Old 26th October 2012, 04:04   #1
Xennex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 35
library advice / duplicate albums

Hi,

I've always used Winamp as my player and recently started getting 'serious' about my audio collection. I found that MediaMonkey is great (perhaps) for organizing a library but is butt ugly as a player. Windows Media Player doesn't include Ogg and Flac in its library even though you can get DirectShow filters for it. iTunes suffers from the same. So I turned again to Winamp to see how I can make the most of its library cq. jukebox functionality.

Now everything seems to go swell and I still have to fix my entire library in terms of tags and such. Using MusicBrainz Picard to update tags and MediaMonkey to download album art.

My plan is to separate all albums into genres and then use a tool to set every music file in those subdirectories to the specified genre, so my file-based organisation will mirror my genre settings. To hell with 'proper genres', I will just use genre for organisation.

Now I don't care that much for FLAC cause I can't hear the difference anyway, but I do store all my original CDs in FLAC format just in case I ever need to burn it again. The way I have set it up, is to have an "albums/genre/artist - album/" hierarchy as well as my flac archive in "flac-archive/artist - album/".

In the past I would *normally* only use the albums hierarchy, but sometimes I would traverse the flac-archive hierarchy.

Now at first sight I would just venture to dump both hierarchies into the Winamp library, but a problem surfaces. If Winamp finds a duplicate album, it will list the tracks from both directories in the album view, meaning that all tracks get listed twice, once in mp3 version and once in flac version.

So question number one: Is it mandatory to remove duplicate albums from the library?

Question number two: What would you advise me to do?

What I can do is just remove all flac albums from the /albums/ hierarchy, put all of them in the /flac-archive/ hierarchy, then transcode them all to 320kbps mp3, dump those versions back into /albums/, and then just only load /albums/ (and /various/ and /soundtrack/) into the Winamp library.

That has the added benefit of making it easier to sync or copy my library to low-capacity devices such as my netbook and my mobile phone. I will then also get rid of all Ogg Vorbis albums if I can to ensure broader compatibility, but that's something of a loose end.

It seems like a sensible way to proceed. Would love to hear what you have to say on any of this - I'm just treading my way through the river of music organisation.

I won't be doing any streaming in my home. The PC and the netbook will just drive the receivers/radios. I'll probably get a bluetooth dongle/receiver to make it a lil easier. That means in all likelyhood I will be running Winamp on both devices.
Xennex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th October 2012, 17:19   #2
Xennex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 35
Let's forget about only having mp3 albums in my library.

I can clearly feel the difference between a flac track and the same track transcoded to mp3 by MediaMonkey at 320kbps.

So I would prefer to have both mp3 albums and flac album in my library but this doesn't seem possible?

Maybe I should keep both in my file structure and then remove the mp3 versions from the library but that is annoying.

Help?

Is it possible to have Winamp mask an mp3 file in its library if an equivalent flac file is present?
Xennex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th October 2012, 17:31   #3
DrO
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
Is it possible to have Winamp mask an mp3 file in its library if an equivalent flac file is present?
nope. the only workaround i can think off is to have one set of views which have look for files ending with .flac and another set that look for .mp3, etc. but having one file appear the same just isn't possible since the filepath is the key to the db entry.

-daz
DrO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th October 2012, 18:20   #4
Xennex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 35
I don't know yet about this "view" functionality. Is this a pro feature?

I think what I'll do is create a file structure including flac and mp3 files. Then I'll dump the "mp3 copies" into a different hierarchy outside of my library. Or maybe the pro version has a transcoding feature that is so useful that I won't need to keep copies?
Xennex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2012, 09:04   #5
MrSinatra
Forum King
 
MrSinatra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WKPS, State College
Posts: 5,625
Send a message via AIM to MrSinatra
Xennex,

we are very similar. i have flac and mp3, and i use a few broad genres in my folder structure.

what DrO is talking about is "smartviews" and they are part of the free app. you will be able to do what you want with them. they can filter the view by whatever custom criteria you want.

here is an example file path:

C:\AUDIO\music\mdw\mp3\Rips\ROCK\1-CLASSIC\Beatles\Abbey Road\files.mp3

so "audio" is the root, and the next is "music" the idea there is to put audio related files in there i don't otherwise want as part of the music library.

music then gets split into source subdirectories, where i use initials or whatever to determine where i got the music, which is importnt in case i ever get more from that source. mdw is me.

i then set the format, and this is one way (but not the only way) you could set winamp to only show you FLAC in a smartview. if u divide your music by format in the folder structure, which i think is only sensible, then this is the easiest way to do it.

