Old 21st February 2012, 00:09   #1
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$ 5.00 for a gallon of regular gas by summer

This should send the economy into a tail spin faster than ice can melt in hell.

Mad Max and the gasoline wars may not be too far fetched now ....

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Old 21st February 2012, 03:17   #2
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Ya know ....

Gas right now is about $1.30 (regular), give or take, per liter in Canada. About 3.8 liters per gallon means a gallon of gas in Canada runs about $4.94. Though I don't know prices, I believe the cost of petrol in the UK to be similar. However, when one considers the relative strength of the gbp to the usd, it turns out to be much worse.

For what ever reason, gas in this country has always been insanely cheap compared to the rest of world cost. You can speculate as much as you want as to the reasons why, but how long did we honestly think that would last?
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Old 21st February 2012, 03:42   #3
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Getting by with gas prices here in Canada really isn't that hard. It has led to more people buying more economic cars (both on your wallet and the environment) as well as car pooling and public transit. I've been using public transit a lot lately and I'm surprised to see even the bus that I take is packed with people. A few years ago this was not the case, I was usually the last and only person on my bus.

Of course not everyone is doing so I still own a numerous amount of gas guzzling vehicles and use them all and I probably wont stop. But it seems that things are looking up.... All from raises in gas prices. Yes it's annoying, and yes it pisses us off. But things are getting better.

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Old 21st February 2012, 03:53   #4
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That is one thong the US does not have though Mike.

There is no VIA Rail here and we don't have nearly as good of a busing system. Plus, there is a massive stigma in the US that mass transportation if for the "poor folk", which has lessened the need to beef up our mass transportation systems.

Dunno if it exists out where you are; but MegaBus fairs for $1 simply can not be beat throughout Ontario.

Edit:

Well ... I'll be .... MegaBus is in the US ... Though I have never seen one outside of Canada ...
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Old 21st February 2012, 06:59   #5
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Canada may only have one road, but they keep it really nice. It's $81 here for a bus pass, so poor folk walk. Fares are going up again too. Trimet (our bus and light rail commie conspiracy) is up to it's ass in trouble over legacy retirement benefits. So far, they haven't been able to screw their retirees over.

You thought you should have been a cop or a teacher..... but you should have been a bus driver... They apparently have a better union.
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Old 21st February 2012, 07:18   #6
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What's the point of comparing the price of commodities from any other country to ours? The economy of the U.S. is (supposed to be) vastly different than any other nation on the face of the planet. And just because the value of a commodity is more expensive someplace else doesn't intrinsically justify the price hikes here. Admittedly the U.S. uses much more gasoline than any other nation, so why then is it people forget the fundamentals of supply/demand economics. The price of gas is supposed to be cheaper because it is so abundant (or was) and is used more heavily. Comparing economies of (or any part thereof) the U.S. to Canada is no less akin to comparing apples to oranges (no offense intended to our neighbors to the North.) The value of different commodities in different countries is going to be different, especially when you consider what those economies are driven by. Hell, the state of California alone uses more gasoline and diesel fuel than than the entire country of China! http://www.planetizen.com/node/34065

When you have that much fuel floating around in a country it's going to be cheaper (erm, it has to be cheaper or it won't work) than in any other country. Again, basic market economy fundamentals.

If the same amount (or more) energy could be obtained from corn as cheaply, efficiently, and conveniently as oil could then corn would have already replaced gasoline a long time ago and would be just as cheap (if not cheaper than) gas. But it isn't so it doesn't.

When Canada, the U.K., or any other country for that matter, starts using as much oil as the U.S. does then maybe you might be able to justifiably compare the prices. But even then only tenuously.
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Old 21st February 2012, 08:56   #7
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In Canada's case, the difference is mostly tax. But, like I said, they keep better roads than we do for the most part.
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Old 21st February 2012, 12:48   #8
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Old 21st February 2012, 13:15   #9
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Bus passes/fares here on Vancouver Island for BC Transit have jumped from $1.00 to $1.75, and around $60 for an adult monthly pass and $150 for a student pass (which I believe lasts all year) but being in the area I am in most bus drivers are really lax. I've been allowed to ride the bus till we get to the local gas station, break a bill, and bring him back the change. Than ride bus back to my actual stop which takes an extra 6 minutes out of my day.

