Old 8th November 2010, 20:01   #1
Batter Pudding
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The disadvantages of the Apple trend

Ah... the "valid reason for ALAC" is because Apple wants to control the world... they start with the music and work upwards. iTunes users convert their CDs to ALAC, and then find they are permanently locked into that iTunes world. All makes commercial sense in the "Church of Jobs".

I manage my music as you suggest - store ripped CDs as FLAC on the server, but convert to MP3 when moving to my portable MP3 player. Another bonus feature of Winamp (and one of many features missing from iTunes because the Apple Store doesn't want you ripping CDs, it wants you to buy another copy of the same track from the store)

Edit > Koopa: Thread was split from TS forum and moved to GD forum
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Old 8th November 2010, 20:11   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batter Pudding View Post
Ah... the "valid reason for ALAC" is because Apple wants to control the world... they start with the music and work upwards. iTunes users convert their CDs to ALAC, and then find they are permanently locked into that iTunes world. All makes commercial sense in the "Church of Jobs".
That's the truth. Apple makes proprietary stuff, Apple forces you to use iTunes, Apple controlls, which apps you can install on your iPhone and Ipod, Apple tries it's best to disable support for their hardware in other programs etc.

But people don't care about these things, Apple products are more popular than ever before.

Same can be said about Google too btw, they even have permission to delete local saved apps from your phone...

As long as people don't change their mind, things will stay like that. And who, except for some guys would swim voluntary against the swarm? It's a trend, most people follow each trend, doesn't matter, what price they have to pay - if it's the price of loosing the power for own decisions or the price of the expensive hardware it doesn't matter.

I'm happy with my mp3 player, not labeled as Apple, but works just fine with any program and on any operating system.
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Old 8th November 2010, 20:24   #3
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(We should take the Apple and Google rants to another thread really... before the Moderator's 3000th post is accused of taking this subject off-topic. I 100% agree with you though...)

It has been painful for me to have a discussion here that talks up a good feature of iTunes though... when the rest of it is a bloated, nasty mess of a lock-in to a online store.
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Old 8th November 2010, 20:31   #4
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Your wish has been granted, if you want another title for it, just lemme know.

No worries, already made my 3k posting in Winamp Discussion forum.

Edit And just to make it clear, I don't hate the company, I don't care about them, but i disagree with their politics.

Just look at the Video Lan player issue, VLC was a great player for Apple devices, but must be removed, because Apple's system doesn't allow free sharing of the program. This is a violation of the GPL.
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Old 8th November 2010, 20:39   #5
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apple = all that is evil.

this is old news.

i gotta agree though, it really is weird how they manage to make any sales, i guess it just goes to show one really is born every second these days, or maybe it's something in the jobs juice.

oh and just for the record, buying an iphone because it's the only decent non-late model one available, it is comparable to waking up in a bed you've never seen before in you're life.

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Old 8th November 2010, 20:43   #6
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I have just left a link behind to invite people this way if they want to carry on this OT rant. So any "Church Of Jobs" worshippers can join us so we can laugh at them properly for their weird beliefs
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Old 8th November 2010, 21:18   #7
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There is nothing weird about how they make sales. That is the point - they are damn GOOD at the marketing and sales. Look how they had all those iPhone 3 users queueing up to buy the iPhone 4 on the day of release. Barely 24 hours earlier those people would have told you their phone was the best thing since sliced bread - and there they are worshipping at the altar of a new device and casting hundreds of pounds worth of working kit aside.

They make pretty items that do most of the stuff home users need... and can market them as a style item hitting those fashion addicts in the pocket.

A good example of how Apple bite their own users - look at today's news of suddenly, without any warning, they have dropped their server line as of January next year!!

Apple have never been one for keeping backward compatible kit working. They know they don't need to as their users will blindly follow whatever Steve Jobs tells them to do. Amazing... especially if you are old enough to remember the 1984 adverts they used to pump out about Microsoft in the 90s!! At least I can still run my ancient software and hardware on this new Win7 PC in front of my. Apple don't believe in backward compatibility - and just expect you to buy all your software again. A clever move for the cashflow of Apple and their partners.