"Rips" indicates the file was ripped from a CD by me or someone i know, while "DLs" would indicate it was downloaded from off the net.

then i set the genre, and then this one has a subgenre, and i used a numeral for it to order it in windows explorer.

then the artist gets their own folder, and after that each album per cd, and finally the files.

now...

here is the list of genres i use in my files tags, and its slowly evolving:

Quote:
Classic Rock
Rock & Roll
Rock n Roots
Rock
Hard Rock
Alt Rock
Southern Rock
Arena Rock
Grunge
Psychedelic Rock
Progressive Rock
Metal
Punk
New Wave

Industrial
Techno
Goth

Funk
Disco
R&B
Blues
Jazz

Rap
Reggae

Singer Songwriter
Guitar God
Symphonic

Adult Pop
Pop
Showtunes
Swing
Easy Listening

Celtic
Classical

Country
Bluegrass
Folk

Comedy
Radio Show
Television
Effects
Christmas
Halloween
i adjust my tags however i like, but i try to be more generic and broad in my storage on disc, and that really is no longer evolving. one other thing i sometimes do, is i might give an artist like Stevie Ray Vaughan a "Blues" tag, but store him in the "ROCK\1-CLASSIC" folder, so that a smartview might find him in either / or.

i have far fewer folder genres than tag genres, but i maintain this b/c i have some 60k+ files, and its easier to find things for me this way, then scrolling huge lists, and as i just explained, it has other uses, esp in smartviews.

i would create your FLAC folder system, then find a script of some utility or something that creates a mp3 dupe, of both your folder system and your tags. then create smartviews to show flac or mp3, since you'd need mp3 for portables.

i''d also recommend getting to know www.mp3tag.de/en and using only id3v2.3 tags for your mp3s. i also use only one "Folder.jpg" per album folder, and i keep a copy of it in there just in case a virus or WMP or something messes it up.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
MrSinatra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2012, 16:57   #6
Xennex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 35
Hi MrSinatra,

thank you for your in-depth reply.

But I don't really understand the value of using smart views to separate the audio collection into logical subsets.

It would not be hard for me to remove the mp3 albums from the hierarchy and place them in a 'transcode' or 'mp3' folder. Then I'd have a single view of the music collection. The whole idea is to have a unified view. FLAC vs MP3 is not a logical distinction that should have meaning for the music (collection). (Cause then I have to remember which ones are FLAC and which ones aren't).

Well, maybe it would be useful but I can't think of a reason to want to browse the FLAC view when searching for something to play. The whole idea of the jukebox is to have all albums in a single collection so I can find what I'm looking for by looking at pictures/names.

What I need is for a view to filter results based on OTHER results in the library, but this doesn't seem possible.

Something like

type = 0 && lossless = 0 && existduplicate(lossless = 1) = 0

Cause... what we're doing with the views is separate a single hierarchy into multiple sets, whereas I need it to merge hierarchy splits into a single view.

In any case it's a bit weird behaviour that Winamp just dumps files of distinct folders into the same album, listing duplicate tracks like this:

Xennex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2012, 17:05   #7
MrSinatra
Forum King
 
MrSinatra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WKPS, State College
Posts: 5,625
Send a message via AIM to MrSinatra
winamp ignores folder location for whats in an album b/c itunes in its stupidity puts tracks of comps into multiple folders based on track artist.

but i do not understand why my solution is not good for you?

you have flacs, and you have a mirror of them as mp3s, yes?

if so, just jukebox your flacs. if you only show flacs in a smartview, you won't see dupes.

what is it i am not getting?

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
MrSinatra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2012, 17:42   #8
Xennex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 35
The vast majority of my albums is not FLAC but only MP3.

All the CDs I own myself are flac, but rarely can I download something that is flac.

I have 278 albums (a bit less because I haven't tagged everything correctly yet) of which 65 flac albums. That's not counting all the junk I'm not putting into the library, the junk consists of another 2800 files.

Well, maybe I'll go about categorizing some of it.

Any case, if I take a view that shows only FLAC, then basically I will only be seeing my own CDs + a few, and I want my entire collection.
Xennex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2012, 19:13   #9
MrSinatra
Forum King
 
MrSinatra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WKPS, State College
Posts: 5,625
Send a message via AIM to MrSinatra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
The vast majority of my albums is not FLAC but only MP3.

All the CDs I own myself are flac, but rarely can I download something that is flac.

I have 278 albums (a bit less because I haven't tagged everything correctly yet) of which 65 flac albums. That's not counting all the junk I'm not putting into the library, the junk consists of another 2800 files.

Well, maybe I'll go about categorizing some of it.

Any case, if I take a view that shows only FLAC, then basically I will only be seeing my own CDs + a few, and I want my entire collection.
ok, so thats what i wasn't getting.

in your situation, what i would do is create something like this:

..\audio\music\..
and
..\audio\transcoded-mirror\..

so, your entire collection, MINUS the mp3 mirrors of FLACs, would be in the first one, and a smartview would exist of just the first one, while at the same time, you'd have a second smartview of the second one, which would show just the mirrored mp3s made from FLACs.

you could even make a 3rd smartview that would show all the transcoded mp3s, and all your other mp3s, but minus the FLACs.

would this not work for what you want, or do you need more than that?

