Old 29th September 2006, 19:12   #1
Koogle
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Why can't the ML be the playlist

Is there still no way of just using the Media Library like a playlist? What I mean is I want to just go through my ML and when I play a song I want it to play instantly, and then when its finished advance to the next song in the ML from where I clicked the last one(like the plalist). Instead what I get is ridiculous slow waiting time for winamp to transfer my entire Library of songs over the playlist window(got a lot of songs and it just gets slower each week) Which I hate using, but have no choice its a pile of crap wish it would just get removed.

Anyway I'm sure winamp used to work like this once? Maybe if winamp was just a bit clever and checked to see that it had already loaded the ML into the Playlist, then I could just seamlessly use the ML to play songs and get rid of the playlist window altogether.

sorry for the negative attitude there must be a better/faster way of doing this though.
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Old 30th September 2006, 06:01   #2
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Winamp3 did this... then some dumbass was like "hey, features aren't cool", so they switched backed to the Winamp v2 interface with Winamp3's skinning engine tacked onto the side.

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Old 30th September 2006, 14:13   #3
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And yet, some love the v2 interface and don't ever use the ML...it's hard to make a player that everybody loves
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Old 17th October 2006, 20:17   #4
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So nobody else missed this 'old feature'

My signature was just too damn good to be seen here..
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Old 17th October 2006, 21:13   #5
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Winamp3 was a new media player developed from the ground up. It was forced into a early release and was not met by great admiration. Eventually that lead to WA3's demise.

The demand for Winamp3 may have died, but the demand for free form skins did not. To answer the demand, a plug-in was added to Winamp 2 that supported WA3 style (free from, modern) skins. Winamp 2 was renamed Winamp 5 (Winamp 2 + Winamp3 skin support = Winamp 5).

Winamp3's playback engine allowed to play files through the ML. Unfortunately Winamp 2/5 does not have this playback ability in the Winamp core.

As sort of a workaround, the QuickTracks plug-in (discussion thread) may provide some happiness.

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Old 18th October 2006, 17:11   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Koogle
So nobody else missed this 'old feature'
you bet your ass more people miss this old feature!
I've been bitching about it for a long time..
I was bitching really loudly when Winamp3 got the chop.
But things never improved and Winamp3/Wasabi.player never got finished... soo sad...
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Old 19th October 2006, 21:09   #7
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WA3's flexibility in handling (multiple) playlists has never been reached by any other player. I miss that feature every day but well...
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Old 24th October 2006, 13:39   #8
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shame it doesn't make any sense why the Winamp team would destroy a perfect way to play files.. stupid

and that QuickTracks plug-in is awfull unfortunatly, nothing quick about it.

My signature was just too damn good to be seen here..
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Old 24th October 2006, 13:47   #9
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because everyone else moaned about Winamp3 that's why it was dropped and they went back to the Winamp 2.x core (which was more popular). sucks yes but it's just a sign of user power at work on a large scale. from my view point, i don't want the ml to act like the playlist editor since i think ones for playback and ones for managing media but according to some people i'm still stuck in the stoneage with my computer usage views

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Old 24th October 2006, 19:04   #10
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I think it wasn't so much that people didn't like winamp3, it was that for a lot of people it wouldn't load without crashing. I was never able to use it on my old 98 machine, so I had to go back to 2 if I wanted to stick with Winamp.

Just saying, I didn't dislike Winamp3 but I couldn't use it. Who knows how many people (if any) had the same situation as me.

By the way, docking the playlist in the ml (like album list or dynamic library) with a right-click option to show item in current playlist would be similar-- kinda sorta.
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Old 24th October 2006, 23:11   #11
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one of the most moronic things about the whole playlist editor mess in Winamp 2/5, is that they stuck to the oooooooold style playlist editor with a special skin just for it, that cannot be extended in any way without uglyness.
This makes modern skins playlist editors almost always look pretty awful and way outdated (compared to what one would expect a playlist editor to look and behave like in modern players), aswell as beeing totally impossible to change and improve with new ideas and features.

