Old 7th May 2003, 21:14   #1
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AOL Headline: Child Abuse Caught On Tape

Latebreaking news here in Wisconsin:

A west-Milwaukee busdriver was caught on tape "verbally abusing" a kid with down's syndrome. He also admitted to slapping the kid in the face. Now the entire nation seems to want this guy's head on a stick. My response to this is: WHAT THE FUCK? We have seriously gone downhill as a society. He slapped the kid. He did not slap him with his penis. He didn't hit him with a stick, or other inanimate object. So what's the problem? I was fortunate to grow up with parents that weren't afraid to physically discipline me. If I did something bad, and by bad I mean getting caught drawing on the walls, breaking something, or just blatantly lying, I'd get smacked upside the head. I wasn't ABUSED. I'm not a violent person, I don't have recurring hatred toward my parents, I just realized that I was a fuckhead. It got the point across. Not anymore. So the poor boy has down's syndrome. I'm sorry, but to me, that just makes it more like having to discipline a dog than a child. A calm, soothing voice is probably not going to do much for a disabled kid throwing a tantrum. Mind you, I don't have down's syndrome, so I wouldn't really know.

Of course, his whiney, disgusting, overly-PC parents are shown on TV in repetition, playing the same five second soundclip of the busdriver screaming at this kid. What they seem to have omitted is the other half hour or so of the kid screaming his head off for the entire bus trip. I've been on the schoolbus with retarted kids. It fucking sucks. Even when they've got some old lady to sit there and try and keep them under control, I wouldn't want to be riding that bus to school. So sue me. And this guy was winging it. No old lady.

What I'm saying is, had I been the busdriver, I probably would have done the same thing. His job is to drive the schoolbus, not watch the class tard. If you were subjected to 15-45 minutes daily of a screaming, hitting, obsessive little brat, you would want to "slap the hell" out of them as well. NOT HIS RESPONSIBILITY. It says in both his and other student's statements that he had to pull the bus over several times A TRIP to deal with the kid. That in itself is too much. His function, again, is to drive the damn bus. I had a busdriver that screamed at us all the time. You know what? She was one of the best drivers in the company. We all thought so. But if she was a weak-willed, whiney, lovey-dovey pussy, we would have walked all over her. It's the first rule of groups of children. So what is the fucking problem? Oh, the kid's retarded, or has Down's, or what the hell ever. It's not an excuse. Put him in a private school, drive him to school yourself, or just deal with it. I was so pissed when they announced that retarted kids would be required to sit in regular classes with other students. It's not fair. Not for the teacher who now has the added task of watching this "special student", not for the students who have to be subjected to their drooling, moaning, spastic behaviors, and not for the LD themself.

It can be argued that although retarded, they are still people. Bullshit. If you require so much attention that it subtracts from that given to others in a school environment, then you are not a person. You're a distraction. Imagine having to manuver a massive bus through crowded city streets, all the while wondering if the retard is trying to eat their seatbelt. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't want to be on that bus. And I certainly don't want my tax dollars to go for that. Stick them on a short bus where they belong, and we wouldn't have to have this kind of a problem. But leave the damn busdriver alone. Thanks.
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Old 7th May 2003, 22:00   #2
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The poor kid with down's syndrom have the same rights
as "normal" kids,
of course... with special care.
for the driver. No one *diserve* that.


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Old 7th May 2003, 22:46   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lobo Lunar
The poor kid with down's syndrom have the same rights
as "normal" kids,
of course... with special care.
for the driver. No one *diserve* that.
Kids like that need a special school or something. They don't need abuse. I honestly hope he's fired. You shouldn't be hitting kids ever as far as my philosphy goes, parent or not.

They say if you play a Microsoft CD backwards you hear satanic messages. That's nothing, if you play it forwards it installs Windows.
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Old 7th May 2003, 23:57   #4
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I'm with you killswitch1968


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Old 8th May 2003, 02:01   #5
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HIT THE DAMN KIDS! Teach them a lesson. If I fuckup I get hit! You must be cold and hard on a kid to teach them something.
Why was that kid on that bus if they had that kind of problems? They have short busses to help them. They can never be a sucsesful part of society, so why try? I know its not "right" but it is the way it is set up, they just could never be, sue me.

