Old 2nd September 2003, 15:36   #1
Bizzeh
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"Games" to photorealistic?

games like "gran turismo" is what im talking about... it isnt a game anymore... its just the developers making very good renders of cars... they are losing the gameplay factor.
i would like a game to be a game, somthing playable, not totaly imposible to control. remember.. its people that are ages 5 - 30 that video games are aimed at.. how many 5 year olds do you know that are profesional race car drivers? cos thats the sort of skill you need to play... another one was "Ferrari F355" 170MPH down the straights was all well and good.. but, to navigate the corners.. u had to be going around 4 or 5 mph, even on the realy wide ones, or you would just overshoot the corner.

have developers lost the real goal of gameplay by overloading us with near photorealistic graphics?

what do you think about the video games of today?
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Old 2nd September 2003, 15:47   #2
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I believe the same. Developers are out to make the latest graphical enhancement, and seem to leave the gameplay factor out until the end. We (the gameplaying public) don't help it though, by begging and pleading for the next gen games that come out. If we started to put gameplay ahead of graphics, then we might see a change.
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Old 2nd September 2003, 15:49   #3
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This makes interesting related reading...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3189537.stm
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Old 2nd September 2003, 16:19   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bizzy D.
games like "gran turismo" is what im talking about... it isnt a game anymore... its just the developers making very good renders of cars... they are losing the gameplay factor.
I agree on the whole point of improving gameplay over graphics (I remember talking about this when the N64 first came out), though I'd say that GT has both very good gameplay and graphics. As for its difficultly - it's a simulator, based around real physics.

There will always be some game developers that try to stretch the graphical capabilities of next gen consoles to their limits.

Last edited by Niffle; 2nd September 2003 at 18:42.
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Old 2nd September 2003, 16:20   #5
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Look, I want my games to be playable, but if I can easily beat anything on the road and not be able to better myself in a game, i'm not going to play it much and i'm not going to like it much. If the game requires you to actually brake prior to some corners (a novelty introduced in 1999 i think), I think that's a good thing. Now, along with good graphics comes more power to the other stuff. Like the physics engine. What I really miss is the /true/ driving simulator. Where you can't hit a wall at 60 mph and continiue driving, where you can't drive 120mph off the road in a lotus, and where the car looks and feels exactly the same throughout the game, no damage, no f*cked up steering, no blown tires, no shot suspension, no killed gearbox and fried clutch.

Yes, I want a game where I can put *my* car in and it will handle, perform, and crash, like *my* car. I want to see it understeer. Heavily. I want to wait the 30 minutes it takes for it to achieve anything called speed. I want it to pull slightly to the right, and brake like an idiot.

The looks follow enhancements in function. Unfortunately, I can't say nfs6 was a step in a positive direction (any game where cops in helicopters throw exploding barrels of chemical waste onto the road in order to stop a lambo is totally full of sh*t), but still. All aspects move towards the better.
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Old 2nd September 2003, 16:52   #6
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yeah games are not as good as they were .......
they only look good but have little to no playability.
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Old 2nd September 2003, 17:27   #7
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people say that games are becoming more superficial, and less fun, but that's not true. "GTA: Vice City" - it's as fun as any game before it, it's not like we're losing playable games. there's always been games that sacrificed playability for graphics. hell, i had ones for my spectrum which did the very same. they're just shit games. the fact that games are now approaching photorealism just draws more attention to games which do this, and fuels arguments like this.

games aren't going downhill. good developers will develop good games with great visuals - there doesn't have to be a sacrifice.

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Old 2nd September 2003, 18:39   #8
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GT isnt targeted at 5 year olds....its targeted at people who want a "driving simulator"

slowing down to 30 mph for a turn is the type of thing people want in a simulator...they dont want to jump a ramp at 200mph.

damage to cars will also never happen in a simulator like GT...a car company like toyota isnt gonna want a realistic portrayal of a collision in a toyota....a matter of fact polyphony wanted to have damage in gt4 but car companies refused to let them.

when making a point about how gameplay standards have lowered and then naming gran turismo in the same sentence really makes you guys look like those people who think every game should be handcrafted to your own specifications.