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
MrSinatra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2012, 19:31   #10
Xennex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 35
Yeah that is what I was getting at. I don't even need a second smart view listing the transcoded mp3s, I won't be playing them anyway (unless I need to use winamp to load a media device.

And it's a fine solution just a bit odd to throw mp3 and flac together and then duplicate mp3 out, since it's on disk I would have preferred so separate mp3 from flac OR throw them all together. I'm also keeping archive copies of everything I have ripped myself, which means I will have a flac-only dir, a mp3-only dir, and a combined dir ;-). Windows/NTFS doesn't support soft-linking directories so it will be a lot of storage space. Currently 19GB extra. Not too bad.

Anyway, I'm making a fuss over nothing big now ;-).
Xennex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2012, 19:44   #11
MrSinatra
Forum King
 
MrSinatra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WKPS, State College
Posts: 5,625
Send a message via AIM to MrSinatra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
Yeah that is what I was getting at. I don't even need a second smart view listing the transcoded mp3s, I won't be playing them anyway (unless I need to use winamp to load a media device.
well, you could just use the 3rd view for that, since it would be all mp3. but for maintenance reasons you might find the second view useful, as well as a FLAC only view, b/c that way you could see quickly that you had an exact match in file count, (ie. you could be sure every flac had a mp3 dupe).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
And it's a fine solution just a bit odd to throw mp3 and flac together and then duplicate mp3 out, since it's on disk I would have preferred so separate mp3 from flac OR throw them all together.
in the first folder i suggested, you could continue to break it down, so like this:

..\audio\music\FLAC\..
and
..\audio\music\mp3\..

it would not be a problem to do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
I'm also keeping archive copies of everything I have ripped myself, which means I will have a flac-only dir, a mp3-only dir, and a combined dir ;-). Windows/NTFS doesn't support soft-linking directories so it will be a lot of storage space. Currently 19GB extra. Not too bad.

Anyway, I'm making a fuss over nothing big now ;-).
i'm not sure i follow this... what i do is just setup the storage the way i want it to be "in production" ie. in use, and then i periodically copy the whole thing to a backup drive.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
MrSinatra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2012, 20:50   #12
Xennex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 35
Quote:
in the first folder i suggested, you could continue to break it down, so like this:

..\audio\music\FLAC\..
and
..\audio\music\mp3\..

it would not be a problem to do that.
Yeah... then I'd have /mp3/, /flac/, /flac-archive/ and /mp3-dupes/.

I also sometimes would like to be able to traverse the folder hierarchy of course.

Then I'd end up with

/audio/albums/mp3/
/audio/albums/flac/
/audio/flac-archive/
/audio/mp3-dupes/

That'd be annoying, another level to the hierarchy. So I'll just do

/audio/albums/....
/audio/flac-archive/
/audio/mp3-dupes/

For some reason I prefer to keep a distinct collection on disk called "flac-archive" where I'll put the 'backups' of my CDs. Then most of those folders end up in the main /albums/ structure as well. I have a backup of the entire thing on a second external harddisk.

I've always been very fond of Unix softlinking, at least, when it's done in anything of an automated way. If Windows supported softlinking, I would just keep the flac folders in /flac-archive/ and then link to those folders from the /albums/%genre%/ hierarchy like this:

/albums/piano/elijah bossenbroek - harmony in disarray [2004, flac]/ ->
/flac-archive/elijah bossenbroek - harmony in disarray [2004, flac]/

Then on disk it would be a single folder, but it would be accessible from two locations.

In fact, if it were automated, one could also dump all flac albums and all mp3 albums into single folders /flac/ and /mp3/ and then link to those locations from the /albums/%genre%/ hierarchy. It is very powerful, but hard to maintain. A jukeboxing software could create any kind of softlinking hierachy based on tags, in any way it would wish, without moving files - thereby making useful directory structures that could then be harnessed by other software based on the available file structure. You would set up all tags and genres, setup a naming hierarchy/structure, hit a button and presto - a complete beautiful organised directory hierarchy. You would have file hierarchies that would exactly and precisely mirror the metadata of the collection. That would empower users to use file-based traversing and copying whenever they liked it, in the way that they like it.

Well, I guess we do it the other way around. We organize music into a hierarchy and then obtain tags from that, or just ignore the hierarchy altogether.

If this design existed, I would probably organise all albums into an initial letter hierarchy like /a/autumn's glow, /b/blimey!, with flac and mp3 together, and then use the virtual hierarchy metadata system to split that hierarchy into something that would be useful for Winamp.
Xennex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2012, 15:22   #13
MrSinatra
Forum King
 
MrSinatra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WKPS, State College
Posts: 5,625
Send a message via AIM to MrSinatra
i have read this several times, but i find it confusing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
Yeah... then I'd have /mp3/, /flac/, /flac-archive/ and /mp3-dupes/.

I also sometimes would like to be able to traverse the folder hierarchy of course.

