Old 3rd September 2013, 20:47   #1
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President seeks congressional approval

September 9th, the Congress will start the procedure to see if we'll let President Barack Obama take his dick out of the drawer and bomb Syria. Ordinarily Michelle doesn't let Obama take his dick with him when he goes out in public. It requires Congressional approval.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...98009420130901

Yes indeed. Obama is having trouble finding "consensus" All of Europe has condemned the use of chemical weapons, but their dick's are firmly under lock and key.

Obama wouldn't go to war without some consensus. Any consensus? Please? European allies? House Republicans? Maybe Obama could get Kim Jong Un to agree with him. That would be something.

By the time this gets through Congress and the UN, the operation will be called Swiss Miss, where we pat Syria's dictatorship on the head and give it a cocoa.

Quote:
“LET ALLAH SORT IT OUT

So we’re bombing Syria because Syria is bombing Syria? And I’m the idiot?” - Sarah Palin
The smartest thing said this week?

This whole thing is the Obama doctrine in operation. If it works Obama will take credit. If it doesn't work, or goes badly, he wants somebody to blame it on. Nobody seems to be signing up to take the blame. They know Obama. They know that if anything goes wonky, Obama's gonna blame it all on them and call them racists for good measure.

If he doesn't bomb Syria everybody,including Al Queda, is going to rightly call him a pussy. If he does bomb Syria, he'll give Al Queda a photo op to show a bunch of dead bodies that may or may not have been killed by America. The liberals will scream if one kid falls off his bike. Michelle will never let him take his pecker out of the drawer again.
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Old 12th September 2013, 00:57   #2
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lol.

Unfortunately, this country does not need another war. We can not afford it.

Call us names, I don't care. Time to GTFO and stop being the world's police.

Remember Pearl Harbor? Sounds like a limited air strike to me (yes, I am being absurd with that one, you caught me).

War costs money, money that we don't have.

Did you hear that the world is starting to move on from the US dollar as the international currency same as they did with GBP's stirling not so long ago? I guess other countries are pissed that we keep printing more money to bail ourselves out, thereby devaluing the dollar across the world. Sounds like a grand idea to me.

Time to start buying precious metals boys, it will be the only thing worth anything after long as it looks like the greenback is on it's way out...
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Old 13th September 2013, 02:28   #3
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Here's your lifetime of debt, a college degree and an Obamaphone. What else could a guy want? Sign here victim. A social worker will be along to help you tie your shoes. Uhh... you don't have any guns do you? Here's your cube! You will be spending the next 50 years there sweating your mortgage and car payment.

Gold won't matter when the kids kill us for making their lives miserable. Every month now, we're making 200,000 more 18 year olds than jobs.

Gold? Silver? I doubt it matters unless there is still an economy. Millions of kids with nothing to do? That's a problem.

I've seen gold and silver run up and down. It's more like hiding money in your mattress than an investment.

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Old 6th October 2013, 00:42   #4
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ROH, that whole post is why I',m so pissed off with the current state of affairs....

And, precious metals never devalue. Fixed quantity... supply and demand. Unlike the US dollar, you just can't print more gold/silver/platinum.

All these people pissed off at a government shutdown when the government is not sustainable itself.

Remember the auto bailout? What did we do to them first? Shut them down...
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Old 6th October 2013, 17:41   #5
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And Obama polices are responsible for trying to hinder Capitalism too, right? Let the free market rule! Grab up all the resources possible, buy low and sell high. Let the buyer beware. If you're drowning in industrial pollution (what's left of it), move. In God we trust, all others pay cash.

Seems to me Regan's polices were responsible for this renewed era of unbridled greed and opportunity. We or our parents were all given a chance to get a piece of the pie. After-all, the restrictions were removed in the 1980's. So cook the books, sell junk bonds and worthless stock, or sell worthless products (or sell worthwhile things, the profit margin is less but you then don't have to worry about the slim chance of having to deal with criminal repercussions). No one was trying to stop you or them then and still can't, really. Move whatever production is needed to wherever labor costs are the lowest. Services are the way to go anyway. Pay top executives hundreds of times more than the other workers. How else can you attract the best? Who is going to buy the products/services and where are they going to be sold? That's a minor problem for marketing and advertising, nothing to worry about. Food is also not a problem. What immigrant workers can't produce domestically on the corporate farms, just get from 3rd world countries. We don't really need individual American farmers anymore, do we?

But some of us didn't get a piece of the pie. Most of us have-nots are just the little helpless folk, just trying to survive, right? We were in the wrong place at the right time, or in the right place at the wrong time, and missed our opportunity through no fault of our own.

At least the Tea Party folks are fighting back against Obama. Their approach is the way to go. Yeah, that's the ticket___Shut down the US government, then default on paying the US bills already incurred, wreck the US economy and therefore the World's. Then everyone gets to start over, right? Survival of the fittest. Yeah, that's the ticket!

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Old 6th October 2013, 21:33   #6
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I don't think there is a fool out there that wants to see the US default on her loans.

Now, having said that, does not mean I don't think there is no possibility of the US defaulting. I unfortunately think that is a very real possibility.

Without getting too much into it, the world got itself into real trouble when countries across the globe stopped having enough bullion of what ever their precious metal of choice was to back their chosen currency. Retrospectively, that was a bad move because, on a simplistic level, it led to "our money is worth this much because we are a good country, we say so, and other people seem to agree).

Fast forward. The US is in trouble (sounds like England not so long ago, back when sterling was the world's currency). What's our solution? Raise the debt ceiling, print more money, say it's all good because we say so. What is the problem with that? The US is starting to piss other countries off by doing this because, being the world's currency, we devalue the world every time we do it. But that's okay, because we say so.

Now, lets look at our bills. Anyone else out there have a problem with the fact that all these bills and programs are not being paid for with real money? I'm mean, junk costs money. You should never be allowed to buy junk on credit (but we screwed that pooch as soon as we stepped away from bullion to back our dollar). If you don't have a problem with that, you should.