....but you guys are right about how most games suck these days....but its not just as cut and dry as saying "they only care about graphics"
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Old 2nd September 2003, 21:13   #9
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I believe the only person who mentioned gran turismo is the first post
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Old 2nd September 2003, 21:58   #10
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I played this one arcade driving simulator with a clutch and shifter. Soso graphics and it was really hard. Partly because I had no real sense of speed and partly I couldn't see the hood/dash to help me with distance. I would be going 120 and all of a sudden the wall in 2 miles in front of me was behind me....

Anyway. Rally Sport Challenge. Great Graphics, Arcadey Great Gameplay.

I just think games are getting better and better. The games that suck people hear about and dont buy. The games that have both graphics and gameplay people go out and buy.

Too bad that good marketing can make a bad game sell millions (enter the matrix)

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Old 2nd September 2003, 22:07   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by xenosomething
GT isnt targeted at 5 year olds....its targeted at people who want a "driving simulator"

slowing down to 30 mph for a turn is the type of thing people want in a simulator...they dont want to jump a ramp at 200mph.
True, the Gran Turismo series had a target audience of car enthusiasts who were also into racing video games that featured realistic physics and lisenced cars, a.k.a. a "simulation racer"...An alternitive to arcade-styled racer games. A car enthusiast can be at any age, but I wouldn't say a 5 year-old would be interested in it as much as the higher-but-still-lower age of 13...

I wouldn't believe that "photorealistic" is what could be used to label GT. Sure, the upcoming GT4 has more lushious enviroments and an updated game engine for better visuals on a car's detail. But that's not to say this is new to GT in the first place. GT3 is/already has been a best seller for the PS2, and graphic-wise, what's gonna be in GT4 will be the more polished version of GT3 with more cars, tracks, and more realistic gameplay. This time around, the game developers have taken the time to drive the cars around and try to differentate the handeling characteristics from one car to another. With a new wide number of cars, handeling characteristics will be easier to sort out once you switch from driving from a '69 Camaro to an '02 Corvette Z06 to an '02 Pagani Zonda to an F1 car. Although there already were differences between the cars in GT3 (I.E. I noticed that driving a stock R-34 Skyline GT-R with traction control and steering assistance led to serious changes between oversteer and understeer with throttle input on low-speed corners, whereas the same corner with the same help of TCS and ASA on a Corvette Z06 led to a more constant stand around the corner), they still felt too much the same in general. Lancer Evo VII felt like it didn't have the same quick steering reflexes as in real life, Viper GTS was a heavy understeer king when in real life it pulls an easy 1.0g in lateral handeling. It just wasn't "all there"...

Hopefully, GT4 will be better a game than it's already sucessful sucessor GT3. But that's the problem...Even though it has good graphics, that wasn't the entire point of the game. Sure, "realistic graphics" should go with "simulation", but "simulation" also means "realism", which also means it's gameplay in general. People aren't taking the time to judge a game mainly on it's gameplay and excitement and not on graphics alone. It's complicated to get the setup right for the suspension of a car to get it to reach it's maximum cornering abilities, or change the gear ratios to get the best of maximum acceleration and top speed, but this is still a simulation game as it's being pointed out over and over again. This is the kind of game you buy to play and mess around with because you would never be able to do it in real life. If it's that un-interesting of a game, why are you bothering to play it in the first place? It's not like a die-hard RPG gamer being made to play a shooter game; No one's really forcing you...

