Old 24th March 2008, 21:39   #1
swingdjted
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I need new tires.

That's right, I came to a media player forum to tell you all that I need four 205/65/15 tires, preferably Michelin or some other very reliable and well-rated brand, and at least H-Rated (up to 125 MPH).

My current/old tires on this car are:
Michelin Pilot XGT H4

Pros of the old tires:
These tires have been quite nice to have. They grip like no other tire I have owned, and they do very well in emergency steering & breaking, and they make it much more difficult to spin when I take off at a green light. They worked well on both dry and wet surfaces.

Cons of the old tires:
They only lasted just over the expected 40,000 mile rating (after subtracting the miles used in winter with different tires). That didn't bother me much; I'm only interested in performance for summer tires. This past winter, I forgot to switch to winter tires during the first snow storm, and these were no good at all in snow, even with traction control enabled. Again, not much of a problem since it was more my fault for not switching them to the snow/mud tires.

I was able to get the set for under $480 out the door (including tax, mounting, balancing, valve stems, etc.)(4 years ago).

So, do any of you know much about tires, or at least enough to tell me what kind of brands to look at and what to avoid? I'm also trying to find good prices after finding a good model, because my tire guy is willing to match any price that I find elsewhere.

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Old 24th March 2008, 21:52   #2
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There are summer tires that aren't at least H-rated?

(yeah, I'm from leadfoot country)
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Old 24th March 2008, 22:17   #3
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Yeah, that's just what I call them. I used to use all-season tires in my first car but couldn't believe the difference in stopping ability and cornering ability compared to performance tires. Plus, around here at my new location, the roads are straight, flat, and smooth for literally hundreds of miles/kilometers making high speed very easy/common, although sometimes pheasants or a big mule deer, stray cow or buffalo will walk out onto the road, and I need to stop immediately.

Personally, I think the tires are of the most important parts of a car, especially if the driver takes extra risks, and I don't mind spending good money or lots of research time on them.

Keep in mind that for some reason, "H" rated tires are rated to safely go faster than many other letter ratings that come later in the alphabet for some strange reason.

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Old 25th March 2008, 01:03   #4
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les schwab has h and v performance tires....and i think you live in the old mans territory.

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Old 25th March 2008, 01:51   #5
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get z get z get z.

Just remember to change 'em in the winter

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Old 25th March 2008, 02:05   #6
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In regards to G2

I would think this should be true on all cars of all places, but it isn't true here.

(from wikipedia)

Quote:
In some countries, tires are required by law to exceed the maximum speed of the vehicle they are mounted on with regards to their speed rating code. In Germany, tires that are not fit for a car's or motorcycle's particular maximum speed are illegal to mount unless a warning sticker stating the allowed maximum speed is placed within clear sight of the driver inside the vehicle. Some manufacturers will install a speed governor if a vehicle is ordered with tires rated below the vehicle's maximum speed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_code

So I would need either better tires than H or a governor to be legal there. Wikipedia says H goes to 130mph, and although my car is capable of more, I doubt I'll be attempting it. I do like to speed, but I just don't know how safe it is to push it that hard, especially in an area where crosswinds can have unexpected gusts to throw off your steering.

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Old 25th March 2008, 10:42   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by swingdjted
Quote:
In Germany, tires that are not fit for a car's or motorcycle's particular maximum speed are illegal to mount unless a warning sticker stating the allowed maximum speed is placed within clear sight of the driver inside the vehicle.
And even then it's afaik only legal for M+S (=winter) tires.

Otoh for countries with general speed limits to require tires that are only needed for illegal speeding wouldn't make much sense either.
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Old 25th March 2008, 13:02   #8
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Quote:
So, do any of you know much about tires, or at least enough to tell me what kind of brands to look at and what to avoid?
I like Yokohamas. Reasonably priced, and I've yet to have a problem with the couple of sets I've gone through (though to be fair, my experience only goes as far as SUV/light truck tires, last set of performance tires I bought were Pirellis. Good tires, but overpriced usually).