Note: I have written programs for both Apple and Microsoft systems. Mainly back in 1995-2000. Those Microsoft programs still work on a modern PC. The Apple ones have no chance as that was old Motorola CPUs and MacOS System 7 (I think that was it... braincells rusty). That ability to just abandon the past saves Apple a lot of hassle... and passes the problems to their customers. Very clever.
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Old 9th November 2010, 00:07   #8
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Price, backward compatibility are my only real beefs with Apple

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Old 9th November 2010, 02:41   #9
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Apple owns my soul and I am okay with that!

Other issue aside, yes apple maintains very tight control over their hardware. At the same time, if you buy something from them it just works, period. Their software is much the same.

Sure, they cost a bit, but they just work. Ever think you are paying for a piece of mind, or buying your time back? Ever since I went back to macs I can't tell you how much time I have saved because I don't have to rebuild my
Computer anymore and all my hardware (printers, various i devices, pioneer cd decks and mixers just work.
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Old 9th November 2010, 05:50   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koopa View Post
VLC was a great player for Apple devices
i hate to nitpick, but..

isn't part of the point of VLC that it's a platform independent media player?

on how it's weird they make any sales, to re-iterate:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batter Pudding View Post
There is nothing weird about how they make sales
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batter Pudding View Post
blindly follow
getting people to blindly follow isn't so easy these days without a priest's garb.

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Old 10th November 2010, 02:10   #11
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At our one-to-one MacBook school district, we have just as many problems as a school full of Windows laptops. We have crashes called "kernel panic" and loads of "home sync errors" that render the computer useless until restart. Worse yet, Mac's software doesn't seem to believe in having an autosave or autorecover feature like Microsoft's software, so you can lose a boatload if you're not extremely careful about saving every minute or two. This is even true with their latest iLife and iWork suites that come together with the latest Snow Leopard operating system.

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Old 10th November 2010, 03:19   #12
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Macs have used a feature called auto recover for many years now. You have to
enable this manually, but this saves the actual program state when it crashes. All you need to do to recover the said file is launch the program and up comes your file. See: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/po...010140729.aspx

As for the kernel panic and sync errors; I have never seen those on any of my
Macs. I've got no clue about the home sync error, but it sounds network related.

I know what a kernel panic error is from my Linux days. Generally a hardware issue. You know how to zap a macs p-ram? I bet this tales care of it. See this for pram related issues: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1379

Let me know if anyone this helps you and your school.

I spent my college years providing mac tech support to the entire campus. I really would like to help if at all possible.
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Old 10th November 2010, 07:52   #13
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Wow i didn't know the formats of play files is changed over to the Apple side permently!!
Apple is popular more than ever for the simple reason 10 years ago there were 10 known virises for Apple & here today those 10 known virises are all thats been there.PC does stupid things as Gates could sell snow in the arctic & make money.He doesn't care if the "New" doesn't even work just peole are stupid enough to keep comming back as the sales generated are more than the cost of paying a few geek hacks to get the programing proper after the 1st sales factor.Kinda like buying a new car that runs rough has next to no brakes & a stuck accelerater pedal.So if folks are killed there always more idiots lined up for more!
Case in point>this computer was a budget thing for me just so I could go online & feed the sterio with the files so it does that job OK.But being a next to be extinct computer as underpowered unit (xp 2004) when it 1st went online the updates never seemed to end & after 3 days microsoft dumped in 88 updates & theres another one waiting to go in !
Its like buying a new pick up 1/2 ton & the manufactor wants you to load in 1 ton of upgrades to make it viable..Either Jobs makes up new virises to get back at gates for "Stealing Windows Idea" or the Norton/kapurski people make up the worms/trjans etc just to sell more software...Thatswhy Apple has its name & offers units that can't be hacked nor a security program even needed.
If mocrosoft actually put the head on the right way round then maybe they could close all the loop holes in their programming for good......But that doesn't sell software does it!
I'm sure there some is Ideas that seem bad such as a permerenant switch of the music but if your NOT going back to the hack system then WHY worry about the old hack systems...You've already been down that endlees road of no where so why worry about going back.My next computer will be a Mac as the other traders I trade songs with use Mac & swear by it! You can't compare chevy to Ferrari & ferrari doesn't care about the GM Bionic Boat Anchors !
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Old 10th November 2010, 10:38   #14
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@swingdjted: Well, a mac is still a computer. Basically same parts inside as a PC. So kids can abuse that hardware just as well as a PC.