Then I'd end up with

/audio/albums/mp3/
/audio/albums/flac/
/audio/flac-archive/
/audio/mp3-dupes/

That'd be annoying, another level to the hierarchy. So I'll just do

/audio/albums/....
/audio/flac-archive/
/audio/mp3-dupes/

For some reason I prefer to keep a distinct collection on disk called "flac-archive" where I'll put the 'backups' of my CDs. Then most of those folders end up in the main /albums/ structure as well. I have a backup of the entire thing on a second external harddisk.

I've always been very fond of Unix softlinking, at least, when it's done in anything of an automated way. If Windows supported softlinking, I would just keep the flac folders in /flac-archive/ and then link to those folders from the /albums/%genre%/ hierarchy like this:

/albums/piano/elijah bossenbroek - harmony in disarray [2004, flac]/ ->
/flac-archive/elijah bossenbroek - harmony in disarray [2004, flac]/

Then on disk it would be a single folder, but it would be accessible from two locations.

In fact, if it were automated, one could also dump all flac albums and all mp3 albums into single folders /flac/ and /mp3/ and then link to those locations from the /albums/%genre%/ hierarchy. It is very powerful, but hard to maintain. A jukeboxing software could create any kind of softlinking hierachy based on tags, in any way it would wish, without moving files - thereby making useful directory structures that could then be harnessed by other software based on the available file structure. You would set up all tags and genres, setup a naming hierarchy/structure, hit a button and presto - a complete beautiful organised directory hierarchy. You would have file hierarchies that would exactly and precisely mirror the metadata of the collection. That would empower users to use file-based traversing and copying whenever they liked it, in the way that they like it.

Well, I guess we do it the other way around. We organize music into a hierarchy and then obtain tags from that, or just ignore the hierarchy altogether.

If this design existed, I would probably organise all albums into an initial letter hierarchy like /a/autumn's glow, /b/blimey!, with flac and mp3 together, and then use the virtual hierarchy metadata system to split that hierarchy into something that would be useful for Winamp.
i think its not really pertinent to talk about softlinking, since this is winamp and windows. if you would describe the goals you want to achieve within winamp but keeping it confined to whats actually possible (or nomal) with windows, i'll be more helpful to you.

having said that, i think winamp really does for the most part, ignore folder structure. this frees you to do whatever folder structure you like. (its a bit more restrictive with album art, but not much)

but regardless, i'm not sure i understand your goals, or where you see winamp failing them?

if you want a jukebox of all your files, without dupes, you can do this. just setup the smartview and folder structure such that the grouping only has one copy of each song. winamp will not care about format, it will show them all together. u could even have half an album as flac, and half as mp3, np, it will show as one album.

i think its only sensible to keep mp3 and flac clearly separated on HD, and to keep backups, archives, mirrors, etc, outside of the "jukebox" view by placing them ouside the folder structure the jukebox smartview is to present. but even if you divide mp3s and flacs on the HD for the "whole music collections jukebox view," that will be transparent to winamp.

to me, the folder structure is mostly about ease of maint. yes, i do use it to a degree in how i display things in winamp, but there is no need to do so. whether you split flacs/mp3s on HD or not for the jukebox view, it will look the same in winamp.

you probably understand all this already, but i guess i am just not understanding your goals, or how winamp is not realizing them, if it in fact isn't?

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
MrSinatra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2012, 22:44   #14
Xennex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 35
How would you advise me on multiple disc albums?

MusicBrainz Picard uses the same album title for both discs but uses disc# to differentiate.

Difficulty is that Winamp then shows both discs as one album, meaning you can't just queue a single disc.

Solution is to let MusicBrainz do it's job and then change the album tag to CD1 / CD2 / Bonus CD / etc.

Winamp should really have a way to show in its library the different discs belonging to a single album, for example by appending (disc 1) or (CD1) after the album title.

Xennex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2012, 13:39   #15
MrSinatra
Forum King
 
MrSinatra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WKPS, State College
Posts: 5,625
Send a message via AIM to MrSinatra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
How would you advise me on multiple disc albums?

MusicBrainz Picard uses the same album title for both discs but uses disc# to differentiate.

Difficulty is that Winamp then shows both discs as one album, meaning you can't just queue a single disc.

Solution is to let MusicBrainz do it's job and then change the album tag to CD1 / CD2 / Bonus CD / etc.

Winamp should really have a way to show in its library the different discs belonging to a single album, for example by appending (disc 1) or (CD1) after the album title.
how i would advise you depends on how you want things to look.

personally, what i do, i delete ALL Disc, Discnumber, TotalDiscs, etc tags. i don't use them at all.

i then manually add something like " (CD1) " or " (Disc 1) " to the album name field of the tag. i do this b/c i don't want 4 discs worth of tracks in one album art. i like a strict one art per one CD representation of my rips. (and this works with all apps, i use things other than winamp). some people, not me, hate "abusing" the album title tag in this way.

anyway, i don't really know how winamp handles it when you don't append the album name, and use just Disc tags. you may need to experiment though, as there might be a way to get winamp to respect disc tags... (but i kinda doubt it)

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
MrSinatra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2013, 00:13   #16
mizr3en
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8
Combine multiple albums

I just wanted to clarify for those who are having issues with the same album showing up multiple times in the "Album" window. You may be running into issues where the "Artist" and "Album" column are exactly the same for the whole disc, yet two (or more) albums are displayed with some of the songs on it and the rest are on the other. To have only one album art display for all the tracks on the album, you need to change "Album Artist" not just the "Artist" field.