I can understand as to why he would want to if he was acting like a disobediant person (no one goes and protest prisoners rights if they get beat for being disobediant). Just say, oops my bad, Im sorry. and be done with it?
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Old 8th May 2003, 02:19   #6
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Quote:
Kids like that need a special school or something. They don't need abuse. I honestly hope he's fired. You shouldn't be hitting kids ever as far as my philosphy goes, parent or not.
You're right, they do need a special school. But calling a slap to the face abuse is like spitting on a shirt and then calling it drenched. What are you supposed to do with a kid who refuses to heed every single verbal warning? Continue stopping the bus every five minutes to ask them politely to cease gnawing the arm of the kid next to them? That man should not be fired. He should be promoted. Seriously. It's gross intolerance like "You shouldn't be hitting kid's anyway." that has made the USA a country of fat, whiney, pampered, pathetic ingrates. Holding a screaming brat by the hand and politely trying to calm them only encourages the negative behavour more.

Laz9999 had a beautiful beautiful point in simply saying "Why was that kid on that bus if they had that kind of problems?" He shouldn't have been there in the first place. If anybody should be fired, it should be whoever felt it was necessicary for that kid to be placed on the normal bus just so he wasn't singled out.
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Old 8th May 2003, 08:03   #7
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kids with down syndrome especially severe cases are just a moving body. they dont know right from wrong,and they dont know how to properly act. if my kid was disabled and he was hit by a bus driver,no, i take that back..if my kid was hit by a bus driver i would sue the school and i would make sure he never worked with kids again! he knew what his job held,he knew the pressure! yet he verbally and physically abused a disabled child. i wonder how many others he's abused and does he act like that to his own children?

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Old 8th May 2003, 11:17   #8
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The question is, was this bus driver properly trained for dealing with retarded children. If not, I don't see how he is to blame.
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Old 8th May 2003, 11:39   #9
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Here's CNN regarding the incident. And the Star Tribune on the same subject.

Other's are starting to pop up, they're all pretty much the same story.

Does stuff like this happen often?

school-bus.org They're a dedicated bunch alright (how much time went in to that website)

Sorry I couldn't find any statistics on this, here's some safety hints for those of you who are being abuse on the school bus. (okay I admit that's in badtaste, but it's alright, it's not your fault what that mean old dirty bus-driver did).


ohh! what's my view on this. from what I've read something is wrong in this picture, the kid was strapped in to the seat so I can't imagine him causing a distraction to the driver (physically), the screaming may have been unbearable, but we all have to deal with screaming kids (we've all looked at disgust at the parent who throught it be a good idea to take their whining kid to the movies, haven't we) ,you put up with it (or complain to the manager).

If the kid was often a menace on the bus then the driver should have notified the school and his boss. If it was a regular problem there are ways to get around the problem without abusing the kid.

In short the guy shouldn't have done what he did.

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Old 23rd July 2007, 03:43   #10
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I am disgusted by some of the responses here to this story. Cold-hearted is an understatement!

My severely retarded child with Down syndrome isn't just a "moving body" - he's a human being with a personality!

He screams a lot, and no, no one can "discipline" him out of it - but SO WHAT! Being an adult means controlling yourself, accepting differences, and having compassion.

You people are very immature, and, I must say, ignorant.

My stomach felt sick when I read some of your responses. My child is vulnerable because of people like you. I wouldn't trust you to save my son if he needed you. How does that make you feel? It should make you feel like a loser!

Just wait - when some of you grow up, you may just find yourselves with a special-needs child. You will love your child deeply, I guarantee, and you will do all that you can to protect him/her from the kind of jerks you have shown yourselves to be at this time in your lives.

Is this how young people are today - totally into themselves without concern for those less fortunate? You frighten me, you really do.
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Old 23rd July 2007, 04:48   #11
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Momo: Tip for the future: putting others down is not the most effective way to persuade. Give them your opinion, a reason and/or an example, and a conclusion.

Children with down syndrom definately don't need ANY kind of abuse. They may not learn things as quick as others but they definately learn from others' actions very quick. These children need special attention and need to be taught good obedience. I know a family that failed to do this, and even though their child only has mild down syndrom, it really showed. He thinks it's okay to lie, swear (at the teacher, then wonders why he gets suspended all the time), punch others, watch porn in front of his parents (he is 13 years old), steal etc... Everyone hates him because he is so rude to others. They cannot get away with these things or they will think it is okay. They cannot be taght these things or they will think it is okay. Firm, non physical and consistent punishment is the way to do it.
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Old 23rd July 2007, 06:25   #12
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Umm...

Why in the hell did someone dig up a 4 year old thread?
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Old 23rd July 2007, 11:40   #13
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/slaps momofdowns for that.
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Old 23rd July 2007, 16:54   #14
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Wow, I didn't even notice how old this thred is.

