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View Poll Results: What happens when you die?
You live for ever in a heaven/hell. 16 26.23%
You are reincarnated with knowledge of past. 3 4.92%
You are reincarnated without knowledge of past. 7 11.48%
That's the end of life, period. 12 19.67%
Who do I look like, God or something? 23 37.70%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 22nd March 2002, 03:05   #41
Radiohead
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All I know is that you can't be reincarnicated with knowledge of the past...
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Old 22nd March 2002, 04:18   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by andrewsanders
dont bust your balls over it. we dont know. no lame bible has solid evidence of what happens, hell and that crap is for little kids to encourage them not to be bad.
How about you actually read the Bible and then you can make staements like that.

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Old 22nd March 2002, 08:48   #43
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I vote for the heave/hell stuff except that I don't believe in hell. How can there be a LOVING God if there is hell? I strongly beliebe everyone goes to heaven, because sins are forgive. This of course doesn't mean you can do whatever you like on earth, absolutely not. I only think that our way of thinking in punishment is rubbish.
Besides, I also don't believe you have a sense for time any more, but will exist as , well, an entity, you are, there is no time and therefore it can't flow by.

No matter what you believe though, it will be entirely new and contrary to what we are today and unexperienced by us.
Nothing is just as unexplainable as everything and in the end we have no choice but to do the step and see.

Just my 2 cents.

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Old 22nd March 2002, 10:02   #44
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andrewsanders.. how can you be seeking 'solid evidence' for such a topic?
bible is about faith.
You can seek truth anywhere. and you can be convinced in anything, as long as you are honest in it. But if you feel you found a light in Bible for instance, (or anything else, for that matters) then you could follow it and take it as an answer, not a proof. to believe is about the heart, not the brain. It's about the soul, not the mind.
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Old 22nd March 2002, 13:31   #45
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Strange Posting Prob. I clicked on edit....hmmm

hmmm????

Last edited by Hunter; 22nd March 2002 at 15:14.
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Old 22nd March 2002, 15:05   #46
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Can someone explain REPENT to me please? I was told what it meant before but I've forgotten, Thanks!
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Old 22nd March 2002, 17:23   #47
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Repent means to confess your sins to God and then not do them anymore. (key point)

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Old 22nd March 2002, 23:50   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vica
Listen to the truth and listen well:
  • to die is to be with God, "ALL" who are dead are in heaven awaiting judgement
  • death is not the end, its a transition, a crossover as your soul leaves your body
  • at the end of the world there will be judgement and there those who will go to heaven and hell will be decided
  • in heaven we will all be reunited with our family who are there
Is this *really* the truth? Or just in your opinion?

Quote:
Ignoring issues on God and death solves nothing, it would only restrict you from living life to the fullest.
Not necessarily. As long as a person is kind, moral, and uses common sense he/she can live an extremely fulfilling life even if religion is not part of his/her life at all.

Neargh.
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Old 22nd March 2002, 23:53   #49
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again, this is only your opinion..
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Old 23rd March 2002, 00:00   #50
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Why don't we all just commit mass suicide to find out???? huh? whats that? nobody is gonna join me? oh well...

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Old 23rd March 2002, 00:34   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by nature spirit
again, this is only your opinion..
Wait, are you talking to me?

Neargh.
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Old 23rd March 2002, 03:31   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by sscw46
Is this *really* the truth? Or just in your opinion?
This what I have gathered from reading the Bible in the past and from teachings from others.

As for the so called "good" person who does all good, it does not matter. The one bad thing you do is enough. Everyone has dirt on them. What christianity does is make you acknowledge your shortcomings and give ways to work on them through Christ.


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Old 26th March 2002, 13:30   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by sscw46


Wait, are you talking to me?
in fact.. euh yes. my point was: you hinted at the Vica's post by asking Is this *really* the truth? Or just in your opinion? and you meant that he's stating only his opinion. and directly after you state a thought of yours, which I respect, but I needed to remind that it undergoes the same comment you made: that it's simply your own opinion.
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Old 26th March 2002, 22:05   #54
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But what I said really was true; there are plenty of non-religious people who live fulfilling lives.

Neargh.
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Old 26th March 2002, 22:42   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by sscw46
But what I said really was true; there are plenty of non-religious people who live fulfilling lives.
Like me.

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Old 26th March 2002, 22:48   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vica
This what I have gathered from reading the Bible in the past and from teachings from others.

