Windows 10, The Most Audacious Release in the History of the Platform

[Victhor]

Lot of potential for Winamp in here (both hitting the market on 2015?).. I'm begining to feel good about it..

http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/w...story-platform

[DrO]

it's nice that it's bring the focus back to the desktop as people seem to like for the desktop / laptop experience. however just because Win10 might unify certain things, Winamp won't really benefit without possibly a lot of change.

since you could be looking for at least 2 different clients...
1) aimed at the "legacy" desktop as we've got and 2) a second which basically is like WAFA and drops everything that came before it and is implemented as a native "modern" app.

or you just drop the "legacy" desktop version completely and either port what can be over to the modern framework (which doesn't help for Win7 and earlier users) or you just start over from scratch in the WAFA manner.


for mobile you'd probably be looking at a whole new WAFA like setup i.e. start from scratch (if something were to be done for it), but as the desktop is made more a kin to what was known in Win7 and earlier, there's probably less of a reason to make a "modern" desktop app version of Winamp as that could be done but you pretty much do a Winamp3 on the desktop client of Winamp and we've said we're not going to do that.

[Victhor]

I'm trying to join the -theoretical- dots, IF Radionomy wants to bring Winamp to a lot of platforms, it's true that the current "legacy" desktop version wouldn't be of much help, but, thinking big, IF they really want to, looks like the new (Windows) release will make it easy for them to reach lots of platform with "little" effort. Of course, that "little effort" would imply a whole new version.. something I think they should be already considering by now.
Or do you think for now the thinking / projection is "small" and only contemplates WAFA?

[DrO]

if the Windows desktop is going to be more obvious on Win10, as seems to be the case, then the existing Winamp for Windows will do fine for true desktop / laptop / applicable tablet usage.

however if wanting to go the modern app route (which for full setups i don't know is right as all of the apps i've seen tend to somewhat dumb things down somewhat), you would still be looking at probably at least 2 versions with them being aimed at the desktop / laptop / applicable tablet usage and then a version aimed at the mobile platform.

yes it might be easier (depending on the implementation, etc) to cover more of the Windows platforms from a generally shared code base, but you still have nuances between things which would generally mean multiple (unless things have changed more than i remember with the Win8.x handling of different app stores and all of that fun).


basically the legacy desktop (which is a misnomer to call it legacy when it's actively used) vs modern apps situation is somewhat of a mess imho. sure it can help to make it easier to do most of a shared code base over all instances of a platform. however its always better imho to tune things for the platform being used (which is why WAFA on tablets was not a nice experience since it was tuned more towards phones than tablets, though with the emergence of phablets it shows its issues again).

and as for reaching more, it's hard to say since you've already got something that runs on Windows as-is, it's really the mobile side of things which is where the requests come from and not looking for a modern app version of Windows for the desktop.

but it's all a bit of a mess with mobile anything in general due to different platforms needing / doing different things and frameworks trying to achieve commonality from a single code base vs going native for a platform (which i think is the better option). so i really don't know what the aims, etc are going to be for any of it other than i'd probably expect anything other than the desktop client as-is to be re-written rather than re-using what went before but we shall see (as i really don't know as i'm not involved with such matters, desktop and SHOUTcast take up too much of my time already).

[Koogle]

They might aswel just show a tiolet on all those screens.. because that is all I see for winblows 10.. and flush

seriously its shit.. what happened to the developers improving the OS with useful fking features.. they all got replaced with marketing muppets? They sucked so fking much they needed to hold back releasing the metro abortion startmenu fix for 8.1 so that they actually had something to sell this new crap OS with?.. look we still using that shit square crap gui, we still done fuck all improvements to the explorer shell.. but hey we can now have this spyware infested phone home shite on all even more devices maybe push the cloudware crap even more.

please buy it like a good fucking idiot.. even though the OS is no better than win7 because that is the new win XP..

i guess they will need to pull another directx farse to force upgrades on gamers and 'enthusiasts'

[Victhor]

Well, there are those who think that Windows 10 doesn’t fix the desktop—it fixes Windows 8’s reputation..