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Old 25th March 2008, 13:37   #9
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My last set of tires were Sigma Supreme TRs. They were decent tires, but not outstanding. Before those, I had a set of Dunlops. Again, not bad, but nothing overly special. My current set of tires are BFGoodrich Radial T/A (P235/60R15 98S). These tires are exceptional on my S10. Once I adjusted the air pressures to compensate for my truck's weight distribution, these tires handle like nothing else. I bought them from Tire Kingdom for about $460 (full set with mounting, balancing, valves, stems, and installation).
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Old 25th March 2008, 15:18   #10
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i think my toyos are hawt.Payed $200.00 each.I just upgraded my wheels to these Enkei and had the inserts painted to match mah car.Now those were freakin expensive..
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Old 4th January 2009, 21:48   #11
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Bigass bump...

I ended up getting some Michelin Primacy MXV4 tires late this past summer. They're rated to 149 mph / 240 kph (and I doubt the car is geared high enough to go that fast). They are extremely well rated when braking and cornering on wet/light snow surfaces, are good when on dry surfaces (maybe not as good as racing tires though), and still maintain a silent comfortable ride on rough surfaces. I originally didn't want all-season tires, but the tire guy said he'd exchange for better if I didn't like them, and I ended up being glad he recommended them.

For the first few months so far, I've had a lot of good luck with them. My only complaint is something that probably has little to do with the tires themselves - they go nearly flat in cold weather due to the air contraction, and I have to pump them up some more when it gets extra cold. I've been told that if I pay extra, the tire shop can pump in some special gas that doesn't expand and contract as much as a common air compressor's air, but I don't know much about it. Does anyone have a link for that?

The real reason for this bump-post is something that a friend emailed me that I found interesting and a bit alarming:

*tire age when "brand new"*

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Old 4th January 2009, 21:56   #12
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Nitrogen. From what I understand, nitrogen doesn't expand or contract like normal air in extreme temperature variances. Nitrogen is also a noble gas, so it's not flammable. The only problem is that you have to take your tires back to a tire shop that supplies nitrogen if you ever need to adjust the pressures for different loads.
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Old 4th January 2009, 22:16   #13
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Thanks for the fast and informative reply.

The next question would then be - isn't a tire already almost full of non-nitrogen when mounted "before filling"? In that case, only some of the added air pumped for added pressure would be nitrogen, while the rest would be whatever was in the tire already.

I could see in an inner tube situation, you could almost completely empty it and then completely refill with nitrogen, but in a tubeless tire, it would be lower concentration. Does it make much of a difference?

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Old 4th January 2009, 22:42   #14
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I'm not entirely sure how it works since I've never seen a nitrogen filling system before. I do know that the air we breathe is mostly nitrogen already, but I see your point. I'm not sure how they replace the air that's already in the tire with pure nitrogen. Maybe there's some sort of special filtering mechanism that they place on the valve stem to pump the nitrogen in while pushing the air out before installing the valve itself. Or maybe they just vacuum the air out first.
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Old 4th January 2009, 23:45   #15
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Yea, air is about 78% N2. However, N2 is not a noble gas (those are only He, Ne, Ar, Kr, Xe, Rn, and Uuo --- far right side of periodic table). However, N2 is a diatomic gas that has its valence filled in a similar manner to the noble gases. Thus, it is a diatomic gas that acts as a noble gas.

You are correct that the thermal expansion coefficient of nitrogen is much less than oxygen. Hence the advantage over N2, you can keep the same psig year round in the tire.

I've had my tires filled with N2 until I decided it was too much of a pain to go back to the plant to fix everything (they do drain your tires and then fill with N2). It's nice, the N2 works better and you don't have to worry about tire pressure adjustments come different seasons. It is a downright pain in the ass to go someplace else to deal with your tires (at least for me, hence the reason I stopped).

Yes the lack of air does make that much of a difference. Oxygen is a bitch in any amount and it does not behave well and will react with just about anything.

Sorry ... the chemist in me came out and I just had to reply. Carry on
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Old 5th January 2009, 03:35   #16
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Quote:
However, N2 is not a noble gas.
My bad. I was thinking of NE rather than N.
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Old 5th January 2009, 04:39   #17
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Ne


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Old 5th January 2009, 05:27   #18
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My bad. I held the Shift key down too long.
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Old 5th September 2012, 07:42   #19
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About a month ago I bought some new tires for the truck. I really miss car tire prices. If you ever consider buying a pickup truck or SUV, remember that tire prices for them are in a whole separate pricing category.