As for the so called "good" person who does all good, it does not matter. The one bad thing you do is enough. Everyone has dirt on them. What christianity does is make you acknowledge your shortcomings and give ways to work on them through Christ.
umm... just like all other religions.

i'm sure i'd be religious if any religion was more valid than others.

which they ain't, so i ain't.

you're right Vica. religion can be a good way of realising who you are. it's not the only one though, it's not right for everyone, and it's certainly not right for me, now.

so endeth my lesson

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Old 28th March 2002, 07:55   #57
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sscw46.. fulfilling is very relative as a term. let's define it first. IMHO yes, you can be a straight person (in the symbolic meaning of it) with a clean record, good relation with parents and friends, etc.. etc.. and still feel something missing inside of you.
Personally I believe that there is inside every human being a tendency for something infinite.. perfection. this is kinda discreet link between us as humans and God (who is source of perfection). once we settle our relation with God, this continious feeling of missing something out will be replaced with an ultimate peace at heart.
again, this is only my opinion, and I'm just stating it, for I can convince noone with it unless he/she seeks truth him/herself.
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Old 28th March 2002, 18:17   #58
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i used to be religious. but it led to me feeling something was missing. i'm too critical to believe in religion. my life is more fulfilling now than it could ever have been when i was religious.

works for some, not for me.

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Old 28th March 2002, 19:07   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
i used to be religious. but it led to me feeling something was missing. i'm too critical to believe in religion. my life is more fulfilling now than it could ever have been when i was religious.

works for some, not for me.
I would like to ask, do you still religously tie your shoes the same way? Do you religiously put your pants on same leg first? I think that everyone is very religious about the things they do. Just because you might no longer go to church religiously doesn't mean you're not a religious person. My life is full of religious actions. When I wake up, I religiously brush my teeth, use the toilet, put clean clothes on, ect. All these things are as much of a religion as going to church every sunday. If this morning ceremony ever changed, the rest of my day would be crappy.

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Old 28th March 2002, 21:21   #60
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Old 28th March 2002, 21:27   #61
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I was dead once.
There wasn't a tunnel of light or a chorus of angels. One minute, I was passed out on the floor of my best friends house, then the next thing I knew I was in the back of an ambulance with 2 paramedics saying I'd flatlined for just over 2 minutes.
You only get one life. Once you're dead, you're gone. That's my view on the issue.

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Old 29th March 2002, 00:04   #62
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God is real, Jesus is real, heaven is real.

You can't convince me otherwise.

Show me all the scientific 'proof' (isnt science based on theory?) ya like - but what year is it? 2002 AD right? And 2002 years since what? We celebrate christmas - why? Easter?

If you want a spiritual discussion - http://bbs.payableondeath.com/ubb/ul...?ubb=forum;f=2

Its at the P.O.D. website (their christian too!)
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Old 29th March 2002, 00:23   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by Switch7
[B]God is real, Jesus is real, heaven is real.

You can't convince me otherwise.
Nobody's trying to. Part of living in a free society is the freedom to choose your belief, even if its no belief at all.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sawg Overly-Religious people are fun to mess with, especially the Mormons.
Funniest thing I've ever seen is when 2 baptists (Southern Baptists) came to my door a few months back. You should see the looks they gave me when I started making out with Beau in front of them. Can you say "Stunned Bunny"?

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Old 29th March 2002, 00:37   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrMagick
I would like to ask, do you still religously tie your shoes the same way? Do you religiously put your pants on same leg first?
heh. nice.

different meaning of "religiously" though.

plus we say "trousers" in this country

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Old 29th March 2002, 04:07   #65
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Well... I'm not religious, and before recently I never really thought about it. But last year, my dad died - he was 39, I was 15. Just one month before my birthday, he was gone. Since then, I've definetly been depressed, and have been thinking about what it's like to die... and my only reasonable conclusion is that the body simply decomposes, and you're nothing more.

There's the classic Heaven and Hell theory... that's the theory I've heard for the longest time, I still hear often, and lately I just can't believe in it. But then, I've heard of reincarnation. I'm not sure whether to believe it or not. I find it hard to believe; but who knows? The post by Indyrod is probably the most upsetting to me, and hopefully incorrect, because I hope that one day I'll get to be with my dad again.

Just recently - in fact I first started reading about its effects and asking people I know and strangers online about it to get all the information I could get one day before my dad's 40th birthday - I was considering using marijuana. It really wasn't for much but for fun and to see what it's really like, after I found that the government was full of crap, with their outrageous lies and propaganda on the drug. My first "spiritual" experience with the drug occurred the first time I actually got high.

Anyway, the first time, I couldn't get high. Period. The second time, I was smoking the weed through a hand-made aluminum foil bowl, sitting down on my bed most of the time and occasionally getting up and walking around a couple steps. Hit after hit, I wasn't feeling much at all, except what I was doing and and where I was didn't seem to matter any more. I believe that was the start of my first change of consciousness. I starting to think, "this ain't working. I'm about to give up."

