth, to be precise

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Old 28th November 2001, 08:51   #157
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Yeah, well, anyway, god did not say it.

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Old 28th November 2001, 12:16   #158
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Re: Re: Why do abortions happend?

Quote:
Originally posted by SNYder
I'd think the #1 reason to abort a rape-given child is becuase of the idea that your child would be half-the guy who raped you!
Point taken .. but is it not the same thing I said

Quote:
Originally posted by Izchan
Mainly due to the reason that no one wants to take responsibility of that child after it is born, which is understandable.
I am not saying that the reason itself is not tolerated or encouraged by the public. I am just addressing that people do not want to take care of the child because of whatever reasons that is available.

But is the reason that the child having GENETIC relation to the rapist a reason to abort on a fetus or worst yet an newly born child? Can it even be considered MORALLY acceptable? The child is not the rapist, it is as much a rape victim as much as the MOTHER is?

Is aborting the new life a way of solving such issues?
Note that I am now solely talking about rape victimes and abortions based on this and no other cases.

It is a sensitive issue, because it deals with the emotions of the person involved. Which is why I said in my previous post that within these kind of scenario, all MORAL and LEGAL terms cannot be taken into consideration, the person must make a decision, and then live with it. It is none of our business if she keeps or aborts that life, because she is the only one that will have to live with that decision, the other party (I mean the fetus, not the rapist) is already dead.

I don't really want to make this into a 'heated' discussion, because I feel that it is really the decision of the woman that is more important, asking a mother (of any kind on any situation) to abort their own child will eventually come back and haunt them.

The woman is already raped of her dignity, why should she be raped of her peace of mind? It is only through strength of self can one pull out of these murky waters. So whatever they decide it is our duty as one person to another to support them in their choice.

Don't you agree?

In my line of sentence, you might think that I am encouraging her to give up the child, but the truth is that I am asking her to do the thing that she can live with for the rest of her life. Her decision will decide her own faith in life, the baby is not even in the equation yet. Can she live with the DECISION that she make? If yes than she should do it.

It is about living with no regrets
It is about living with no turning back
It is about living.

right?

Sometimes it is just being me that counts
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Old 29th November 2001, 01:31   #159
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We don't just need the right to abortion, we need to make abortion mandatory! Accidental pregnancy is totally understandable. It's an honest mistake. It sucks, but it happens. Getting pregnant on purpose?! Those people are the screwed up ones. So selfish! 40,000 people starve to death every day, 16,000 of which are children. And people have the gall to create more mouths to leave unfed? Jesus christ, adopt one of the little Chinese girls being dunked into a river right now if you want a kid of your own.
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Old 29th November 2001, 09:24   #160
jns
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Back to what I said: God did not say that.

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