@Shackstrain: Apple have just as many security problems, have you never used their updates then? Was with a client the other day who had just replaced the OS on her Mac with the latest thing... and then needed to download close to a Gigabyte of updates. The only reason you are not getting hundreds like for XP is because Steve Jobs will not allow an OS from 2001 to still be around. He would have expected the user to buy a new machine or a new OS upgrade by now.

The only reason you don't hear much about the viruses that ARE out there for the mac is because a virus writer is going to target the bigger market share that the PC holds.

Your theories about the Security companies writing the viruses drip with paranoia - I get to deal with client PCs on a regular basis and see the infections for real. Usually picked up via websites offering something for nothing (stolen cracks of photoshop, free music, free pr0n, etc). There is a lot of money to be made in bot networks handing out fake anti-virus and the like.

Comparing Apple and General PC makers is unfair. You should compare Apple and Sony at the same price levels. Once you are comparing on price, you will find good quality machines. This is another major difference in Apple - they control everything and reduce the choice of supply. Look at what has happened to those companies who tried to sell PC Boxes with various flavours of Apple OS on - they get sued out of existence. (You mentioned the "budget PC" that you have XP on... an option that is not in the Apple product line as Steve refuses to cut corners that low. A good idea by the man as it keeps the quality image high and people are clearly happy to pay.)

Jobs being a control freak has kept the OS and hardware closely linked. Whereas Microsoft let you install their OS on any combination of hardware you like, as well as being able to still install those ancient software programs. This, of course, supplies more of a headache for MS as they need to keep that backward compatibility still going as well as supporting a much wider level of hardware.

(I'll have to return to your confused posting later today as I need to head out... I'll get you some references to the modern Mac viruses which are getting nastier.)

The main point is - both religions have problems, and they solve them in different ways. It is just funny how it stirs up such rabid fanboi-ism. Me, I can see the merits in both sides. Some good kit knocked out by Apple aimed as specific tasks, but the MIcrosoft options will always give you more choice - good and bad.
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Old 10th November 2010, 12:46   #15
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@Shackstrain: Please don't think I am bashing Apple. I don't mean to come over that way. I am one of those rare people who can see the advantages of both camps. I also get to see the dis-information and spin that comes from both camps. Some of that spin is in your post.

There ARE viruses appearing for the Mac. And you need to start getting careful. Scams and Viruses on the PC are often aimed at people looking to get something for nothing. Idiots who use Limewire for example. (It is very noticeable how many of the infected PCs I see also have that thing installed....)

As Apple's market share continues to grow, then the viruses will start appearing in more numbers. Have a look at a few example news stories from this year:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06...curity_update/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10...bface_for_mac/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09...y_for_mac_osx/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/01/mac_spyware/

As can be seen by that list, Mac Users are being targeted in the same way as Windows users. They are going to sting those people who want something for nothing. And it is going to be so much easier because of the "My Apple can't get a virus" attitude of the users.


And you do realise the comical history of the Virus? Back in 1982 the first "virus" was released. And which computer operating system was ahead of the game even back then? Who was "first to market" with a virus? Comically enough - the Apple II.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07...ilver_jubilee/
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Old 12th November 2010, 05:00   #16
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Well, I agree; the seemless integration of the Mac software is nice for people who don't like to deal with formatting and file types. There really is a list of valid reasons for certain people to prefer Macs.