Unfortunately, after a couple more hits - I got up and took a couple steps. I felt something... something strange. It felt like all feelings and emotions were instantaneously lost, now that I think about what I felt. I stopped walking, and suddenly - I seemed to have blacked out. I could not see, hear or feel anything in the physical world, and it felt extremely strange, like there was absolutely no fear, and I was somewhere else... I could not feel my body, period. It felt the whole time as if I were somewhere else... somewhere far away.

During the time what seemed like spiritual thoughts were running through my head. As I couldn't see or hear anything outside of me, I could actually hear my own voice... asking three questions: "Where am I? Who am I? Why am I here?" I had no feelings at all during the black out, and did not think or hear anything but those three questions. I'm pretty sure I did not actually say any of those sentences; I believe they were all in my head. My friend Tom was here, in my room, not getting high, while was getting stoned. I should ask him next time I see him if he remembers me saying any of those sentences that night.

Soon after I heard myself saying those three sentences, my sight, hearing, thoughts, and feelings came back. Heavily altered by the drug, of course, since it was the first time actually getting "high" for me. I found myself back in my room, standing exactly as I was before I blacked out; I was still holding my aluminum foil bowl in one hand and the lighter in the other. In fact, I must've had an extreme amount of weed, as from my research things like that only happen during higher doses.

I regained consciousness shortly after, stoned, and for a while I seemed to have been switching between myself, and a completely different person. While myself, I was slightly afraid and felt more "normal." While "someone else," I was laughing uncontrollably. I couldn't control it, but soon later, the "other person" slowly faded away, and I was just the normal "me," only high, just as I normally feel when getting high now.

Anyway... sorry for getting slightly "off-topic" by talking about drugs. Of course, this was a drug-created state of consciousness, and that should be considered. But for me - I believe I have learned a lot about life - and myself - that night, thanks to the forbidden plant. It seemed as though I was talking deep inside, the the "real" me, and it was a very short, but at the same time very confusing,
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Old 29th March 2002, 04:39   #66
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Life sux. then you die and go to heaven. (you make your own hell here in the living world) then you go back to earth to live another hellish life. when i die, i'm never coming back!!

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Old 29th March 2002, 16:45   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by Switch7
God is real, Jesus is real, heaven is real.
You can't convince me otherwise.
Show me all the scientific 'proof' (isnt science based on theory?) ya like - but what year is it? 2002 AD right? And 2002 years since what? We celebrate christmas - why? Easter?
Couldn't say it better myself, just came back from my Good Friday survice and I loved it.....God bless you.


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Old 29th March 2002, 17:25   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Switch7
God is real, Jesus is real, heaven is real.

You can't convince me otherwise.

Show me all the scientific 'proof' (isnt science based on theory?) ya like - but what year is it? 2002 AD right? And 2002 years since what? We celebrate christmas - why? Easter?
you cannot logically prove that something is definately untrue.

isn't religion based on theory?

2002 years since 5 years after jesus was born (i think it's 5) - gotta love those innaccuracies. most people i know celebrate christmas and easter out of habit, and because it's an excuse to give presents, be merry, sell things and eat chocolate.

look, i'm not saying religion is untrue. no-one can say that. i just cannot justify it to myself. anybody who says that those who are not religious are evil are, in my humble opinion, wrong. moreso. (same argument for people who blindly deny any, not necessary their own, religion).

if i became religious, i'd be unsure, unhappy and lying to myself.

that's why i'm not. does nobody else feel like this?

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Old 29th March 2002, 23:07   #69
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Nature spirit, I understand what you're saying now and it makes sense. The relationship between perfection, God, and humans is something I've never noticed before.

I guess I'm not that kind of person who finds religion as the supplimentary thing to fill the void in my life. It's logical how others do though.

Neargh.
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Old 30th March 2002, 00:19   #70
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Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, so if you wanna geek out about you will actually be around for ever. The body you are using is just star dust anyways. You will in essence be another form.

New question, what were you before you were you? Now that is a hard question to answer.
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Old 30th March 2002, 00:27   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by Switch7
We celebrate christmas - why? Easter?
ah so you think that just because America, which was founded by Christians and Protestants, celebrates a holiday it makes God and Jesus Real, hmm poor poor. Personally my mind is my church, I really don't need evidence to prove my belives. If it makes since to me, I'll consider it. I also, certainly do not try to convince others that my beliefs are the truth. belief and truth are so different
Quote:
Originally posted by Switch7
Its at the P.O.D. website (their christian too!) [/B]
so.... who cares if POD is christian?
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Old 30th March 2002, 04:21   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
if i became religious, i'd be unsure, unhappy and lying to myself.

that's why i'm not. does nobody else feel like this?
I have felt like that before. That's why I'm finding everything that makes me feel sure happy and honest about myself. If you look inside hard and long enough these things will surface. Even without religion. I think religion is someones guide to doing so.