Why would anyone not only dig up an old thread, but yell at people who will most likely never be seen again? And how was this 4 year old thread the place momo posted FIRST? It takes an uber noob to screw up like that.
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Old 24th July 2007, 15:21   #15
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I dug up this thread while researching child abuse. Is it my fault that it is still available for posting? And the topic will never be irrelevant.

But I see I am wasting my time here, as you people seem to be very young. Some of the responses to this story should outrage you as much as it did me, and the age of the thread shouldn't be your first concern.

Have a nice life, kiddies.
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Old 24th July 2007, 15:50   #16
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if you had a kid with down syndrome, why the hell would you send them to a normal school on a bus?

the parents seem the more retarded ones to me.

I can see this coming miles away. I could almost guarantee something like this would happen.

shouldn't they be schooled by teachers who are trained to school these children? not just standard teaching staff.

shouldn't they get the opportunity to hang with people who are just like them?

just a question...
if you had an extra chromosome are you still technically human?

or are you more like an xman?
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Old 24th July 2007, 16:20   #17
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My son is sent on a wheelchair bus and has special ed. teachers. He isn't in a regular classroom.

Severely retarded kids are not placed with "normal" children, at least not in my area.

Parents don't get a choice about transportation, unless they want to drive their child to school themselves.

I'd never put my child on a regular schoolbus because there are too many mean-spirited people in the world.
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Old 24th July 2007, 16:35   #18
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its not that they are mean, its that they don't know how to deal with such a situation.

for you maybe its normal, I think its amazing that people have the patience to deal with unfortunate people. I don't think I could handle it unless I was forced into such a situation.

I can't even handle kids with attention deficit disorder, they make me go berserk.
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Old 24th July 2007, 17:42   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rocker
just a question...
if you had an extra chromosome are you still technically human?

or are you more like an xman?
Oh, that's smart!

Yeah, I agree. It (sometimes) takes a hellova lot of patients to work with the mentally chalenged. It is best to send them off to school with people who are trained to deal with them. I wouldn't blame the child, nor the bus driver (because they can sometimes be a real hassle), but the parents should have seen it coming. The bus driver wasn't yelling at a mentally challenged child, he was yelling at a missbehaving child. I have been put in this situation before, and it sucks ass through a straw. It's ALWAYS the parents' faults, too.
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Old 24th July 2007, 18:42   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by momofdowns


But I see I am wasting my time here, as you people seem to be very young. Some of the responses to this story should outrage you as much as it did me, and the age of the thread shouldn't be your first concern.

Have a nice life, kiddies.
Such gross generalizations.

It seems that your opinion is king and no one else can ever refute that.

But if you are leaving then good bye ignorant old lady.
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Old 24th July 2007, 18:58   #21
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FYI: Kids with downs are NOT severely handicapped.
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Old 24th July 2007, 23:20   #22
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My God, who the HELL is ignorant here?

Not me.

I live the life.

And yes, people with Down syndrome CAN be severely retarded. They range from near-normal IQ to profoundly retarded.

My son and the boy in the "so old it's not worth discussing" article from 2003 are severely retarded. And screaming comes with the territory. He's not being BAD when he screams - it's a happy scream. Too bad some people don't see it that way and would like to punish him for it. How cruel and stupid!

Oh, and ha, ha - I laughed so hard about "not being technically human" because of an extra chromosome. Do you all enjoy punching people in the gut just for fun? Because that's what you're doing.

By the way, how old are you people, anyway?

Well, thanks a lot for your empathy and kindness towards me, everyone. It does my heart good to think there are so many nice people out there who have tons of compassion for the mentally retarded and their families.



Now go back to discussing whatever it is you discuss and I'll get on with the business of taking care of my son.
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Old 24th July 2007, 23:29   #23
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Oh, and about gross generalizations - J. Melo thinks that it's ALWAYS the parents' fault when a mentally challenged person misbehaves, and El Chevelle says that kids with Down's are NOT severely handicapped. If those aren't gross generalizations, I don't know what are.

Now I will leave this forum and go cry.
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Old 25th July 2007, 00:32   #24
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Thank you.
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Old 25th July 2007, 01:40   #25
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It's not always the parents fault when a mentally disabled child missbehaves, but it's always the parents fault when the child is always misbehaving. There is a huge difference! Also, I'm very angry at how ignorant YOU are! Why can't anybody have a damn opinion besides your own?

When rocker said that people with downs aren't technically human, he WAS NOT "punching" anybody! It was just something to think about. If you think we don't have compassion for the mentally retarded, REREAD EVERYONE'S POSTS.