[Koogle]

it just carries on win8 reputation for me then cus its not fixing anything that is ugly and useless about it.

maybe they hire some gui designers that didn't just finish kindergarten art class, all they do is stupid fking square shapes and simpleton color schemes... and that is meant to be professional? looks like it was made for 4years olds or 80year olds with sight difficulties.

[Aminifu]

The so-called 'modern' UI was designed with mobile devices in mind. The minimal basic colors, no rounded edges, no drop shadows, no window animations, etc. put minimal strain on the graphics subsystems in these devices and therefore result in minimal battery drain (allowing for longer run-time between recharging).

Blame the slow improvement of battery technology and the user's demand for convergence, not the UI designers.

[Satuim]

It's so far looking rather nice. However I won't be letting go of Windows 7 for a while

[garetjax]

Windows 10 (Using it here)...and a developer for Windows Systems; I can tell you that building applications for Windows 10 is very much like building them for Windows 7/XP (albeit some framework crap for xp).

VC++ is fully supported though, I really don't build applications with the C portion of development; I build in C#, F# and find that the development is much improved with release towards the unified experience.

I build unit tests, ui (one for legacy and one for modern) and the application logic the same as I have always done with the exception of the target and ui at compile time.

I build my apps like the following:
1. Core API
2. Modern UI
3. Legacy UI
4. Extensions

As both views (ui) work with the same core model of data and it's API; I haven't an issue with pushing towards either UI. Each the UI Views are only connecting up the various UI bits to the Core API; later this can mean publishing Web Services; WebAPI; REST; for SOAP Commercialization of the Core API by extending / changing the core API to fit a universal code runtime. Or some such nonsense.

[garetjax]

Originally Posted by Koogle

maybe they hire some gui designers that didn't just finish kindergarten art class, all they do is stupid fking square shapes and simpleton color schemes... and that is meant to be professional? looks like it was made for 4years olds or 80year olds with sight difficulties.

LOL...except they put millions on the line; to create a unified ecosystem and took a huge risk in going forward with what they believed; was a convergence of UI Design Principles; Their only mistake was to force it upon users; their best option would be to make a
Windows Core free for devices that used touch input and were small form factors, and for everything else continue with the same business logic they defined. And, well after all that they actually do now offer Windows (Core) for less than 10 inch devices for free.

Additionally, they are taking consumer, business and end users input on Windows 10 and building out updates continually.

I've already seen no more than 5 updates to my Windows 10; as for usage I love it and enjoy it for the most part. Though, search could be a bit faster (embedded system search; that is).

[MrSinatra]

legacy users really don't matter, or to put it another way, their market is shrinking rapidly... for instance, whats the point of supporting windows XP at the expense of progress? its not like the windows XP marketplace is growing. its shrinking, its obsolete.

I have long advocated that it does winamp no good to on the one hand say "no one uses skins / plugins etc" anymore, while on the other hand say "we have to keep legacy crap supported" these views are totally contradictory yet simultaneously put forth.

I would like to see a complete break, and let me explain that a bit. the winamp 6 DrO has been working so hard on, should be released and have as much legacy support as he deems fit. that makes sense.

but going forward, I would like to see a new winamp 7, that ELIMINATES all the legacy problems of the current winamp. I would like to see it be "native" to windows [10], and as many other platforms as possible. I would like to see an actual "winamp store" that generates revenue and encourages 3rd party devs to dev. I'd like to see a plugin validator. 64 bit. multi processor processing. upnp. open source as much as possible. and yes, try to get as much of the current features / prefs and so on into the new ver as makes sense to do.

now, I know I'm in the land of Oz, but its not like all of this has to be done at once. establish the right goals for winamp 7, and then just prioritize them. resources and dev times are limited, so use open source to get help.

winamp needs to start looking forward if it wants to survive. I think windows 10 is finally, finally doing the same thing.