So, let's look at the GOP and the democrats. GOP: anti big government; Democrats: pro big government. This fundamental mindset extends and explains any non-socialist/socialist stereotypes you want to slap on to either party. Republicans are conservatives; Democrats are liberals. Conservative and liberal ideologies can be applied to finances as well...

So, why has the GOP done what it's done? They are worried as hell about what is going on. Obamacare is not funded. Obamacare is going to be a major slice out of the US debt. It's a great place to start in terms of making this country a little more solvent. If the GOP did not pick Obamacare to start this, then the jackassery that exists in politics would have gotten this ignored until October 17th, when we ran out of money. People are beginning to get afraid of what happens the next time we raise the debt ceiling, print more money, and lie to the world that it's all good.

This situation we have gotten ourselves must be addressed and I personally would rather see it addressed sooner rather than later and especially before we run the rick of screwing the rest of the world over along with us.

The media, congress, and our president is doing an absolutely deplorable job at letting the American population know exactly how fucked we are right now. Instead they all focus their time telling everyone this isn't a game, we need to reach an agreement, and neither side is willing to make any concessions. But please keep the fuck in mind that no one gets 100% of what they want. Those last two sentences are really what's deplorable about what is going on right now.

You want to be pissed off at someone, try to be pissed off at the games politicians in general are playing. Don't eat the bullshit the media feeds you about the situation either, they are as bad if not worse than the politicians.
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Old 7th October 2013, 06:43   #7
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We told the President the cost of our medical care was too high. Then he consulted the people who were raping us and they said grab the sink.



This is Karen Ignagni Insurance company lobbyist. She made Obama into a scooby snack with a deal so sweet her bosses were probably doing the pp dance for a week. We all thank you Karen for making sure your insurance companies are 15% profitable for the foreseeable future.

I think I'm in love.

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I unfortunately think that is a very real possibility
The US government has shut down before. Last year the US government lost it's AAA credit rating. It's still AA. The US is solvent. It's method of providing health care is a pariah but it's solvent.

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Old 7th October 2013, 15:28   #8
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I don't think there is a fool out there that wants to see the US default on her loans.
Where have you been the last few decades? There are a lot of fools, many in positions of power (in the US and world-wide), that would love to see that happen. Politicians of all stripes love playing games of brinkmanship. But the 'new' GOP has taken things to where nothing is excluded. Their games cost the US it's AAA credit rating last year. What will happen this time?

My previous post was all 'black humor' (satire). Are we so naive and comfortable that we believe the veneer of civilization, the industrial world currently practices, can survive anything? How much more will it take to change us from figuratively tearing at each others throats to literally doing so?

The US currently has the world's major economy and it's best military (excluding Israel's), so it gets to 'call the shots'. The US dollar is the basis of the World's currencies and it is worth what the US says it is worth, period. The faith in, and credit of, the US is nothing to be played with. The US 'sneezes' and the world 'catches a cold'. How much longer are our internal squabbles, that bring misery to so many others outside our borders, going to be tolerated? Do we really believe a World War III is not possible?

History says it is possible, even likely. All this has happened to former World Powers before. Unless our politicians stop playing with 'fire' internally (and regain the spirit of true compromise), it will happen again. The only difference this time is that weapons exist that can return us all to the Stone Age or worst (but that alone will not prevent it). Or maybe it's inescapable (human nature) and just a matter of time.

Maybe Great Britain is glad it no longer has to bear the responsibility of being 'top dog'. Maybe it is glad that the US used the opportunity of World War II to unseat it. But there are other nations that never had the 'role' and still aspire to it. Are the majority of Americans ready for that, do we really want someone else to run things for awhile?

And the irony is a World War is not even needed this time (but that won't prevent it either). If we, in the US, maintain our intractable positions over national entitlements, spending, and taxes; we will forfeit our current position of world leadership anyway. Will that really benefit the US (internally) at this point in time, when all industrial nations are so dependent on each other?

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Old 7th October 2013, 22:15   #9
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Politicians of all stripes love playing games of brinkmanship.
How could you do anything else?

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The US currently has the world's major economy and it's best military (excluding Israel's), so it gets to 'call the shots'.
US influence isn't primarily by force. Peacekeeping is necessary. As a 20 year occupation of Serbia proved. If you can get people settled down, they quit shooting.
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Old 8th October 2013, 23:12   #10
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US influence isn't primarily by force.
Of course, and that's not what I said. I said the US is the major economic and military power. Having an overwhelming military most often means you don't have to use it (or use it much). That's one thing Regan got right, imo.

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Old 9th October 2013, 12:49   #11
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There are a lot of fools, many in positions of power (in the US and world-wide), that would love to see that happen.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/us...-bad.html?_r=0

my only comment, if there is validity to this report, is: what a complete bunch of asshats.
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Old 9th October 2013, 16:10   #12
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Obama wants a blank check to print and borrow Obamacare. The Republicans don't want to give him one and they don't have to. At least not yet.

You might have heard me say this before. If the Democrat "Supermajority" had to fund Obamacare, they never would have passed it.

The last time the Republicans did this in 2011, they got a 1.2 Trillion dollar cut in spending out of the Democrats. Not asshats. People doing what they believe in.

I'm what you call a "Blue Dog", not a conservative. I think Obamacare is freaking nuts.

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Old 9th October 2013, 17:23   #13
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Not sure why I singled this out of all of what you said... but it is a starting point.

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The Republicans aren't doing this because they are evil. Even if you don't agree with them, they have a point. We are spending far beyond our means. Obamacare is beyond our means.

...

It's not a matter of being an asshat. It's a matter of whether you want the government to mandate that we all give and borrow $30TN in the next ten years to buy our medical system that still doesn't insure everybody.
Yep. I agree with that and just about everything inbetween. What I have a problem with is this is being done at a rather high cost given a US default.