I picked up a new set of four Michelin LTX A/T2 tires. They were Consumer Reports rated the safest (best overall steering, braking, and acceleration grip in multiple conditions) and most puncture-resistant of all other alternatives for an off-road and on-road pickup truck. The odd thing about them is that their tread patter doesn't really look very aggressive at all. They do have a 10-ply rating for heavy payload and towing at highway speeds; normal pickup tires have 4-ply ratings.

They have a warranty of 60,000 miles, which is very high for an off-road tire. Most competitors don't warrant or give expected mileage life for off-road tires because they tend to use extremely soft rubber that wears away very quickly. For example, these replace the tires that came with the truck when purchased new, which didn't even make it to 38,000 miles. They were BF Goodrich "Rugged Trail" tires.

These Michelins are rated to grip as well or better than much knobbier tires such as the Goodrich T/A KO's and Krawlers off the road, and yet have longer treadlife more like on-road tires.

The only real problem was price. The tire store wanted nearly $1,200.00 for the set in the size I needed while I was initially shopping, but they had a "tent sale" where they gave me hot dogs, burgers, and soda while I waited and a very much discounted price of around $830.00. They tossed in a free alignment check, but they found my right front to be slightly out-of-line, which cost me another $55.00 for the actual alignment job.

They also tried to charge me about $105 for a new pressure-sensing valve stem because the old one was leaking. Didn't valve stems used to be like 25 cents? Since when are they 400 times higher in price? It turns out this truck has little wireless sensors in all the tires' valve stems that tell the dash board if the tire pressure is low, and they cost same as literally 400 cars worth of traditional valve stems to replace! Luckily I found out in a parts store that there are tiny guts in there that can be easily replaced for about $2.00, and that saved me.

Overall these tires are a bit more smooth and quiet than the old Goodrich tires. Obviously still a lot louder and stiffer than any luxury car though. They seem to yank tree trunks through the mud and pull stumps as well as the old ones. On the road, they seem far better when cornering and braking than what I had, which were not good at all, especially on smooth rainy roads. No snow or cold-temp testing yet though. I'd recommend these to anyone that uses a truck for everything it can do.

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Old 5th September 2012, 07:50   #20
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$105 for a stem?! That's ridiculous the most I've ever paid was $2.50...

The 60 000 mile warranty is nice but I wonder if they would actually last that long.

Keep us posted on the wear and tear you get over time, I might just buy these if they turn out right. We use our truck for roughly the same things you do. Lots of gravel roads/mud/highway driving.

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Old 5th September 2012, 07:59   #21
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I agree that it'll be good to post again over time, because it will determine whether or not they're worth buying again when they're done. So far so good, but they're still only a month old with maybe 2500 miles on them.

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Old 5th September 2012, 14:55   #22
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I remember when I owned my Wrangler. Rarely did I skate away for less then $800 when I needed new tires. Always got those Goodrich T/A's on em.

Now I have performance tires (not on the wrangler) and those are even worse. My care came stock with Continental Sport Contact II's. Piss on the bad reviews on them, they are kick ass tires. But they also ran about $350 a tire when I was looking to have them replaced. I barely squeaked out 20k on them.

So, I off and bought some Pirelli P Nero Zero's; about half the cost of the Continentals and are rated for 45k, or so I think. I should have spent the extra $400 and gotten the Continentals...
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Old 6th September 2012, 00:38   #23
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Old 6th September 2012, 02:53   #24
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I'm way past woo-woo.

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Old 20th September 2012, 20:59   #25
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When I was a kid, my dad was able to get a set of off-road tires for his 1985 Jeep Cherokee for a little over $100. Man, inflation is a bitch.
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Old 30th September 2012, 20:30   #26
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Here they are about 2 months old; still look fine. I've already run over a screw which pushed all the way in, but somehow it didn't cause a leak or loss in pressure, even after a long time of having it pulled out. For some reason the tires in my wife's car have already needed 2 plugs, but these truck tires seem to not puncture as easily, even though they've run over a lot of glass and metal scrap. I only found out about the screw because I kept hearing the tick tick tick tick sound when driving near mountainside rock walls that reflected the sound. I got sick of the noise, thinking it was a wedged pebble, but it turned out to be a screw jammed in there. So far so good.




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Old 30th January 2013, 00:43   #27
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I had to buy new tires again, this time for the wife's car. The car is only one and a half years old (bought new literally out of the show room with zero miles), and has only 17K miles on it, but the bullshit Bridgestone tires that came on it were absolute junk and are already bald. My wife is a pretty conservative, slow-pased driver, and yet the Bridgestones went more bald than Patrick Stewart before they ever hit 20,000 miles.