This probably has little to do with the problems discussed in this thread, but my issue landed me here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
how i would advise you depends on how you want things to look.

personally, what i do, i delete ALL Disc, Discnumber, TotalDiscs, etc tags. i don't use them at all.

i then manually add something like " (CD1) " or " (Disc 1) " to the album name field of the tag. i do this b/c i don't want 4 discs worth of tracks in one album art. i like a strict one art per one CD representation of my rips. (and this works with all apps, i use things other than winamp). some people, not me, hate "abusing" the album title tag in this way.

anyway, i don't really know how winamp handles it when you don't append the album name, and use just Disc tags. you may need to experiment though, as there might be a way to get winamp to respect disc tags... (but i kinda doubt it)
mizr3en is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd April 2013, 02:08   #17
siavash119
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 25
wow i just lost my whole post lol.

Sorry if I haven't read the whole thread, but if you have a smart view that shows duplicate albums of multiple file types, you can add an "extension" column to the track view then sort by the column. It won't remove the duplicate tracks, but at least you can sort by extension easily.

I do wish we could customize the views a bit more or add blacklists to the watch folders though. Like if you deleted something from your media library that is in a watch folder, Winamp would ask, "would you like to blacklist this folder?". As of now, it just re-adds it to the library next time you rescan the folders.

Anyway I'd recommend messing around with the columns: you can add "extension", "discnumber", etc. I wish the team included some columns available to the track view to the genre, artist, album views, but I hope the above helps you out.

siavash119 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2012, 17:09   #18
Xennex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 35
Well then you use the same strategy. It is unacceptable that a disc that might contain four discs shows up as a single playlist entity, thereby disallowing you to queue them individually.

Right now I'm adding (CD1) after the naming schedule has been set up ("102 - Track 2 on Disc 1.mp3"). This confuses the hell out of Picard, but I'm doing it with MediaMonkey who doesn't care much.

As to my goals with winamp, they're already being realized. It's a bit messy, but it would be with other players (like Logitech Media Server) as well.

What I'm doing is:
- setup tags with Picard while retaing date YYYY format. This reformats naming structure for files and tries to save album art.
- add leading zeros to track# with MediaMonkey
- reformat naming structure with MediaMonkey for single-disc single-author albums if still needed
- auto-add playlists with MediaMonkey
- change multi disc albums to (CD#) format with MediaMonkey
- change ##/## track number format to ## with Mp3Tag

Style I'm following is:
- naming format:
code:
/AlbumArtist - Album [Year, ext]/00 - Album.m3u
## - Title.ext
### - Title.ext
## - Artist - Title.ext


- multi-disc albums get put in the same folder with ### structure but have different album tag

That's the only thing that's really messy: I won't be able to use Picard on those split albums, nor MediaMonkey.

Any case, thank you for your time.

One last question: why did you mention using only id3v2.3 tags? Right now my tags are probably all over the place.
Xennex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2012, 17:17   #19
MrSinatra
Forum King
 
MrSinatra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WKPS, State College
Posts: 5,625
Send a message via AIM to MrSinatra
i am a recovering squeezebox user. its really gone to shit esp since logitech bought it but it did educate me a lot about proper tagging.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
MrSinatra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2012, 17:34   #20
Xennex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 35
Right. Mp3Tag lists my tags as ID3v2.3 (ID3v1 ID3v2.3) and sometimes ID3v2.3 (ID3v1 Lyrics3v2 ID3v2.3) and sometimes APEv2 as well.
Xennex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2012, 17:37   #21
MrSinatra
Forum King
 
MrSinatra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WKPS, State College
Posts: 5,625
Send a message via AIM to MrSinatra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
Right. Mp3Tag lists my tags as ID3v2.3 (ID3v1 ID3v2.3) and sometimes ID3v2.3 (ID3v1 Lyrics3v2 ID3v2.3) and sometimes APEv2 as well.
i would set the options in mp3tag such so that when i did a mass tag cut and paste, it left behind only id3v2.3 tags, unless you want the other stuff for some reason.