Then again, I can see why the GOP is doing this... they give in and no one will listen to them anymore; and I think they despirately need to be listened to for all the reasons you just pointed out.

As an aside ... an arguement can be made that medical costs are what they are partly because of the numbers of uninsured people who walk into the ER and get reated. I've said for years "free healthcare" is alive and well in this country via our ER's. When my wife was a resident in Chicago and Detroit she could not keep track of the number of patients ERs admitted and treated that did not have healthcare.

Anyway, back to the point, an arguement can be made that costs are high because maybe only 3 out of every 5 procedures actually get paid for. It's the system's/hospitals own way of making sure it gets the true cost back out.

Then, of course, things really start to get murky when you introduce the word "insurance". Who the hell knows what they are going to cover anymore. Again, yet another potential reason as to why medical costs are so high. What you get is hospitals/places of care trying to bill for as much as they legally can because they have no idea how much they are actually going to see in return. I can tell you matter of factly sometimes they get a cash cow for procedures that insurance reimburses like crazy on; but most of the time they get short changed.

I know I have said this before as well, I still do not understand. I simply don't get why the medical care reform did not start with tort reform. Mind. Blown. Don't get it. We've got the best healthcare in the world over here, why change the system when you can start with a tort reform that will likely drives costs down to the point that it is affordable.

For those not so fortunate enough to be able to afford good healthcare after tort reform, lets put a sales tax on everything. Literally. Everything. In that system, the "poor" contribute what they can, while the "rich" bear the brunt of the system.

Well... I don't get it other than the fact that many of our politicians are lawyers ... ha! Tort reform and cut into our lawsuit gains!

Corrput bastards...

Back to that cartel idea...
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Old 9th October 2013, 17:31   #14
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What I have a problem with is this is being done at a rather high cost given a US default.
There is no US default. The rent is 9 days late.

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. an arguement can be made that medical costs are what they are partly because of the numbers of uninsured people who walk into the ER and get reated
And it's complete bullshit. 30% of our people are uninsured, so our medical bills are 400% higher.
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Old 10th October 2013, 14:58   #15
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fc*uk said hospitals having to provide free treatment is partly the reason for high costs. That is true.

Another part of why is that the Government can only set cost for what it pays for. The private sector wants (and in some cases, needs) more and charges others accordingly.

Another part of why is insurance companies playing the 'middleman game' under the banner of 'free enterprise'. For something as vital as health care, I would like to see a hard cap on their profit margins (not a percentage) or health insurance only be provided by 'non-profits' and/or 'not for profits'. But then it wouldn't be 'free enterprise'.

Another part of why is law suits. But malpractice does occur and more often than it should. Many that provide medical care are pushed or push themselves too far in the hours that they work and/or don't keep up to-date with the info they need to know to avoid accidents. If an 'oops' happened to you, what price would you put on your life if you didn't survive or on your reduced quality of life if you did? For me, quality of life is worth more than life alone and life itself is price-less. This is a 'special' special case and no wonder it was left out of the original ACA. Provisions related to tort reform would have killed the whole thing. Tort reform can be pursued separately, why are the GOP not offering bills on that?

Another part of why is labor costs. The cost to educate and train is too high (but it is for most things). The horizontal and vertical variances in pay scale are too large. Each provider in the chain (from doctor/surgeon to orderly/nurse's aid) needs adequate compensation (but over-compensation for those at the top happens everywhere).

Another part of why is drugs. The cost of development and approval. As a side note, I think there are too many drugs where the side effects are worst than the issue they are supposed to address, resulting in more (other) drugs.

Another part of why is technology. The cost of development and approval for medical machines (external and internal).

I can go on, but my point is that this is a very complex issue with many contributing pieces. Most (based on their particular interest) want to latch on to 1 or 2 pieces and say fix that and that will fix everything. That is what was going on and not working very well.

Obamacare is the first major attempt at a comprehensive solution. There are pieces left out and pieces put in that can be improved. The GOP should be trying to 'fix' the ACA instead of throwing it all out (the baby with the bath water). If they had tried to help craft the bill in the first place (instead of trying to block it), it would be better now. 'Monday morning quarterbacks' and 'backseat drivers' talk a 'good game', but how hard is that (and contributes nothing positive).

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Old 10th October 2013, 15:20   #16
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There is no US default. The rent is 9 days late.
Yes, it hasn't happened yet. But is it really wise to let creditors think it is even being considered (especially when the money has not actually run out)?

How would you feel if you were the landlord and had your own bills to pay? What if your employer paid you 9 days late? Everyone is paying someone and/or being pay by someone. The honor system is key to everything financial working smoothly. If you can't trust to get most payments due you on time, what would you do?

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Old 11th October 2013, 06:16   #17
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[url]
my only comment, if there is validity to this report, is: what a complete bunch of asshats.
Truth is stranger than fiction. Assuming these folks won honest elections (big assumption), I would say those that voted for them deserve what they get. But, with our form of government, these a-holes (especially the Senators) get to screw over the rest of us too.

Those congressmen that bring about an unnecessary US default should be charged with treason, imo.

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Old 11th October 2013, 12:08   #18
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Here is our POTUS crying like a bitch and threatening some imaginary scenario where the US defaulted on it's loans. Please foreigners, don't watch this. It's so humiliating. Nobody is committing treason. Some House politicians are saying WHOA... BAMA! Where are you going with that $20 Trillion? These politicians are elected and they are doing what they were elected to do. Obama included.

You bet the President wants to settle this all now. The House doesn't agree. The constituents that elected them don't agree. It's America. People get to disagree.


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Old 11th October 2013, 18:21   #19
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Some of this is a little over the top; but some of it is not...

Aminifu: great last few posts. I agree. Now, just exactly does one go about convincing the majority of America that is actually the case!