I think a secondary playlist editor should've been done, as an option for users (to keep legacy skin compatibility for the whiners), that made use of the generic window bitmaps in classic skins and use normal window elements in modern skins (like the scrollbar, which is an embarrasment).
This way, it would also be possible to add all that niiice functionality that Winamp3 had..

But.. I guess there was absolutely no interest in this.
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Old 24th October 2006, 23:29   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrO
[B]from my view point, i don't want the ml to act like the playlist editor since i think ones for playback and ones for managing media but according to some people i'm still stuck in the stoneage with my computer usage views
I'm with you DrO. Everytime I have to run iTunes for some asinine reason or another and songs just start playing unexpectedly, I feel like I'd rather be getting a root canal!
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Old 25th October 2006, 00:05   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Plague
I think a secondary playlist editor should've been done, as an option for users (to keep legacy skin compatibility for the whiners), that made use of the generic window bitmaps in classic skins and use normal window elements in modern skins (like the scrollbar, which is an embarrasment).
This way, it would also be possible to add all that niiice functionality that Winamp3 had..
aye, shame that in the end the ability to hack that it nicely without messing up existing plugin compatability for the pledit wasn't viable without core changes. either way changes have to be made to the core so will just have to wait and see what happens now...

-daz
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Old 25th October 2006, 00:11   #14
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either way changes have to be made to the core so will just have to wait and see what happens now...
my vote goes to abandoning the core (again) and open up the wasabi project (again)
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Old 25th October 2006, 00:17   #15
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so i'd best not say that all of the w5s in the system folder and the related stuff for them is all wasabi service driven

-daz
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Old 25th October 2006, 00:48   #16
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cool.. that's certainly a good start, now let's go all the way..
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Old 25th October 2006, 00:56   #17
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what is wasabi?

(i don't want to get lost in your conversation)

the computer is never at fault for an error; a human is, though.
DO NOT PM me for tech support.
No matter what you're doing, use the right tool for the job!
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Old 25th October 2006, 00:59   #18
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wasabi is what winamp3 is built on.. it's a framework built specifically for winamp3.
you could pretty much say that winamp3 was a collection of wasabi built components (a playlist editor, a core, etc).
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Old 25th October 2006, 14:58   #19
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Quote:
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my vote goes to abandoning the core (again) and open up the wasabi project (again)
me too

but now is too late to change.. the devs makes some cool stuffs in WA5 that wa3 doesn't have

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Old 25th October 2006, 15:02   #20
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O ye of little faith ;-)
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Old 25th October 2006, 15:03   #21
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and again

core modifies can be made without switch on wasabi

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Old 25th October 2006, 15:05   #22
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O ye of little faith ;-)

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Old 25th October 2006, 16:21   #23
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i miss winamp 3 as much as plague.
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Old 25th October 2006, 18:25   #24
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You miss it so much, you forgot how to spell Winamp3 (no space).

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Old 25th October 2006, 18:56   #25
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yeah I just got lost in the conversation.. was kinda wondering if you guys even read the 1st post

so I'm wondering where I can download winamp3 I feel like trying it again, just to remember the old times, don't thin I ever had any problems with winamp 3 I actually recently tried wmp 11 beta 2.. man Microsoft got so close in wmp10/9 and then they buggered it up, just using there library to store and play songs is awful. Why can't any of these media players get it right

My signature was just too damn good to be seen here..
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Old 25th October 2006, 19:01   #26
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this is the last build of wasabi.player (new name of winamp3). and the fastest and most complete of them all.

http://badmofo.org/wasabi/wasabi.player499g.exe
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Old 30th October 2006, 01:09   #27
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I for one too would like the ML to act like the playlist. I would like this feature too for when you making playlists you can play the song without it having any effect on the playlist you trying to make. I know some people who go to windows media player just for this feature. At least if they do put it in it could just be a setting in the preferences you can change back and forth to.

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Old 30th October 2006, 01:25   #28
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Hmm, I guess I'm the only, who like the way, how it works in Winamp now.