[Victhor]

Windows 10 on small tablets looks like a miniature PC

Well, things got more interesting today...
Just now I almost believed I could see my Winamp skins on a tablet. Dude.. still a "no", but looks closer to me..

[MrSinatra]

I read yesterday that win 10 will be free to everyone running win 7 or later. if true, all the more reason to kill legacy support going forward.

[Raj_09]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

I read yesterday that win 10 will be free to everyone running win 7 or later. if true, all the more reason to kill legacy support going forward.

I am very excited about the hololens product coming up actually. Many say that it would just be another failed Google glass. However, Microsoft is a products and services company compared to Google, which is just an advertising company. The holo lens could be the harbinger for better user interfaces in the future.

[DrO]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

all the more reason to kill legacy support going forward.

that's easily done if you drop all plug-in and skin support and just provide a Windows modern ui app and having it only provide format support based on what the OS provides (so you can say bye-bye to ALAC with that model). as that helps to remove _all_ legacy considerations just as you're wanting.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by DrO

that's easily done if you drop all plug-in and skin support and just provide a Windows modern ui app and having it only provide format support based on what the OS provides (so you can say bye-bye to ALAC with that model). as that helps to remove _all_ legacy considerations just as you're wanting.

your response ignores the context of my earlier post (# 12) and responds to a POV I did not put out.

also, it is not "legacy support" to have an app provide abilities beyond what's in an OS, like ALAC.

[garetjax]

I believe the notion he is setting forth is that while you may want to remove legacy app support it really isn't doable for an os. The problem is business usage; they rely IPO many legacy environments and apps that infrastructure wise are to cost prohibitive initially to bring into a new is that does not support them. An os is just a user gateway to tools, software, and data systems systems. You cannot simply break legacy; this was the failure of the Metro version of windows.

[MrSinatra]

Originally Posted by garetjax

I believe the notion he is setting forth is that while you may want to remove legacy app support it really isn't doable for an os. The problem is business usage; they rely IPO many legacy environments and apps that infrastructure wise are to cost prohibitive initially to bring into a new is that does not support them. An os is just a user gateway to tools, software, and data systems systems. You cannot simply break legacy; this was the failure of the Metro version of windows.

I believe you have entirely misunderstood what both of us were saying. for the record, I was talking about certain legacy aspects of support winamp itself provides, that I think should be dropped if they impede winamp's progress. he can speak for himself though, and he often does when it comes to things I have to say.

[garetjax]

Maybe...or I simply used this a gateway to expand on his thoughts..I do not presume to fully interpret his commentary. As it relates to Winamp I have full faith that when the latest version is releases that there Wil be alot of continuity and many updates that remove crap that never should have been while retaining most of the loved and useful features.

[Aminifu]

As long as Winamp 6.0 lets me continue to do what I'm already doing, I will be happy.

It would also be nice for it to have less glitches and inconsistencies and less of a need for workarounds and 3rd party plug-ins for artwork and for some of the common general purpose file management, search, and sorting abilities people keep asking for.

Windows 10 will force me to upgrade hardware in order to take full advantage of it, but I've been wanting to make some major upgrades anyway. Most of my stuff is early to mid Windows 7 era.

[DrO]

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

your response ignores the context of my earlier post (# 12) and responds to a POV I did not put out.

i have no interest in looking at things previously said as it doesn't matter imho. the point you make about what you're wanting to see (as I quoted) means not getting what you've currently got as the biggest legacy issue is plug-ins and skins.

hence why what you're asking for can only be satisfied by dropping those aspects and going for a native app would pretty much do just that. as all existing plug-ins would never work (that's just not how the Windows app model works afaik) and skins would pretty much have to be dropped as-is - it might be able to fake classic support, but modern skin support would be either heavily crippled or just not worth the effort.