I did not state this and I know I am technically wrong, but my use of tort reform to fix healthcare is really broad monetary reform across the board, which means it's not really tort reform anymroe.

I believe the government should: subsidize medical school costs; limit reimbursement rates for medical procedures; provide a cap on malpractive lawsuits; possibly even subsudize medical costs or pay for them completely (via various taxes/systems where the rich bear the weight and the poor contribute what they can).

A lot of this is already being done either at home or around the world:

1. In France, the government gives you a test. If you score high enough, you get into their government run medical schools, which are the only medical schools in the country. The cost of medical school is 10 euro a semester. I know this because my wife was an exchange student in France. She has kept close with both the family and their children since that time. Their oldest daughter came to the US to spend three months shadowing my wife in residency so she could figure out what she wanted to do in France. She had been accepted into the program. She said the cost was 10 euro a semester.

2. Limit reimbursement rates. Look north to Canada, where my wife spent a year doing a fellowship. I realize the pitfall here. In Canada physicians are governemnt employees, so the government sets the rate and controls it. Regardless, it's absolute bullshit that private practice physicians in this country can personally pocket close to $60,000 for a procedure, no matter how complicated. Looking closer to home. My wife is a state employee (see below), she does not get reimbursed for the surgeries she does.

3. The great state of FL, in which I reside, has a policy in place. Any state employee has sovereign immunity and can be sued for a maximum amount of $40,000. Yes, my wife is a physician, but she is a physician for the University of FL, which makes her a state employee. Bang. Cap on malpracice lawsuits. People at this hospital never get sued unless they really mess up because it's simply not worth it. Now yes, I realize the negative there is if something goes wrong that costs a life.

4. A. Subsudize medical costs or pay for them completely. Again look to Canada. The government owns and runs it. They set the costs. People are taxed an additioal 8% on anything they purchase; this is where I get my "poor pay what they can and the rich buying the million dollar car bear the weight". Now, I've been told that Canada's system only works because of the size of their population; I'm not sure if I buy that. Your population is larger, so it costs more money but you have more people buying things that can contribute.

B. Doing this would mean more government control. Again, Canada ... if you want to buy an apple, you pay the price of the apple +8% medical tax + Province tax; that tax base goes for anything. If you want fast food: price of meal +8% medical tax + Province tax + 5% bad food tax. Bad food tax? Yep, the government does not want you eating it, so they tax it more. The "bad food tax" extends all the way from any meal obtained while dining out all the way to pop --- even diet. Juice (natural only), fruits, vegetables, meat, poultry, and fish about are the only items exempted from the "bad food tax".

I would be for all of that.

But Americans? Well, we want to have our cake and eat it too. Free healthcare with no government control. Free healthcare with no strings attached. It simply can not happen. You just can't have it both ways.

Regarding the pharma industry. Yeah, I hear you. I work in R&D for drug development and know well how much it costs. I don't have an answer there. We want our drugs to be safe and effective. That means clinical trials. When a developmental drug proves to be effective, we still want it to cost the $1.00 it actually costs to manufacture. You can't have it both ways. Average cost of a drug from inception to market is hovering around $15 million anymore. Even at $20, $100, or $400 a pill that is a lot of money to recover. That 15 million is only for clinicals and other stuff the regulatory agencies want; in other words they does not include the cost of your scientists.
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Old 11th October 2013, 21:48   #20
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Average cost of a drug from inception to market is hovering around $15 million anymore.
And they're often developed to replace drugs that already exist and have equal efficacy. The difference is a patent. There isn't any money in making drugs that's patents have expired, so we need to invent new drugs that do the same thing.

One great example is all the beta blockers people my age are eating with absolutely no indication it improves outcomes. Another is sleeping pills. We wouldn't want to get you addicted to Benzos. Those are cheap. You need some Ambien which is 10X as expensive and only slightly less addictive.

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Free healthcare with no strings attached. It simply can not happen. You just can't have it both ways.
Sure it can happen. It just can't happen while the cartel that controls our medical, drug and legal industries survives.

Now we overpay by twice or thrice, have worse outcomes, and leave 30 million people still uninsured.

This was a win? The landmark we're supposed to pat Barry on the ass for?

The next time I see big pharma, big law and big medical meet, I don't want to see any smiles.
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Old 12th October 2013, 16:40   #21
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You bet the President wants to settle this all now. The House doesn't agree. The constituents that elected them don't agree. It's America. People get to disagree.
With gerrymandered districts we get extreme views on all sides. But people here are not allowed to be irresponsible (for the most part). You can't yell fire in a crowded theater and get away with it (most of the time). Although the percentages are changing.

The past 10 years I've been semi-retired, so I've come to get my info on our Government activities from watching C-Span. For those who don't know, C-Span broadcasts complete unedited Congressional (House and Senate) sessions, hearings, speeches, news conferences, etc. It also broadcasts complete unedited speeches by the President and White House news conferences.

While time consuming, watching and hearing all that is said provides an understanding that is completely different than that gained from reading media accounts or watching/listening to what is presented on tv and radio 'news' and talk shows. It's even better than browsing various internet sources. It makes it easy to detect where the bias is and on what side.

It has all the comedy, drama, and reality you ever want to see. It's educational (like debate club) to watch opposite sides 'spin' the same set of 'facts' to support their views. It's hilarious to see folks try to reverse their own statements when what they originally said doesn't go over well (often weeks or months later). It's heart breaking to see how a few can cause distress for so many. It's frustrating when all sides present compelling arguments.

Yes people get to disagree in America, but when an agreement must be made, the best were made when neither side gets things all their way. Compromise is one thing, capitulation is something else. Reasonable people should be able to tell one from the other, but they need the all the info (or at least some info from all sides) to come to a reasonable determination.

Our system of government has devolved to 'numbers and nonsense', imo. Those with the best nonsense gets the numbers. It would be very entertaining, if it wasn't real.