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Old 30th March 2002, 06:05   #73
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Actually, you God know the answer to the question....hehe...

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Old 30th March 2002, 20:35   #74
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I've had to read Descartes recently for my Philosophy class and in his first meditation he describes the situation of a prisoner who dreams of liberation from his sad state. In his dreams the prisoner knows he is dreaming but still wants to dream on because his dreams are so well created by his mind that he takes them to be real.

Perhaps we are in the same position now where we live in a self created world that is somewhat like a dream because all the restrictions, rules, burdens and pains of believing that a God exist are removed. Why worry and weigh out all the thoughts about the existence of God when you could just float through life with no worries.
In the end your dead and your done....

...isn't life dreamy...or is it?


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Old 30th March 2002, 20:39   #75
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sscw46..
I'm so glad I could communicate my thoughts.

in fact, I could give a more concrete example.. art. it's very very amazing how could a person share the skill of creation with God through art. what was observed though, that the more artists were geniuses and creative, the more they used to notice they are searching in vain for perfection. Classic arts were searching for prefection in realism. modern were searching for perfection in innovation and creativity. Only honest artists felt deep inside they are looking always forward without being able to fulfill this definitely.
We've been created with that tendency for the infinite. Seeking God and finding Him makes us feel and be complete.

I understand sscw46 you might not feel -at least for the time being of your life- any need of any kind to feel fulfilled.

However I think religion is not in its essence in any way a 'supplimentary thing' just 'to fill the void' in our lives.
If you believe in something -let it be your favorite sport team- so much you would let it take an important part of your life. How about believing in your creator that granted you life and freedom, even the freedom to ignore Him and just say no.
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Old 31st March 2002, 03:09   #76
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Well put!

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Old 31st March 2002, 15:47   #77
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sorry, i started babbling randomly while writing this post, so i compiled the babble into this handy lil blob:

[babble]
maybe the need for the infinite is a need to fulfil our curiosity, rather than our creator.

infinity is the most difficult concept of all, as it can't exist.

religion doesn't fill a void in one's life. generally. it gives people something/one to believe in. it's as valid as science, and science is as valid as it. different belief systems. think about it.

i'm also interested to know what would happen if god sent down another child. you'd laugh him away. like the romans.

something i learned recently is that "satanism" is the state of not being christian. scarily enough.

why do people insist on attempting to convert people to religions? surely it's against a religious mindset.
[/babble]

bottom line: i just want religious people to respect the views of those not religious, and vice versa. the world doesn't need more preachers any more than it needs more anti-religious people.

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Old 31st March 2002, 17:04   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by zootm
something i learned recently is that "satanism" is the state of not being christian. scarily enough.
A true statement. However, that isn't all that satanism really is. I have studied this topic quite a bit. I never cared much for how they practiced but the phylosophy interested me. For more info, Anton Levay is a very well known author on the subject.

-~MrMagick~-
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Old 31st March 2002, 17:14   #79
GoldenSphynx
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Try Islam as your guide. It is undoubtedly the most accurate and beautiful religion in the world.
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Old 31st March 2002, 17:41   #80
nature spirit
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zootm.. I deeply respect all what you say and nothing honestly said should be called babbling in anyway.

ok.. so you mentioned curiosity.. what is this curiosity? why we've been created with this 'kind of curiosity'?
if you go through some psycho-socio-human studies done so far you would find out that this goes farther than just curiosity. it's something mysterious and yet so obvious for anyone who would subtly observe it.
the tendency for the infinite is not just something for perfection. it holds along with it several values that are all infinite in their essence and can never be defined by our limited brains. example, beauty. it's an eternal enigma that no one could find its secret. happiness is another one as well.
we can all touch them with our fingertips and know they exist but never get a hold on them. However, through our souls, we could perceive them and absorb their glow, in the same only through our souls we could feel complete and peaceful when we open our hearts and existence to God.
Trust me, this is no poetry or philosophy. It's about experience.. not mine, but a collective and universal experience.

You're right zootm. religion is not in anyway a group or a party for which members try as hard to 'collect' followers. However, if you feel you hold in some way the truth, you would love to share it. of course sharing should not in anyway be like 'insisting' or creating a whole system and media to do it. the search for truth and God is afterall a personal initiative and somehow, a personal journey.
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