@ fc*uk ~ I didn't mean Microsoft Office - I love MS office (especially since they got rid of the "office assistant" annoyance (the paper clip guy)). MS office is great with their on-by-default autosave.

"Pages", "Numbers", and "Keynote" (Mac's office programs, word processing, spreadsheet, and slideshow presentation respectfully) don't have that feature, at least not to my knowledge. Our most well-behaved students have shouted profanity when this became a problem. Their proprietary formats can't be opened in PC programs, so they always have to export to other formats with time-wasting extra steps when dealing with other entities who all use PCs. Our school doesn't seem to want to pay the high price for MS Office for Mac, so that option is out. Luckily, the kids are learning to save often though, and how to export to non-proprietary formats.

The home-sync error is indeed networking. Plus our Mac servers suck. That might not be Mac's fault though - might be that they're aren't designed for this much volume and we may not have bought something strong enough. Synchronizing is nowhere near what it is on Linux or MS Server machines, and they're nowhere near as reliable as the rather simple and archaic windows server we had prior to this new system. This is something I can occasionally post screenshots of if you want to help, since every once in a while, I can recover the computer without needing to restart, but most times it's a complete freeze where not even mouse movement will happen.

The kernel panic is something that I can't really get a true screenshot of, because it requires a restart every time before any other action can be taken. I might be able to do a work around - take a picture of the screen with a separate camera next time I see it happen.

One of the biggest problems with this involves the online classes students are taking. They get into a timed exam where the time window starts when they click something along the lines of "begin test", and if their computer crashes, they have to rush to restart or if it won't restart functionally, grab another computer, re-login and continue on the other computer. Sometimes, the re-login doesn't work though, since the test sees another computer already having started the exam. Then the student has to (after I cool them down from being rather nervous about it) explain the situation to the instructor and beg for special accommodations, and I often have to be part of the verification process, so that the instructor knows the kid isn't lying. It's quite a pain in the ass really.

I realize this is probably just as possible on a PC; I just wanted to show that this can happen on either side of the road.

We do have a contract through Apple to troubleshoot/fix these sorts of problems, but so far, the problems still persist.

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Old 12th November 2010, 06:41   #17
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0mx5ERj1eI

relevant or not, you decide

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Old 13th November 2010, 17:05   #18
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booyah!

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Old 14th November 2010, 15:30   #19
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^

Ted, I won't even try with that awful iWork suite. The package simply sucks and it is typical of Apple to leave something so stupid such as an auto save/recover feature. What's really funny is the iOS versions of these programs have an auto save every 5 min. Again, another typical Apple blunder.

So the school does not want to spend the cash on MS Office? I guess I can understand that. However, the teachers and students alike need something better than that iWork suite. What about OpenOffice? I believe you commented about this in another thread somewhere around here. Can't you get enough teachers/students together to at least let the school allow people who are willing to test drive OpenOffice? After a bit, hopefully the powers that be will see it really is better for everyone and allow people to switch.

Again, with the kernel panic errors try to clear your pram. Kernel panic is caused by a hardware/software complication. On a mac this is generally the result of the pram somehow becoming corrupt and passing a bad instruction set to something. About 95% of the time this problem can be solved by wiping out the pram on boot, the mac will then notice that it is missing and rewrite it back.
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Old 14th November 2010, 15:49   #20
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I'll try for Open Office. Students are blocked from installing their own stuff, but sometimes when we see that a lot of people want something that is relatively harmless, we'll put it on everyone's image. We've done this with Skype and Firefox (and probably a couple other things that I'm not aware of). I think if I make a convincing enough argument, they'll put Open Office on too (does that have autosave?).

I'll pass the information on regarding the kernel panic. Sounds like a pretty simple fix.

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Old 15th November 2010, 07:24   #21
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I'll try for Open Office.
Hell, if I had that when I was in high school, I would have been tickled pink. Open office is about as functional as software that costs big money. Professionally, if I need to bat out a letter or use a spreadsheet, OO is my pal.

As far as I know, it contains no patented tech, so deployment in school should not be a problem. Some other open source software is eventually encumbered.
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