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=345521

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
MrSinatra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2012, 18:24   #22
Xennex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 35
hmm it seems like I can do a safe cut and paste on all files, and it will put back id3v2.3 tags on mp3s, Vorbis tags on ogg, and FLAC tags on flac.

going to make a backup of the tree and then do a mass cut 'n paste to see what i end up with .
Xennex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2012, 18:32   #23
MrSinatra
Forum King
 
MrSinatra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WKPS, State College
Posts: 5,625
Send a message via AIM to MrSinatra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
hmm it seems like I can do a safe cut and paste on all files, and it will put back id3v2.3 tags on mp3s, Vorbis tags on ogg, and FLAC tags on flac.

going to make a backup of the tree and then do a mass cut 'n paste to see what i end up with .
in theory that should be safe to do, but in general what i do in such situations is one file format at a time.

if it botches, hopefully an "undo" will fix it. although there may be undo issues with embedded artwork, (which i never use, so i can't speak more to that)

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
MrSinatra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2012, 18:56   #24
Xennex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 35
i have something very peculiar.

most if not all of my .ogg albums have Album Artist set only partially or not at all. All of those folders have been processed by Picard so they should have been set correctly. It is always the first number of files that don't have the tag, and the latter parts of the album do have it. If I save again with Picard, it does set them. Very strange.

it doesn't seem to have been caused by Mp3Tag because my original tree also has it.

in any case, the mass cut and paste operation seems to have been succesful ;-) .
Xennex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2012, 19:03   #25
MrSinatra
Forum King
 
MrSinatra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WKPS, State College
Posts: 5,625
Send a message via AIM to MrSinatra
i can't speak to OGG, b/c i don't use it at all. however, i edited in a link above, to the id3 info, and there i mention that in winamp, it does "guessing" of metadata in two places, and another similar option, and all should be off so the power user can see the reality of the tags. other software has similar things as well, (unfortunately in my view).

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
MrSinatra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2012, 19:15   #26
Xennex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 35
-- never mind, I found it.

what appears to be the fact is that half of my ogg files had "ALBUM ARTIST" tag and the other half had "ALBUMARTIST". Mp3Tag sets it to ALBUMARTIST but leaves ALBUM ARTIST as well.

could it be that Winamp sets ALBUM ARTIST on open/play?

doesn't really agree with the facts either, and I can't reproduce it.
Xennex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2012, 20:09   #27
MrSinatra
Forum King
 
MrSinatra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WKPS, State College
Posts: 5,625
Send a message via AIM to MrSinatra
some apps, like winamp, will merge several things for display. so it will read many, prefer one if multiple exist, and write only to the preferred one. i believe winamp writes it with the space, but for id3 its a bit different, as 4 char codes are used, TPE2.

mp3tag meanwhile, does not merge them, unless set to in the tag mapping options. by default, it wants it without the space.

in mp3tag, i "unmapped" them, gave each their own column, and deleted all the ones winamp doesn't like after making sure the info was in the ones winamp did like.

winamp will not automatically write any tags without being instructed to.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
MrSinatra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd November 2012, 19:55   #28
Xennex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 35
There seems to be no issue atm, but I expect issues at some point if the tag is in the wrong column. In any case, it is easy to fix thanks to Mp3tag.

One more question...

why did you describe yourself as a "recovering" Squeezebox user?

was it that bad? :P .

I'm planning to buy a Squeezebox Touch because its senseless to put a device on top of my stereo (because it would be located next to my computer. Imagine that, a personal computer running most of the time and then having a streamer right next to it.. adding almost zero functionality in terms of where you have to be to use it). So I'm getting the Touch and it will sit in an entirely different place and eat nachos.

There seems to be no alternative to the Squeezebox. Furthermore I also have a Boom in the bedroom so it might be useful to have a SB server running. I just hate the controls of the Boom. They are not intuitive to me.
Xennex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2012, 15:10   #29
MrSinatra
Forum King
 
MrSinatra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WKPS, State College
Posts: 5,625
Send a message via AIM to MrSinatra
first, regarding the tags...

ALBUMARTIST and ALBUM ARTIST are two different, and distinct frames from one another. a file can have both simultaneously, and the info in each can be divergent.

a file can also have multiples, so three frames of ALBUM ARTIST each with a different value.

thats all very confusing and why i try to K.I.S.S., so i conform my files to all have only one AA frame, and thats the one that winamp WRITES to and prefers, meaning the one with the space.

keep in mind, this mainly applies to Vorbis comments, i.e. Ogg and FLAC, as id3 now has a de facto standard of using only TPE2 for AA.

so in mp3tag, i make sure nothing is mapped, and create columns for all the permutations i can think of, and then delete or move everything out of the columns winamp doesn't prefer, and use only the one it does (in this case, with the space). THEN i map that column in mp3tag, b/c i believe mp3tag by default prefers it without the space. and as you found out, unlike winamp, mp3tag does not merge similar fields/frames automatically, (with good reason obviously).

this is all important to know, b/c otherwise you could end up with a situation where winamp denotes the "with the space" data, but some other app or device denotes the same file's "without the space" data. and worse yet, you could have divergent data in similar fields, which for an app like LMS/SBS, causes chaos.

second, regarding SB,

surely you must realize it sucks? why exactly does someone need it?

most people are happy with itunes/airplay. it is much cheaper, and a lot easier and fun to use. airport express, apple tv, etc... cheap and easy. iphones and iwhatever do remote control.