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Old 12th October 2013, 22:14   #22
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The irresponsible ones are the Democrats. They made this sweetheart deal for their liberal pals. It has more pork than a ham sandwich. They never have exactly figure out how to pay for it. Then the Republicans come along and say "Whoa!" and they should be saying "Whoa". Everybody should be saying "Whoa!".

The President and pals came up with this crackpot idea and now it's the Republicans are evil and self serving? Bullshit. The only reasonable thing for any reasonable person to do is oppose this son of a bitch. If that shuts down the government for a couple weeks, so what.

Next time I need a health care bill that twice too expensive and doesn't cover everybody, I'll call the Democrats.

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the best were made when neither side gets things all their way.
It's the President that won't negotiate. It's the President that rammed this thing through with a very brief supermajority. The public liked the ACA so well, most of the people who voted for it lost re-election.

Like most liberals, you think you are in the majority with your opinions. Most Americans don't like Obamacare and the more educated they are about it, the more they don't like it.

The Republicans are now following the public will.
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Old 13th October 2013, 02:56   #23
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It's the President that won't negotiate. It's the President that rammed this thing through with a very brief supermajority. The public liked the ACA so well, most of the people who voted for it lost re-election.

Like most liberals, you think you are in the majority with your opinions. Most Americans don't like Obamacare and the more educated they are about it, the more they don't like it.

The Republicans are now following the public will.
It is clear than the GOP is following your will.

I think I'm more in the middle (left leaning) and see sense in many of the right's positions. I just don't like how the GOP is playing the 'game'. I believe some things should not be used as bargaining chips. The 'rules' changes that they are trying to force will have dire consequences.

I guess most Americans did not vote in the last election (or gerrymandering won/lost?).

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Old 13th October 2013, 04:39   #24
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It doesn't take being right wing to be very concerned about what the President and Congress is doing. Some people disagree with it enough to shut the government down for a bit. When they start auctioning things off, I want the Lincoln Memorial.
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Old 13th October 2013, 15:43   #25
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Some people disagree with it enough to shut the government down for a bit.
Some people disagreed with the 2 major wars (1 of which is still going on) and the seniors drug bill (prohibiting bargaining for lower prices) that the previous GOP administration put on the country's credit card. But a Government shutdown and threats of default did not happen.

The GOP's current tactics are hurtful for hundreds of thousands and dangerous for everybody, but you will never publicly admit that.

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Old 14th October 2013, 14:18   #26
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but you will never publicly admit that.
I absolutely admit that.

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. But a Government shutdown and threats of default did not happen
Nobody ever permanently wanted to turn 20% of the GDP over to a few companies.

You mentioned Bush's drug bill. I had an ill parent. This saved me $10,000's of thousands I would have had to pay myself. It was still the wrong way to do it. It's the same with Obamacare. When you notice you are getting robbed, you make it a law that you must pay the muggers?

Most people don't like Obamacare. House Republicans want something. Something that should have been in it like tort reform. They wanted not to take $600BN from medicare. My mom is already dead, but tell me that you want $600BN less for your parents or mine.

So it's not like the House are a bunch of terrorists. Just people with conviction.

The Republicans didn't get any say with the Democrat super majority. Now they are trying to get a say. Remember? People fired the Democrat super majority. The politicians that are in office now were elected to stop or take a serious whack at Obama's spending ideas. They think it's gonna crash the economy. I think it isn't gonna do it any good.

This will be over in 72 hours. March will be interesting.

I'm more blue dog than conservative. I don't think abortion clinics need a drive up windows. Feminists piss me off. Basically anybody who is bitching pisses me off. It means they didn't have enough to do.

My brother told me that righteous anger was how we get things done. I think that's a bunch of crap. The way we get things done is with our hearts and our hands.

I notice some of the docs rebelling a bit too. There is a doc down the street here. She just has a house and a sign out front like the old days. They have to want $8000 a month for the medical buildings 2 miles away. I'll bet this place doesn't cost her $1000 and she lives there.

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Old 14th October 2013, 17:23   #27
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This will be over in 72 hours.
I hope so and in a positive way.

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March will be interesting.
The rest of Obama's term will be interesting, since the GOP doesn't want to let him do anything (good or bad) or give him credit for anything (good). As for the ACA, I don't know what most people like. The people I've talked to seem fairly evenly divided. They like some parts of it and dislike other parts.

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Basically anybody who is bitching pisses me off. It means they didn't have enough to do.

My brother told me that righteous anger was how we get things done. I think that's a bunch of crap. The way we get things done is with our hearts and our hands.
I'm confused.

Are you pissing yourself off or is a lot of what you've been saying not bitching?

Does righteous anger exclude using our hearts and hands?

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She just has a house and a sign out front like the old days. They have to want $8000 a month for the medical buildings 2 miles away. I'll bet this place doesn't cost her $1000 and she lives there.
Yeah, the old days. Our 'family' doctor made house calls when I was a kid.

As to that 8 grand, it's just another example of the current run-away greed in our culture. The realtors think all doctors make a lot, so they feel justified charging a lot. Then the doctors have to charge more (to pay their bills). A vicious circle, that's replicated all over the place. Prices have nothing to do with what something may be worth or the cost to provide it, it's all about charging the most the market will bear. The same item will have vastly different prices depending on where it is sold and to whom (even accounting for exchange and inflation rates).

Profit is fine and necessary. It becomes a problem when it is obsessive and determining when that point occurs is a problem too.

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Old 14th October 2013, 21:01   #28
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The industry hasn't done medical personnel any favors. Your normal doc doesn't get paid much less in the UK than they get here. They don't pay administrators 8 figures, but docs get paid. Unfortunately, you're buried under a student loan because medical school is a racket too.
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Old 16th October 2013, 16:32   #29
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In todays, news, Boehner and the House are going to be given a bill to sign from the Senate. It should look something like the Nazi's giving Rommel a cyanide pill, but I'm sure he will sign it and get the House to go along.
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Old 16th October 2013, 23:12   #30
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If only Boehner could have the intellect and savvy that Rommel had, the tragedy of the last 16 days would not have happened. The man wanted the job as Speaker, but (unlike Nancy P) he can't keep his ducks in a row.