Besides, (While still on the topic of racing games), you're looking too much at the big titles. Take Mario Kart: Double Dash!! for example. Graphics aren't mind-boggling (Almost looks like 64-bit, but with smoother textures), but gameplay still sure is there. Nope, no lisenced cars, no realism here. Just pure fun with some of your favorite Mario characters, as you race around tracks and try to use power-ups to get to the lead or turtle shells to slow an opponent down. Childish? No...If I wern't so anti-Nintendo and I wanted a fun game to play, I'd probably give this game a look, even if I were 12 or 42...

A very close Japanese friend I knew a while ago once said to me "Watashi no koto wo oboeta, onegai shimasu...Yakusoku?"

I forgot his name though...
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Old 2nd September 2003, 22:19   #12
Viper007Bond
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I don't like playing super realistic games myself. Take that one first person shooter made by the army. It's just too realistic for me. I love realism graphics, but I still want the gameplay to be a game. I don't want to fight a real war, I just want to have fun.

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Old 2nd September 2003, 23:35   #13
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I love racing simulations! One of my favorites are Ferrari 355 Challenge for PS1. It's so much fun to play and it's challenging as well, because you have to shift correctly ahile trying to overtake, turn, and win. You can't make one mistake or you lose!
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Old 3rd September 2003, 01:36   #14
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I've got a few racing games... I've got Gran Turismo 2 for my Playstation (yes, this system was given to me, otherwise I wouldn't have it), and I have World Driver Championship, Rush 2, and Mario Kart 64 for my Nintendo 64. Rush 2 and Mario Kart 64 are on one end of the spectrum (the fun-as-hell-but-also-unrealistic-as-hell end) while World Driver Championship and Gran Turismo 2 are at the other end of the spectrum (the lots-more-realistic-but-still-kinda-fun end). The games give different types of gameplay, but they're all fun in their own rights.
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Old 3rd September 2003, 22:01   #15
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Neverwinter Nights is an RPG for the PC.
REALLY, real
BUT, when you get past the graphics, the gameplay is awkward
I am not practicing for a magical assualt or whatever.
I am playing a game.
I got no problem with good graphics, but if that's ALL the game has, it's not worth the box it came in.
What feeds it is people who buy shit like that JUST for the looks.
They are what's called the mass market.
Its not good business sense to make a game that looks good AND is playably good.

DEATH TO BILL GATES!!!!!!!!!
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Old 4th September 2003, 00:50   #16
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Americas army. You get one life and if you die right away you dont come back for like 20 minutes cuz everyone else is camping.

Its mechanics are good though just the dying part. Grpahics and stuff are too much for this computer though

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Old 4th September 2003, 01:04   #17
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TacOps 2.23
one life per round
set time limit
round ends when the enemy team is dead
not the BEST graphics
but its all multiplayer
and you're poor pc could prob play it
but i can't find the 2.23 version
any help would be loved
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Old 4th September 2003, 03:51   #18
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nintendo's pretty good bout leaving "mine is bigger than yours" alone and focusing on game play and i appretiate that. (this statement hereby placed to provide contrast to the notion that all games no longer adhear to the viceral elements of playing a game.) however, id be a hypocryte (sp??) if i were to say id not be interested in a game just because its realistic. ::: my 3 yr old nephew "grease" (tenative title) beats me with some ease at gran turismo.

*omits head falls off for no reason.

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Old 9th September 2003, 19:42   #19
Bizzeh
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i want games to be playable.. i buy a game to play it.. not watch it go by me.
ie, i payed for final fantasy 7 and 8 because they have many many many hours of gameplay, i payed for final fantasy the spirits within to watch a movie, there is a difference between the movie and the game
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Old 10th September 2003, 18:21   #20
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Actualy, I have to admit, I have edited my GTA VC to make it more realistic, the cars arnt as fast for the most part and the sports cars are faster, but can turn on... ..well, lets not go into what is needed to turn them shall we.

With my edit the Admiral is your best bet for a all rounder, it has taught handling, excelent brakes, and decent speed.

The Deluxo becomes obseenly fast, but will not turn, pluss if you hit anything, your dead.

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