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Old 21st February 2012, 19:19   #10
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thinktink - I was thinking more along the lines of a global economy rather than micro per country economy.
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Old 22nd February 2012, 14:00   #11
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$4.10 for premium this morning, but it's probably not the cheapest place I could have got gas.

It is creeping up though. The news says it's because of the Iranians threatening. It looks like the way gasoline futures are trading that we could expect gas to get well above $5 by end of summer.

So much for any economic recovery. That'll steal any steam we got up plus some.

Since EU has banned oil imports from Iran, I would expect that to be a problem for EU too. Perhaps worse than the US.
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Old 22nd February 2012, 14:08   #12
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Since EU has banned oil imports from Iran, I would expect that to be a problem for EU too. Perhaps worse than the US.
correct as we've (UK) already hit gone a bit over the peak average diesel price from last summer, though doesn't help that we're taxed up to the eyeballs on fuel here *shrugs*

so i think we're around £6.55 a litre of diesel (petrol is generally 10p cheaper per litre so ~£6.10 for a gallon of petrol) which puts us at around $10-$11/gallon. but as pointed out earlier on, it's tricky to compare things between countries when you've got all of the variations in taxes and supplier costs, etc dumped on top of things.

but it's always been the case that the price goes up, that's just what happens and will keep on happening. especially when it's so much easier to increase a price rather than decrease it - how often do the prices actually go down when the price of oil drops? yet as soon as the oil price goes up so does fuel it seems...

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Old 22nd February 2012, 14:14   #13
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Unlike you, we're 20 years behind on our road repairs. You may have high taxes now, but sooner or later, we're gonna have to pony up. We're already paying for it in wheel alignment, accidents and bent suspension parts.
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Old 22nd February 2012, 14:20   #14
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i wouldn't count a couple of guys going round and dumping some asphalt into a hole and packing it down to only have to come back again a few months later to do the same shoddy thing as decent road repairs. also wheel alignment and suspension failures are a noticeable issue over here as well.

then again i doubt most of the tax from car tax even goes towards our road system, is more likely used to plug the whole in whatever gap there is elsewhere in the system or paying people to sit on their bums doing bugger all or even better been given away to other countries to plug their budget wholes only to then be written off. how can individuals be expected to be sensible about credit when governments clearly cannot do it properly *grumble*

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Old 22nd February 2012, 14:25   #15
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Look at it this way.... We could be Greek
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Old 22nd February 2012, 19:50   #16
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Iran stops it's oil export to most european countries.
So the price here for a liter ( we don't have gallons here) is going to be skyhigh here.

at the moment it's 1.72 euro's a liter.

1 U.S. dollar = 0.755229968
1 gallon = 3,78541178 liter

so you can do the math .....

( goes out to see if the moped is still in one piece , it gives more miles on a liter)

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Old 22nd February 2012, 19:58   #17
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Until you've bought fuel in the UK, you have NO right to complain that it's over priced, fuel bills of $120 a week aren't uncommon here for a regular driver

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Old 23rd February 2012, 03:19   #18
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Save me from living in a country I can't bitch about......
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Old 23rd February 2012, 21:05   #19
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It's funny, but I hardly ever think about how fuel is expensive is in Australia anymore. I'm so used to having to pay almost $60 a week to fill up (with a quarter of petrol left in the tank) for the past couple of years. That's with my normal commute, my car is a guzzler compared to jaz's Micra.
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Old 23rd February 2012, 23:53   #20
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It's that extra $60, when you just wanted to go some place that gets me. I kinda don't just burn a tank of gas for the hell of it any more. I also fly more.
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Old 27th February 2012, 21:03   #21
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If we want to go anywhere, we usually use the Micra. It gets awesome mileage. My car is a wagon, so other than me driving it to work and to Shy Jr's school, we only use it for transporting things around.
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Old 1st March 2012, 14:24   #22
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We don't get cars like the Micra. Usually they won't pass our safety and/or emission standards.