personally, i hate apple stuff, so i look for alternatives. the reason i got a SB2 and later a duet, is b/c it would work without apple, and it was HQ audio. but i can do the same thing today with a cheap laptop with HDMI out. plus a cheap laptop with HDMI out will do video and all the things a computer can do. my droid can control the winamp remotely. a touch is an absolutely stupid, overpriced device that was poorly conceived and poorly executed.

and don't get me started on the server, which is some of the worst software i have ever used. totally unfun, and more than likely responsible for the death of two of my system drives.

my question to you is what utility do you get out of squeeze stuff that you could not get in better, cheaper, ways? you may have some answers to that, but the market POV is that other solutions are better. squeeze is going to die, they've already basically killed off development of the server. its just a logitech disaster.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
MrSinatra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2012, 17:20   #30
Xennex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 35
You seem pretty angry.

You made the ALBUM ARTIST distinction clear now. Personally I feel "ALBUM ARTIST" is an odd appearance because it's the only tag (frame) that has a space in it, within the vorbis list of comments. Maybe you're right and I should go to great lengths to preserve it, but time will tell.

About SqueezeBox, yes it appears to suck. The main reason it sucks is that you can't push (stream) music to it from a laptop device, thereby completely splitting the functionality you need, which is either library access, or youtube fun. If you could do that, it would function as AirPlay, but I assume Apple is barring the gates to the apple cart located within the palace garden. So if I get it, I will still need Airport Express (which I don't want for the same reasons as you), or to get a bluetooth dongle and receiver, or to draw a rather longish cable to my netbook wherever I am. The bluetooth will have degraded audio quality since there are only (cheap) solutions with analog audio out for the receiver.

Logitech Media Server is indeed not great to use from the webservice point of view. But if my netbook is running, I won't use that anyway and bypass the SB. There seem to be control apps for iPhone/android, but it is still confined to accessing whatever you have put into the LMS library, which is rather unflexible and indeed, not very fun.

The reason for me to get the Touch is that I have long yearned for a way to get information about what is currently playing withOUT having to open a display or run a computer. A way to see album art. You can bet my netbook will be closed when not operating it. Any tablet or phone I might have would either directly operate the SB or stream directly to the bluetooth.

The fact that these two things would get totally split is the most unfun part of it to me.

I didn't know SB was a dying brand. My sincere apologies ;-). On the WhatHifi forums, people seem to recommend them without regard. In any case, the solution I have now, which is to run a cable to my netbook (actually I'm not doing that now because the cable I bought is too short and the other cable is low quality analog) is not THAT great of a solution either. What I wanted to get is a usb soundcard/dac with optical output and then run that to my receiver or DAC. It's not very flexible, and I'd be having to stick a usb device into my netbook, which is not very fun. But I'm thinking now the best solution is to get that usb thing and then to run an analog cable to my receiver.

I never found the Squeezebox Boom fun to use. It's a horrible user interface, even when some reviewers call it "intuitive". I would rather walk to my living room to use the Logitech server from a webbrowser, rather than use that horrible menu structure.

I believe the death of Squeezebox was spelled when Logitech acquired it.

I'm hoping the SB ecosystem will survive... for home use. It's development should be in the hands of independent devs. That's the kind of product it is.

But I have no alternative currently. I can get bluetooth/analog speakers, sure. For the Boom. That would be excellent, then I can operate those speakers with my netbook. For the bedroom I need something that can handle bluetooth and minijack. Currently the Boom does the analog part, which is enough for now.

For the living room I need something more. Tablet running Winamp streaming from the network harddisk seems would need bluetooth to connect to my Hifi. But the netwerk harddisk I was going to buy can connect to a USB sound card that would be able to connect via optical to my Hifi. Then I can operate it via a tablet. That might be a much better solution in the end.

Thank you for your consideration. I need to get hands-on experience with Android before I decide on anything. I have an Android phone coming in within a few weeks, so that'll be the test. I'm going to be checking out USB dacs that support optical output for use with the Synology DiskStation.
Xennex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2012, 17:55   #31
MrSinatra
Forum King
 
MrSinatra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WKPS, State College
Posts: 5,625
Send a message via AIM to MrSinatra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
You seem pretty angry.
only pretty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
You made the ALBUM ARTIST distinction clear now. Personally I feel "ALBUM ARTIST" is an odd appearance because it's the only tag (frame) that has a space in it, within the vorbis list of comments. Maybe you're right and I should go to great lengths to preserve it, but time will tell.
well, the thing is if your files DON'T use it with the space, then later if you use winamp to edit it, it will add the frame with the space, and leave the orig frame and data intact. in winamp, everything will look fine, but in other apps, like mp3tag, you'll wonder whats going on. (this is a problem in many apps, not just winamp)