Originally Posted by MrSinatra

also, it is not "legacy support" to have an app provide abilities beyond what's in an OS, like ALAC.

it does when those plug-ins would not be loaded in a modern app and going for a free app solution would mean it's just the easiest option of relying on the OS to provide things without having to cram in all sorts of codecs that most don't care for and don't need i.e. it would be bloating the app for the sake of a few vs the many.

as such thinking modern apps are great and gets you one thing on everywhere has serious compromises if you're comparing against what you want / expect for the Windows desktop version. if anything, you'd end up with something more like WAFA if Winamp for Windows is done as a modern app than just iterating on things as a 'legacy' app.

so it is best to think through things a bit more before you go about asking for such things as you (and others) will pretty much not like what you'll get when it comes to having a native modern app vs maintaining the existing Windows version in some form. plus just having the Winamp name on something doesn't mean much if it doesn't fit with people's expectations as WAFA showed and would be even more of the case with creating it as a modern app.

-----------------------------------------------------

and from what i gather from the information provided so far about Windows 10 (is hard to know without something to actual run on), it will try to be more consistent between 'legacy' and modern apps in the way things are done - that means Winamp as-is can probably achieve / work with some of those aspects but not all (like the auto-maximising aspect especially for classic skins).

so for some aspects (even for things going to Windows 7) it still requires some fundamental changes to how Winamp works and that is a decision that would need to be made as to whether to do so or not as they have the potential to break some long held assumptions by plug-ins / 3rd party tools vs doing it 'right' so as to natively work with things like aero-snap, etc without trying to detect / emulate that functionality.

[Koogle]

M$ couldn't make Winshite10 look more like garbge if they tried...


...did M$ sack all the GUI artists? wtf is this retarded oversized handicap shit .....




I think that would make a fitting poster for teh winshite10 interface.






what about WMP any improvements to that, nah.

show hidden files/ protected files.. desktop.ini still on the desktop lol, there effort to improve things is beyond pathetic. There entire focus is about getting everyone using there metro shite, i wonder why.

You could at least say the jump from vista to win7 showed some fking effort by them to improve parts of the OS interface and Explorer.. ie improvements to taskbar buttons, new useful api for applications to use for progress bars on the taskbar..

For MS with the money and developers they really are scraping the barrel, its not like there isn't a shit load of things they could still do to improve the OS, whether its more useful features and options or just better customizability.

Instead they rather unify and force all plebs using scrap tablet devices with one shitty OS design for them all. Bad move, the startmenu button that was for win8, is still just a fking button to shitting metro..thats a big fuk you. Because it just shows they still want shove there metro tablet crap cloud app shite in peoples faces. I mean, how fking dumb are MS? most corporations have IT department fascists practically looking for ways to dumb and lock down every possible fking part of the OS from workforce sheep.. and here MS comes along with Metro

Explorer ribbon interface useful? bloated crap to me, qttabbar takes giant shit on it while not adding bloat to the toolbar height. maybe other shell extensions aswel that MS could take a few tips from and just integrate with better options. they wont.

So basically fuck all improvements to the file explorer, i still remember the folder size extension on xp, that MS fkced over, how many years has it been, what have they done to improve at the OS level a for to show folder sizes in the file explorer either on a user selected basis or just on all the times. plenty of ways they could solve the issue, they've done fuck all there.

better notifcations? like wtf ..what notifications since when has ms provided useful notifications for anything, better firewall?> like an actual fucking firewall that isn't dogshit useless... and actually provides notifications for allow/deny / temporary allow etc per process id allow, per port allow.. all at a notification.. no i didnt fking think so.. these should be advanced features incorprated in an OS at some level, but MS bare bones shit all the way really. You need better third party tools for it, MS actually really like the idea of peoples PC's and day to day actions being a open book for them and there 'partners'. Cortana ...great, multi desktop.. ok thats 2015 gj MS jump over the moon for some basic fking multidesktop support.

better memory usage? better performance, negligible at best really, even startup times is like whatever these aren't huge improvements anymore.

fking marketing, better security and privacy, nah they take a shit on that. metro alone is like giant gaping hole for spyware and privacy, there is no finer grain firewall control on that if you allow metro you allow of its if shit.

the fact win10 is free upgrade is meaningless, if you aren't there customer then who is, they certainly want everyone on the new OS but they've done fuck all to really interest me on in it.