Econoboxes like the micra here don't usually do much better than 40 mpg. Engines are rarely less than 2L. 2.4 is a lot more likely.

I remember in the 70's during the oil crisis when people bought 50hp cars. In America, they are just miserable to drive. And you usually have to trash the shit out of the car not to be the thing 400 people have to pass in the right lane. That's if you just don't get ran over. Our pick of cars for the last 50 years has been bigger and higher power. That means you better be able to merge on the freeway or get ran into the ditch.

I wouldn't mind driving an econobox if everyone else was. It's just too unnerving to get waked on the freeway all the time. I look around at what people are driving around the world. It seems like you might have made more reasonable choices. 1000 less cc's. At least half again better gas mileage. You also save a couple hundred pounds of safety and emissions crap American cars "need".
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Old 1st March 2012, 17:39   #23
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Get your Trabant 601 today!
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Old 2nd March 2012, 22:24   #24
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Get your Trabant 601 today!

uhhhh , no thanks it's not at all fuel effective.

Go with Gas or diesel engines , much cheaper.

Or buy a moped / scooter

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Old 5th March 2012, 08:41   #25
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I wouldn't mind driving an econobox if everyone else was. It's just too unnerving to get waked on the freeway all the time. I look around at what people are driving around the world. It seems like you might have made more reasonable choices. 1000 less cc's. At least half again better gas mileage. You also save a couple hundred pounds of safety and emissions crap American cars "need".
Small hatchbacks are pretty popular here in Australia, mainly because anything bigger is just so bloody expensive. We pay out the ass for goods here.

And the Micra isn't the smallest car I've seen on our local highway.
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Old 5th March 2012, 08:55   #26
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I've loved the hatchback cars I've had. It's like having a little pickup.
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Old 5th March 2012, 14:27   #27
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The Peel P50 would be a funny car to see being driven around.

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Old 5th March 2012, 20:00   #28
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Here it's the other way around. Pickups are pretty rare

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Old 7th March 2012, 13:05   #29
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Econoboxes like the micra here don't usually do much better than 40 mpg. Engines are rarely less than 2L. 2.4 is a lot more likely.
I regularly get 6.8L/100km (35 mpg). I never get it down to 6 (==40) and my usual driving is mostly highway.

If we were ever to move back to the States, I would get something similar to the Micra as a daily driver (e.g. Nissan Verda 1.6L sedan), for the same reasons as why I got one here -- low TCO and high quality. I see no reason to deviate from that just because the majority of other motorists may have bigger cars.

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Old 7th March 2012, 19:13   #30
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Nissan Verda
I don't think we get that one either. Probably the most popular rice here is Toyota Camry. It might get 25 hwy... downhill... with a tail wind... Nissans usually are of the yuppie shopping cart "crossover SUV" (station wagon) style. They sell a ton of trucks too.

Probably the most popular eco-box here is the Ford Escort, but that's a 2L (or more). They used to make a 1.6, but I think people got tired of getting ran over.
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Old 10th March 2012, 20:33   #31
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Here's what we have (called "subcompacts" here) if you want something small in the states.

Camrys are 25/35 (in town/highway) for the base 4-cylinder engine.
43/39 for the hybrid (and still 0-60 in 7.2 seconds!).
21/30 for the V6, but you get 268hp and go from 0-60 in just 5.7 seconds.

I just let go of a Camry V6 this past summer and averaged 29 mpg pretty much every tank back and forth to work in Iowa. This isn't really a good car for people wanting a smaller car though. Camrys are quite large these days.

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Old 11th March 2012, 03:38   #32
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Im glad i hardly drive at all, still sucks filling up my car though
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Old 11th March 2012, 13:40   #33
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uhhhh , no thanks it's not at all fuel effective.
No, you are correct. It is not. I knew a guy out in Chicago that paid to have one of those imported from E. Germany to the US. He then proceeded to fight with the department of transportation to get the vehicle declared street legal over here.

Now, to qualify that last sentence, he imported in a 60's/70's era 601 and the current year was 2005.