Vorbis has no proper spec, so with or without is an ongoing issue. neither one is right or wrong, but it would be nice if there was a de facto standard set by the major apps. its annoying that they work at cross purposes. (personally, i like with the space, but i would accept either as long as it was universal)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
About SqueezeBox, yes it appears to suck. The main reason it sucks is that you can't push (stream) music to it from a laptop device, thereby completely splitting the functionality you need, which is either library access, or youtube fun.
thats one of my beefs with it; it should be a remote soundcard if you will, allowing any app to play to it. instead it requires you install a BS server to play only with it, and thru it, to the hardware.

it does provide remote library access though, you can use android or istuff to remote control it.

it also does have some (weakish) DLNA support, and the ability to allow an app to "tune into" it as if it were a shoutcast DNAS.

but there are far better solutions out there for any of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
If you could do that, it would function as AirPlay, but I assume Apple is barring the gates to the apple cart located within the palace garden. So if I get it, I will still need Airport Express (which I don't want for the same reasons as you), or to get a bluetooth dongle and receiver, or to draw a rather longish cable to my netbook wherever I am. The bluetooth will have degraded audio quality since there are only (cheap) solutions with analog audio out for the receiver.
for what you pay to buy a touch or any of that audio only SB stuff, you could just get a laptop with a HDMI out. its purpose would be to sit, lid down, in the TV cabinet, and play audio or video. install winamp on it, and remote control it with android.

use remote desktop to do video or whatnot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
Logitech Media Server is indeed not great to use from the webservice point of view. But if my netbook is running, I won't use that anyway and bypass the SB. There seem to be control apps for iPhone/android, but it is still confined to accessing whatever you have put into the LMS library, which is rather unflexible and indeed, not very fun.
painful! i hate it.

if you just want something to do random mixes, and some control on your phone, its good enough for that. but thats about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
The reason for me to get the Touch is that I have long yearned for a way to get information about what is currently playing withOUT having to open a display or run a computer. A way to see album art. You can bet my netbook will be closed when not operating it.
i can see album art and control winamp on my phone using the aWAR droid app, (there are more apps than that but i like that one). no need to have a computer display on. and the computer can do winamp visualizations on the TV as well, (or not). obviously, it can just do audio when run into a receiver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
Any tablet or phone I might have would either directly operate the SB or stream directly to the bluetooth.
i don't follow this... where or why would u use bluetooth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
The fact that these two things would get totally split is the most unfun part of it to me.
?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
I didn't know SB was a dying brand. My sincere apologies ;-). On the WhatHifi forums, people seem to recommend them without distinction, so to say. In any case, the solution I have now, which is to run a cable to my netbook (actually I'm not doing that now because the cable I bought is too short and the other cable is low quality analog) is not THAT great of a solution either. What I wanted to get is a usb soundcard/dac with optical output and then run that to my receiver or DAC. It's not very flexible, and I'd be having to stick a usb device into my netbook, which is not very fun. But I'm thinking now the best solution is to get that usb thing and then to run an analog cable to my receiver.
what inputs does your receiver have?

why not just get a little laptop/netbook with digital/HDMI outs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
I never found the Squeezebox Boom fun to use. It's a horrible user interface, even when some reviewers call it "intuitive". I would rather walk to my living room to use the Logitech server from a webbrowser, rather than use that horrible menu structure.

I believe the death of Squeezebox was spelled when Logitech acquired it.

I'm hoping the SB ecosystem will survive... for home use. It's development should be in the hands of independent devs. That's the kind of product it is.
the main problem with it, as i see it, is that other cheaper solutiuons are better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
But I have no alternative currently. I can get bluetooth/analog speakers, sure. For the Boom. That would be excellent, then I can operate those speakers with my netbook. For the bedroom I need something that can handle bluetooth and minijack. Currently the Boom does the analog part, which is enough for now.
i'm not sure i follow you here either. what do you need to accomplish in the bedroom? seriously tho, what audio goals do you have there?

you could get a small laptop, hook it up to your receiver, and run winamp and server on it. then let the boom work as it is supposed to. (assuming the laptop can be hardwired to the router, another not fun thing).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
For the living room I need something more. Tablet running Winamp streaming from the network harddisk seems would need bluetooth to connect to my Hifi. But the netwerk harddisk I was going to buy can connect to a USB sound card that would be able to connect via optical to my Hifi. Then I can operate it via a tablet. That might be a much better solution in the end.
just to be clear, i do not advocate bluetooth for most things, except niche stuff. anytime i said to run winamp on a laptop or tablet, i meant on a full OS, not droid.

i use a droid just to remote control it, thats all. winamp on the droid could play via bluetooth, but thats not how i'd setup my home situation. (bluetooth isn't much better than airplay for audio quality)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xennex View Post
Thank you for your consideration. I need to get hands-on experience with Android before I decide on anything. I have an Android phone coming in within a few weeks, so that'll be the test. I'm going to be checking out USB dacs that support optical output for use with the Synology DiskStation.
i don't know why you want to do a USB DAC? doesn't your receiver have any digital inputs? if it does, just get a good laptop/netbook instead of a touch, and you'll enjoy it so much more.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
MrSinatra is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Winamp > Winamp Discussion

Tags
duplicate, library

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump