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Old 2nd December 2013, 08:14   #81
micronicos
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So why has the announcement been taken down?

So why has the announcement been taken down, there seems now to be no reference to this impending closure anywhere on the official site Winamp.com

Regards,
Nico Morrison
Radio Flower Raj
http://radio.theflowerraj.org/

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Old 2nd December 2013, 08:21   #82
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The announcement is still there. Click on that big orange download link.

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Old 2nd December 2013, 09:17   #83
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Y're right...

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Nico Morrison
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Old 2nd December 2013, 16:04   #84
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Forgive me for the simple question, but if Shoutcast goes away, does this mean that all my stations I have bookmarked will no longer work?
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Old 2nd December 2013, 16:07   #85
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DrO is indicating that SHOUTcast is currently not apart of this closure. So for now it is safe.
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Old 2nd December 2013, 19:41   #86
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Well.. so much for the "Ey DrO let me know if there is something in this list that is not correct -and you know and can tell- so people could take it as a reference and not ask about every 2 seconds"...
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Old 2nd December 2013, 20:16   #87
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i've a load of things to be doing than keeping my eye on these sorts of threads. and it's never been said that SHOUTcast is part of things, the notice has _only_ been about Winamp and its related services.
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Old 2nd December 2013, 21:24   #88
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Tks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
i've a load of things to be doing than keeping my eye on these sorts of threads. and it's never been said that SHOUTcast is part of things, the notice has _only_ been about Winamp and its related services.
Please accept my apologies, you must be very busy in such a time of change
Thank you for all your great work.

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Nico Morrison
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Old 2nd December 2013, 21:31   #89
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@ Jay and DrO:

Thanks for the info.
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Old 3rd December 2013, 06:24   #90
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Thanks for the clarification, DrO. Good to know that SHOUTcast is safe.
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Old 3rd December 2013, 13:06   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
i've a load of things to be doing than keeping my eye on these sorts of threads. and it's never been said that SHOUTcast is part of things, the notice has _only_ been about Winamp and its related services.
Yeh well... I was trying to help.. Anyway, I thought Shoutcast was / is a Winamp related service.. there were some doubts at first (even yours I think, could trace the comment but it doesn´t matter actually..). But if you say is safe.. it´s safe.. could update the first post, but probably it would be best to leave some doubts behind since nothing is certain, right?
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Old 6th December 2013, 17:21   #92
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First post updated..
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Old 7th December 2013, 17:56   #93
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Any (good) news from AOL ?
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Old 11th December 2013, 00:16   #94
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I've not had any further response to my inquiries at AOL. Strange.
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Old 11th December 2013, 00:36   #95
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No!
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Old 11th December 2013, 16:15   #96
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We don't want to give up yet. But I think, AOL will not give responses generally. That doesn't mean, that the end will really come...

In Post #1 I am reading these words again and again:
"What is lost - Online services (like Now playing, MoodAgent, etc). The good thing about it is that now people can use / create custom services to use with it, like Broser Pro or Reader already does in cPro skins."
"The good news (yes! there are!) - # People can now create Online services"

Does that mean, that I can create an own website and an own "online service"? This sounds very good. I have also seen the screenshots in this thread... http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=373992 and something with "Winamp-Javascript-API".

I don't know yet, if websites on each website-server would work and if also platform-profiles would work. Especially the music-video-platforms and the social networks have changed the profile-layouts so many times (and maybe also the API).

I have already planned an own website (for free) without making online-banking, because I want to build in the Mixlr-Player of my Mixlr-Radio, but I want to have my website also for some other reasons.

This question will be very interesting also for the other Winamp-User. I will keep my eyes open for the following days, before I will focus again on myself as an artist in the upcoming year.

I still wish You all the best and I wish, that Winamp can survive...

Sabine Klare Aka Sternenmaschinebine
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AMBIENT... AMBIENT music forever...
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Old 13th December 2013, 13:18   #97
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I am only an artist and not a developer, but I have found this link:
http://wiki.winamp.com/wiki/Online_S...avaScript_APIs

I have created many new .odt-files with Apache Open Office, in case also this website will disappear soon:
http://wiki.winamp.com/wiki/Main_Page

But I hope, that a replacement website with tutorials will be created or that at least new .pdf-files with download-links on the new board will be available soon, but then the download-links should really work there also for the non-members, because not everybody wants to register just to get the files. I think, that the people will register, because they want to discuss.

The original help-pages will disappear soon, but in the Bento Browser You can create a new subfolder, and then You can add the replacement forum as favourite there. I myself did that with my Last.fm-User-Profile, from where I can go directly to my other profiles.

PS, the very new builds from today are already as installer-setups on my harddrive...

Sabine Klare Aka Sternenmaschinebine
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Old 16th December 2013, 18:55   #98
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Oh my god, I just installed Milkdrop 2. Oh man, this is so beautiful, I can't stop watching at it in full hd :X. I didn't use Milkdrop since 2000 (or something like that)... and it evolved so nice .
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Old 16th December 2013, 21:16   #99
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Milkdrop 2 was one of the first beautiful features, which I had discovered, after I had installed Winamp the first time (22nd July 2010). With many thanks to "Stereomix" I can enjoy also "website music" via "linein://" in Full HD...

@ lordsilver, this link is for You... https://plus.google.com/photos/+SabineKlare/albums And in my Last.fm-Blogs I have some other very interesting links. We can see us in the old forums tomorrow. I have to sleep a little bit now, although artists don't sleep...

Sabine Klare Aka Sternenmaschinebine
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Old 16th December 2013, 22:32   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabine Klare View Post
I am only an artist and not a developer, but I have found this link:
http://wiki.winamp.com/wiki/Online_S...avaScript_APIs

I have created many new .odt-files with Apache Open Office, in case also this website will disappear soon:
http://wiki.winamp.com/wiki/Main_Page

But I hope, that a replacement website with tutorials will be created or that at least new .pdf-files with download-links on the new board will be available soon, but then the download-links should really work there also for the non-members, because not everybody wants to register just to get the files. I think, that the people will register, because they want to discuss.

The original help-pages will disappear soon, but in the Bento Browser You can create a new subfolder, and then You can add the replacement forum as favourite there. I myself did that with my Last.fm-User-Profile, from where I can go directly to my other profiles.

PS, the very new builds from today are already as installer-setups on my harddrive...
Sabine are you aware of the new forum?
In my sig below...

Cheers, Pete

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Old 17th December 2013, 09:58   #101
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Thank You, Pete.

I am still not sure, if I should be Sabine Klare, Sternenmaschinebine or Sabiine Klare Aka Sternenmaschinebine there. In YouTube and the other music-platforms mostly I am Sternenmaschinebine. I have realized that with the new forum, but which username would You suggest for me in the future?

I'm still going to miss the old site, and I have to fight against my tears right now...

Sabine Klare Aka Sternenmaschinebine
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Old 19th December 2013, 22:36   #102
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AOL Finalizing Talks To Sell Winamp And Shoutcast, No Shutdown Expected On Dec. 20..is this true???

http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/19/winamp-will-never-die/

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Old 19th December 2013, 22:50   #103
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Old 20th December 2013, 02:03   #104
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Well, just let me cry a bit here.

AOL, for the last 20 years, have been buying the best software available, just to shut them down a bit later.

That happened to ICQ (so that MSN, which NEVER worked stably and NEVER implemented ICQ's features, could grow) and Netscape (we were lucky its source was opened just before it was bought, thanks to that we have FireFox and now IE is a useless junk).

Now it's Winamp.

How can a company that wastes so much money not close itself? Maybe we should ask SCO?...

Winamp is the second music player I've discovered just when I started using PC. The first one came in a CD I bought in a magazine, it was named Gamut and sucked lol. And I've been using Winamp non-stop for... 15 years?

It's sad enough to hardly be updated and most plugin devs be gone, must AOL rly stop its development?? How can the best music player ever developed, with a forum of thousands of online visitors, be just stopped?

Sadly, if ICQ and Netscape died, AOL will do the same with Winamp. Why can't they open it then? Imagine how it would grow if plugin devs could work in its source!
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Old 20th December 2013, 02:26   #105
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Oh sh*t, it's 20th dec.
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Old 20th December 2013, 03:27   #106
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That`s great news it true? It`s Dec 19th here still I hope this for real!
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Old 20th December 2013, 04:00   #107
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Saving Winamp and Shoutcast may be prohibitively complex

Excerpted from a longer article:

Radio Survivor has learned that, in fact, AOL fielded a flurry of last-minute offers to purchase these assets after the shut-down announcement. However, serious buyers found out that what’s up for sale is hardly a turn-key operation.
...
We’ve learned that what AOL is willing to sell is not a ready-to-go Winamp division, but just the trademarks and code for Winamp and Shoutcast. The catch is that part of what makes Winamp valuable for many buyers is the ecosystem of third-party plug-ins and skins, the directory of 50,000 stations, and the rich and active user community. Those assets and the databases are not for sale. That’s because the databases are built on a proprietary AOL content management system that the company is not interested in selling or licensing.

AOL is also unwilling to hand over any servers. This caveat certainly would be no problem for a tech giant like Microsoft, but could be another hurdle for a smaller, scrappier group hoping to save the day.

Finally, there is reason to question how valuable it is to have the Winamp and Shoutcast source code, and if it is even feasible to release it as open source. We have learned that there is enough proprietary and licensed code that AOL licenses from other parties that any buyer would immediately be liable for fees on every download. Hence, this is why AOL is cutting off downloads of the applications.

The licensing aspect particularly complicates releasing Winamp as open source, which would require these licenses also be made available under an open source license, an unlikely proposition.

Although there are strong indications that there is a buyer for the Winamp and Shoutcast code and trademarks, we still do not know with any certainty who this buyer is. One would think it would make sense that both AOL and the buyer would want to announce a deal before Friday, letting each company benefit from some positive PR. But contract negotiations don’t always go according to what makes sense to an outside observer, especially while AOL is busy reconsidering the future of its CEO’s pet project, Patch and working on other reorganization efforts.

http://www.radiosurvivor.com/2013/12...ively-complex/
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Old 20th December 2013, 09:08   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjbrown View Post
Hmm...when browsing by Just Added or Recently Modified, I only get listings for 2943 skins and 966 plugins. Where did your additional ones come from?

What about visualizations? Looks like there are 2779 of them. Have you archived those?

Did you save the complete comments (or any comments) for each plugin page? The comments on each plugin/visualization page are paginated, dynamically loaded 5 at a time via JavaScript.
For my part, I have the 2,943 skins, 966 plug-ins, and 2,779 visualizations presently featured on winamp.com (the fact that these continue to be featured @ winamp.com I am taking as a kind of soft endorsement from the staff that all these skins/plugins/visualizations are deemed to be at least kinda sorta compatible with newer versions). I did not grab any of the other skins/plug-ins/visualizations which are still available from download.nullsoft.com/customize/component/ but are no longer featured at winamp.com, as I did do not know if they bear any continued relevance for newer versions and I don't have the time to go through them to find out, though I realize that some of them might have appeal beyond Winamp, such as for other media players which are compatible with .wsz skin files.

I had to rename a few of the files due to conflicting filenames (ex. for visualizations- Colors.exe and COLORS.exe, by two different authors), as I dumped each (skins/plug-ins/visualizations) into a respective directory and then created an SFX of each directory. I made note of any security issues (reported adware, trojans, etc), but did not delete any of the affected plug-ins. Some of the adware is so old that the adware servers (and maybe even the companies) no longer exist. Unfortunately, I did not get the winamp.com descriptions and reviews for any of these skins/plug-ins/visualizations, and likely won't have the time to do so before the Winamp carriage turns into a pumpkin.

I also grabbed winamp5666_full_en-us.exe (build 3516), winamp57_3444_beta_full_all.exe (would need something like RunAsDate or Time Stopper, or would have to defile the purity of the system clock for the beta), Winamp-0.8.1.13.dmg, and Winamp-1.4.15.apk, as well as installWaDetect.exe, even though it will be completely worthless. Besides these, I didn't download any other versions, bundles, or related software that was available.

Last edited by Uatu; 20th December 2013 at 09:32. Reason: HAD TO MOVE 'ZIG'.
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Old 20th December 2013, 13:00   #109
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I just have to say, I've loved Winamp for years just like a lot of you (around 12 years I believe) and I hope that the community stays involved and keeps Winamp alive. Long time member, but mostly lurk, I wanted to thank everyone involved in this fantastic media player. Still my favorite.
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Old 20th December 2013, 17:47   #110
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I only can say that I have had very nice moments using/listening Winamp. I wish we could make an effort to maintain winamp alive.
I appreciate all the evolution and history of winamp, to the coders, the winamp community and all the people that helped to make winamp one of the best media-players-without-that-crap of useless features.
I will use winamp until my computers can!
And my final words is to AOL: Thank you for kill a very good software that you don't know how to use it for make money. Winamp it's a very good product in a very bad company. The next are you, AOL.
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Old 21st December 2013, 23:53   #111
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What AOL say they have paid for in licensing should be taken with a pinch of salt.
e.g. Paying for the full/pro Winamp will unlock the MP3 encoding, supposedly licensed from Fraunhofer and Thomson.
However AOL obviously never use that money for such a thing, as you actually enable the FREE "Lame_enc.dll" which does not use any Fraunhofer or Thomson code.
Neither does any other freeware that uses the same Lame DLL.

For the remaining CoDecs that are actually licensed, I have no idea why the Devs never followed the rest of the planet and it's dog, and opt for the FFmpeg project.

Any and all problem plugins could be left out of a fully free Winamp, leaving the user to buy and add them at their discretion, or install free alternatives.

In the past software authors avoided licence issues in a commercial product, by offering the Licensed plugin as a free DL.
This is how many developers avoided paying for the GIF licence.
Do not include with the base commercial install, offer the freebie plugin as an extra.

Personally I would happily junk the Fraunhofer Winamp MP4/AAC encoder in favour of the superior and award-winning AAC encoder from Nero (again, available for free).

Winamp has a lot of baggage added by corporate-thinkers, not geeks.
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Old 22nd December 2013, 00:16   #112
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MP3 and MP4/AAC formats when encoding and decoding require licensing with the volume of downloads that Winamp had and most of the other players should do the same as well but they either circumvent things (as you're pushing for in your comments) or just ignore it and due to historic reasons, Winamp is on the radar for such things so it has to pay it - welcome to corporate reality.

the 'pro' license covered a number of things which your comments are completely ignoring as you're focusing on one thing only.

and what you're saying means Winamp should then just not provide MP3 support for example or make the user download a plug-in (which still would need to be licensed) - sorry to inform you but from a user view point and a usability that is an epic fail of a suggestion and kills Winamp as one of it's main uses.

and the 'baggage' you're taking about can easily not be installed, again showing a lack of understanding about how Winamp works.

and not going with FFMpeg is because it is a dog and with everything i've already said, it would not have been viable under agreements which were made and in place.

and yes you're probably not going to like this and tear my response to shreds but it's the reality of things as was and is how it was whether it's liked or not and everyone forgets / never knows a lot of the crap that was done behind the scenes to keep Winamp free (as everything even when 'free' has a cost which i have to say all of your arguments completely ignore the reality off).
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Old 22nd December 2013, 00:54   #113
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Just to add to DrO's reply...

Thompson/Fraunhofer own the mp3 patent.
It doesn't matter what decoder or encoder you use, whether FhG, LAME, Nero, or other,
to be legal, you still need to pay Thompson/FhG.

Other free players might be able to get away with it, but Winamp can't.

As DrO said, shipping Winamp without mp3 playback support would be pretty crazy,
as would expecting users to download a separate dll for mp3 support.

Likewise, MPEG4v2 & H.264 decoding requires a license from MPEG-LA (the patent owners),
regardless of what decoder you use.