The 'can' is expected to be kicked down the road for 3 months, then the 'circus' starts all over again.

What makes the tactics the GOP tried even more stupid is that more (known and unknown) unnecessary costs will be added to the country's credit card anyway. The very thing they claim to be trying to avoid.

It would be funny, if so many people were not being hurt. If only I could fast forward 20 - 30 years. I'd love to read what the history books then say about all this.

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Old 17th October 2013, 10:30   #31
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What tragedy? Tragedy is when the trade center blows up. This is just your government in action. You think Boehner is stupid? What about Obama?

Obama discussed the medical care issue carefully with the people who were ripping us off and they think we should pay anything they want us to pay. Not only that, we should get fined if we don't.
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Old 18th October 2013, 00:40   #32
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I generally sit up late at night and wonder.

I wonder what happens when you live in a country that are so lawsuit crazed that no one wants to be a physician anymore?

I wonder what happens when you live in a country where getting your medical degree will put you under an easy $300,000 - $400,000; and that's only your medical school costs?

I wonder what happens when you add 30 million people to the healthcare system?

I wonder what happens when you add 30 million people to the healthcare system and your number of physicians in the country are decreasing?

I wonder what happens when you add 30 million people to the healthcare system and provide physicians with reimbursement rates similar to medicaid? We do know why offices put caps on how many medicaid patients they will take, right?

Studies have been done. Flooding a medical system in this manner actually causes quality of care to go down. Early symptoms are missed. Access to needed medical equipment is not there because it's overbooked too. Medical costs actually end up going through the roof.

Frankly, I'm pissed the GOP threw in the towel. Being able to guess your approximate respective ages the two of you will never have to deal with this; I will. That goes back to ROH's comment about the kids killing the older generations for making their lives hell.

ROH: your comments about big pharma are somewhat true. However, more often than not, a new approach to an existing drug is taken in order to get it back under patent protection. Big pharma can't simply invent a new drug and claim it works; the FDA won't allow that.

Now, yes, I realize that indicates that the FDA is a competent organization, which they are not. I think you have seem me write this before: remember ***** that the FDA banned? The patient control group studied was diabetics that poorly managed their diet. You don't say that ***** causes heart attacks. Hmmmm... ever test it on, oh I dunno, anyone who was fucking healthy?

And of course, the more malicious side to the above also exists where the FDA approves drugs that they have no business approving. Now maybe that is because the pharma company that developed it withheld clinical information from the FDA. Maybe not. Luckily when information is withheld, people are getting a nice bed in jail for it.

Aminifu: there are two sides to every story that one must consider. Playing the devil's advocate... Obama could have been willing to negotiate with the GOP to keep the government open. Hell, Clinton did. I don't care what the stakes are or who it is, drawing a line in the sand is never a way to get people on your side; it is not a way to open negotiations. Publicly stating 5,000 times that in people in government must be willing to negotiate, not everyone gets what they want, and then drawing a line in the sand makes you look like a total fucking asshole no matter who you are to those that realize what you just did.

Let's take that further. Specifically telling everyone involved behind closed doors to make this as painful as possible for the American people is just childish. Closing open air monuments and opening them for immigration marches only strengthens the point that you are acting like a child.

What I find really funny is how the media is spinning this whole mess as how obama and congress saved the world. Really? How? Because the did their goddamned jobs? Yea. Let's pat them on the back. Good job fellas. Way to have foresight. I've got a suggestion, the government is only funded for a few months longer; how about all you clowns start working on a budget we can all agree on now?

They say Obama manipulates the media in this country more than any other president. Sounds like a good way to divide the country ... which is kinda what everyone wants.

If you only listen to one side of the story, chances are you are being lied to 50% of the time, at least with the clowns we have in government. It's interesting when you pull up what ever American news source and then look to a foreign country... the stories are a little different and much less one sided.

To show how bipartisan I am, I've got a very simple rule come next election. If you are currently in, you are out. I don't care who you are. We need people that can not only do their jobs, but are proactive about it. Way to run a country always reacting to everything and shoving things down people's throats at the last second.

edit: heh. V-I-O-X-X is filtered. Holy pharma balls.
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Old 18th October 2013, 06:53   #33
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I wonder what happens when you live in a country where getting your medical degree will put you under an easy $300,000 - $400,000; and that's only your medical school costs?
You compete against doctors from Pakistan and India, who are as well trained and paid 10 cents on the buck for their education.

You talk like what the drug companies are doing with regards to saving patents and not lives isn't preposterous. You act like the 3 days pay I spent to go to the doctor for some sleeping pills to treat periodic insomnia isn't preposterous. You act like 6 months pay for 2 nights of observation in a hospital isn't nuts.

About 10 years ago, I took anti-depressants for a while. Shit. $300 a month for anti-depressants. That's fucking depressing.

You could make a drug that would raise the dead, but what good is it if no one can afford it?

Obamacare didn't do a blessed thing to take the scam out. It carefully avoids anything which keeps us from getting ripped off. It even stole $600BN from grannies Medicaid.

The lawyers are happy. Big Pharma is happy. Big medical is happy. This should tell you that you should not be happy.

I want to hear about Karen Ignagni having her ass kicked so bad, you find her in a tub with her toaster.

When medical, pharma and insurance executives start leaving the building via a 4th floor window, we'll know we have it right.

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Old 18th October 2013, 10:14   #34
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One more thought. How about Hillary? One thing about Democrats. They are overconfident. The smoke around Clinton Global Initiative is bad. I don't think Hillary could get elected President.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/14/us...uIyq3bDFckI6/A

What happens to Obamacare with a Republican president? I think Obama is going to be one of the most hated Presidents in history. It might take until a year or two after he's gone.