I keep hearing people say they are working on it.. hardly.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/gadgets

Gadgets are no longer available on our website because the Windows Sidebar platform in Windows 7 and Windows Vista has serious vulnerabilities. Microsoft has retired the feature in newer releases of Windows. Gadgets could be exploited to harm your computer, access your computer's files, show you objectionable content, or change their behavior at any time. An attacker could even use a gadget to take complete control of your PC. If you're concerned about the safety of gadgets you’ve downloaded, find out more about gadgets and steps you can take to protect your PC.

They say all that shit to promote win8 metro crap, yet Metro is no better, its worse... and most of crap on it, is nothing more than shitty wrappers around plain websites.

Google backdoor'd the fuck out of MS with Android and now most developers making junk apps will do it for android because that is where the market is, while MS will try to provide a market for winshit10 by offering free snake oil upgrades, MS are there own worst enemy, they just keep fking it up with greed and blocked ears to what people actually want. ... and every time they do, they lose another developer who is just not interested in there stupid games anymore. Maybe this same old DX12 api stunt that cannot possibly be allowed on previous OS version, be the last one they get pull to fking pull to force user upgrades.

[garetjax]

Whatever your showing in those images is not win10. The first is closer...for control panel apps..metro???? The only metro interfaces that are on 9927 are connections, and the slide in start apps...as far as I am aware metro views will only be enabled for tablets but can be disabled for desktop instead...i am using it daily...and have updates set to fast so, I get frequent releases....and so far a 1gb memory footprint, smaller had footprint and lighter overall usage....


But, I'm sure you'll poo poo anything as well informed as you are. Oh I see your using the settings snap-in not necessarily the control panel and your associating the settings to the control panel...

They are not the same thing...FYI; you can access general settings by going to settings or you can you use the control panel if your more comfortable using that; In future builds the settings app will only be available on Touch enabled devices...(FYI).


Currently with preview builds both the tablet interface and the desktop interface are available to use regardless of if your using a touch based device or traditional device. In my research and information on MSDN regarding the future vision for the OS is to have a single OS build for all platforms that microsoft will use (touch, non-touch, mobile).

Here are the current Windows 10 Requirements:
32BIT - 1 GB RAM
64BIT - 2 GB RAM

32BIT - HDD 16 GB
64BIT - HDD 20 GB

GFX - DX9 Compat. Device w/ 256 MB


Usage of system - Actual Results
HP Pavilion DV7 - 32 GB RAM (Very Fast os).
Dell Inspiron 1998 Laptop - Mobile GFX (Still Fast)
Surface Pro 3 - 128GB - Extremely Fast OS
Nokia 920 (2013) - Unified and touch metro ... very fast.

3d Mark Results - 9289 (Test for Shadows of Mordor) DV7 vs (9131 on Windows 7)

And to keep it relevant everything, on winamp works...without a hitch (excepting that something do not exist anymore...)

[JasonFriday13]

Koogle, instead of complaining about Win 10, go and use ubuntu. If I didn't do gaming or programming, I would use ubuntu exclusively (I'm currently dual-booting with Win 7, have been for years). Also my laptop qualifies for the free update, which I'm all for since Win 8.1 isn't that great on it.

I could probably slag Microsoft for it's attempts on Win 10 as well, but I've been using the Tech Preview since October and I like it alot.

[Koogle]

I do use ubuntu, for remote deskstop.. honestly linux desktop is worse than winxp... its just bad and shows no signs of improving.... i use win7 mainly.

Back win10, doesn't matter ...the skin for win10 is still metro inspired shit, flat colors, square corners, shit tiles everywhere its like the win3.1 for 2015 gj... and mean what have they done in win10 that actually improves the Explorer or any other core feature improvements.. its just shity tablet stuff and crapps. And at least Aero ui was decent and somewhat consistent throughout the OS it also didnt look like poo. Its just inconsistent junk with oversize text floating around within the ui.. seriously did they sack all gui artists?