The cost of Pro covers this per-user license, alongside the mp3 encoder license & the full Sonic CD Engine.

Thus, Winamp is fully licensed & legal :-)
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Old 22nd December 2013, 04:47   #114
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Continuing the pile-on...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Flay View Post
FREE "Lame_enc.dll" which does not use any Fraunhofer or Thomson code.
It doesn't have to. The patents describe certain vital features of an MP3 encoder. Any compiled, functioning code or libraries that do MP3 encoding must therefore be licensed when those patents are in effect, or the patents are being infringed and legal action can be taken against those who distributed the code. That's why LAME's name was chosen to emphasize that its developers merely distribute source code. Source code is not subject to patents. LAME is not distributed in compiled, patent-infringing form except by random fans of the project, people who usually operate under pseudonyms. FFmpeg is in the same boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Flay View Post
Personally I would happily junk the Fraunhofer Winamp MP4/AAC encoder in favour of the superior and award-winning AAC encoder from Nero (again, available for free).
Nero is only freely obtained as a bundle of executables, and only for personal non-commercial or evaluation purposes. Nero DLLs aren't free, and there's no public source code from which people can build their own. Plus, Nero is surely paying for licenses for the executables, and just choosing not to pass the cost to consumers. The company may be altruistic, but most likely it eats the cost of those licenses because the free downloads are a form of promotion for its non-free products & services, and results in a lot of helpful field testing.

As for quality, Nero is comparable to the other giants, but in my experience, it has trouble with tambourines unless you really crank up the bitrate. Apple and Fraunhofer do better, and came out neck-and-neck or a little bit ahead of Nero in listening tests. They're all so close, though, I wouldn't say any AAC encoders are inferior except faac.

Anyway, I do sympathize with the sentiment that the legal minefield that these for-profit companies have chosen to create through their patent-related practices is antithetical to a certain kind of geek, but the good news is that MP3 encoding will become patent-free at the end of 2017. Then we can make and distribute all the free MP3 encoders we want.
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Old 22nd December 2013, 11:27   #115
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some of the MP3 patents already expired in Europe in 2012 iirc and its the mess of the US patent system which got things extended by a few more years (which sadly Winamp is subject to by being a US based product).
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Old 22nd December 2013, 12:44   #116
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reading...and learning all the time.
Thanks

Cheers, Pete

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Old 22nd December 2013, 14:41   #117
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Can we put some of this "Why licensing isn't free" into a sticky on both the forums. So this can be pointed to when each clueless noobie comes along and whines for an Open Source release in yet another thread?
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Old 22nd December 2013, 22:07   #118
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Clueless noobie is a bit harsh I think.
You may make it sound like your words are coming from a smug know it all.
:-)
Not everyone knows the intricate workings of copyright, licences etc. They are not Lawyers. And when people see other players using same codecs etc for free they are within their rights to presume the same may apply to Winamp.

Agree with the rest.

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Old 23rd December 2013, 03:43   #119
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Implied Logic and True logic are neither similar nor agreeable. Open source would in many ways doom winamp as it has many other products through the years. However, on another side it would enable it for so many others that have not had the chance to utilize it.

Generally, speaking...to much of Winamp is what it is as a result of licensed codecs, code and patents that make it the best of the bunch. I do wish it had many other things that gave it even more usability; However, that day may come...in a near future or perhaps, even less likely it will die a death.

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That's not a skin, it's some god awful piece of skinner gunk. - Mr. Jones
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Old 23rd December 2013, 09:27   #120
Batter Pudding
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djpete1959 View Post
Clueless noobie is a bit harsh I think.
You may make it sound like your words are coming from a smug know it all.
:-)
Not everyone knows the intricate workings of copyright, licences etc. They are not Lawyers. And when people see other players using same codecs etc for free they are within their rights to presume the same may apply to Winamp.

Agree with the rest.
It wasn't supposed to be smug, it was just a request. Sorry the words upset you. I was just asking to get a copy of this so we can point at it each time the same question comes up. Precisely because of the reason you are giving.
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