Obama said we should have universal coverage. 35 million people seem to be pretty good sized "crack" to fall through. This is what Obama calls it when you can't afford medical insurance even with subsidies. "Falling through the cracks" Of course, you will be fined on top of not being covered. I think 35 million remaining uninsured are a chasm and not a crack. A crack is 1%. A chasm is 12%.

One of the most important things is tort reform. Not even a wink at it.

ACA is the exact opposite of what a health care reform bill should look like. It was written by the special interests for the special interests. If it helps anybody, it was an accident.

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We do know why offices put caps on how many medicaid patients they will take, right?
Doctors aren't going to have that right. They probably wouldn't mind if there was any tort reform. Doctors generally hate this law.

Want to see Obamacare die in one working day? Force federal employees to buy insurance the way we are going to have to. Obamacare was so good, government exempted itself. Cheney wouldn't get a million dollar heart out of Obamacare. He wouldn't get a million dollar heart out of medicare either. But he's a government employee, so Blue Cross would spend just about anything.

I think we should start with a plan Congress has to buy.

I am by nature a capitalist. But if the best we can do is embed a corrupt system by forcing everyone to buy overpriced, incompetent medical care from a run-amok cartel, we should have gone single payer.

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Old 18th October 2013, 12:00   #35
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You compete against doctors from Pakistan and India, who are as well trained and paid 10 cents on the buck for their education.
That is actually quite humorous . Actually, a lot of times those foreign medical grads (FMG's) have to repeat a significant portion of their trining. Aditionally, a lot of the times the fmg's are not board certified, which is why they are not associated with hospitals and run their own private practice.

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You talk like what the drug companies are doing with regards to saving patents and not lives isn't preposterous. You act like the 3 days pay I spent to go to the doctor for some sleeping pills to treat periodic insomnia isn't preposterous. You act like 6 months pay for 2 nights of observation in a hospital isn't nuts.
It all nuts. All of it. At the same time, these pharma companies need to get their costs into developing the drug back, they need to pay their staff that developed it for 10 years, and god forbid they try to turn a profit so they can fund the next drug. I dunno what the answer is here. Drug development costs serious money. There is a back story to drug development that many people do not know about (the cost). These people want drugs for free; they still want the same innovation. Again, you can't have it both ways. This stuff costs real money. Your drugs from 20-30 years ago are so damn cheap because the current regulations did not exist back then, so these drugs were grandfathered in.

The hospital costs are absurd too. We wanted affordable healthcare (medicare and medicaid). The government reimburses physicians with this coverage about $25-$60 a patient no matter what is done, no matter how much time is spent. The government forces them to lose money on every single medicare/medicaid patient they see. The resources that medicare/medicade patients take out of the medical system is the same as you and I, their care costs real money. Real money that is above and beyond $60. These physicians have a practice to run, nurses to pay, office staff to pay, overhead, etc. The cost needs to be made up somewhere ... so the buck gets passed to those that can afford it, and suddenly you have a $300 office visit, or an ER stay that costs six months salary.

I'm not saying any of that is "right". All I am saying is stuff costs real money. That money must be made up somewhere. Given the current laws that are in place, this is how it is done.

I don't understand why no one touched tort reform as I have pointed out several times. In my opinion the natural order of things should be to frst drive down the absurd medical costs and then worry about getting people insured. Seems a little more economical to me then adding 30 million new donors to a system that is out of control. Kinda makes me wonder exactly how many pockets we are lining.

As a final note, if you take away the right of a physician reject medicaid, you are going to run them all out of business or they will be forced to see so many patients in one day to make up the cost that they will be able to spend 15 seconds with each. Sounds like the beginning of missing early symptoms, which will eventually drive up medical costs.

This is exactly why the ACA is a load of bullox as you pointed out. Nothing is fixed, people's pockets get lined, and you and I get to pay for it.
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Old 18th October 2013, 12:12   #36
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Aditionally, a lot of the times the fmg's are not board certified, which is why they are not associated with hospitals and run their own private practice.
I like that part. Unfortunately, my Pakistani doctor moved. He'd see me for $65. I liked him bett.er than his triple priced American counterparts. How good of a doctor? How good does he have to be?

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I don't understand why no one touched tort reform as I have pointed out several times.
It's really simple. Malpractice lawyers own the Democratic Party. If you can't sue for a million over a hang nail, life just wouldn't be worth living. You will never get tort reform out of the Democrats. Never. You might consider the slant of a law professor being President.

All this bullshit about Obama being an "African American" Dude is a 100% suit.
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Old 18th October 2013, 17:50   #37
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All this bullshit about Obama being an "African American" Dude is a 100% suit.
What does that mean? He is or isn't what you expect? I know you know better than trying to 'read a book by it's cover'. You don't know Obama, so how can you say what he is? You see his public side, the role that he plays for public consumption (like any politician). As an African American, I know that we as individuals, more often than not, defy the stereotypes placed on us by ourselves and by non-African Americans. This is probably true for every ethnic group.

I did not say Boehner is stupid. I said the GOP tactics were stupid. Boehner has shown he does not possess the intellect and savvy that I've read that Rommel had. I say that because I take into account how long he has been a politician on the national level, the power level he has gained, and the control he is able to exert. On Obama's side, looking at the same things, I have to conclude he has 'a lot more going on where it counts' as far as being a politician. His rise to the top 'job' was one of the fastest in American history.

The first 16 days of this October was a tragedy for America, however you want to rate it. Both sides drew lines in the sand. Nobody won and everybody lost something.

Average Americans vote for (rich people, business, and special interests hire) politicians to think for them and make laws to regulate behavior. We deserve what we get. It is very important to look at (research) and listen to all sides because all sides lie. We need to hear all the lies to have any hope of figuring out where the truth is or at least the least damaging lie (if such a thing is possible).