ML is just for organizing files. I like the design of Winamp, when I just want to listen to music, I have main window and playlist. I don't want to see the whole library during playback.

If I would like it, I would probably change to the overbloated iTunes or WMP. I hate the all-in-one design of these players.
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Old 30th October 2006, 02:49   #29
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I'm with you koopatrooper
And being able to access ML playlists and smartviews from within the playlist are pretty useful to not have to constantly use the ML in everyday playing.

The only thing that I think is lacking with integration between the two is being able to search the whole library (with jump to file) from the playlist/main window (and without opening a playlist that has the whole library in it)

-Hayden
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Old 30th October 2006, 06:01   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hayden_54
I'm with you koopatrooper
And being able to access ML playlists and smartviews from within the playlist are pretty useful to not have to constantly use the ML in everyday playing.

The only thing that I think is lacking with integration between the two is being able to search the whole library (with jump to file) from the playlist/main window (and without opening a playlist that has the whole library in it)

-Hayden
I am also with you guys
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Old 30th October 2006, 22:29   #31
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well the way I look at it.. Either the ML gets improved and starts allowing you to use as it should in my opinion work.. I can't stand having to have both the ML and PL open just go through music, search and play...

If not that then at least get a bar at the top of playlist window that allows you to search through songs.. The jump to file dialog is a pile of shit, it should be intergrated like the search is in Playlist.

And if none of those things, at least make the ML smarter, so that if you use it to play songs from there, it doesn't keep adding all the same 10000s of songs into the playlist when all you did was play a song that is already in the playlist.. if you know what i mean. oh and add a highlight on the song that is playing in the ML like it is in the PL...

My signature was just too damn good to be seen here..
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Old 30th October 2006, 22:41   #32
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in other words, just drop the winamp 2.x core already and go wasabi (which does all those things you want) all the way, like you (nullsoft) should've done in the first place!
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Old 30th October 2006, 22:48   #33
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i think we're at the point where we're going to have to agree to disagree. if the issues the current ml are such an issue then there's nothing stopping people (re)coding one that suits what people need (mainly aimed at Koogle's post) since either way such a change would involve a fair amount of work irrespective of altering the existing ml_local or making one that fits with what's needed.

and seeing as the main part of the media library once you exclude the gen_ml loader dll is ml_local, then that's what would need to have the changes made to or an alternative made to replace it.

the main issue here is trying to find a common ground with the minimal resources that are present to do any development work and what's wanted by people. as such we can moan about x and y but unless someone does any coding (be it nullsoft or a 3rd party) it's not going to get things anywhere. and it's not like a proportion of the issues can't already be done as a 3rd party with the current setup, it's finding people interested enough to do so

-daz
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Old 30th October 2006, 22:58   #34
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I actually like how the Media Library works in Winamp 2/5, it's just the Playlist Editor that needs some serious rework and better ML integration.

Basically, I want the ML features of Winamp 2.x into the ML/PL structure of Wasabi.

But I know it probably won't happen, and the Winamp 2.x core most likely won't ever be completely replaced, by wasabi or anything else.

If I had the magic coding skills required, I would pick up the released pieces of Wasabi myself and code a new player, but I don't know how.. And I hate that..

So I bitch and moan instead...
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Old 30th October 2006, 22:59   #35
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Quote:
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in other words, just drop the winamp 2.x core already and go wasabi (which does all those things you want) all the way, like you (nullsoft) should've done in the first place!
Yeah, and of those who contributed to making that decision (Justin, Francis, Christophe, Steve, Tom, Brennan, Aus, Biderman, etc etc), which of them are actually still on the Nullsoft roster? Other than Tag, who is still around from those days? Now if Benski had been on the team back then, things might well have been different. But he wasn't, heh.

That all said and done, surely you must've noticed that there's more and more wasabi making its way into Winamp these days...?
Quote:
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The jump to file dialog is a pile of shit
Nice! (not).
You'll be making lots of friends round these parts with comments like that :/
For the thousands of users who don't use the ML, the JTF dialog is a godsend.
Not to mention the heap of extra global features JTFE adds...