I called the Toyota dealer, but as I expected, they said I would have to take it up with Bridgestone (that's pretty much what all car companies say about their tire manufactures). So, I called Bridgestone, but they said that they put lower quality tires because Toyota demanded the lowest rolling resistance possible in an effort to increase fuel economy. They said by policy they weren't required to help me but they might if I got the tread depth measured at an authorized Bridgestone dealer. I actually have the tool that measures tread depth with a digital reading, but they wouldn't accept my readings, even with high resolution pictures showing the measurements in progress. Worse yet, the best they could do was give me a pro-rated discount on the purchase of more of the same exact bullshit tire.

I called Toyota Customer Service and told them about it. They said the same - only a slight discount due to the fact that they only had treadwear 300 rating and weren't designed to last long. I reminded them that I am a repeat customer paying dozens of thousands of dollars, up front, each time I shop for a car. They increased the discount but still said I would have to pay hundreds to take the same brand/make/model of tire that was clearly pathetic. I wanted to buy a better brand and grade of tire, like the Michelins they put on other models, but they refused that option.

I told them to forget it and that I will much more seriously consider competitors when shopping for my next new vehicle.

I then got sick of dealing with them and just started calling around the local guys for pricing for these Michelin Latitude touring tires. Most wanted $850-$950. The best priced place offered them for $730 (all prices after tax, mounting, balancing, etc.) He offered the HP high performance version of these for $5 more per tire, but despite being higher speed rated, they had much shorter life expectancy and lower fuel economy ratings. Plus, these local guys said they'd rotate them any time I wanted, and patch/plug them if I ever needed it, for free.

These Michelins carry a 60,000 mile warranty, are very highly rated across the board, and have actually increased the dashboard-display mileage estimate by 1.5 miles per gallon since buying them. There are tires that last longer, but they're shitty at handling and braking, especially in adverse conditions.

Sorry about the snow that is making the pictures a little less clean.




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Old 30th January 2013, 22:06   #28
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I just got tires for my F150 70,000 mile Hankook DynaPro
( no taxes hidden charges) out the door 136.00 each

Free Shipping UPS. I had them in 5 days. No Bullshiting around.


My tires
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/di...w=false&cs=255



discounttiredirect.com
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/di...dTireSearch.do



Found it Lower?
Let us Know! Discount Tire Direct won't be undersold!



I'll use them again.
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Old 31st January 2013, 04:59   #29
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I would have paid $42 less at discounttiredirect for the exact make/model tires I bought, however I would have had to pay someone to install them and wouldn't have the free lifetime road hazard or rotating coverage. I can plug and rotate myself, but it takes a lot longer. To get all that it probably would have evened out. Sounds like we both got pretty reasonable deals.

About the date code I referenced a long time ago when posting a link to an article and video about old sold as new tires, here's what it looks like. The 5112 means it was made in the 51st week of 2012, meaning the second to last week of 2012.


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Old 2nd March 2013, 22:06   #30
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Quote:
he tire shop can pump in some special gas that doesn't expand and contract as much as a common air compressor's air
Nitrogen.

Here's what Nitrofill says:

http://www.nitrofill.com/nitrogen-fi...ires-faqs.aspx

It might help your cold tire problem. I can't see it being expensive to try it. My tires are nitrogen filled. I don't know if it matters much. Costco seems to think it matters. They do it for free if you buy your tires there. You get ugly bright green valve stem caps to indicate your tires are N filled, not air.

Would your tire be less flat on a wicked cold morning? I'll bet it would. I don't really know because it doesn't get that cold here. I doubt it would be a high dollar experiment to try it.
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Old 2nd March 2013, 23:30   #31
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In 2008 when I started this thread, I lived in South Dakota, and was in Iowa for a couple years in between then and now. Those places have several feet of snow on the ground right now, and some mornings are in the negative twenties Fahrenheit in temperature (even negative 30s on rare occasions). Far, far below freezing in those places.

Now I'm in West Virginia. Cold mornings are around 18-30 above zero Fahrenheit. Because of this I haven't had that flat tire morning problem as much anymore. We only have about 1-2 inches of snow on the ground right now. Still below freezing in the mornings, but not by much.