American politics is a game of 'numbers and nonsense'. The 2 major political parties are 2 sides of the same coin. They take turns playing 'bad cop' and 'good cop'. The only way to have a fighting chance to correctly guess which way particular politicians may go is through their voting records (for, against, and no vote) and not by anything they say. Throw 'all the bums out' and go with all new guys (with no voting records) and it becomes a total crap shoot. It's better to do your homework and support those whose voting record you agree with, imo.

Actors (and those with acting skills) make good politicians. This is not a bad thing. Appearing sincere, when you really are not, is a requirement of the job. On the national level, it's a 'sweet' job. Politicians are human and base most of their decisions on self interest, just like everybody else.

Being born in 1951, I have developed a bias (especially over the last 20 years) that has totally replaced what I was taught and told during the first 18 years of my life. But I still believe America can accomplish almost anything, if most of us pull together for at least a decade (there are many examples). I hope I live long enough to see that kind of compromise and cooperation return.

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Old 19th October 2013, 22:39   #38
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What does that mean?
I mean that Doctor Barack Obama J.D. Harvard Magna Cum Laude, Law Professor Barack Obama has about as much in common with the common man as a Martian. He is an elitist egghead. He plays golf at a country club I parked cars in. His loyalty to the rich, our medical cartel, our legal cartel, our military industrial complex and not you and me is so obvious I am really appalled you didn't notice.



Then we've got middle class Michelle. Victim of feeling uncomfortable sometimes while at Princeton! OMG! Not that! I think everyone who's not driving a Vestron would feel uncomfortable at Princeton. This was her thesis. It made me sigh. Met Barry while they were trying to organize community action getting 6 figures for being lawyers agitating poor people.

You can't be left or right and like 20 Trillion bucks going out the door. This thing needs to find some economy. Our great, great grandkids will be paying our sorry asses off.

This is from a guy who was born the last year of the "baby boom" I'm real sorry kids. My generation and the one before it lived so far beyond our means, you're gonna be eating Mac n' Cheese for most of your life to ever make a dent in paying it off. The change of the United States to a service based economy has failed. You guys can probably try to get some of what we rabbited away by wiping our asses for minimum wage. Rich people will take a nice chunk to make sure you're politically correct.

If I thought Barack Obama was truly involved in a struggle against poverty and iniquity, I would have voted for him. I'm sure he finds it a scintillating subject of conversation while drinking Bud Light and playing golf with other people who can afford $400 for 18 holes.

We got no bankers in jail. ACA is a pork sandwich with extra blubber.

Who was this guy trying to help? It wasn't any African American. Fuck. It wasn't any American I know. My golf costs $12.

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Old 20th October 2013, 16:56   #39
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Who was this guy trying to help? It wasn't any African American. Fuck. It wasn't any American I know. My golf costs $12.
Ok, he doesn't meet your expectations. Too bad. I've lived in Chicago for over 30 years and got to learn about Obama before you did. He doesn't surprise me. I never joined the congregation, but I listened to several of the same sermons he did, given by Rev. Wright, and saw his reactions. I saw how he related to people during his 'social worker' days. When he decided to enter politics, I thought he would never get anywhere given his name. But he picked the 'right' ward and the rest, as they say, is history.

Of course he has Anglo-American friends on the high end (how else could he have become POTUS). There are plenty of rich Afro-Americans, too (and not just in sports and entertainment). There are also plenty of us in the middle class doing just fine. We are not all uneducated/under-educated 'dudes and shorties' running 'round the hood', only interested in sex, drugs, gang banging, hip-hop, and a 'good time'.

America is no longer a 'melting pot' (probably never was). It's a 'salad bowl' and diversity is a good thing.

Michelle's parents were mid to lower middle class and wanted more for their children. That's what all Americans want. My parents lived at the poverty line for most of their lives, but made me understand the importance of education and that having money is not the only goal in life. My good grades (and M.L. King's murder) allowed me to earn a full scholarship to M.I.T. The jobs (doing what I like doing) my education qualified me for has allowed me to live better (economically) than my parents ever did.

I believe Obama is sincere in wanting to rebuild the middle class and maintain or expand the 'safety net' for the poor. The rich can (and will) stay rich and more will join them. Until a lot more people start working again, the rich need to 'kick in' a little more. As a group, they are paying most of the country's bills and providing the real opportunities for growth anyway. They just need to step off the sidelines and take some risks (some will lose a little, but they will still have plenty and may even make most of what they lose back). All the Government (all 3 parts) can do is try to 'keep the ball rolling'.

Obama is able to understand and relate to both ends, and the middle, in ways you and I will never understand. I know poverty and the 'hood' and thru my opportunities via M.I.T, I got to 'rub elbows' with some at the high end (economic and political). I can relate to some of what I think he feels and the conflicts I know he deals with every day. Sure, I would like to see something major done for my ethnic group (and maybe something will happen), but I know that is highly unlikely. Any real progress must begin at the family level anyway.

Obama knows his full ten year plan will never be implemented. The US Presidency is not a dictatorship. He only had 4 years and another 4 was not certain. He chose to try 1 major thing for the whole country instead of nipping around the edges (after helping pull the country back from a 1920's style depression while dealing with 2 major wars being fought on the credit card). The ACA is the start, not the end (it will evolve). Win, lose, or draw, I applaud him for it.

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Old 21st October 2013, 00:12   #40
rockouthippie
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Obama is able to understand and relate to both ends
Both ends of leftist and elitist?

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after helping pull the country back from a 1920's style depression
I would consider that fairly you'd have to say Obama has screwed up the economy in favor of other issues. He tossed a couple trillion at the banks and didn't make any jobs. They bought commodities futures instead. So everybody's grocery bill went up including people who can least afford it.

Every month, we make 200,000 less jobs than we made 18 year old kids. It's an army that will kick our ass if we don't fix that.
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