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Old 16th March 2012, 21:47   #34
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heh just did the math:
a) - Current price for most local pumps: €1.76/L
b) - Current price on the highway: €1.84/L
1 gallon is 3.785L
1 dollar is €0.7590

So your $5/gallon = 5 / 3.785 * 0.759 = €1,00/L

Let's calculate the other way around:

a) 1.76 * 3.785 / 0.759 = $8.78/gallon
b) 1.84 * 3.785 / 0.759 = $9.76/gallon

The prices are still rising, we aren't far from $10/gallon on the highways

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Old 16th March 2012, 22:03   #35
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So your $5/gallon = 5 / 3.785 * 0.759 = €1,00/L
Last time I remember gas being that cheap over in europe was pre euro. Late 90's maybe?
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Old 17th March 2012, 01:47   #36
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$3.899/gal for lowest grade/lowest price here now.

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Old 17th March 2012, 02:37   #37
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So, here is the thing. I just don't get it. Maybe I'm a dolt. (I'm about to flog a previously dead horse)

Gold, silver, diamonds, helium (think I am kidding? google helium shortage 2012; we're fucked and you are impacted beyond your wildest dreams due to the US selling off our reserves.): all precious resources that are not easily renewable with limited suppliers. As far as I am aware, the cost per unit of each is the same no matter what country one happens to live, given currency conversions.

Oil: precious resource that is not easily renewable with limited suppliers. Price varies wildly per country, as this thread clearly shows.

Why? I really want to know. What makes oil so different; aside from political favors per country. And if that is the case; America has a rude awakening; we've gotta catch up.
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Old 17th March 2012, 02:42   #38
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Taxes, shipping, politics, supply/demand, etc.

How precious are gold, silver, and helium to an everyday consumer? Sure they all have value, but I don't buy $400 per month of any of those, whereas I do spend $400 per month on gasoline.

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Old 17th March 2012, 02:51   #39
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Well .... honestly.

I think supply and demand does not count here. Fixed resource with limited quantities. Doesn't supply and demand go out the window in that respect, as it does with gold, silver, diamonds? Isn't that the reason why gold et. al is the same per country regardless of supply and demand? I understand they are different commodities, but does it really matter in the end?

I get the bit about every day consumer too. However, again ... fixed quantity with limited suppliers. Does it still matter?

Political favors ... well, yes. That is where I honestly think it all lies. Due to Texas politicians, due to the big three in the US, due to many other things that I am not even aware of.

Edit:

Per country taxes will account for differences too. But I don't think that is enough to make that $5/gal gas in the US cost $9/gal in NL, as wotl pointed out. I know the tax breakdown in Canada; it does not make up for the difference between CAD and USD prices for gas; neither does the currency conversion.
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Old 17th March 2012, 03:10   #40
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Within our country, taxes make the price significantly different from state to state. I'm not sure how other countries tax oil products, so I don't know if that's a major factor or not.

Our economy just wouldn't work well without lower fuel prices. Our country is just too big, with the population spread out quite a bit rather than just concentrated areas. Public transportation is nowhere near as practical here in many places, such as where I live. With European fuel prices, my wife and I would have to drive scooters or small motorcycles illegally in the winter just to afford to go to work. It's likely not as common for non-US people to have to travel so far for everyday work. Most other countries don't have quite the urban sprawl, suburbia, and outlying rural people still driving all the way back to downtown for work that we have here. They have it, but not as much.

Oil production is much easier to increase or decrease than the other-mentioned commodities, especially when the demand part is so well-influenced by political pressure. Because of this, I believe the supply-and-demand theory still applies, especially when you look at summer vs. winter, weekday vs. weekend, etc.

You need to look at OPEC to help understand it. They research everything possible to find out where to set their price points for targeted markets for maximum consistency-through-time profit. Basically, setting a price too high in a country will lead it to pursue alternative energy or more efficient means such as public transportation, which hurts sales. Setting it too low reduces profits, without necessarily increasing product volume sales (in other words, lower gas prices could encourage me drive a little more, but not all that much more, so keeping a price somewhat high helps the business, knowing I still have to pay for about the same number of gallons).

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