By the way, if you don't like seeing all the individual component windows, have you tried using a SingleUI skin instead?

You could also try Crack1ty's Quick Tracks plugin, which let's you access the ml local media database from anywhere in Winamp (Edit: Ahh, JM already mentioned QuickTracks plugin above).
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Old 30th October 2006, 23:46   #36
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yes I did have a look at the quicktracks.. without being too nasty about it.. it just wouldn't work with me, I like to quickly search keywords, being song titles,artists, genres... Quicktracks just wouldn't make anything quicker at all for me.

and i won't be be nice about the jump to file dialog.. it is rubbish, sure I guess its better than nothing, but lets be honest here things like that could be better intergrated into the UI in better ways.

hell I even tried the WMP 11 beta 2, but i guess Microsoft can't even improve things, its like 1 step forward, 2 steps backward with it.. I guess no one can get it right, but i'll keep this pursuit on until I find something better elsewhere to handle my growing song collection or things get better here.

My signature was just too damn good to be seen here..
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Old 31st October 2006, 00:08   #37
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Quote:
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Yeah, and of those who contributed to making that decision (Justin, Francis, Christophe, Steve, Tom, Brennan, Aus, Biderman, etc etc), which of them are actually still on the Nullsoft roster? Other than Tag, who is still around from those days? Now if Benski had been on the team back then, things might well have been different. But he wasn't, heh.

That all said and done, surely you must've noticed that there's more and more wasabi making its way into Winamp these days...?
yea I know almost everyone have left nullsoft, I was around here when they did, remember..?

and yes, I've noticed more and more wasabi making it's way into winamp aswell..

Thing is, it's a little bit like too little too late..
Even Wasabi's capabilities, and certainly skinning, is looking a bit outdated theese days, so slowly morphing winamp into a wasabi media player is simply making sure that winamp will continue to feel just a little bit outdated for a long time to come.

Wasabi in itself is still a very good base to build on, but some things need changing if it's to be up to date and modern enough.

For example, no desktop alpha on components is really bad.
Also, it should be possible to build true vector skins that scale perfectly (even with the vector capabilities in WasabiXml, the skin will not scale good)..

Plus, Wasabi was never finished, some stuff are still unskinned Win32 specific stuff, and so on..

I know this won't happen though.

But I stand by my opinions and I really really wish that open source Wasabi had picked up more steam than it did, so that we could've had the player we should've had in the first place..

That said, I'm just glad Winamp is beeing developed at all anymore.
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Old 31st October 2006, 00:42   #38
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Quote:
By the way, if you don't like seeing all the individual component windows, have you tried using a SingleUI skin instead?
Yeah that is pretty good and the colour editor still works with it. Hopefully future development on that will continue.
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Old 31st October 2006, 01:21   #39
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All 5 of those SingleUI-style skins are pretty neat.

And I still disagree with you about JTF, but sure, everyone's entitled to their opinions...

QuickTracks is pretty neat too, if configured correctly, heh.
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Old 31st October 2006, 01:21   #40
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I just tried out the quicktracks plugin and I'm loving it. Especially being able to make menus of my music sorted by genre (it's not practical to have 40 genre views in the ML itself!).

Not sure if others have found this but initially when I installed this it took forever to load up and winamp became unresponsive. But unchecking "load all menus on first load" makes a massive difference to the speed.

Also it had the option to customize where the menu is in winamp. In the readme it said to have a look at the SDK for what numbers to put in. I'm a little confused about it all though. Does anybody know if it's possible to make the menu show up by right-clicking in the playlist? And if so, how would I do it.

I agree with koogle though, that a search function probably more effective than having the menus. But still quick tracks is pretty good in it's own right. Is there any plugin out there that has this sort of functionality?

On a side note, I don't see what is wrong about the JTF dialog. For a plugin not part of the main winamp core, I think it is pretty well integrated.
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