You are only thinking from ONE point of view, and you think any opinion that is not yours is completely opposite. I agree, there are cold hearted people out there, but that doesn't mean that all of us are. Who are you, Rosie O'Donnell? PLEASE consider others' opinions before you stomp all over them.

Side note: In my art class, there was a group af handicapped students. Their special ed helpers helped them make wonderful art pieces (it was a crafting class). Everybody thought they were great to have around. People would complement them on their shoes or leave a dollar on the ground for them to find, just so these children can feel good. If that's not compassion, what is?

Oh, you asked my age, too. I'm 15, but that doesn't mean that I'm not smart, or I'm immature or unexperienced.

ALL I was saying was that, yes, it is wrong to verbally/phisically abuse the mentally retarded, but maybe that is not the reason the bus driver yelled at the poor kid. Do you think someone would just say "EWW, your retarded. Get off my bus!" out of the blue? No. Nobody does that. There is ALWAYS other reasons you need to consider.

Furthermore, just because people got mad at you for digging up an old topic, doesn't mean we think it's not worth talking about. It's been discussed about a long time ago, and if you want to talk to most of the people who were discussing this topic, they're long gone. The don't come to the forums anymore. Just click on the little profile button under their post and look at the date of their last post. Laz's last post was in 2004. You won't get to speak to him.

People are all different. Some things that some find funny, others don't. Some people are serious, others are not. Some people may be rude, but I can assure you (mostly) all of us at Winamp forums are not. You may not be a bad person yourself. I know you are just angry at some posts in this topic, but it is no need to go berserk. Some people just won't change their mind about something, and you have to accept that. I can be friendly myself, but if I wasn't to friendly in this thread, it's beacuse I may have been a little angry.

There. I hope this cleared it up a bit. I'm sorry if anybody hurt you, but I can asure you they did not mean it (or they did, but as a light joke; but don't take it seriously). Anyways happy posting
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Old 25th July 2007, 05:52   #26
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I am on the fence here.

Hitting my kid if you aren't me? I want your ass in a sling. Me slapping my kid if he is slapping my Wife or someone else and just won't stop? Yeah, he might get a smack. I wish the world was perfect and no kid ever had to be smacked...it's not, so fucking deal with it.

Do I think the kid in this story needs special care? Duh. Do I think he shouldn't mess up the other kid's lives? Yes.

In short it's hard to say if the guy should be fired. He probably will be since the media is involved no matter how stupid it was or not matter how justified he may or may not have been to do what he did.

The parent's have a right to be pissed because bus driver, teacher...I don't care, don't smack my kid. You call me, and I will spank my kid's ass if needed. You don't touch my kid.

If the kid was trying to stab someone or hitting people or something way extreme, get him the hell off the bus...

You can't say a retarded person is like a dog, that's just not right. You need to recognize they are different and still human beings, but if you have a kid with special needs, GET HIM THE SPECIAL CARE HE OR SHE NEEDS or don't wine like a bitch if someone is mean to your kid who has downs.

God what a mess.
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Old 25th July 2007, 06:33   #27
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Yes, verbal abuse *may* be justifyable, but not slaping the poor kid in the face. Thats the line.
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Old 25th July 2007, 14:48   #28
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J. Melo, I appreciate you taking the time to write your response to me.

My question for you is - isn't this a forum where we can speak our minds? That's all I did - I read a story that upset me, an old story, admittedly, but I responded because it's a subject that affects me, and I was angry at some of the old posters, especially.

So, what did I get in response after I posted? Name-calling and a "slap". You know, just in general I'm a jerk because I brought up an old post. As if the fact it was old was important. Can't you see that I would get upset about such a thing?

And if I didn't get punched, it sure as hell felt like I did. I was physically ill and crying because of the responses I got here.

The story itself upset me because I believe that the child started to misbehave on the bus because the bus driver couldn't handle a "different" child and went way overboard in dealing with him. I read more about the story on different sites and the boy with Down's called the bus driver by the name "No Brian". In other words, the bus driver must have been getting into the kid's face, threatening and slapping him very frequently. Jacob, the boy, spit at the bus driver at one point, but what else could he do? He was strapped in his seat unable to do anything against a man who, in my opinion, was out of control. Jacob's "misbehavior" was a response to being in a defenseless situation. The more he acted up, the more the bus driver threatened him. And this went on for a long time - several months. The CHILD was being abused, not the bus driver. The bus driver had a choice to walk away; Jacob didn't.

What I got from SOME of the old posts on this site was defense of the bus driver. My question is, why would people defend a bully? A guy who couldn't control himself? That's what upset me and why I ranted.