I might have been more willing to try all this if I had stayed in those colder places. The vehicles I drive have those TPMS valve stems, and I don't want to pay the $100+ to replace each of them just to make them green, although I would doubt that would be required for me.

Anyone still in a very cold place where it would be worth testing? Maybe W-W?

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Old 3rd March 2013, 03:30   #32
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I'm sure they'd just replace the valve stem caps with green ones rather than the entire valve stem. I haven't seen that done personally, but it would make sense.
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Old 3rd March 2013, 06:25   #33
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Anyone still in a very cold place where it would be worth testing? Maybe W-W?
It has not been cold here for a long time. The lowest it seems to be able to get is about -30 Celsius.
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Old 3rd March 2013, 19:08   #34
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-30C is about -22F; that's pretty cold for people in the "lower 48". At -40, both C and F are equal. In early January 2010, we hit -36F (-37.8C) in Iowa (without accounting for wind chill). That's the coldest I've ever experienced, and it was pretty windy too. I did have to pump up the tires that morning.

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Old 21st October 2017, 07:39   #35
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6 Best All Terrain Truck Tires of 2017

I in all likelihood won't possess another arrangement of boggers, atleast not four. They are completely frightful out and about, yet im constantly open to various things.
http://automobiledecor.com/best-all-...n-truck-tires/
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Old 18th December 2017, 06:50   #36
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Pretty old but good topic. Lots of great winter tires available nowadays. We've just installed the Firestone WinterForce LT on the steelies and another set of Nitto tires on cruiseralloywheels as summer tires. Cooper, Michelin, and Bridgestone all got great winter tires as well.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 16:38   #37
iomegajaz
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Originally Posted by swingdjted View Post
buffalo
Bison?

Yes, this post is 9.75 years late.

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Old 24th December 2017, 20:21   #38
swingdjted
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Yes, Bison. Any time I use the word buffalo, someone says, "You mean bison, right?", and any time I say bison, someone says, "You mean buffalo, right?".

I still have the tires on the car and truck that were mentioned on previous posts, but the pictures disappeared due to the hosting site not keeping them up.

@ mike-db (if you're still around): I'm just now getting to the end of the tires' life. I'm at around 91,000 miles on that truck now, and many of those miles were towing more than the truck is rated to tow (usually steel scrap, gravel, masonry demolition rubble, topsoil, or firewood). Many more of those miles were hauling enough firewood to completely compress the springs (to the point where the axle was touching the rubber bump stops).

Since the truck spends most of it's time being abused, it comes as little surprise that the tires didn't make their 60,000 mile expected life. My state inspection is due in February, and I'll probably replace them at around 93,000 odometer miles, minus the 38,000 that the previous set had, making these tires die at around 55,000 miles. I'm reasonably satisfied with that. I'll probably buy the same tires again.
The same model of tires for the truck will cost around a thousand dollars (that includes tax and the tires themselves, but not installation or disposal). Hopefully I can make it until inspection time in February before I have to do the job.

Don't forget to live before you die.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 10:14   #39
iomegajaz
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January 2013 to January 2018. That's good durability.

Have you seen the conjecture around the typical shelf life of a tyre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by www.tiresafetygroup.com/tires-expire-in-six-years
Tires Expire in Six Years. The evidence is clear: tires should have an expiration date. Older tires are substantially more likely to fail than newer ones. This is because tires are made mostly of rubber, and rubber degrades with age.
… but then …

Quote:
Originally Posted by www.moderntiredealer.com/article/312312/final-words-on-tire-aging
This is absolutely the last editorial I will write on tire aging. Not counting this one, I have written four since 2002. The message has always been similar: Common sense tells you that tires have a shelf life. However, if they are properly cared for, that life is almost indefinite.

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Old 14th January 2018, 18:41   #40
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I think the argument around tire shelf life requires a decision on how much you're willing to care for them. I unfortunately don't have the will or time to spray them down with protectant on a scheduled basis, and many times I have no choice but to leave the vehicle(s) in the damaging weather outside. Luckily, in my case, I use and abuse the tires so much that they'll go bald long, long, long before any other kind of significant degradation occurs.

Even so, since tire safety is a big priority to me, I still make sure that the tires, when purchased new, are actually new. Those that sell tires have a financial interest in saying that they last longer than the claims of third party reports.

Don't forget to live before you die.
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