By the way, I don't believe verbal abuse is ever justified. If you can't stand your job, get off the bus.

I'm not saying you can't have an opinion - this is supposed to be a back-and-forth exchange of ideas.

I disagree with some of the posts and I said so. You disagreed with me, and said so.

I DO give my son the care he needs. But there's always the risk that somehow, somewhere he will be abused by people who think he's less than human. I can't sleep at night with fear of it. Only if you are in my situation do I think you can fully understand.

Also, J. Melo, I read your post about the 13-year-old who's a real pain. You're right, the parents indulged him too much because they felt sorry for him. He's only mildly retarded, though. Kids like my son and the boy on the bus, who are more severely retarded, will engage in behaviors that others might find objectionable but over which they have no control or understanding. So, yes, the boy in your experience is being bad, but the boy in the bus was not being bad, just reacting to a guy who didn't know how to handle him.

And thanks for the side note - one of the few things about this painful post that made me smile.
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Old 25th July 2007, 15:20   #29
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Upon further reading about this case, the bus driver pled guilty to child abuse, felt "very bad" for treating Jacob the way he did, and wished he could go back in time and do things differently.
On a tape recording from Jacob's backpack the bus driver was seriously pissed about Jacob making bus sounds (vroom, vroom) and shouting. Wow, he was being SO BAD.
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Old 25th July 2007, 16:09   #30
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[highjack attempt because I want this thread to end]

I think it'd be awesome to be arch angel or wolverine.

[/highjack attempt because I want this thread to end]
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Old 25th July 2007, 16:21   #31
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I'd want to be batman.
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Old 25th July 2007, 16:34   #32
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Rocker, you're f-ing rude. GOODBYE.
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Old 25th July 2007, 17:49   #33
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I was trying to save you some time.

you appear to be overly stressing out over this ancient thread.

bye.
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Old 25th July 2007, 19:06   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by tuckerm
I'd want to be batman.
You can be, Batman had no special powers, he was just a regular guy, pump some iron, learn some moves, get a snazzy costume and you are good to go.
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Old 25th July 2007, 19:09   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by momofdowns
Rocker, you're f-ing rude. GOODBYE.
EMO!! You've said goodbye for like 10 times already. Leave.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Jones
You can be, Batman had no special powers, he was just a regular guy, pump some iron, learn some moves, get a snazzy costume and you are good to go.
I'm already pretty good
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Old 25th July 2007, 19:16   #36
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Nah. Tuckerm can be the joker.
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Old 25th July 2007, 19:35   #37
Mr Jones
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I don't give a fuck who he is as long as he's not catwoman, I do NOT need that fantasy spoiling thankyouveryverymuch


/Widdy needs to be Cat woman for sure....mmmmmm tight PVC suits......
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Old 25th July 2007, 21:27   #38
watadoo
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you can be wonderwoman, jones.


"Which is worse, ignorance or indifference?"

"I don't know, and I don't care."
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Old 25th July 2007, 22:35   #39
tuckerm
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Quote:
Originally posted by J.Melo
Nah. Tuckerm can be the joker.
OMG HA HA HA LOLZ ROFLS LMAO
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Old 30th July 2007, 23:46   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by momofdowns
Upon further reading about this case, the bus driver pled guilty to child abuse, felt "very bad" for treating Jacob the way he did, and wished he could go back in time and do things differently.
On a tape recording from Jacob's backpack the bus driver was seriously pissed about Jacob making bus sounds (vroom, vroom) and shouting. Wow, he was being SO BAD.
Downs Syndrome people are usually quite capable of repressing their tendency to chant and yell. If you taught them that it pisses people off. How safe is it to drive when you have someone yelling and chanting at FULL VOLUME (and they do!) in your ear? I used to work in a retail store a block from a halfway house. They'd start that chanting/yelling shit and I'd kick them out. Guess what? When they came back they didn't chant and yell....

Here we have a school bus driver that went a "little" too far. We also probably have Jacob fully understanding that he was misbehaving.

Cops? We must be nuts. No autopsy. No foul.

If Jacob can't conduct himself safely on a bus, he shouldn't ride a bus. Frankly, if the bus driver can get the little shits to school without killing any of the little rugrats, he deserves a medal. Add the handicapped kid screaming at the top of his lungs! I could see losing it. But he didn't lose it bad enough to actually hurt the kid.... so not only not an autopsy.... not even a dent...

Quote:
On a tape recording from Jacob's backpack
Interesting that Jacob happened to have a tape recorder on?

Last edited by rockouthippie; 31st July 2007 at 00:38.
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